While I don't see GW2 sinking as fast as SW:TOR (no sub with GW2), it will struggle in the same areas that so many of the previous modern MMORPGs have.
GW2 is a really well put together game. It lifted all the things that worked in WOW, Warhammer, Rift, etc., and put a spit shine polish on the product. Well done ArenaNET
With that said....you're STILL running kill quests. You're STILL running escort quests. You're STILL running collect quests. You're STILL getting chained along with quests, that serve as the primary vehicle improve your situation in the game.
For those that haven't played this kind of game for the last 7 years.....it's an amazing game, and should hold your interest for quite a while. However, if you've been on the Linear progression MMO ride since the beginning of WOW.......the shiney wears off rather quick. The repetitiveness & same tired progression model smacks you in the face after only playing for a few days.
yeah, a quest is a quest no matter how you put it. but instead of being boring like most MMOs do it, they have found an inovative way to make the same kill 20 creatures, bring this person here, collect 20 badges into an eventfull event.
not only that. they have made it so you AUTOMATICALLY group up for those "Quests" so you are not soloing your game.
the proof that they are in your group, blow your horn (call of nature?) and see that EVERYONE around you doing the same quest will get the buff.
so Anet has found 1) a way to make your Quests less tedious and more enjoyable 2) grouping with players that feels like you are in a group working with people, but at the same time not forcing you to interact with them (yeah figure out that logic but its true fact) and 3) a vast polished world with very good replayability in the PvP and the PvE world.
You have not played warhammer and rift, War have something called ¨open party system¨, and Anet found a way to let the players ¨BOT¨on the DE, or just make some macro and afk, thats fun.
While I don't see GW2 sinking as fast as SW:TOR (no sub with GW2), it will struggle in the same areas that so many of the previous modern MMORPGs have.
GW2 is a really well put together game. It lifted all the things that worked in WOW, Warhammer, Rift, etc., and put a spit shine polish on the product. Well done ArenaNET
With that said....you're STILL running kill quests. You're STILL running escort quests. You're STILL running collect quests. You're STILL getting chained along with quests, that serve as the primary vehicle improve your situation in the game.
For those that haven't played this kind of game for the last 7 years.....it's an amazing game, and should hold your interest for quite a while. However, if you've been on the Linear progression MMO ride since the beginning of WOW.......the shiney wears off rather quick. The repetitiveness & same tired progression model smacks you in the face after only playing for a few days.
I'd just like to point out that Frodo and company went out on a quest, there were some collecting involved, a few escorts, some rescues and not to mention a whole heap of killing.
Seriously every story breaks down into some form of basic tasks.
While I don't see GW2 sinking as fast as SW:TOR (no sub with GW2), it will struggle in the same areas that so many of the previous modern MMORPGs have.
GW2 is a really well put together game. It lifted all the things that worked in WOW, Warhammer, Rift, etc., and put a spit shine polish on the product. Well done ArenaNET
With that said....you're STILL running kill quests. You're STILL running escort quests. You're STILL running collect quests. You're STILL getting chained along with quests, that serve as the primary vehicle improve your situation in the game.
For those that haven't played this kind of game for the last 7 years.....it's an amazing game, and should hold your interest for quite a while. However, if you've been on the Linear progression MMO ride since the beginning of WOW.......the shiney wears off rather quick. The repetitiveness & same tired progression model smacks you in the face after only playing for a few days.
yeah, a quest is a quest no matter how you put it. but instead of being boring like most MMOs do it, they have found an inovative way to make the same kill 20 creatures, bring this person here, collect 20 badges into an eventfull event.
not only that. they have made it so you AUTOMATICALLY group up for those "Quests" so you are not soloing your game.
the proof that they are in your group, blow your horn (call of nature?) and see that EVERYONE around you doing the same quest will get the buff.
so Anet has found 1) a way to make your Quests less tedious and more enjoyable 2) grouping with players that feels like you are in a group working with people, but at the same time not forcing you to interact with them (yeah figure out that logic but its true fact) and 3) a vast polished world with very good replayability in the PvP and the PvE world.
You have not played warhammer and rift, War have something called ¨open party system¨, and Anet found a way to let the players ¨BOT¨on the DE, or just make some macro and afk, thats fun.
They found a way to let players bot on the DE? Really? Or are they banning people who bot? Might I suggest that you, as a GW2 hater, learn more before you make up things? What is fun is reading your many posts throwing shit at the wall and hoping it sticks. The more you post the less informed you look and the more clear your status as hater is evident.
While I don't see GW2 sinking as fast as SW:TOR (no sub with GW2), it will struggle in the same areas that so many of the previous modern MMORPGs have.
GW2 is a really well put together game. It lifted all the things that worked in WOW, Warhammer, Rift, etc., and put a spit shine polish on the product. Well done ArenaNET
With that said....you're STILL running kill quests. You're STILL running escort quests. You're STILL running collect quests. You're STILL getting chained along with quests, that serve as the primary vehicle improve your situation in the game.
For those that haven't played this kind of game for the last 7 years.....it's an amazing game, and should hold your interest for quite a while. However, if you've been on the Linear progression MMO ride since the beginning of WOW.......the shiney wears off rather quick. The repetitiveness & same tired progression model smacks you in the face after only playing for a few days.
yeah, a quest is a quest no matter how you put it. but instead of being boring like most MMOs do it, they have found an inovative way to make the same kill 20 creatures, bring this person here, collect 20 badges into an eventfull event.
not only that. they have made it so you AUTOMATICALLY group up for those "Quests" so you are not soloing your game.
the proof that they are in your group, blow your horn (call of nature?) and see that EVERYONE around you doing the same quest will get the buff.
so Anet has found 1) a way to make your Quests less tedious and more enjoyable 2) grouping with players that feels like you are in a group working with people, but at the same time not forcing you to interact with them (yeah figure out that logic but its true fact) and 3) a vast polished world with very good replayability in the PvP and the PvE world.
I've noticed that the folks around you tend to share buffs and target the same monsters you're fighting...but thats about the extent of it. There are no coordinated activities. Given the auto targeting system in this game.....all I had to do in one of these DE group quests is spam my main & secondary attack button....and make sure I was with the heard, so that I wouldn't be singled out.
When I think of fun grouping in a MMO....I think of a coordinated team effort (player 1 CCs a monster while player 2 off tanks another, while player 3 main tanks the group of remaining mosters, while player 4 & 5 apply damage) What I've seen so far in GW2 DE PQ / Rift events is just a chaotic mass buff / mass burst damage everything in sight. It's streamlined grouping into more of a convienence thing than an opprotunity to work as a strategic unit.
Again, for folks that haven't been playing these type of linear progression MMOs for the last 7 years, the auto grouping feature of GW2 is very nice....and allows more players to complete more quests in a shorter amount of time. But for folks that have done this (in one shape or form) a thousand times, all the streamlining & added convienence just boils down the questing experience even faster to the realization that your just chasing the carrot.
I haven't experienced everything there is to do in the game yet....but from my early observation, it feels the same to me as when I played Rift for the first time (after playing WOW for several years)
While I don't see GW2 sinking as fast as SW:TOR (no sub with GW2), it will struggle in the same areas that so many of the previous modern MMORPGs have.
GW2 is a really well put together game. It lifted all the things that worked in WOW, Warhammer, Rift, etc., and put a spit shine polish on the product. Well done ArenaNET
With that said....you're STILL running kill quests. You're STILL running escort quests. You're STILL running collect quests. You're STILL getting chained along with quests, that serve as the primary vehicle improve your situation in the game.
For those that haven't played this kind of game for the last 7 years.....it's an amazing game, and should hold your interest for quite a while. However, if you've been on the Linear progression MMO ride since the beginning of WOW.......the shiney wears off rather quick. The repetitiveness & same tired progression model smacks you in the face after only playing for a few days.
I'd just like to point out that Frodo and company went out on a quest, there were some collecting involved, a few escorts, some rescues and not to mention a whole heap of killing.
Seriously every story breaks down into some form of basic tasks.
And how did LOTR MMO work out? heh
Seriously though, a quest is a goal to work towards.....and should mean something to you. Frodo & company embarked on an epic quest that took a long time to complete, and had consequences of epic porportions.
Modern MMO quests are miniscule and offer a few pieces of copper or a piece of trivial gear.....and you can do dozens of them in one sitting.
The idea of questing is not the problem....the burn out is! When I played Ultima Online, there really weren't any quests. You made your own personal goal / quest. Mine was to own a house. It took me months of getting my characters abilities up to a point that I could actually start turning a profit from hunting....and then after I saved long enough, I could afford my first casa. Then my quest changed....I wanted to decorate it with all kinds of rare items.
When your quest is personal, and takes a long time to complete.....all the things you do in between seem less like your being lead around with a carrot, and more like a meaningful set of tasks to achieve some ends that you put a lot of value into.
While I don't see GW2 sinking as fast as SW:TOR (no sub with GW2), it will struggle in the same areas that so many of the previous modern MMORPGs have.
GW2 is a really well put together game. It lifted all the things that worked in WOW, Warhammer, Rift, etc., and put a spit shine polish on the product. Well done ArenaNET
With that said....you're STILL running kill quests. You're STILL running escort quests. You're STILL running collect quests. You're STILL getting chained along with quests, that serve as the primary vehicle improve your situation in the game.
For those that haven't played this kind of game for the last 7 years.....it's an amazing game, and should hold your interest for quite a while. However, if you've been on the Linear progression MMO ride since the beginning of WOW.......the shiney wears off rather quick. The repetitiveness & same tired progression model smacks you in the face after only playing for a few days.
yeah, a quest is a quest no matter how you put it. but instead of being boring like most MMOs do it, they have found an inovative way to make the same kill 20 creatures, bring this person here, collect 20 badges into an eventfull event.
not only that. they have made it so you AUTOMATICALLY group up for those "Quests" so you are not soloing your game.
the proof that they are in your group, blow your horn (call of nature?) and see that EVERYONE around you doing the same quest will get the buff.
so Anet has found 1) a way to make your Quests less tedious and more enjoyable 2) grouping with players that feels like you are in a group working with people, but at the same time not forcing you to interact with them (yeah figure out that logic but its true fact) and 3) a vast polished world with very good replayability in the PvP and the PvE world.
I've noticed that the folks around you tend to share buffs and target the same monsters you're fighting...but thats about the extent of it. There are no coordinated activities. Given the auto targeting system in this game.....all I had to do in one of these DE group quests is spam my main & secondary attack button....and make sure I was with the heard, so that I wouldn't be singled out.
So you were basically a parasite? Every class has some support ability, buffs, conditions or debuffs. Using them helps the whole group. At the very least a player can revive others. Yet you who are complaining about a lack of coordination, was of no benefit to the group and was just there to suck up xp and karma?
While I don't see GW2 sinking as fast as SW:TOR (no sub with GW2), it will struggle in the same areas that so many of the previous modern MMORPGs have.
GW2 is a really well put together game. It lifted all the things that worked in WOW, Warhammer, Rift, etc., and put a spit shine polish on the product. Well done ArenaNET
With that said....you're STILL running kill quests. You're STILL running escort quests. You're STILL running collect quests. You're STILL getting chained along with quests, that serve as the primary vehicle improve your situation in the game.
For those that haven't played this kind of game for the last 7 years.....it's an amazing game, and should hold your interest for quite a while. However, if you've been on the Linear progression MMO ride since the beginning of WOW.......the shiney wears off rather quick. The repetitiveness & same tired progression model smacks you in the face after only playing for a few days.
yeah, a quest is a quest no matter how you put it. but instead of being boring like most MMOs do it, they have found an inovative way to make the same kill 20 creatures, bring this person here, collect 20 badges into an eventfull event.
not only that. they have made it so you AUTOMATICALLY group up for those "Quests" so you are not soloing your game.
the proof that they are in your group, blow your horn (call of nature?) and see that EVERYONE around you doing the same quest will get the buff.
so Anet has found 1) a way to make your Quests less tedious and more enjoyable 2) grouping with players that feels like you are in a group working with people, but at the same time not forcing you to interact with them (yeah figure out that logic but its true fact) and 3) a vast polished world with very good replayability in the PvP and the PvE world.
I've noticed that the folks around you tend to share buffs and target the same monsters you're fighting...but thats about the extent of it. There are no coordinated activities. Given the auto targeting system in this game.....all I had to do in one of these DE group quests is spam my main & secondary attack button....and make sure I was with the heard, so that I wouldn't be singled out.
So you were basically a parasite? Every class has some support ability, buffs, conditions or debuffs. Using them helps the whole group. At the very least a player can revive others. Yet you who are complaining about a lack of coordination, was of no benefit to the group and was just there to suck up xp and karma?
Take it down a few notches champ lol
In the particular instance i talked about, there were so many people working on the DE that I barely had time to get in 1 or 2 shots on a monster before it was burned down. Which is exactly my point......all the damage was overkill. The tactics required by the group working on the DE was essently spam attack abilities.
Will the rosy eyed fans soon realize that Guild Wars 2 is nothing more than the latest iteration of the standard themepark model, as was SWTOR? Will the servers begin to show the lack of players resulting in server merges? Will GW2 become old news as the next "latest iteration of the standard themepark model " sets a release date and starts the cycle all over?
YEPPERS!
You can count on it. Over and over again........... I like to think "Woot! No sub fee!" However, sub fees are soon to be a thing of the past. Only a Panda would pay a sub fee ...........
Originally posted by gieger808 GW2 will only have the pvp crowd in less than six months. It doesn't have the pve needed to hold the majority of serious pve'ers. Great game, having a blast, but it will fall to being just a casual 2nd game to play while on update day for a mmorpg with a more well developed endgame.
could you define that? what does someone have to do to be consider a "serious" pve'er
I believe what he means is there is no Gear progression, there is not a lot of dungeons and no raid content, and no DE's are not very much fun. The main quest story line is pretty damn limited and the heart system of quests is boring. People were like the quest system in GW2 is awesome you don't have the same boring quest hubs. Uhm you go to a heart and then have to kill x things or gather x things with no story line to back it up, questing in GW2 is very weak.
Lol.
You guys really need to be spoon fed don't you? I wonder what would have happened had anet never placed the hearts in game. Which I truly wish it hadn't.
While I don't see GW2 sinking as fast as SW:TOR (no sub with GW2), it will struggle in the same areas that so many of the previous modern MMORPGs have.
GW2 is a really well put together game. It lifted all the things that worked in WOW, Warhammer, Rift, etc., and put a spit shine polish on the product. Well done ArenaNET
With that said....you're STILL running kill quests. You're STILL running escort quests. You're STILL running collect quests. You're STILL getting chained along with quests, that serve as the primary vehicle improve your situation in the game.
For those that haven't played this kind of game for the last 7 years.....it's an amazing game, and should hold your interest for quite a while. However, if you've been on the Linear progression MMO ride since the beginning of WOW.......the shiney wears off rather quick. The repetitiveness & same tired progression model smacks you in the face after only playing for a few days.
I'd just like to point out that Frodo and company went out on a quest, there were some collecting involved, a few escorts, some rescues and not to mention a whole heap of killing.
Seriously every story breaks down into some form of basic tasks.
And how did LOTR MMO work out? heh
Seriously though, a quest is a goal to work towards.....and should mean something to you. Frodo & company embarked on an epic quest that took a long time to complete, and had consequences of epic porportions.
Modern MMO quests are miniscule and offer a few pieces of copper or a piece of trivial gear.....and you can do dozens of them in one sitting.
The idea of questing is not the problem....the burn out is! When I played Ultima Online, there really weren't any quests. You made your own personal goal / quest. Mine was to own a house. It took me months of getting my characters abilities up to a point that I could actually start turning a profit from hunting....and then after I saved long enough, I could afford my first casa. Then my quest changed....I wanted to decorate it with all kinds of rare items.
When your quest is personal, and takes a long time to complete.....all the things you do in between seem less like your being lead around with a carrot, and more like a meaningful set of tasks to achieve some ends that you put a lot of value into.
Just my opinion anyways...
Then you're looking for a sandbox. You know GW2 is going to be a themepark, so why complain? Do you go to EVE and complain about a lack of crafted storyline?
Each is different and targets different groups. While I admire what EVE and AA are doing/trying to do, those are not games I will ever play because they're not for me.
Edit: Also, what made Frodo's quest epic and the DE chains in GW2 not? Which part about what I said that they had to collect, escort, kill things is incorrect? According to your standards, Frodo's quest is just the same thing.
Will the rosy eyed fans soon realize that Guild Wars 2 is nothing more than the latest iteration of the standard themepark model, as was SWTOR? Will the servers begin to show the lack of players resulting in server merges? Will GW2 become old news as the next "latest iteration of the standard themepark model " sets a release date and starts the cycle all over?
YEPPERS!
You can count on it. Over and over again........... I like to think "Woot! No sub fee!" However, sub fees are soon to be a thing of the past. Only a Panda would pay a sub fee ...........
~Hairysun
I disagree. GW2 is a themepark but plays completely differently than SWTOR. That is a very important point. Without going through all of the changes, the major one that is obvious is you can EXPLORE GW2. You cant do that with SWTOR. Its a corridor, quest hub-based game. The major difference is the way SWTOR plays is very similiar to EQ2 which is very similar to Vanguard which is very similiar to Rift. Down to the hotbar and tab targetting. Playing GW2 does not evoke memories of any of those games based on the action (yes tab targetted) combat. Calling them the same just because both are themeparks is too generic to present a valid argument.
I dont know if GW2 will lack a healthy player base. Honestly its very polished well made game that delivered on what it promised. Will the playerbase subside? Of course. The game just launched. I would presume those who rushed to max level, expected it to be 'the one', couldn't get over the lack of trinity, and those who simply disliked the game for personal reason will leave. This will show a definite decline in the base but one that should be expected (for any new game or MMO that launches).
Longevity is another question we cant answer one week+ into launch. To me it will come down to how often content is released as well as the updates ANet may have planned to keep the game fresh. But they no doubt have a solid foundation to easily build from.
The reason there isnt any need to form a physical group is down to the ingenuity of the game , where it recognises buffs and attacks as if the players were physically grouped , thats the beauty of the gameplay.
I felt really alone in SWTOR , i havent in this game from day 1, once you get piling into an event with a group of other players, they become your group.
I didnt feel any more alone in TOR than I have in other MMOs. Could have been that I was playing with friends a lot of the time. But as someone said in another thread, it's easier to play these games with friends going in than having to make friends in the game a lot of times.
Although I like the mob experience DEs give, it doesn't really feel like a group. It feels almost in-between playing with other players and npcs...everything just becomes so chaotic with the overflow of action and lack of chatter amongst people. It's a neat feature, but I'm not sure it's going to be the final solution to the grouping issues prevalent in MMOs these days.
But the grouping/social decline in MMOs as of late I think has more to do with the genre itself going mainstream and being less of a roleplayers' niche than really a design issue.
Still enjoying the game, but I'm sure in several months time there will be a good percentage of the community saying this game was "fail" or it lacked in other ways. It's the over-hyping of these games that really turns the community sour.
I guess the emphasis here is everyone feels something different when playing GW2. For instance, when I experience a DE I feel like it is a group experience. But then again I disliked the grouping mechanic is most other MMOs. Does that make me wrong?
In terms of grouping/social, to me its just a reflection of the times. Grouping was big in older MMOs partly because it was new. It was great to play with someone else who was across the network and not on your couch. Then it became a way to meet people and develop an online community. I feel those days are (unfortunately) past. Grouping today from my experience is about completing content either with friends or because it was developed to be done in a group. What I find interesting is even though the reason for grouping changed. The way we group remained the same.
Where GW2 added value (to me) was the whole concept of not having to group (technically) to group. If I want to run with a stranger to take on some mobs. I dont have to 'select' anything. I just start fighting with that person. Something so simple, but you wonder why it was not ever implemented prior. If I, or the other person doesnt want to 'group' we simply go our separate ways. Done deal. I dont need to 'talk' to someone to group with them. Their actions speak for them. Again nothing to do in the interface.
Now Im aware there is a group mechanic that is closer to what we are used to in the past, but the point is the other option exists for those who enjoy to leverage it... myself included.
While I don't see GW2 sinking as fast as SW:TOR (no sub with GW2), it will struggle in the same areas that so many of the previous modern MMORPGs have.
GW2 is a really well put together game. It lifted all the things that worked in WOW, Warhammer, Rift, etc., and put a spit shine polish on the product. Well done ArenaNET
With that said....you're STILL running kill quests. You're STILL running escort quests. You're STILL running collect quests. You're STILL getting chained along with quests, that serve as the primary vehicle improve your situation in the game.
For those that haven't played this kind of game for the last 7 years.....it's an amazing game, and should hold your interest for quite a while. However, if you've been on the Linear progression MMO ride since the beginning of WOW.......the shiney wears off rather quick. The repetitiveness & same tired progression model smacks you in the face after only playing for a few days.
I'd just like to point out that Frodo and company went out on a quest, there were some collecting involved, a few escorts, some rescues and not to mention a whole heap of killing.
Seriously every story breaks down into some form of basic tasks.
And how did LOTR MMO work out? heh
Seriously though, a quest is a goal to work towards.....and should mean something to you. Frodo & company embarked on an epic quest that took a long time to complete, and had consequences of epic porportions.
Modern MMO quests are miniscule and offer a few pieces of copper or a piece of trivial gear.....and you can do dozens of them in one sitting.
The idea of questing is not the problem....the burn out is! When I played Ultima Online, there really weren't any quests. You made your own personal goal / quest. Mine was to own a house. It took me months of getting my characters abilities up to a point that I could actually start turning a profit from hunting....and then after I saved long enough, I could afford my first casa. Then my quest changed....I wanted to decorate it with all kinds of rare items.
When your quest is personal, and takes a long time to complete.....all the things you do in between seem less like your being lead around with a carrot, and more like a meaningful set of tasks to achieve some ends that you put a lot of value into.
Just my opinion anyways...
How did LOTRO work out? Pretty dam# good if you must ask. They are releasing another expansion next month, this expansion had the most pre-orders since Moria. LOTRO is a very healthy game with one of the best communities and worlds of any MMO out today. So hope that answered your question.
I left SWTOR after 4 weeks even though I had a 3 month sub.
GW2 has a great business model. e.g. I know I will play for a long time but in those moments when I feel like having a break I don't unsub or panic about the cost. I know I will pop back in at some point.
I know a lot of people will do the same so the population will be maintained and that means more cash shop sales and when an expansion comes out, more sales again.
SWTOR just feels way too linear and small to me. Its like a poor single player game trying to be an MMO.
While I don't see GW2 sinking as fast as SW:TOR (no sub with GW2), it will struggle in the same areas that so many of the previous modern MMORPGs have.
GW2 is a really well put together game. It lifted all the things that worked in WOW, Warhammer, Rift, etc., and put a spit shine polish on the product. Well done ArenaNET
With that said....you're STILL running kill quests. You're STILL running escort quests. You're STILL running collect quests. You're STILL getting chained along with quests, that serve as the primary vehicle improve your situation in the game.
For those that haven't played this kind of game for the last 7 years.....it's an amazing game, and should hold your interest for quite a while. However, if you've been on the Linear progression MMO ride since the beginning of WOW.......the shiney wears off rather quick. The repetitiveness & same tired progression model smacks you in the face after only playing for a few days.
I'd just like to point out that Frodo and company went out on a quest, there were some collecting involved, a few escorts, some rescues and not to mention a whole heap of killing.
Seriously every story breaks down into some form of basic tasks.
And how did LOTR MMO work out? heh
Seriously though, a quest is a goal to work towards.....and should mean something to you. Frodo & company embarked on an epic quest that took a long time to complete, and had consequences of epic porportions.
Modern MMO quests are miniscule and offer a few pieces of copper or a piece of trivial gear.....and you can do dozens of them in one sitting.
The idea of questing is not the problem....the burn out is! When I played Ultima Online, there really weren't any quests. You made your own personal goal / quest. Mine was to own a house. It took me months of getting my characters abilities up to a point that I could actually start turning a profit from hunting....and then after I saved long enough, I could afford my first casa. Then my quest changed....I wanted to decorate it with all kinds of rare items.
When your quest is personal, and takes a long time to complete.....all the things you do in between seem less like your being lead around with a carrot, and more like a meaningful set of tasks to achieve some ends that you put a lot of value into.
Just my opinion anyways...
How did LOTRO work out? Pretty dam# good if you must ask.
Haha are you joking?
The biggest IP in any media in THE WORLD, and despite that, they never broke 500k subs. They didn't crash and burn, they never left the runway. They've just coasted along for years. So much so that they had to go FTP just to get some extra cash flow going.
"Same fate as SWTOR" meaning? #2 sub-based MMO? Switching pay models? Surpassing TSW, Aion, and Tera in numbers? Or did you mean intensely hated and downplayed by many mmorpg.com users? Just wondering.
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The biggest IP in any media in THE WORLD, and despite that, they never broke 500k subs. They didn't crash and burn, they never left the runway. They've just coasted along for years. So much so that they had to go FTP just to get some extra cash flow going.
I don't consider it the largest ip out there nor did I see their turn to f2p as a failure. They did better than expected with DDO so of course they reconsidered their venture in LotR. Was it a resounding success? No
Certainly isn't anything remotely like you claim either.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Originally posted by Gaborik Originally posted by RajCaj Originally posted by meari Originally posted by RajCaj While I don't see GW2 sinking as fast as SW:TOR (no sub with GW2), it will struggle in the same areas that so many of the previous modern MMORPGs have.GW2 is a really well put together game. It lifted all the things that worked in WOW, Warhammer, Rift, etc., and put a spit shine polish on the product. Well done ArenaNETWith that said....you're STILL running kill quests. You're STILL running escort quests. You're STILL running collect quests. You're STILL getting chained along with quests, that serve as the primary vehicle improve your situation in the game.For those that haven't played this kind of game for the last 7 years.....it's an amazing game, and should hold your interest for quite a while. However, if you've been on the Linear progression MMO ride since the beginning of WOW.......the shiney wears off rather quick. The repetitiveness & same tired progression model smacks you in the face after only playing for a few days.
I'd just like to point out that Frodo and company went out on a quest, there were some collecting involved, a few escorts, some rescues and not to mention a whole heap of killing.
Seriously every story breaks down into some form of basic tasks.
And how did LOTR MMO work out? heh
Seriously though, a quest is a goal to work towards.....and should mean something to you. Frodo & company embarked on an epic quest that took a long time to complete, and had consequences of epic porportions.
Modern MMO quests are miniscule and offer a few pieces of copper or a piece of trivial gear.....and you can do dozens of them in one sitting.
The idea of questing is not the problem....the burn out is! When I played Ultima Online, there really weren't any quests. You made your own personal goal / quest. Mine was to own a house. It took me months of getting my characters abilities up to a point that I could actually start turning a profit from hunting....and then after I saved long enough, I could afford my first casa. Then my quest changed....I wanted to decorate it with all kinds of rare items.
When your quest is personal, and takes a long time to complete.....all the things you do in between seem less like your being lead around with a carrot, and more like a meaningful set of tasks to achieve some ends that you put a lot of value into.
Just my opinion anyways...
How did LOTRO work out? Pretty dam# good if you must ask.
Haha are you joking?
The biggest IP in any media in THE WORLD, and despite that, they never broke 500k subs. They didn't crash and burn, they never left the runway. They've just coasted along for years. So much so that they had to go FTP just to get some extra cash flow going.
I understand you are trying to make a point a very silly one at that but if your going to quote me or anyone cutting out the part that explaines the part you left clearly shows that person was correct and you were trying to hide something. Nice try buddy EPIC fail by you.
The biggest IP in any media in THE WORLD, and despite that, they never broke 500k subs. They didn't crash and burn, they never left the runway. They've just coasted along for years. So much so that they had to go FTP just to get some extra cash flow going.
I don't consider it the largest ip out there you should, it is the best selling book in the world aside from the Bible, and pre release there were millions hammering the beta sign up page. That number barely even cracked a couple hundred thousand on release day, because by then everyone had seen how much of a WoW clone it was and lost interest. nor did I see their turn to f2p as a failure. You should. DDO went FTP because it was a total failure and had nothing to lose. LotRO went the same route because it hadn't been growing for years. They did better than expected with DDO DDO was the laughing stock of the genre for close to 4 years so of course they reconsidered their venture in LotR. Was it a resounding success? No
Certainly isn't anything remotely like you claim either.
I was involved with LotRO from when it was called Middle Earth Online, until launch. I have never before seen a game that was better in alpha than when released, but Middle Earth Online was a far FAR superior game to LotRO. But, it wasn't mainstream enough, so they changed it to be just like WoW, and lost the vast majority of their fan base in the process. I lived 10 minutes away from Turbine's offices, I saw the radical shift in quality (for the worse) they company went through over the years. It was sad to witness and I'm still upset over what could have been.
You don't take an IP like LotR, hot off the release of 3 record breaking movies... and then not even beat the sub numbers of old dial up games...and then call it a great success.
I was involved with LotRO from when it was called Middle Earth Online, until launch. I have never before seen a game that was better in alpha than when released, but Middle Earth Online was a far FAR superior game to LotRO. But, it wasn't mainstream enough, so they changed it to be just like WoW, and lost the vast majority of their fan base in the process. I lived 10 minutes away from Turbine's offices, I saw the radical shift in quality (for the worse) they company went through over the years. It was sad to witness and I'm still upset over what could have been.
You don't take an IP like LotR, hot off the release of 3 record breaking movies... and then not even beat the sub numbers of old dial up games...and then call it a great success.
I never said it was a great success. What I said was your assertion was ludicrous. Pretty safe to say if things went as bad as you claim it would not still be live let alone coming out with another expansion.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Originally posted by Souldrainer "Same fate as SWTOR" meaning? #2 sub-based MMO?
You mean... merging servers and firing half your staff within 3 months, and not turning a profit?
They merged servers. They fired staff... otherwise, your numbers are WAY off... and BTW, Bioware insists to this day that the game is turning profits. So yeah... hate much?
Error: 37. Signature not found. Please connect to my server for signature access.
The biggest IP in any media in THE WORLD, and despite that, they never broke 500k subs. They didn't crash and burn, they never left the runway. They've just coasted along for years. So much so that they had to go FTP just to get some extra cash flow going.
I don't consider it the largest ip out there you should, it is the best selling book in the world aside from the Bible, and pre release there were millions hammering the beta sign up page. That number barely even cracked a couple hundred thousand on release day, because by then everyone had seen how much of a WoW clone it was and lost interest. nor did I see their turn to f2p as a failure. You should. DDO went FTP because it was a total failure and had nothing to lose. LotRO went the same route because it hadn't been growing for years. They did better than expected with DDO DDO was the laughing stock of the genre for close to 4 years so of course they reconsidered their venture in LotR. Was it a resounding success? No
Certainly isn't anything remotely like you claim either.
I was involved with LotRO from when it was called Middle Earth Online, until launch. I have never before seen a game that was better in alpha than when released, but Middle Earth Online was a far FAR superior game to LotRO. But, it wasn't mainstream enough, so they changed it to be just like WoW, and lost the vast majority of their fan base in the process. I lived 10 minutes away from Turbine's offices, I saw the radical shift in quality (for the worse) they company went through over the years. It was sad to witness and I'm still upset over what could have been.
You don't take an IP like LotR, hot off the release of 3 record breaking movies... and then not even beat the sub numbers of old dial up games...and then call it a great success.
I don't really want to turn this into a ME:O vs LoTRO thing, but do you really think if Turbine stuck to the ME:O course it would have done better? Like you said ME:O was not mainstream in anyway, permanent death itself would have been a huge turn off to many players.
I'd actually put LOTRO's only moderate success down to bad marketing and management, considering how well SWTOR sold initially.
Originally posted by Wickedjelly Originally posted by TibernicusHaha are you joking?The biggest IP in any media in THE WORLD, and despite that, they never broke 500k subs. They didn't crash and burn, they never left the runway. They've just coasted along for years. So much so that they had to go FTP just to get some extra cash flow going.
I don't consider it the largest ip out there you should, it is the best selling book in the world aside from the Bible, and pre release there were millions hammering the beta sign up page. That number barely even cracked a couple hundred thousand on release day, because by then everyone had seen how much of a WoW clone it was and lost interest. nor did I see their turn to f2p as a failure. You should. DDO went FTP because it was a total failure and had nothing to lose. LotRO went the same route because it hadn't been growing for years. They did better than expected with DDO DDO was the laughing stock of the genre for close to 4 years so of course they reconsidered their venture in LotR. Was it a resounding success? No
Certainly isn't anything remotely like you claim either.
I was involved with LotRO from when it was called Middle Earth Online, until launch. I have never before seen a game that was better in alpha than when released, but Middle Earth Online was a far FAR superior game to LotRO. But, it wasn't mainstream enough, so they changed it to be just like WoW, and lost the vast majority of their fan base in the process. I lived 10 minutes away from Turbine's offices, I saw the radical shift in quality (for the worse) they company went through over the years. It was sad to witness and I'm still upset over what could have been.
You don't take an IP like LotR, hot off the release of 3 record breaking movies... and then not even beat the sub numbers of old dial up games...and then call it a great success.
First turbine never ever released its sub numbers so for you to state it never beat a dial up game just shows you are bias against lotro. Just so you know lotro has been around for over 5 yrs! A failed game would not have survived 5 yrs would not be releasing another expansion NEXT MONTH!! would not have the most preorders since moria would not be releasing the largest expansion since moria. You can hate all you want. Just because it doesnt say it has 10 million players does not mean its a failed game.
Comments
You have not played warhammer and rift, War have something called ¨open party system¨, and Anet found a way to let the players ¨BOT¨on the DE, or just make some macro and afk, thats fun.
I'd just like to point out that Frodo and company went out on a quest, there were some collecting involved, a few escorts, some rescues and not to mention a whole heap of killing.
Seriously every story breaks down into some form of basic tasks.
They found a way to let players bot on the DE? Really? Or are they banning people who bot? Might I suggest that you, as a GW2 hater, learn more before you make up things? What is fun is reading your many posts throwing shit at the wall and hoping it sticks. The more you post the less informed you look and the more clear your status as hater is evident.
I've noticed that the folks around you tend to share buffs and target the same monsters you're fighting...but thats about the extent of it. There are no coordinated activities. Given the auto targeting system in this game.....all I had to do in one of these DE group quests is spam my main & secondary attack button....and make sure I was with the heard, so that I wouldn't be singled out.
When I think of fun grouping in a MMO....I think of a coordinated team effort (player 1 CCs a monster while player 2 off tanks another, while player 3 main tanks the group of remaining mosters, while player 4 & 5 apply damage) What I've seen so far in GW2 DE PQ / Rift events is just a chaotic mass buff / mass burst damage everything in sight. It's streamlined grouping into more of a convienence thing than an opprotunity to work as a strategic unit.
Again, for folks that haven't been playing these type of linear progression MMOs for the last 7 years, the auto grouping feature of GW2 is very nice....and allows more players to complete more quests in a shorter amount of time. But for folks that have done this (in one shape or form) a thousand times, all the streamlining & added convienence just boils down the questing experience even faster to the realization that your just chasing the carrot.
I haven't experienced everything there is to do in the game yet....but from my early observation, it feels the same to me as when I played Rift for the first time (after playing WOW for several years)
And how did LOTR MMO work out? heh
Seriously though, a quest is a goal to work towards.....and should mean something to you. Frodo & company embarked on an epic quest that took a long time to complete, and had consequences of epic porportions.
Modern MMO quests are miniscule and offer a few pieces of copper or a piece of trivial gear.....and you can do dozens of them in one sitting.
The idea of questing is not the problem....the burn out is! When I played Ultima Online, there really weren't any quests. You made your own personal goal / quest. Mine was to own a house. It took me months of getting my characters abilities up to a point that I could actually start turning a profit from hunting....and then after I saved long enough, I could afford my first casa. Then my quest changed....I wanted to decorate it with all kinds of rare items.
When your quest is personal, and takes a long time to complete.....all the things you do in between seem less like your being lead around with a carrot, and more like a meaningful set of tasks to achieve some ends that you put a lot of value into.
Just my opinion anyways...
So you were basically a parasite? Every class has some support ability, buffs, conditions or debuffs. Using them helps the whole group. At the very least a player can revive others. Yet you who are complaining about a lack of coordination, was of no benefit to the group and was just there to suck up xp and karma?
Take it down a few notches champ lol
In the particular instance i talked about, there were so many people working on the DE that I barely had time to get in 1 or 2 shots on a monster before it was burned down. Which is exactly my point......all the damage was overkill. The tactics required by the group working on the DE was essently spam attack abilities.
Again, no coordination required.
Will the rosy eyed fans soon realize that Guild Wars 2 is nothing more than the latest iteration of the standard themepark model, as was SWTOR? Will the servers begin to show the lack of players resulting in server merges? Will GW2 become old news as the next "latest iteration of the standard themepark model " sets a release date and starts the cycle all over?
YEPPERS!
You can count on it. Over and over again........... I like to think "Woot! No sub fee!" However, sub fees are soon to be a thing of the past. Only a Panda would pay a sub fee ...........
~Hairysun
http://www.straightdope.com/
ROTFLOL!! =D
Lol.
You guys really need to be spoon fed don't you? I wonder what would have happened had anet never placed the hearts in game. Which I truly wish it hadn't.
Then you're looking for a sandbox. You know GW2 is going to be a themepark, so why complain? Do you go to EVE and complain about a lack of crafted storyline?
Each is different and targets different groups. While I admire what EVE and AA are doing/trying to do, those are not games I will ever play because they're not for me.
Edit: Also, what made Frodo's quest epic and the DE chains in GW2 not? Which part about what I said that they had to collect, escort, kill things is incorrect? According to your standards, Frodo's quest is just the same thing.
I disagree. GW2 is a themepark but plays completely differently than SWTOR. That is a very important point. Without going through all of the changes, the major one that is obvious is you can EXPLORE GW2. You cant do that with SWTOR. Its a corridor, quest hub-based game. The major difference is the way SWTOR plays is very similiar to EQ2 which is very similar to Vanguard which is very similiar to Rift. Down to the hotbar and tab targetting. Playing GW2 does not evoke memories of any of those games based on the action (yes tab targetted) combat. Calling them the same just because both are themeparks is too generic to present a valid argument.
I dont know if GW2 will lack a healthy player base. Honestly its very polished well made game that delivered on what it promised. Will the playerbase subside? Of course. The game just launched. I would presume those who rushed to max level, expected it to be 'the one', couldn't get over the lack of trinity, and those who simply disliked the game for personal reason will leave. This will show a definite decline in the base but one that should be expected (for any new game or MMO that launches).
Longevity is another question we cant answer one week+ into launch. To me it will come down to how often content is released as well as the updates ANet may have planned to keep the game fresh. But they no doubt have a solid foundation to easily build from.
I guess the emphasis here is everyone feels something different when playing GW2. For instance, when I experience a DE I feel like it is a group experience. But then again I disliked the grouping mechanic is most other MMOs. Does that make me wrong?
In terms of grouping/social, to me its just a reflection of the times. Grouping was big in older MMOs partly because it was new. It was great to play with someone else who was across the network and not on your couch. Then it became a way to meet people and develop an online community. I feel those days are (unfortunately) past. Grouping today from my experience is about completing content either with friends or because it was developed to be done in a group. What I find interesting is even though the reason for grouping changed. The way we group remained the same.
Where GW2 added value (to me) was the whole concept of not having to group (technically) to group. If I want to run with a stranger to take on some mobs. I dont have to 'select' anything. I just start fighting with that person. Something so simple, but you wonder why it was not ever implemented prior. If I, or the other person doesnt want to 'group' we simply go our separate ways. Done deal. I dont need to 'talk' to someone to group with them. Their actions speak for them. Again nothing to do in the interface.
Now Im aware there is a group mechanic that is closer to what we are used to in the past, but the point is the other option exists for those who enjoy to leverage it... myself included.
How did LOTRO work out? Pretty dam# good if you must ask. They are releasing another expansion next month, this expansion had the most pre-orders since Moria. LOTRO is a very healthy game with one of the best communities and worlds of any MMO out today. So hope that answered your question.
I can't even compare GW2 against SWTOR.
I left SWTOR after 4 weeks even though I had a 3 month sub.
GW2 has a great business model. e.g. I know I will play for a long time but in those moments when I feel like having a break I don't unsub or panic about the cost. I know I will pop back in at some point.
I know a lot of people will do the same so the population will be maintained and that means more cash shop sales and when an expansion comes out, more sales again.
SWTOR just feels way too linear and small to me. Its like a poor single player game trying to be an MMO.
GW2 has that big world feel which I love.
Haha are you joking?
The biggest IP in any media in THE WORLD, and despite that, they never broke 500k subs. They didn't crash and burn, they never left the runway. They've just coasted along for years. So much so that they had to go FTP just to get some extra cash flow going.
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I don't consider it the largest ip out there nor did I see their turn to f2p as a failure. They did better than expected with DDO so of course they reconsidered their venture in LotR. Was it a resounding success? No
Certainly isn't anything remotely like you claim either.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
I'd just like to point out that Frodo and company went out on a quest, there were some collecting involved, a few escorts, some rescues and not to mention a whole heap of killing.
Seriously every story breaks down into some form of basic tasks.
And how did LOTR MMO work out? heh
Seriously though, a quest is a goal to work towards.....and should mean something to you. Frodo & company embarked on an epic quest that took a long time to complete, and had consequences of epic porportions.
Modern MMO quests are miniscule and offer a few pieces of copper or a piece of trivial gear.....and you can do dozens of them in one sitting.
The idea of questing is not the problem....the burn out is! When I played Ultima Online, there really weren't any quests. You made your own personal goal / quest. Mine was to own a house. It took me months of getting my characters abilities up to a point that I could actually start turning a profit from hunting....and then after I saved long enough, I could afford my first casa. Then my quest changed....I wanted to decorate it with all kinds of rare items.
When your quest is personal, and takes a long time to complete.....all the things you do in between seem less like your being lead around with a carrot, and more like a meaningful set of tasks to achieve some ends that you put a lot of value into.
Just my opinion anyways...
How did LOTRO work out? Pretty dam# good if you must ask.
Haha are you joking?
The biggest IP in any media in THE WORLD, and despite that, they never broke 500k subs. They didn't crash and burn, they never left the runway. They've just coasted along for years. So much so that they had to go FTP just to get some extra cash flow going.
I understand you are trying to make a point a very silly one at that but if your going to quote me or anyone cutting out the part that explaines the part you left clearly shows that person was correct and you were trying to hide something. Nice try buddy EPIC fail by you.I was involved with LotRO from when it was called Middle Earth Online, until launch. I have never before seen a game that was better in alpha than when released, but Middle Earth Online was a far FAR superior game to LotRO. But, it wasn't mainstream enough, so they changed it to be just like WoW, and lost the vast majority of their fan base in the process. I lived 10 minutes away from Turbine's offices, I saw the radical shift in quality (for the worse) they company went through over the years. It was sad to witness and I'm still upset over what could have been.
You don't take an IP like LotR, hot off the release of 3 record breaking movies... and then not even beat the sub numbers of old dial up games...and then call it a great success.
You mean... merging servers and firing half your staff within 3 months, and not turning a profit?
I never said it was a great success. What I said was your assertion was ludicrous. Pretty safe to say if things went as bad as you claim it would not still be live let alone coming out with another expansion.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
You mean... merging servers and firing half your staff within 3 months, and not turning a profit?
They merged servers. They fired staff... otherwise, your numbers are WAY off... and BTW, Bioware insists to this day that the game is turning profits. So yeah... hate much?Error: 37. Signature not found. Please connect to my server for signature access.
I don't really want to turn this into a ME:O vs LoTRO thing, but do you really think if Turbine stuck to the ME:O course it would have done better? Like you said ME:O was not mainstream in anyway, permanent death itself would have been a huge turn off to many players.
I'd actually put LOTRO's only moderate success down to bad marketing and management, considering how well SWTOR sold initially.
I don't consider it the largest ip out there you should, it is the best selling book in the world aside from the Bible, and pre release there were millions hammering the beta sign up page. That number barely even cracked a couple hundred thousand on release day, because by then everyone had seen how much of a WoW clone it was and lost interest. nor did I see their turn to f2p as a failure. You should. DDO went FTP because it was a total failure and had nothing to lose. LotRO went the same route because it hadn't been growing for years. They did better than expected with DDO DDO was the laughing stock of the genre for close to 4 years so of course they reconsidered their venture in LotR. Was it a resounding success? No
Certainly isn't anything remotely like you claim either.
I was involved with LotRO from when it was called Middle Earth Online, until launch. I have never before seen a game that was better in alpha than when released, but Middle Earth Online was a far FAR superior game to LotRO. But, it wasn't mainstream enough, so they changed it to be just like WoW, and lost the vast majority of their fan base in the process. I lived 10 minutes away from Turbine's offices, I saw the radical shift in quality (for the worse) they company went through over the years. It was sad to witness and I'm still upset over what could have been.
You don't take an IP like LotR, hot off the release of 3 record breaking movies... and then not even beat the sub numbers of old dial up games...and then call it a great success.
First turbine never ever released its sub numbers so for you to state it never beat a dial up game just shows you are bias against lotro. Just so you know lotro has been around for over 5 yrs! A failed game would not have survived 5 yrs would not be releasing another expansion NEXT MONTH!! would not have the most preorders since moria would not be releasing the largest expansion since moria. You can hate all you want. Just because it doesnt say it has 10 million players does not mean its a failed game.