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Down Leveling

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  • L0C0ManL0C0Man Puerto OrdazPosts: 1,065Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Doomedfox
    Originally posted by Rokurgepta
    Originally posted by Mannish
    Originally posted by Rokurgepta
    Originally posted by Mannish
    Originally posted by Rokurgepta
    Originally posted by Mannish
    Originally posted by Rokurgepta
    Originally posted by Mannish
    Originally posted by KhinRunite
    Originally posted by Mannish
    They should have done what FFXIV Reborn is doing and thats giving you the option to down level when you want to down level. Good idea but like many others poorly executed.

    Not sure I agree. A person who chose not to downlevel can still trivialize content for lowbies who are not inherently playing cooperatively with him. Unless FFXIV has a system in place to prevent this, it's still a poor execution.

     

    In any mmo high levels can go to the low level area if they choose and trivialize content for lower levels but they dont do it. They dont because they gain nonthing from doing it. Having the choice is just better. Everquest 2's system is similar.

     They dont? Please people have been griefing low level players since the day I started Ultima Online. To say people do not go and do it is ignoring reality. In games where it can be done it has been done. Its the reason i quit Lineage 2 the first week I started. I could not even play in the starter area without being griefed by higher level characters.

     

    This system is great for me because when I want to join my brohter I am not forced to keep a character at his level. All my characters can be his level.

     

     

    You are talking about an Open PVP game and thats the way they should be and always have been. Guild Wars 2 is a PVE game and like I have said over and over if you make it to were high level players gain nonthing from killing low level mobs then thats all there is to it. Is this really that hard to understand?

     No its not hard to understand, but you think high levels would not go there if they got nothing from kills and I think you are living in a fantasy. High levels would go and ruin low levels because griefing losers are in every game.

     

    Open PvP games that allow top levels in low level starter areas are stupid to me. There is nothing worse than a PVE and PVP game where you cant leave town to the low level area because high levels want to gank level 3s.

     

    If you think high levels going to low level areas in pvp games is stupid then dont play open pvp games. Thats not what I am talking about here. There is no mmo out there to where high level players go to low level areas and kill mobs that they dont get anything from. If they are show me a forum post from any game to where people have brought this up as being a problem.

     So my own personal experience in MMOs starting with UO right after came out is not enough, I need a forum post for you? Please. People will grief in exactly the way I said if they can. In GW2 it would be high levels ruining DEs in low level areas and if you think it will not happen you are kidding yourself and trying to kid the rest of us.

     

    Do you people even read the post? I said if they gain nonthing from it. Why would high levels do low level events if they dont get anything?

     Because you can say it over and over but it will not change the fact that people would do it just to grief low levels. You can pretend no one does such things all you want. You can live in a fantasy. I live in reality and I know people would go and kill mobs and DEs just to screw with people. The same type of people who took advantage of the Karma vendor last week are the kinds that would go and screw you over. Do you think this does not happen?

    But if they could not take part in DEs unless they would switch on dlvl.....

    How would you implement a system like that?... make mobs invincible to high level chars if they're related to a DE?.. what about DE's that happen in areas where the wandering mobs are part of the difficulty, all mobs around become invincible past a certain level difference?.

    What can men do against such reckless hate?

  • DrachasorDrachasor Columbus, OHPosts: 2,678Member
    Originally posted by Adiaris

    You assume choices are always a good thing, hate to break it to ya, they're not. Even if I did like to one shot wolves in noob areas ths choice would not work with the gw2 system. Ifnyou don't get that there's nothing Anybody in this thread can say tonhelp you. The one area where it could be debatable is personal story as it affects no one else.

    Exactly, choice itself is not a good reason.  Choice does not always add to a game.

    First, a choice must be meaningful.  The fixes that optional DL would require would render it a meaningless choice of "have interactable content" verses "no interactable content."

    There are several other factors to consider, but if it can't even pass the meaningful bar, then one can stop right there.

  • RecoreRecore Posts: 5,090Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by L0C0Man
    Originally posted by Mannish
    Originally posted by Rokurgepta
    Originally posted by Mannish
    Originally posted by Rokurgepta
    Originally posted by Mannish
    Originally posted by Rokurgepta
    Originally posted by Mannish
    Originally posted by KhinRunite
    Originally posted by Mannish
    They should have done what FFXIV Reborn is doing and thats giving you the option to down level when you want to down level. Good idea but like many others poorly executed.

    Not sure I agree. A person who chose not to downlevel can still trivialize content for lowbies who are not inherently playing cooperatively with him. Unless FFXIV has a system in place to prevent this, it's still a poor execution.

     

    In any mmo high levels can go to the low level area if they choose and trivialize content for lower levels but they dont do it. They dont because they gain nonthing from doing it. Having the choice is just better. Everquest 2's system is similar.

     They dont? Please people have been griefing low level players since the day I started Ultima Online. To say people do not go and do it is ignoring reality. In games where it can be done it has been done. Its the reason i quit Lineage 2 the first week I started. I could not even play in the starter area without being griefed by higher level characters.

     

    This system is great for me because when I want to join my brohter I am not forced to keep a character at his level. All my characters can be his level.

     

     

    You are talking about an Open PVP game and thats the way they should be and always have been. Guild Wars 2 is a PVE game and like I have said over and over if you make it to were high level players gain nonthing from killing low level mobs then thats all there is to it. Is this really that hard to understand?

     No its not hard to understand, but you think high levels would not go there if they got nothing from kills and I think you are living in a fantasy. High levels would go and ruin low levels because griefing losers are in every game.

     

    Open PvP games that allow top levels in low level starter areas are stupid to me. There is nothing worse than a PVE and PVP game where you cant leave town to the low level area because high levels want to gank level 3s.

     

    If you think high levels going to low level areas in pvp games is stupid then dont play open pvp games. Thats not what I am talking about here. There is no mmo out there to where high level players go to low level areas and kill mobs that they dont get anything from. If they are show me a forum post from any game to where people have brought this up as being a problem.

     So my own personal experience in MMOs starting with UO right after came out is not enough, I need a forum post for you? Please. People will grief in exactly the way I said if they can. In GW2 it would be high levels ruining DEs in low level areas and if you think it will not happen you are kidding yourself and trying to kid the rest of us.

     

    Do you people even read the post? I said if they gain nonthing from it. Why would high levels do low level events if they dont get anything?

    1. To powerlevel friends or other people (in WoW I remember people paying for being powerleveled this way).

    2. To gather low level crafting materials to level up crafting professions or to sell in AH (I remember in WoW I made over 2000 gold by leveling up mining from 0 on my deathknight and then selling the ores).

    3. Out of boredom

    4. To grief lower level players by killing all mobs before they can (I've seen it in on WoW, high level chars using AoE tagging and killing every mob on a quest area before low levels could get to them to grief)

    Just a few that come to my mind offhand.. :)

     

    1. Read about what I said about how Lineage 2 handles this.

    2. They are gaining something from it and they should

    3. This does not happen.

    4. Show me a forum post to where people complained about it. If this was an issue WoW would not have become the mmo success that it is today. Nobody is going to play a mmo that they can not level in.

    Raptr Gamercard
  • VannorVannor YorkshirePosts: 2,968Member Uncommon
    Quote of quote of quote of quote of quote of quote
  • KhinRuniteKhinRunite ManilaPosts: 879Member
    Originally posted by Mannish
    Originally posted by KhinRunite

    Man, was I intentionally skipped by Mannish? :D

    I don't recall playing a MMO where mobs don't drop crafting materials. That includes the current FFXIV. Not sure about 2.0 though.

    Also, is there no player boosting going on in any MMO you've played? Have you never experienced this before?

     

    Read my last 2 post and you will see I addressed your concerns also. You did say something about ganking lowbies but Guild Wars 2 is not a pvp game. I am talking about how it should work in Guild Wars 2.

    I had to read up on EQ2 mentoring as you brought it up multiple times. I think it's a nice system. Also I can't find anything being said about player boosting (e.g. giving low levels uber heals so he can take more mobs than he normally can, and monopolize a spawn area). It's not as widespread as the crafting issue though.

    I think this could equally work for GW2. Don't give rewards to unadjusted players. But I think ANet is simply proofing the game from the potential menaces that would pass by an area aiming for that vista or POI, run accross a DE, and decides to  do a AOE that one shots them. That'll ruin the entire experience for the ones actually doing the DE. It's nice if people won't do this, but it's nicer that people can't actually do this. In the first place the downscaling isn't that bad. You're still overpowered, just not Godlike.

  • xxtriadxxxxtriadxx TherePosts: 134Member Uncommon

    One of the games best features.

     

  • RokurgeptaRokurgepta wallington, NJPosts: 2,136Member
    Originally posted by Mannish
    Originally posted by L0C0Man
    Originally posted by Mannish
    Originally posted by Rokurgepta
    Originally posted by Mannish
    Originally posted by Rokurgepta
    Originally posted by Mannish
    Originally posted by Rokurgepta
    Originally posted by Mannish
    Originally posted by KhinRunite
    Originally posted by Mannish
    They should have done what FFXIV Reborn is doing and thats giving you the option to down level when you want to down level. Good idea but like many others poorly executed.

    Not sure I agree. A person who chose not to downlevel can still trivialize content for lowbies who are not inherently playing cooperatively with him. Unless FFXIV has a system in place to prevent this, it's still a poor execution.

     

    In any mmo high levels can go to the low level area if they choose and trivialize content for lower levels but they dont do it. They dont because they gain nonthing from doing it. Having the choice is just better. Everquest 2's system is similar.

     They dont? Please people have been griefing low level players since the day I started Ultima Online. To say people do not go and do it is ignoring reality. In games where it can be done it has been done. Its the reason i quit Lineage 2 the first week I started. I could not even play in the starter area without being griefed by higher level characters.

     

    This system is great for me because when I want to join my brohter I am not forced to keep a character at his level. All my characters can be his level.

     

     

    You are talking about an Open PVP game and thats the way they should be and always have been. Guild Wars 2 is a PVE game and like I have said over and over if you make it to were high level players gain nonthing from killing low level mobs then thats all there is to it. Is this really that hard to understand?

     No its not hard to understand, but you think high levels would not go there if they got nothing from kills and I think you are living in a fantasy. High levels would go and ruin low levels because griefing losers are in every game.

     

    Open PvP games that allow top levels in low level starter areas are stupid to me. There is nothing worse than a PVE and PVP game where you cant leave town to the low level area because high levels want to gank level 3s.

     

    If you think high levels going to low level areas in pvp games is stupid then dont play open pvp games. Thats not what I am talking about here. There is no mmo out there to where high level players go to low level areas and kill mobs that they dont get anything from. If they are show me a forum post from any game to where people have brought this up as being a problem.

     So my own personal experience in MMOs starting with UO right after came out is not enough, I need a forum post for you? Please. People will grief in exactly the way I said if they can. In GW2 it would be high levels ruining DEs in low level areas and if you think it will not happen you are kidding yourself and trying to kid the rest of us.

     

    Do you people even read the post? I said if they gain nonthing from it. Why would high levels do low level events if they dont get anything?

    1. To powerlevel friends or other people (in WoW I remember people paying for being powerleveled this way).

    2. To gather low level crafting materials to level up crafting professions or to sell in AH (I remember in WoW I made over 2000 gold by leveling up mining from 0 on my deathknight and then selling the ores).

    3. Out of boredom

    4. To grief lower level players by killing all mobs before they can (I've seen it in on WoW, high level chars using AoE tagging and killing every mob on a quest area before low levels could get to them to grief)

    Just a few that come to my mind offhand.. :)

     

    1. Read about what I said about how Lineage 2 handles this.

    2. They are gaining something from it and they should

    3. This does not happen.

    4. Show me a forum post to where people complained about it. If this was an issue WoW would not have become the mmo success that it is today. Nobody is going to play a mmo that they can not level in.

     You seem to think that a forum post is absolute proof. Are you really this simple? You think people wont do it out of boredom. Have you never run into a griefer before? You seem naive about human nature.

  • RecoreRecore Posts: 5,090Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rokurgepta
    Originally posted by Mannish
    Originally posted by L0C0Man
    Originally posted by Mannish
    Originally posted by Rokurgepta
    Originally posted by Mannish
    Originally posted by Rokurgepta
    Originally posted by Mannish
    Originally posted by Rokurgepta
    Originally posted by Mannish
    Originally posted by KhinRunite
    Originally posted by Mannish
    They should have done what FFXIV Reborn is doing and thats giving you the option to down level when you want to down level. Good idea but like many others poorly executed.

    Not sure I agree. A person who chose not to downlevel can still trivialize content for lowbies who are not inherently playing cooperatively with him. Unless FFXIV has a system in place to prevent this, it's still a poor execution.

     

    In any mmo high levels can go to the low level area if they choose and trivialize content for lower levels but they dont do it. They dont because they gain nonthing from doing it. Having the choice is just better. Everquest 2's system is similar.

     They dont? Please people have been griefing low level players since the day I started Ultima Online. To say people do not go and do it is ignoring reality. In games where it can be done it has been done. Its the reason i quit Lineage 2 the first week I started. I could not even play in the starter area without being griefed by higher level characters.

     

    This system is great for me because when I want to join my brohter I am not forced to keep a character at his level. All my characters can be his level.

     

     

    You are talking about an Open PVP game and thats the way they should be and always have been. Guild Wars 2 is a PVE game and like I have said over and over if you make it to were high level players gain nonthing from killing low level mobs then thats all there is to it. Is this really that hard to understand?

     No its not hard to understand, but you think high levels would not go there if they got nothing from kills and I think you are living in a fantasy. High levels would go and ruin low levels because griefing losers are in every game.

     

    Open PvP games that allow top levels in low level starter areas are stupid to me. There is nothing worse than a PVE and PVP game where you cant leave town to the low level area because high levels want to gank level 3s.

     

    If you think high levels going to low level areas in pvp games is stupid then dont play open pvp games. Thats not what I am talking about here. There is no mmo out there to where high level players go to low level areas and kill mobs that they dont get anything from. If they are show me a forum post from any game to where people have brought this up as being a problem.

     So my own personal experience in MMOs starting with UO right after came out is not enough, I need a forum post for you? Please. People will grief in exactly the way I said if they can. In GW2 it would be high levels ruining DEs in low level areas and if you think it will not happen you are kidding yourself and trying to kid the rest of us.

     

    Do you people even read the post? I said if they gain nonthing from it. Why would high levels do low level events if they dont get anything?

    1. To powerlevel friends or other people (in WoW I remember people paying for being powerleveled this way).

    2. To gather low level crafting materials to level up crafting professions or to sell in AH (I remember in WoW I made over 2000 gold by leveling up mining from 0 on my deathknight and then selling the ores).

    3. Out of boredom

    4. To grief lower level players by killing all mobs before they can (I've seen it in on WoW, high level chars using AoE tagging and killing every mob on a quest area before low levels could get to them to grief)

    Just a few that come to my mind offhand.. :)

     

    1. Read about what I said about how Lineage 2 handles this.

    2. They are gaining something from it and they should

    3. This does not happen.

    4. Show me a forum post to where people complained about it. If this was an issue WoW would not have become the mmo success that it is today. Nobody is going to play a mmo that they can not level in.

     You seem to think that a forum post is absolute proof. Are you really this simple? You think people wont do it out of boredom. Have you never run into a griefer before? You seem naive about human nature.

     

    Are you really that shallow to think I will belive you just by your word of mouth? I know people wont do it out of boredom because I play mmos. You cant show the post because you know no game out there has ever had this as an issue in there game.

    Raptr Gamercard
  • RecoreRecore Posts: 5,090Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by KhinRunite
    Originally posted by Mannish
    Originally posted by KhinRunite

    Man, was I intentionally skipped by Mannish? :D

    I don't recall playing a MMO where mobs don't drop crafting materials. That includes the current FFXIV. Not sure about 2.0 though.

    Also, is there no player boosting going on in any MMO you've played? Have you never experienced this before?

     

    Read my last 2 post and you will see I addressed your concerns also. You did say something about ganking lowbies but Guild Wars 2 is not a pvp game. I am talking about how it should work in Guild Wars 2.

    I had to read up on EQ2 mentoring as you brought it up multiple times. I think it's a nice system. Also I can't find anything being said about player boosting (e.g. giving low levels uber heals so he can take more mobs than he normally can, and monopolize a spawn area). It's not as widespread as the crafting issue though.

    I think this could equally work for GW2. Don't give rewards to unadjusted players. But I think ANet is simply proofing the game from the potential menaces that would pass by an area aiming for that vista or POI, run accross a DE, and decides to  do a AOE that one shots them. That'll ruin the entire experience for the ones actually doing the DE. It's nice if people won't do this, but it's nicer that people can't actually do this. In the first place the downscaling isn't that bad. You're still overpowered, just not Godlike.

     

    If they attack DE mobs then they get a penalty for doing it. I am not sure how they should do it but I know that it should be by choice. As one poster said choice is always better then being forced.

    Raptr Gamercard
  • RokurgeptaRokurgepta wallington, NJPosts: 2,136Member
    Originally posted by Mannish
    Originally posted by Rokurgepta
    Originally posted by Mannish
    Originally posted by L0C0Man
    Originally posted by Mannish
    Originally posted by Rokurgepta
    Originally posted by Mannish
    Originally posted by Rokurgepta
    Originally posted by Mannish
    Originally posted by Rokurgepta
    Originally posted by Mannish
    Originally posted by KhinRunite
    Originally posted by Mannish
    They should have done what FFXIV Reborn is doing and thats giving you the option to down level when you want to down level. Good idea but like many others poorly executed.

    Not sure I agree. A person who chose not to downlevel can still trivialize content for lowbies who are not inherently playing cooperatively with him. Unless FFXIV has a system in place to prevent this, it's still a poor execution.

     

    In any mmo high levels can go to the low level area if they choose and trivialize content for lower levels but they dont do it. They dont because they gain nonthing from doing it. Having the choice is just better. Everquest 2's system is similar.

     They dont? Please people have been griefing low level players since the day I started Ultima Online. To say people do not go and do it is ignoring reality. In games where it can be done it has been done. Its the reason i quit Lineage 2 the first week I started. I could not even play in the starter area without being griefed by higher level characters.

     

    This system is great for me because when I want to join my brohter I am not forced to keep a character at his level. All my characters can be his level.

     

     

    You are talking about an Open PVP game and thats the way they should be and always have been. Guild Wars 2 is a PVE game and like I have said over and over if you make it to were high level players gain nonthing from killing low level mobs then thats all there is to it. Is this really that hard to understand?

     No its not hard to understand, but you think high levels would not go there if they got nothing from kills and I think you are living in a fantasy. High levels would go and ruin low levels because griefing losers are in every game.

     

    Open PvP games that allow top levels in low level starter areas are stupid to me. There is nothing worse than a PVE and PVP game where you cant leave town to the low level area because high levels want to gank level 3s.

     

    If you think high levels going to low level areas in pvp games is stupid then dont play open pvp games. Thats not what I am talking about here. There is no mmo out there to where high level players go to low level areas and kill mobs that they dont get anything from. If they are show me a forum post from any game to where people have brought this up as being a problem.

     So my own personal experience in MMOs starting with UO right after came out is not enough, I need a forum post for you? Please. People will grief in exactly the way I said if they can. In GW2 it would be high levels ruining DEs in low level areas and if you think it will not happen you are kidding yourself and trying to kid the rest of us.

     

    Do you people even read the post? I said if they gain nonthing from it. Why would high levels do low level events if they dont get anything?

    1. To powerlevel friends or other people (in WoW I remember people paying for being powerleveled this way).

    2. To gather low level crafting materials to level up crafting professions or to sell in AH (I remember in WoW I made over 2000 gold by leveling up mining from 0 on my deathknight and then selling the ores).

    3. Out of boredom

    4. To grief lower level players by killing all mobs before they can (I've seen it in on WoW, high level chars using AoE tagging and killing every mob on a quest area before low levels could get to them to grief)

    Just a few that come to my mind offhand.. :)

     

    1. Read about what I said about how Lineage 2 handles this.

    2. They are gaining something from it and they should

    3. This does not happen.

    4. Show me a forum post to where people complained about it. If this was an issue WoW would not have become the mmo success that it is today. Nobody is going to play a mmo that they can not level in.

     You seem to think that a forum post is absolute proof. Are you really this simple? You think people wont do it out of boredom. Have you never run into a griefer before? You seem naive about human nature.

     

    Are you really that shallow to think I will belive you just by your word of mouth? I know people wont do it out of boredom because I play mmos. You cant show the post because you know no game out there has ever had this as an issue in there game.

     Shallow? I think you used the wrong word there. You know they wont do what I have seen them do in games for years? Ok you win. Debate over. There is simply no way to convince a man living in fantasy that there is a reality. Have a good day, I will keep loving the fact that griefers cant ruin my fun in GW2, you keep living in Neverland.

  • RokurgeptaRokurgepta wallington, NJPosts: 2,136Member
    Originally posted by Mannish
    Originally posted by KhinRunite
    Originally posted by Mannish
    Originally posted by KhinRunite

    Man, was I intentionally skipped by Mannish? :D

    I don't recall playing a MMO where mobs don't drop crafting materials. That includes the current FFXIV. Not sure about 2.0 though.

    Also, is there no player boosting going on in any MMO you've played? Have you never experienced this before?

     

    Read my last 2 post and you will see I addressed your concerns also. You did say something about ganking lowbies but Guild Wars 2 is not a pvp game. I am talking about how it should work in Guild Wars 2.

    I had to read up on EQ2 mentoring as you brought it up multiple times. I think it's a nice system. Also I can't find anything being said about player boosting (e.g. giving low levels uber heals so he can take more mobs than he normally can, and monopolize a spawn area). It's not as widespread as the crafting issue though.

    I think this could equally work for GW2. Don't give rewards to unadjusted players. But I think ANet is simply proofing the game from the potential menaces that would pass by an area aiming for that vista or POI, run accross a DE, and decides to  do a AOE that one shots them. That'll ruin the entire experience for the ones actually doing the DE. It's nice if people won't do this, but it's nicer that people can't actually do this. In the first place the downscaling isn't that bad. You're still overpowered, just not Godlike.

     

    If they attack DE mobs then they get a penalty for doing it. I am not sure how they should do it but I know that it should be by choice. As one poster said choice is always better then being forced.

     If there is a huge penalty, that same poster said attacking DE mobs should result in no damage, then you took away the choice just like downleveling. Do you understand that if you are turned to stone for attacking the low level mob you are not really being given a choice. That was just one games way of telling you not to do it. GW2 actually gives you more freedom because now you can CHOOSE to be downleveled and do level appropriate content or CHOOSE to stay in content for your actual level.

    [mod edit]
  • RecoreRecore Posts: 5,090Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rokurgepta
    Originally posted by Mannish
    Originally posted by KhinRunite
    Originally posted by Mannish
    Originally posted by KhinRunite

    Man, was I intentionally skipped by Mannish? :D

    I don't recall playing a MMO where mobs don't drop crafting materials. That includes the current FFXIV. Not sure about 2.0 though.

    Also, is there no player boosting going on in any MMO you've played? Have you never experienced this before?

     

    Read my last 2 post and you will see I addressed your concerns also. You did say something about ganking lowbies but Guild Wars 2 is not a pvp game. I am talking about how it should work in Guild Wars 2.

    I had to read up on EQ2 mentoring as you brought it up multiple times. I think it's a nice system. Also I can't find anything being said about player boosting (e.g. giving low levels uber heals so he can take more mobs than he normally can, and monopolize a spawn area). It's not as widespread as the crafting issue though.

    I think this could equally work for GW2. Don't give rewards to unadjusted players. But I think ANet is simply proofing the game from the potential menaces that would pass by an area aiming for that vista or POI, run accross a DE, and decides to  do a AOE that one shots them. That'll ruin the entire experience for the ones actually doing the DE. It's nice if people won't do this, but it's nicer that people can't actually do this. In the first place the downscaling isn't that bad. You're still overpowered, just not Godlike.

     

    If they attack DE mobs then they get a penalty for doing it. I am not sure how they should do it but I know that it should be by choice. As one poster said choice is always better then being forced.

     If there is a huge penalty, that same poster said attacking DE mobs should result in no damage, then you took away the choice just like downleveling. Do you understand that if you are turned to stone for attacking the low level mob you are not really being given a choice. That was just one games way of telling you not to do it. GW2 actually gives you more freedom because now you can CHOOSE to be downleveled and do level appropriate content or CHOOSE to stay in content for your actual level.

     

    [mod edit]

     

     

    I have no idea what you are even talking about.

    Raptr Gamercard
  • RizelStarRizelStar Raleigh, NCPosts: 2,773Member

    *Reads some pages and comments*

    Ha ha wow....any way downleveling is one of the best features in the game, I believe people addressed the reasons as to why.

    I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

    I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

    P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

    Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  • mearimeari SydneyPosts: 101Member
    Originally posted by Mannish
    Originally posted by Rokurgepta
    Originally posted by Mannish
    Originally posted by L0C0Man
    Originally posted by Mannish
    Originally posted by Rokurgepta
    Originally posted by Mannish
    Originally posted by Rokurgepta
    Originally posted by Mannish
    Originally posted by Rokurgepta
    Originally posted by Mannish
    Originally posted by KhinRunite
    Originally posted by Mannish
    They should have done what FFXIV Reborn is doing and thats giving you the option to down level when you want to down level. Good idea but like many others poorly executed.

    Not sure I agree. A person who chose not to downlevel can still trivialize content for lowbies who are not inherently playing cooperatively with him. Unless FFXIV has a system in place to prevent this, it's still a poor execution.

     

    In any mmo high levels can go to the low level area if they choose and trivialize content for lower levels but they dont do it. They dont because they gain nonthing from doing it. Having the choice is just better. Everquest 2's system is similar.

     They dont? Please people have been griefing low level players since the day I started Ultima Online. To say people do not go and do it is ignoring reality. In games where it can be done it has been done. Its the reason i quit Lineage 2 the first week I started. I could not even play in the starter area without being griefed by higher level characters.

     

    This system is great for me because when I want to join my brohter I am not forced to keep a character at his level. All my characters can be his level.

     

     

    You are talking about an Open PVP game and thats the way they should be and always have been. Guild Wars 2 is a PVE game and like I have said over and over if you make it to were high level players gain nonthing from killing low level mobs then thats all there is to it. Is this really that hard to understand?

     No its not hard to understand, but you think high levels would not go there if they got nothing from kills and I think you are living in a fantasy. High levels would go and ruin low levels because griefing losers are in every game.

     

    Open PvP games that allow top levels in low level starter areas are stupid to me. There is nothing worse than a PVE and PVP game where you cant leave town to the low level area because high levels want to gank level 3s.

     

    If you think high levels going to low level areas in pvp games is stupid then dont play open pvp games. Thats not what I am talking about here. There is no mmo out there to where high level players go to low level areas and kill mobs that they dont get anything from. If they are show me a forum post from any game to where people have brought this up as being a problem.

     So my own personal experience in MMOs starting with UO right after came out is not enough, I need a forum post for you? Please. People will grief in exactly the way I said if they can. In GW2 it would be high levels ruining DEs in low level areas and if you think it will not happen you are kidding yourself and trying to kid the rest of us.

     

    Do you people even read the post? I said if they gain nonthing from it. Why would high levels do low level events if they dont get anything?

    1. To powerlevel friends or other people (in WoW I remember people paying for being powerleveled this way).

    2. To gather low level crafting materials to level up crafting professions or to sell in AH (I remember in WoW I made over 2000 gold by leveling up mining from 0 on my deathknight and then selling the ores).

    3. Out of boredom

    4. To grief lower level players by killing all mobs before they can (I've seen it in on WoW, high level chars using AoE tagging and killing every mob on a quest area before low levels could get to them to grief)

    Just a few that come to my mind offhand.. :)

     

    1. Read about what I said about how Lineage 2 handles this.

    2. They are gaining something from it and they should

    3. This does not happen.

    4. Show me a forum post to where people complained about it. If this was an issue WoW would not have become the mmo success that it is today. Nobody is going to play a mmo that they can not level in.

     You seem to think that a forum post is absolute proof. Are you really this simple? You think people wont do it out of boredom. Have you never run into a griefer before? You seem naive about human nature.

     

    Are you really that shallow to think I will belive you just by your word of mouth? I know people wont do it out of boredom because I play mmos. You cant show the post because you know no game out there has ever had this as an issue in there game.

    Dude, are you that naive? Griefing lowbies happens all the time. Why do people gank lowbies in opvp? Cause it get a rise out of the other guy, cause it lets off stress. Even I have griefed lowbies back when I was young by killing all their quest mobs, arguably the guy took the copper node I was aiming for and I was in a bad mood that day, but I sure guaranteed he got no leveling done for the next 10min. Did he complain on a forum? probably not, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

  • RokurgeptaRokurgepta wallington, NJPosts: 2,136Member
    Originally posted by meari
    Originally posted by Mannish
    Originally posted by Rokurgepta
    Originally posted by Mannish
    Originally posted by L0C0Man
    Originally posted by Mannish
    Originally posted by Rokurgepta
    Originally posted by Mannish
    Originally posted by Rokurgepta
    Originally posted by Mannish
    Originally posted by Rokurgepta
    Originally posted by Mannish
    Originally posted by KhinRunite
    Originally posted by Mannish
    They should have done what FFXIV Reborn is doing and thats giving you the option to down level when you want to down level. Good idea but like many others poorly executed.

    Not sure I agree. A person who chose not to downlevel can still trivialize content for lowbies who are not inherently playing cooperatively with him. Unless FFXIV has a system in place to prevent this, it's still a poor execution.

     

    In any mmo high levels can go to the low level area if they choose and trivialize content for lower levels but they dont do it. They dont because they gain nonthing from doing it. Having the choice is just better. Everquest 2's system is similar.

     They dont? Please people have been griefing low level players since the day I started Ultima Online. To say people do not go and do it is ignoring reality. In games where it can be done it has been done. Its the reason i quit Lineage 2 the first week I started. I could not even play in the starter area without being griefed by higher level characters.

     

    This system is great for me because when I want to join my brohter I am not forced to keep a character at his level. All my characters can be his level.

     

     

    You are talking about an Open PVP game and thats the way they should be and always have been. Guild Wars 2 is a PVE game and like I have said over and over if you make it to were high level players gain nonthing from killing low level mobs then thats all there is to it. Is this really that hard to understand?

     No its not hard to understand, but you think high levels would not go there if they got nothing from kills and I think you are living in a fantasy. High levels would go and ruin low levels because griefing losers are in every game.

     

    Open PvP games that allow top levels in low level starter areas are stupid to me. There is nothing worse than a PVE and PVP game where you cant leave town to the low level area because high levels want to gank level 3s.

     

    If you think high levels going to low level areas in pvp games is stupid then dont play open pvp games. Thats not what I am talking about here. There is no mmo out there to where high level players go to low level areas and kill mobs that they dont get anything from. If they are show me a forum post from any game to where people have brought this up as being a problem.

     So my own personal experience in MMOs starting with UO right after came out is not enough, I need a forum post for you? Please. People will grief in exactly the way I said if they can. In GW2 it would be high levels ruining DEs in low level areas and if you think it will not happen you are kidding yourself and trying to kid the rest of us.

     

    Do you people even read the post? I said if they gain nonthing from it. Why would high levels do low level events if they dont get anything?

    1. To powerlevel friends or other people (in WoW I remember people paying for being powerleveled this way).

    2. To gather low level crafting materials to level up crafting professions or to sell in AH (I remember in WoW I made over 2000 gold by leveling up mining from 0 on my deathknight and then selling the ores).

    3. Out of boredom

    4. To grief lower level players by killing all mobs before they can (I've seen it in on WoW, high level chars using AoE tagging and killing every mob on a quest area before low levels could get to them to grief)

    Just a few that come to my mind offhand.. :)

     

    1. Read about what I said about how Lineage 2 handles this.

    2. They are gaining something from it and they should

    3. This does not happen.

    4. Show me a forum post to where people complained about it. If this was an issue WoW would not have become the mmo success that it is today. Nobody is going to play a mmo that they can not level in.

     You seem to think that a forum post is absolute proof. Are you really this simple? You think people wont do it out of boredom. Have you never run into a griefer before? You seem naive about human nature.

     

    Are you really that shallow to think I will belive you just by your word of mouth? I know people wont do it out of boredom because I play mmos. You cant show the post because you know no game out there has ever had this as an issue in there game.

    Dude, are you that naive? Griefing lowbies happens all the time. Why do people gank lowbies in opvp? Cause it get a rise out of the other guy, cause it lets off stress. Even I have griefed lowbies back when I was young by killing all their quest mobs, arguably the guy took the copper node I was aiming for and I was in a bad mood that day, but I sure guaranteed he got no leveling done for the next 10min. Did he complain on a forum? probably not, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

     Without a forum post I doubt he will believe you. Its obvious that a forum post is absolute proof. Of course the fact you are here admitting to doing it and I am posting that it has happened and I have seen it should be enough proof since they are forum posts about griefing. I guess we need a forum post from another game as validation.

  • DrachasorDrachasor Columbus, OHPosts: 2,678Member

    Eh, I feel if the people arguing for optional down leveling were actually interested in the pros and cons of that idea and with game design then my posts wouldn't have largely been ignored by them.  Heck, they ignored almost everyone and most of their responses ignored critical points that were being made.

     

    *yawn*

  • fat_taddlerfat_taddler Wanaque, NJPosts: 286Member

    On paper I thought the down leveling concept sounded lame but after playing the game I think it's fantastic.  

     

     

  • UrkoUrko TruroPosts: 88Member

    Its a great feature down levelling , it means you can go back and do any dynamic events and fight mobs in areas youve been to

    but fight them at near enough the same level that you did when you first levelled.

    Its great.

  • KhinRuniteKhinRunite ManilaPosts: 879Member
    Originally posted by Mannish
    Originally posted by KhinRunite
    Originally posted by Mannish
    Originally posted by KhinRunite

    Man, was I intentionally skipped by Mannish? :D

    I don't recall playing a MMO where mobs don't drop crafting materials. That includes the current FFXIV. Not sure about 2.0 though.

    Also, is there no player boosting going on in any MMO you've played? Have you never experienced this before?

     

    Read my last 2 post and you will see I addressed your concerns also. You did say something about ganking lowbies but Guild Wars 2 is not a pvp game. I am talking about how it should work in Guild Wars 2.

    I had to read up on EQ2 mentoring as you brought it up multiple times. I think it's a nice system. Also I can't find anything being said about player boosting (e.g. giving low levels uber heals so he can take more mobs than he normally can, and monopolize a spawn area). It's not as widespread as the crafting issue though.

    I think this could equally work for GW2. Don't give rewards to unadjusted players. But I think ANet is simply proofing the game from the potential menaces that would pass by an area aiming for that vista or POI, run accross a DE, and decides to  do a AOE that one shots them. That'll ruin the entire experience for the ones actually doing the DE. It's nice if people won't do this, but it's nicer that people can't actually do this. In the first place the downscaling isn't that bad. You're still overpowered, just not Godlike.

     

    If they attack DE mobs then they get a penalty for doing it. I am not sure how they should do it but I know that it should be by choice. As one poster said choice is always better then being forced.

     

    In that case it's going to have choices "for the sake of having choices". The underlying issue (trivializing content for low level players, making low level content obsolete) is only half solved. GW2 still has the better execution in my book. It ensures that gamers are protected from random people who would otherwise choose to ruin their experience, regardless of how many penalties put in place (people do this, just not as widespread as farmers). Additionally if those who would choose not to delevel are going to be penalised, or be limited by special rules, then the choice not to delevel is only superficial and not worth having there. But as I stated, I wish they made delevelling optional for Personal Story.

    Also I disagree that "having choices are always better than being forced". In an ideal world, maybe. But not in our world (or in a MMO in this case).

  • CelusiosCelusios Denver, COPosts: 340Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Drachasor
    Originally posted by Celusios

    The system isn't bad, it's just the fact its forced. Many of us enjoy outleveling an area and killing mobs there with the swing of our sword. While others find this lame and boring and as such respect this scaled leveling system. I happen to be someone who likes to outlevel a dungeon and be able to 1 man it or help a group of players (AC is overpowered as hell!!!) that need it.

     

    So in short, i'd propose to ANet to make it fully optional. There is no world PVP so I do not see this being an issue besides events which would STILL benefit lower level players because its not based on who gets the last shot in.

    If it is optional, then high levels would ruin the challenge for anyone around them.  That mucks up the gameplay and learning how to deal with events and tougher enemies as the difficulty slowly ramps up.  It also ruins the fun for a lot of players when someone comes in and kills the challenge.  Further, a higher level player doing massive damage makes it far, far more likely that the people of the proper level won't get gold credit on events, which would essentially be a form of griefing.

    Down leveling has to be enforced all the time for this reason.  To say nothing of how bizarre it would be in terms of immersion to be able to switch such a system on and off.

    And when talking about dungeons and other difficult things, it severely cheapens the rewards when you can outlevel the content.

    Being able to avoid down level would just be a horrible idea.  Period.

    It's not a horrible idea. As much as I respect and see the point you are making I just have to strongly disagree. All this down scaling system implies is that you never can become stronger than the weaker oppontents. You can move on to fighting dragons and beating them then come back to some little skritts that are pathetic and have damaged caused.

    I can see it messing up events, so I will edit my statement about optional. In events it should be enforced, as I totally agree with your point that it will stop other players from getting gold. However for instances I do NOT agree with down scaling as if I find a dungeon harder and I want to out level it and clear it to see a story, then so be it. It's not hurting anyone.

    So in response, the only time I can see it being enforced is in events in which it can unwillingly damage other players experience and ruin their leveling.

  • loulakiloulaki PatrasPosts: 918Member
    Originally posted by swtorfan

    What is everyone's thought on the Down Leveling?

     

    My opinion is it sucks.. Everyone has a right to feel the way they feel but when i have a very hard time doing quest and go out to level up one more level just to go back to finish a hard quest to find out i am being down leveled that really pissed me off and that is why i have stopped playing for now.

    Not that i hate the game because it is a nice game just not the type of game for me.

     

    So what is everyone's opinion on the down leveling?

    hey man you go at lvl1 area and you unleash your elite skill and you have a weapon with uber sigils and you pown mobs with 2 hits whats your problem ?

    image

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by swtorfan

    So what is everyone's opinion on the down leveling?

    I've always believed the scalability of player levels (via Sidekick/Exemplar) was the single most brilliant feature of CoH.

    (The one that WoW should have copied from an earlier game, but didn't have time to).  7 years later, Blizzard actually began to tease their players with scalable difficulty levels--just barely, and far too late.

    It eliminates sooooo many more design issues than it creates.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • MeowheadMeowhead New Carlisle, INPosts: 3,716Member

    People who want really high level characters to be stronger than weak monsters, are missing that they ARE stronger.  Just not as much stronger as if they were full level 80 without being downleveled.

    It's actually MORE realistic (Insofar as fantasy goes) that way.

    Think about it, no matter how powerful a character in a fantasy novel gets (Short of the true demigod sorts, who ascend to a whole new level of power), that doesn't mean they can pick their nose and walk around naked next to bandits.

    A character who can beat a dragon isn't suddenly completely invulnerable to all lesser things hurting them.

    (Yet that doesn't mean that a farmer who can0 beat a bandit - like a knight - can beat a dragon just like a knight can).

    A level 80 who can't come around and smack the crap out of lower level people with their superior skill and practice, well... dunno what to say.  Learn to play, I guess.  The idea they should be able to literally afk while a bear tries to eat their face, that just seems wierd and completely unnatural to me. :P

  • xkorpioxkorpio ValenciaPosts: 38Member
    Originally posted by Thillian

    It kills the entire point of RPG system, i.e., improving your character and feeling the growth of your powers compared the environment and PvE. 

    If the difficulty scales to your power, there is no need to have RPG system in place. 

    People who like it are generally coming from the FPS games.

    People who dislike it are generally coming from the RPG genre.

    I'm a heavy RPG gamer (online and pen&paper) and loves this system, I always thought that a character CANT be so powerful than some places in the world are just a walk in the park, an orc with a greataxe should be something more than "5 level warrior" that you can slam with a swing of your bare hands.

    The improvement feeling comes throught the skill points, the gear, the wide amount of skills you have available at a higher level, so I greatly support this downleveling.

  • xkorpioxkorpio ValenciaPosts: 38Member
    Originally posted by Celusios
    Originally posted by Drachasor
    Originally posted by Celusios

    The system isn't bad, it's just the fact its forced. Many of us enjoy outleveling an area and killing mobs there with the swing of our sword. While others find this lame and boring and as such respect this scaled leveling system. I happen to be someone who likes to outlevel a dungeon and be able to 1 man it or help a group of players (AC is overpowered as hell!!!) that need it.

     

    So in short, i'd propose to ANet to make it fully optional. There is no world PVP so I do not see this being an issue besides events which would STILL benefit lower level players because its not based on who gets the last shot in.

    If it is optional, then high levels would ruin the challenge for anyone around them.  That mucks up the gameplay and learning how to deal with events and tougher enemies as the difficulty slowly ramps up.  It also ruins the fun for a lot of players when someone comes in and kills the challenge.  Further, a higher level player doing massive damage makes it far, far more likely that the people of the proper level won't get gold credit on events, which would essentially be a form of griefing.

    Down leveling has to be enforced all the time for this reason.  To say nothing of how bizarre it would be in terms of immersion to be able to switch such a system on and off.

    And when talking about dungeons and other difficult things, it severely cheapens the rewards when you can outlevel the content.

    Being able to avoid down level would just be a horrible idea.  Period.

    It's not a horrible idea. As much as I respect and see the point you are making I just have to strongly disagree. All this down scaling system implies is that you never can become stronger than the weaker oppontents. You can move on to fighting dragons and beating them then come back to some little skritts that are pathetic and have damaged caused.

    I can see it messing up events, so I will edit my statement about optional. In events it should be enforced, as I totally agree with your point that it will stop other players from getting gold. However for instances I do NOT agree with down scaling as if I find a dungeon harder and I want to out level it and clear it to see a story, then so be it. It's not hurting anyone.

    So in response, the only time I can see it being enforced is in events in which it can unwillingly damage other players experience and ruin their leveling.

    If you check your power at higher level, you can notice that you efectively are stronger, the point behind the downleveling is that you are not AMAZINGLY SUPER INCREDIBLE POWERFUL, you are simply stronger, but  still going to have a hard time agains several oponents or veteran/elite ones.

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