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I dont' think I think like I once thought, I think...

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  • winterwinter El Paso, TXPosts: 2,276Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Volkon
    Originally posted by Vannor

    Checking if mobs are too low is certainly gone.

    The rest isn't neccessarily a positive. Instead of looking for ! we are looking for a heart, poi, vista, skill point or an orange circle. Either way, we are still looking for an icon. Gathering nodes are far less valuable than in other MMOs, in terms of trading.. because there are so many of resources going around.. it's all relative. So, getting a gathering node in GW2 isn't as good of a thing as it is in other games.

    Maybe it's because I'm not at the selling stage for materials yet that nodes are personally more valuable to me. I have, so far, two characters that I need (yes, need dammit!) to get to 400 on all crafting trades, so I'm hoarding my mats right now. Looking for vistas has been a blast... yesterday in Lornar's something-or-other I was down to one last vista, and there it was, high up on a rock way over a large cavern with a gryphon nest in it. Took awhile, but I finally found the path leading up that way. On the way, I see two guys fighting a champion Ettin. It was perfectly natural for me to join in and help them out. As it went, the bugger was tough... took quite a while to work him down. Not only that, he had a couple Veterans that would periodically spawn to help him out. What a blast. The three of us were fighting like we have been doing so for ages. We'd all target the same Veteran, burn it down, burn the other then back to the champion. Big wind ups were being interrupted, people were moving, dodging, finally we got him down and got to the chest behind him. (Did get a nice new pair of pants... ) Fortunately I remembered to finally get that vista that I went up there for in the first place...

     

    Edit: Are there any other games, any games at all, where a similar encounter is even possible? Forget WoW, can't happen. Tera? TSW? SWTOR? Never played them, no idea. GW2 is the first for me where anything remotely like this can happen.

      Volkon you have still yet to explain how looking for a heart is majorly different then looking for a ! . No Really you use it as one of your major points as to how GW2 is so much different, and your not the first  GW2 fan that seems to be pulling that "Oh My GOD ITS SO GREAT Because theres hearts instead of !" out of your hat. SO pleaase do explain The 2 seem to work exactly the same from my experience.

  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member
    Originally posted by winter
      Volkon you have still yet to explain how looking for a heart is majorly different then looking for a ! . No Really you use it as one of your major points as to how GW2 is so much different, and your not the first  GW2 fan that seems to be pulling that "Oh My GOD ITS SO GREAT Because theres hearts instead of !" out of your hat. SO pleaase do explain The 2 seem to work exactly the same from my experience.

     Heh... didn't think I needed to... anyone following the game knows that hearts were added after the fact simply because people were so used to quest hubs that they needed somewhere to go to initially get something to do. GW2 was originally built without hearts, and the number of hearts reduces as you advance with none in Orr whatsoever.

    So yes, the hearts themselves replace the static "!" dudes with a more active delivery. Instead of walking up to a guy, clicking on him, maybe reading his text wall to find out what to do (unless you have quest helper, of course), doing it and returning to him you enter an area, see the variety of tasks you need for renown, do the tasks, get money in the mail and often unique items available from the vendor. In addition, this goes along with the concept of seeing people and how you react to it in GW2 compared to other MMOs. Even for hearts, seeing people is good, not bad. No fighting over the same mobs while you try to meet your quota. No loot-denial because you didn't hit it first. No lack of credit for killing mobs before you "read the quest text" from "!" guy. It's the delivery as well as the cooperative vs. competitive PvE differences that have you approaching them differently.

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

  • jayheld90jayheld90 Canal Winchester, OHPosts: 1,763Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Four0Six
    Originally posted by Kuppa
    Originally posted by Myrdynn

    you do wait for an eternity for a customer service response, I remember when AAA companies had customer service, it was good times

     

    lol, this is such a myth. No big company has ever had great customer service. Its a matter of perspective, you get a good customer service exp its great! you get a bad one its horrilbe and everyone is getting screwed.

     It is not a myth.

    FunCom, has solved 3 tickets of mine in TSW. ALl within 10 minutes of generating the ticket.

    same here, though it was many more than three. they solved it without giving me some canned response. a gm would show up next to me and talk to me. reminded me of the days of eq1.

    image

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by jayheld90
    Originally posted by Four0Six
    Originally posted by Kuppa
    Originally posted by Myrdynn

    you do wait for an eternity for a customer service response, I remember when AAA companies had customer service, it was good times

     

    lol, this is such a myth. No big company has ever had great customer service. Its a matter of perspective, you get a good customer service exp its great! you get a bad one its horrilbe and everyone is getting screwed.

     It is not a myth.

    FunCom, has solved 3 tickets of mine in TSW. ALl within 10 minutes of generating the ticket.

    same here, though it was many more than three. they solved it without giving me some canned response. a gm would show up next to me and talk to me. reminded me of the days of eq1.

    really got to think of volume of players.. how many does TSW have? have many does GW2 have? I remember having several issues in swtor and just got their canned droid response.. but at the time it was a week from launch game had a TON of people playing.. more people playing more issues will arise and the longer it will take for customer support to get to you.. not really hard concept

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • lilHealalilHeala ZwollePosts: 513Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Myrdynn

    you do wait for an eternity for a customer service response, I remember when AAA companies had customer service, it was good times

     

    Funny thing is that on the forums of every major MMO there's threads about the customer service being horrible or non-existent, especially shortly after launch when the ticket volumes are massive so you have to prioritize so that can go wrong. Most recent examples in mind are all the threads about worst customer service ever on boards of Rift and SW:TOR but I can list up any MMO I've ever played which are all the major ones since 1999.

    Positive change with Gw2 is that you can bump your ticket if you didn't receive support on specific severe account issues within a specific timeframe. Many other companies warn to ban you if you log 2x the same ticket or try to bump it in another way or even close the ticket so you get back to the end of the queue.

     

  • rutaqrutaq somerville, MAPosts: 428Member Uncommon

     Hold the phone there Skippy. Look at my other post regarding the Ettin encounter... a Champion and two Veterans. That entire fifteen minute fight was a constant "Oh Crap" moment. We didn't get through it without a couple revives, nor did we have a chance had we only decided to "press a couple keys". I run a mesmer, Greatsword and Scepter/Pistol at the moment. I was flipping weapons to take advantage of the various clone/phantasms I had available, using various interrupt to stop the huge wind up "Hulk Smash" attacks, etc. I haven't played Tera, so can't compare that one (for example) as far as combat, but without a real trinity in place this was a non-stop moving active fight the likes of which nothing based on the archaic WoW-style of combat could ever hope to offer.

     

    Wait a minute... you've never actually played this game, have you? That would explain a lot. Let's put it this way... if the three of us tried to fight like it was WoW, we'd have died quickly. If we weren't already thinking differently we would not have succeeded.

     

    As an aside, I'm pretty sure I was 2 levels below them... but not positive.

    It's Mark, not Skippy.

    I have been playing as much as I can stomach over the last week.   I haven't hit 30 yet but I'm close and so maybe I haven't gotten to the challenge yet.  I am happy you and your friends found a cool encounter to struggle with but that doesn't forgive a system intrinsically designed to lower the bar of effort / attention /challenge.  

    What you did was almost breaking the tenets of GW2, you went into a fight without being auto level balanced, you didn't dash  20' away and wait for the Ettin to get bored and leash back, you didn't kite the Ettin around while spamming spikes and pets at him,  you didn't wait for a couple more random players to walk by so you could overpower the encounter, you didn't play the game by it's basic design and at the end you go the medicore rewards...

    Working hard to force challenge into a game where is was removed by design seems counter intuitive especially when the rewards are trivialized and at the end everyone has the same pile of cookies even if they didn't have to work to get them.

     

    I'm sorry if I come off as gruff,  I am just disapointed that a genre that started out with such ideals ( uo/ac/eq rallos) has sold itself out to placate the Masses and disiengeniously rewards and exclaims Mediocrity.    No Epic adventure, just forgettable time wasting :(

     

     

     

     

  • rungardrungard st. john''s, NFPosts: 1,035Member
    clearly you havent run a dungeon yet.
  • KuinnKuinn MestaPosts: 2,093Member
    Originally posted by Volkon

    No, I'm pretty sure of it. My whole set of "MMO perceptions" is changing. I don't play them like I used to anymore. Look at downlevelling... sure, I'll check levels to make sure the mobs aren't too high for me, but low? I don't even notice anymore when I'm downlevelled to be honest. It no longer really crosses my mind that I should be one-shotting this mob that's n levels below me.

    I've completely forgotten to look for guys with the "!" over their heads. (The only reason I'm thinking of it now is because I'm thinking of what I no longer think of.)

    I know I no longer race towards mining nodes anymore knowing they'll be there until I get there no matter who's around, and on that note I no longer avoid people I'm not "partied" with... the whole "tagging" of mobs is pretty well forgotten.

     

    There's other stuff as well I'm sure I'll think of later, but I was wondering how other folks perceptions of MMOs is (or isn't) changing now that they've a week or so of GW2 under their belts? (If you don't play at all... you wouldn't understand. Hush.)

     

    This very much! If there's one thing I'd like to see in every themepark mmorpg it's any kind of mechanics to keep zones relevant and having content in them even after "out leveling" them, GW2 does that very nicely!

     

    I really like the adventurous feeling of the game also since the absence of !'s and ?'s :)

  • BeackerBeacker Newbury, MAPosts: 420Member
    Originally posted by Four0Six
    Originally posted by Kuppa
    Originally posted by Myrdynn

    you do wait for an eternity for a customer service response, I remember when AAA companies had customer service, it was good times

     

    lol, this is such a myth. No big company has ever had great customer service. Its a matter of perspective, you get a good customer service exp its great! you get a bad one its horrilbe and everyone is getting screwed.

     It is not a myth.

    FunCom, has solved 3 tickets of mine in TSW. ALl within 10 minutes of generating the ticket.

    That is because that game barely sold any copies and people are contantly leaving. The game is failing and with not many people left I am sure customer support is pretty easy to handle because not many tickets are coming in!

  • CastillleCastillle KhobarPosts: 2,703Member Uncommon
    Idk about you guys but there are certain places where you are downlevelled to a higher level than the enemy but there are places where you get downlevelled and the enemies are 2 or so levels higher than you.  Like the Bandit place in the kese something map o.o

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  • MeowheadMeowhead New Carlisle, INPosts: 3,716Member
    Originally posted by rutaq

     

     

    Working hard to force challenge into a game where is was removed by design seems counter intuitive especially when the rewards are trivialized and at the end everyone has the same pile of cookies even if they didn't have to work to get them.

    I'm sorry if I come off as gruff,  I am just disapointed that a genre that started out with such ideals ( uo/ac/eq rallos) has sold itself out to placate the Masses and disiengeniously rewards and exclaims Mediocrity.    No Epic adventure, just forgettable time wasting :(

     The game specifically gives better drop rates if you fight enemies higher levels than you.  This equates to more money, better crafting materials, AND more fun.

    Keep fighting tougher monsters!  Also, stop doing ranged attacks.  It's slow and inefficient.  Melee is where all the awesome people are at.  Melee everything, at least 4-5 levels ahead of you.

    Good luck.  Game can get pretty challenging. :D

    Also, like people said, obviously you're not doing dungeons.

  • KuinnKuinn MestaPosts: 2,093Member
    Originally posted by winter

      Volkon you have still yet to explain how looking for a heart is majorly different then looking for a ! . No Really you use it as one of your major points as to how GW2 is so much different, and your not the first  GW2 fan that seems to be pulling that "Oh My GOD ITS SO GREAT Because theres hearts instead of !" out of your hat. SO pleaase do explain The 2 seem to work exactly the same from my experience.

     

    At least I've felt in every standard questing style mmorpg that I have to complete all the quests in a hub and then move to the next one and repeat that untill I'm max level, and basically can forget about the world after that since there's nothing else unless I run after crafting nodes.

     

    GW2 does things a little differently. First of all, I dont feel anymore like I have to complete all the hearts, they feel more like separate tasks that I can do and not so much specific quests that I've been ordered to. I move more freely and where I want instead of running after a very specific quest path. If I liked some other area better than my current one, I can go back there and still level and do stuff because of the scaling, maybe just hunt events and ignore the hearts if I feel like it.

     

    The experience of the game is very different to me at least in GW2 compared to other themepark mmo's because these reasons, which really changes the way how I can play the game.

  • NevulusNevulus Miami Beach, FLPosts: 1,288Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by rutaq

     

    For me everything you called out is a dumbing down of MMOs and removing any amount of challenge they had left.

     

    GW2 has built the perfect MMO DayCare center.

    1)  You downlevel to a point right above the scale of the Monsters so the combat is the same old guaranteed success  if you press a couple keys...  No  " Oh Crap" moments,  No  " Damn what am I going to do now",  just a simple auto target, auto attack, auto "win"  :(

    2)  The game is pandering in the sheer amount of reminders , flashy icons, glowing arrows and UI hand holding.  Gone are the lame  ?  icons and instead they are replaced with pop ups, obnoxious noise reminders and a handful of new geometric shapes that somehow equate to Exploration when you are lead around by the nose following your super majic DPS radar ??? 

    3)  Gathering is so trivialized that the node is a vending machine that gives out a snacks to every adventure that stops.  No scarcity, No hoarding, No discovery of the secret ore nodes that you quickly snatch up to hide them from others, no work or challenge at all ,  just cookies for everyone !!!

    4)  Getting credit for doing the work is gone, instead you have some weird welfare system, where if you happen to be standing next to someone killing a monster and even sneeze on them you get credit.   No need to try just  wait a minute longer and you can zerg through anything and even win if you die !

     

    Basically GW2 is the next evolution in Adventure's DayCare.   Streamlined "Easy" auto game play,  no noticeable penalty for losing, no challenge, no risk just lots of reward, " Everyone is special and the same",  "You are all the bestest Heroes ever"   :)

     

    As an adult I am embarrassed to play such a trival, vapid, childish MMO.    I can only image what the MMO Masses have in mind for other games..

     

    [mod edit]

    I never thought about it like that. You do have a point  =/

     

    I guess I will wait a couple of months and see how it goes, but simply put wow, I honestly never thought about it like that. Unfortunately this plea will fall upon blind eyes.

  • vesuviasvesuvias No Where, WAPosts: 147Member
    Originally posted by rutaq
    Originally posted by Volkon

    No, I'm pretty sure of it. My whole set of "MMO perceptions" is changing. I don't play them like I used to anymore. Look at downlevelling... sure, I'll check levels to make sure the mobs aren't too high for me, but low? I don't even notice anymore when I'm downlevelled to be honest. It no longer really crosses my mind that I should be one-shotting this mob that's n levels below me.

    I've completely forgotten to look for guys with the "!" over their heads. (The only reason I'm thinking of it now is because I'm thinking of what I no longer think of.)

    I know I no longer race towards mining nodes anymore knowing they'll be there until I get there no matter who's around, and on that note I no longer avoid people I'm not "partied" with... the whole "tagging" of mobs is pretty well forgotten.

     

    There's other stuff as well I'm sure I'll think of later, but I was wondering how other folks perceptions of MMOs is (or isn't) changing now that they've a week or so of GW2 under their belts? (If you don't play at all... you wouldn't understand. Hush.)

     


    For me everything you called out is a dumbing down of MMOs and removing any amount of challenge they had left.

     

    GW2 has built the perfect MMO DayCare center.

    1)  You downlevel to a point right above the scale of the Monsters so the combat is the same old guaranteed success  if you press a couple keys...  No  " Oh Crap" moments,  No  " Damn what am I going to do now",  just a simple auto target, auto attack, auto "win"  :(

    2)  The game is pandering in the sheer amount of reminders , flashy icons, glowing arrows and UI hand holding.  Gone are the lame  ?  icons and instead they are replaced with pop ups, obnoxious noise reminders and a handful of new geometric shapes that somehow equate to Exploration when you are lead around by the nose following your super majic DPS radar ??? 

    3)  Gathering is so trivialized that the node is a vending machine that gives out a snacks to every adventure that stops.  No scarcity, No hoarding, No discovery of the secret ore nodes that you quickly snatch up to hide them from others, no work or challenge at all ,  just cookies for everyone !!!

    4)  Getting credit for doing the work is gone, instead you have some weird welfare system, where if you happen to be standing next to someone killing a monster and even sneeze on them you get credit.   No need to try just  wait a minute longer and you can zerg through anything and even win if you die !

     

    Basically GW2 is the next evolution in Adventure's DayCare.   Streamlined "Easy" auto game play,  no noticeable penalty for losing, no challenge, no risk just lots of reward, " Everyone is special and the same",  "You are all the bestest Heroes ever"   :)

     

    As an adult I am embarrassed to play such a trival, vapid, childish MMO.   

    [mod edit]

    Please there was nothing "Hard" about the old school games you so lovingly worship except finding the enough time in the day for the insane time requirements they had.  There is nothing "challenging" about repeating the same content over and over agian to create the illusion of accomplishment because all of the rational human beings would never subject themselves to the torture and senselessness of the grind they require. It's a Beavis and Butthead competition to see who can hold thier hands in the fry cooker the longest. Congradulations you win, you get the Magic Purple Sword of literal Life Stealing and guess what you won't get those 500 hours back. I hope you enjoyed yourself.  It's vapid pointless competition of who can endure the mindnumbing repitition of a task only fit for a 50 lines of code bot, the longest.

     

    You want a game that allows you to be the best? The Best at what? Wasting time in a video game. You want to stroke your epeen in front of an audience. Well too bad. To be the top 1% you need the other 99%. And guess what, no one wants to play that type of game anymore. They never did actually. McQuaid got the formula wrong and the genre has suffered for years because of it. That style of play somehow attracted some the most anti-social people in world and gave them others just like themselves to play "along side" with. Most people play video games for fun not to fullfill some empty desire for imaginary domination or to feed thier own instatiable ego. 

     

    You want Competitive PvE, so you can buy into the illusion that you actually accomplished something and you think the genre is in dire straights with all this "pandering to low". Allow me to rebut. You sir are the issue. You have always been the issue. This genre would have normallized years ago if it hadn't been for you die hard old-schoolers using you're copious amounts of free time to fill message board forums with the most self serveing anti-social me first me bestest game design drivel. It took a developer like arenanet to finally understand that you and you're kind serve only yourselves and never the community. You don't want to "play" with others you only want other to watch you play.

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,854Member Uncommon

    Not caring about my level or path because the content is all relevant.

     

    I had the same experience at level 14 in Wayfarer Foothills with my level 5 cousin as I did with my level 36 friend when I was 23 in the Charr starting area.  As long as your above the content you can go anywhere you want and have the content relevant.

     

    I came across a contested villiage where about 20-25 Charr had been killed by a group of about 6 human seperatists lead by a veteran.  I was by myself so as the seperatists walked a path around the villiage I was just out of aggro range reviving the fallen soldiers.  After about 10-15 were up I was caught and and the Charr NPCs attacked the seperatists.  Many of them dropped again and almost myself but we managed to kill them all.  Got an event reward and a thank you dialog from one of the NPCs so I was off.  I couldn't tell you what my level was then but I assume it had to have been 10 or less as it was not far from the Black Citadel.

  • PurgatusPurgatus San Diego, CAPosts: 342Member
    Originally posted by rutaq
    Originally posted by Volkon

    *snip*

     


    For me everything you called out is a dumbing down of MMOs and removing any amount of challenge they had left.

     

    GW2 has built the perfect MMO DayCare center.

    1)  You downlevel to a point right above the scale of the Monsters so the combat is the same old guaranteed success  if you press a couple keys...  No  " Oh Crap" moments,  No  " Damn what am I going to do now",  just a simple auto target, auto attack, auto "win"  :(

    2)  The game is pandering in the sheer amount of reminders , flashy icons, glowing arrows and UI hand holding.  Gone are the lame  ?  icons and instead they are replaced with pop ups, obnoxious noise reminders and a handful of new geometric shapes that somehow equate to Exploration when you are lead around by the nose following your super majic DPS radar ??? 

    3)  Gathering is so trivialized that the node is a vending machine that gives out a snacks to every adventure that stops.  No scarcity, No hoarding, No discovery of the secret ore nodes that you quickly snatch up to hide them from others, no work or challenge at all ,  just cookies for everyone !!!

    4)  Getting credit for doing the work is gone, instead you have some weird welfare system, where if you happen to be standing next to someone killing a monster and even sneeze on them you get credit.   No need to try just  wait a minute longer and you can zerg through anything and even win if you die !

     

    Basically GW2 is the next evolution in Adventure's DayCare.   Streamlined "Easy" auto game play,  no noticeable penalty for losing, no challenge, no risk just lots of reward, " Everyone is special and the same",  "You are all the bestest Heroes ever"   :)

     

    As an adult I am embarrassed to play such a trival, vapid, childish MMO.    I can only image what the MMO Masses have in mind for other games..

     

    [mod edit]

    This is just sad.

     

    1) Downleveling is far more complicated than that. Sometimes you are higher, sometimes you are lower. Even as a level 35 downleveled to a 5, in most events, you are still challenged, while still having an advantage for being a higher level. Move to far to either side and you will have more problems.

    2) At most 50% of the cool spots are marked with any sort of icon. If you actually explore you will be rewarded. Its actually pretty awesome.

    3) Why, on gods green earth, should GATHERING ROCKS be such a monumental task. So you can wait till someone engages an enemy and grab a node while he's occupied? Is it so wrong to make sure its enjpyed by more than just you?

    4) This is the dumbest thing I've heard all day. I can count on one hand the times I was rewarded and I didnt know why.

     

    I have no idea what game you've been playing, but GW2 is tons of fun.

  • rutaqrutaq somerville, MAPosts: 428Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by vesuvias

    At the end the new Monopoly is way better than the old school Monopoly...   We all win because competition and challenge are evil and never ever ever Fun.  

    We are all Special !!!   Nobody should ever be allowed to work harder, try more,because being better is just mean.

    Please there was nothing "Hard" about the old school games you so lovingly worship except finding the enough time in the day for the insane time requirements they had.  There is nothing "challenging" about repeating the same content over and over agian to create the illusion of accomplishment because all of the rational human beings would never subject themselves to the torture and senselessness of the grind they require. It's a Beavis and Butthead competition to see who can hold thier hands in the fry cooker the longest. Congradulations you win, you get the Magic Purple Sword of literal Life Stealing and guess what you won't get those 500 hours back. I hope you enjoyed yourself.  It's vapid pointless competition of who can endure the mindnumbing repitition of a task only fit for a 50 lines of code bot, the longest.

     

    You want a game that allows you to be the best? The Best at what? Wasting time in a video game. You want to stroke your epeen in front of an audience. Well too bad. To be the top 1% you need the other 99%. And guess what, no one wants to play that type of game anymore. They never did actually. McQuaid got the formula wrong and the genre has suffered for years because of it. That style of play somehow attracted some the most anti-social people in world and gave them others just like themselves to play "along side" with. Most people play video games for fun not to fullfill some empty desire for imaginary domination or to feed thier own instatiable ego. 

     

    You want Competitive PvE, so you can buy into the illusion that you actually accomplished something and you think the genre is in dire straights with all this "pandering to low". Allow me to rebut. You sir are the issue. You have always been the issue. This genre would have normallized years ago if it hadn't been for you die hard old-schoolers using you're copious amounts of free time to fill message board forums with the most self serveing anti-social me first me bestest game design drivel. It took a developer like arenanet to finally understand that you and you're kind serve only yourselves and never the community. You don't want to "play" with others you only want other to watch you play.

     

    Ok...   I like a good debate , heck maybe I'll learn something...

     

    Lets start with nothing "Hard" about the old school games premiss:

       Just the simple fact that it did require a time investment to reach the game goals is one thing of many that was "Hard".

      The player interdependence through grouping was "Hard" to manage.

      The Guild politics trying to coordinate RAIDs was very "Hard".

      The direct penalty to your character's progression made it "Hard" to recover from mistakes so you would be challenged to try "Hard"er and not make as many.

     

    I don't care about a game that allows ME to be "THE BEST"

    I know my gaming limitations and  don't have some inflated self image or ego.  I am not striving to be  "THE BEST",  just  "THE BEST" that  I can be.   "THE BEST" can be a bit subjective but in games it is generally the top of a scale that we judge ourselves against.   The scale is most often a measure of our ability to cope with the challenges set before us.

    Why is it bad for a game to challenge me or any other player for that matter ?    There are many variations on the definition for "GAME" but do you argue that this one is incorrect ?  

     

     GAME,  A form of play or sport, esp. a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.

     

    I do want Competitive PvE....

      Enjoying competition in game whether it be PvE, PvP, Checkers, Monopoly, Poker, heck even Tic-Tac-Toe is actually quite normal and is one of the most fundamental elements throughout gaming history, but liking competition doesn't make me antisocial or self centered.

    Being an "old School gamer"...  I LOVE to play with other people,  I LOVE grouping with other people,  I LOVE helping other people. I LOVE being part of a hard working Team,  I LOVE challenging things to overcome, However.. I DON'T LOVE when the game is designed to devalue any of the previous items to make itself "EASIER".

     

     

     

  • coretex666coretex666 PraguePosts: 1,934Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kuppa
    Originally posted by Myrdynn

    you do wait for an eternity for a customer service response, I remember when AAA companies had customer service, it was good times

     

    lol, this is such a myth. No big company has ever had great customer service. Its a matter of perspective, you get a good customer service exp its great! you get a bad one its horrilbe and everyone is getting screwed.

    May I suggest that you try to play some game made by Blizzard? You may eventually need to contact their customer support which would probably change your opinion on this.

    Depends on your standards of course.

    Waiting for L2 EU Classic

  • rutaqrutaq somerville, MAPosts: 428Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by rutaq
    Originally posted by Volkon

    No, I'm pretty sure of it. My whole set of "MMO perceptions" is changing. I don't play them like I used to anymore. Look at downlevelling... sure, I'll check levels to make sure the mobs aren't too high for me, but low? I don't even notice anymore when I'm downlevelled to be honest. It no longer really crosses my mind that I should be one-shotting this mob that's n levels below me.

    I've completely forgotten to look for guys with the "!" over their heads. (The only reason I'm thinking of it now is because I'm thinking of what I no longer think of.)

    I know I no longer race towards mining nodes anymore knowing they'll be there until I get there no matter who's around, and on that note I no longer avoid people I'm not "partied" with... the whole "tagging" of mobs is pretty well forgotten.

     

    There's other stuff as well I'm sure I'll think of later, but I was wondering how other folks perceptions of MMOs is (or isn't) changing now that they've a week or so of GW2 under their belts? (If you don't play at all... you wouldn't understand. Hush.)

     


    For me everything you called out is a dumbing down of MMOs and removing any amount of challenge they had left.

     

    GW2 has built the perfect MMO DayCare center.

    1)  You downlevel to a point right above the scale of the Monsters so the combat is the same old guaranteed success  if you press a couple keys...  No  " Oh Crap" moments,  No  " Damn what am I going to do now",  just a simple auto target, auto attack, auto "win"  :(

    2)  The game is pandering in the sheer amount of reminders , flashy icons, glowing arrows and UI hand holding.  Gone are the lame  ?  icons and instead they are replaced with pop ups, obnoxious noise reminders and a handful of new geometric shapes that somehow equate to Exploration when you are lead around by the nose following your super majic DPS radar ??? 

    3)  Gathering is so trivialized that the node is a vending machine that gives out a snacks to every adventure that stops.  No scarcity, No hoarding, No discovery of the secret ore nodes that you quickly snatch up to hide them from others, no work or challenge at all ,  just cookies for everyone !!!

    4)  Getting credit for doing the work is gone, instead you have some weird welfare system, where if you happen to be standing next to someone killing a monster and even sneeze on them you get credit.   No need to try just  wait a minute longer and you can zerg through anything and even win if you die !

     

    Basically GW2 is the next evolution in Adventure's DayCare.   Streamlined "Easy" auto game play,  no noticeable penalty for losing, no challenge, no risk just lots of reward, " Everyone is special and the same",  "You are all the bestest Heroes ever"   :)

     

    As an adult I am embarrassed to play such a trival, vapid, childish MMO.    I can only image what the MMO Masses have in mind for other games..

     

    [mod edit]

     

      Umm..  I  was trying to not break any forums rules and enter the ongoing debat about the GW2 merits or lack thereof.

     

    Was my Monopoly analogy a violation ?

     

    Anyways I will try to be more reserved to make the [MODS] job easier...

     

      Regards,

     

    -Mark...

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,214Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by rutaq

    Ok...   I like a good debate , heck maybe I'll learn something...

    Lets start with nothing "Hard" about the old school games....

       Just the simple fact that it did require a time investment to reach the game goals is one thing of many that was "Hard".

      The player interdependence through grouping was "Hard" to manage.

      The Guild politics trying to coordinate RAIDs was very "Hard".

      The direct penalty to your character's progression made it "Hard" to recover from mistakes so you would be challenged to try "Hard"er and not make as many.

     

    Except none of those "challenges" are game related.  Challenge means increased difficulty with regards to the norm.

    Needing to spend more time isn't a challenge.  It simply requires more time.  The idea that grouping or raiding was hard to manage doesn't mean the grouping or raiding content was some sort of extraordinary challenge.  Even xp penalties weren't an increased challenge, but another time sink.  The content wasn't harder due to any of those factors or rather I would say increased challenge in the "meta" game doesn't equate to the game itself actually being a challenge.

    It was all an illusion of challenge meant to provide a false sense of accomplishment.

    Next... I want a game that allows me to be "THE BEST"

    I my gaming limitations and  don't have some inflated self image or ego.  I am not striving to be  "THE BEST",  just  "THE BEST" that  I can be.   "THE BEST" can be a bit subjective but in games it is generally the top of a scale that we judge ourselves against.   The scale is most often a measure of our ability to cope with the challenges set before us.

    Why is it bad for a game to challenge me or any other player for that matter ?    There are many variations on the definition for "GAME" but do you argue that this one is incorrect ?  

     GAME,  A form of play or sport, esp. a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.

    Again this is all an illusion.  Self validation through a set of virtual hurdles is a lie.  I can understand why you're negative and bitter about the current market but I'm glad it's absent.

    I want Competitive PvE....

      Enjoying competition in game whether it be PvE, PvP, Checkers, Monopoly, Poker, heck even Tic-Tac-Toe is actually quite normal and is one of the most fundamental elements throughout gaming history, but liking competition doesn't make me antisocial or self centered.

    Being an "old School gamer"...  I LOVE to play with other people,  I LOVE grouping with other people,  I LOVE helping other people. I LOVE being part of a hard working Team,  I LOVE challenging things to overcome, However.. I DON'T LOVE when the game is designed to devalue any of the previous items to make itself "EASIER".

    Again another lie.  If the game doesn't have open world, non privately instanced pvp then there wasn't real pve competition.  Really? Racing to nodes is competitive pve?  No pvp in the pve means no real competition.  Because in real competition it wasn't could you get to the node or tag the mob or boss first.  It was who could keep and hold on to that without getting killed by the person who wanted it more.

  • rutaqrutaq somerville, MAPosts: 428Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Except none of those "challenges" are game related.  Challenge means increased difficulty with regards to the norm.

    Needing to spend more time isn't a challenge.  It simply requires more time.  The idea that grouping or raiding was hard to manage doesn't mean the grouping or raiding content was some sort of extraordinary challenge.  Even xp penalties weren't an increased challenge, but another time sink.  The content wasn't harder due to any of those factors or rather I would say increased challenge in the "meta" game doesn't equate to the game itself actually being a challenge.

    It was all an illusion of challenge meant to provide a false sense of accomplishment.

     

         I guess I am not following you on this one.  Simple as standard Trinity group or massive 60 mans RAIDs the ability to coordinate with others at any level was more challenging that content designed for a solo player.

        Content designed to require key player interdependence and cooperation is by it's design is more Challenging to master.   You may not like, want or respect the challenge but that doesn't  negate the fact that it exists.    

    Again this is all an illusion.  Self validation through a set of virtual hurdles is a lie.  I can understand why you're negative and bitter about the current market but I'm glad it's absent.

    Sorry you lost me on this one too...  Success in a Virtual world by jumping over Virtual hurdles can't be valued ?   Maybe it's a generational things, but I can remember several "self "satisfying games of Street Fighter and nights of 2 on 2 Hockey on my Nintendo.  

    Actually taking a step back I am more confused about your statement since the majority of Multiplayer video games are built around , high scores, records, ladders, etc...

    Again another lie.  If the game doesn't have open world, non privately instanced pvp then there wasn't real pve competition.  Really? Racing to nodes is competitive pve?  No pvp in the pve means no real competition.  Because in real competition it wasn't could you get to the node or tag the mob or boss first.  It was who could keep and hold on to that without getting killed by the person who wanted it more.

    This one I get.   I should have extended my statement to clarify that I want PVP competition with my PvE.   I want an open world where competing is everywhere.  Compete to Harvest,   Compete over challenging PvE content,  Compete directly against other players.   I think the controls and separation of competition waters things down and eventually causes imbalances.

     

     

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,818Member Uncommon

    PvP by proxy PvE is silly.

    It is like playing monopoly but the game doesn't end, so while one person goes to bed the other can stay there playing alone.

    One player might have been playing monopoly for years, when buying states was possible and houses were half the price and the rule set was completely differen.

    PvP by proxy PvE is the most carebear system ever.

     

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • SlampigSlampig Chantilly, VAPosts: 2,376Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kuppa
    Originally posted by Myrdynn

    you do wait for an eternity for a customer service response, I remember when AAA companies had customer service, it was good times

     

    lol, this is such a myth. No big company has ever had great customer service. Its a matter of perspective, you get a good customer service exp its great! you get a bad one its horrilbe and everyone is getting screwed.

    Is that a fact? I have had great CS from SOE and Blizzard to name a few. Apple has always had really good support as well. These are all from my experience, too bad you have had such bad help in the past, it is just goofey to make that general of a statement when you know it isn't the case for everyone. As far as ArenaNet goes, they wouldn't have to have this stellar support if people we not having so many problems, Myrdynn makes total sense.

    That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,854Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by rutaq
    I LOVE to play with other people,  I LOVE grouping with other people,  I LOVE helping other people. I LOVE being part of a hard working Team,  I LOVE challenging things to overcome, However.. I DON'T LOVE when the game is designed to devalue any of the previous items to make itself "EASIER".

     

    I think you would really like GW2 then.  To date it is the most I have been involved with the people around me whether in a group or not.  As easy as you think the content is now when 20 people pop up to join in an event, once the spread evens out it will be perfect IMO.  Contested areas along with events with only a handful of people around will make it more of a challenge.

  • terrantterrant Virginia Beach, VAPosts: 1,683Member
    Originally posted by rutaq

     

    Ok...   I like a good debate , heck maybe I'll learn something...

     

    Lets start with nothing "Hard" about the old school games premiss:

       Just the simple fact that it did require a time investment to reach the game goals is one thing of many that was "Hard".

    With respect, time is not difficulty. It's just time. If it's something you can get just by throwing hours at it, I don't consider it hard at all. Tedious at best. And I did my share of 24 hour spawn camps in EQ. 

      The player interdependence through grouping was "Hard" to manage.

      The Guild politics trying to coordinate RAIDs was very "Hard".

      The direct penalty to your character's progression made it "Hard" to recover from mistakes so you would be challenged to try "Hard"er and not make as many.

    I won't argue that the heavy forced grouping of games like EQ did in fact encourage teamwork. And I feel that GW2 is trying to do the same. The problem is people jsut zerg the content and brag about how they all died 30 times to kill one boss, instad of how they stopped, built a strategy, and kicked its ass in one go.

     

    Old non-instance raid bosses were friggin annoying. Guilds fighting over the spawn, some moron trains a few added mobs in and hours of work gets wasted...hard isn't the same thing as stupid.

     

    I will agree stronger death penalties added a level of challenge to the game. I haven't forgotten de-levelling. I wouldn't be opposed to that sort of thign returning...well...not de-levelling. But something that forced you to stop, think, and not die.

     

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