Originally posted by Aerowyn one of the games best features IMHO.. keeps all content relevant and any future content releveant.. say in 6 months they add a new level 30 dungeon well guess what my level 80 can go their and still have a challenge.. for me it's one of the best things about this game... oh also helping out my friends of lower level and not facerolling everything is nice as well..:)
same here gives game much more to do at cap since you can revisit etc
Originally posted by Mannish They should have done what FFXIV Reborn is doing and thats giving you the option to down level when you want to down level. Good idea but like many others poorly executed.
Not sure I agree. A person who chose not to downlevel can still trivialize content for lowbies who are not inherently playing cooperatively with him. Unless FFXIV has a system in place to prevent this, it's still a poor execution.
In any mmo high levels can go to the low level area if they choose and trivialize content for lower levels but they dont do it. They dont because they gain nonthing from doing it. Having the choice is just better. Everquest 2's system is similar.
They dont? Please people have been griefing low level players since the day I started Ultima Online. To say people do not go and do it is ignoring reality. In games where it can be done it has been done. Its the reason i quit Lineage 2 the first week I started. I could not even play in the starter area without being griefed by higher level characters.
This system is great for me because when I want to join my brohter I am not forced to keep a character at his level. All my characters can be his level.
You are talking about an Open PVP game and thats the way they should be and always have been. Guild Wars 2 is a PVE game and like I have said over and over if you make it to were high level players gain nonthing from killing low level mobs then thats all there is to it. Is this really that hard to understand?
People DO go to lower level zones and kill the mobs there. It definitely happens. I've done it in WoW and I've seen lots of other people do it. I mean heck, if people didn't do it, why would they complain about being deleveled? It would NEVER significantly affect them if they weren't going to lower level zones and slaughtering the mobs.
More importantly, it would muck up the entire balance and fun of encounters for lower level players in GW2. A DE comes along, someone one shots all the bad guys. This would be even more likely to happen against big bosses in those zones. They are the only ones that get credit because he did too much damage too quickly. It would open an avenue of griefing (intentional or not) that is simply not desirable. And even if others did manage to get credit, it still ruins the challenge which ruins fun.
It also certainly messes with immersion if you have people that can make difficulties in all lower zones trivial.
There's no reason to let high level players keep their level and then start designing methods to keep them from ever using the fact they keep their level. What the heck is the point of that from a game design perspective? It's shooting yourself in the foot, that's what.
You say they do and I say they dont. Like I said show me a forum post from any game to where people brought this up and being an issue.
In my first post i said that i do understand that Anet is limited to the forced dlvl cause of the way there world works.
However they could have add an option to dlvl to the zone if you want to and only if the option is on can you attack DE mobs if you are too high lvl they should just be blocked for you.
That way evewryone could get whatever he wants certainly better than beeing forced to play just 1 way 1 very limited way
And what the heck is the point of such a system?
The problem with all this "optional deleveling" ideas is that pretty quick you have to take on all this increasingly bizarre and cumbersome fixes so that it does ruin the game for the other players. To the point where there's no point in even having it be an option because essentially you'll be making it so they can't do anything in the zone.
Originally posted by Mannish They should have done what FFXIV Reborn is doing and thats giving you the option to down level when you want to down level. Good idea but like many others poorly executed.
Not sure I agree. A person who chose not to downlevel can still trivialize content for lowbies who are not inherently playing cooperatively with him. Unless FFXIV has a system in place to prevent this, it's still a poor execution.
In any mmo high levels can go to the low level area if they choose and trivialize content for lower levels but they dont do it. They dont because they gain nonthing from doing it. Having the choice is just better. Everquest 2's system is similar.
Lol? "oh guldies I can't kill this nasty elite, come help me!"
your posts are a constant source of entertainment. Is there really no game you can go play instead of inhabiting the gw2 forums, a game you clearly don't like? I say this foryou, you'd probably be happier in the long run!
So beeing able to choose how to overccome the Elite is a bad thing?
I think freedom of choice always wins over a forced playstyle.
Thing is, whose freedom of choice?
Maybe you're a high level character that's helping a guildie powerlevel by killing all mobs of a DE... but at the same time maybe there's a low level guy playing the game for the first time looking forward to an epic fight against the army of invading bandits... until a high level guy comes in, drops an AoE and boom, all bandits are dead, event over.
^ in most other MMOs quests are basic have no real interaction with other players you aren't grouped with so it doesn't matter if Max level players can run a rampage in lower level zones(well it doesn't effect the quests that is) In this game it would totally destroy the DE system Anet has built and make it pointless.. This games PVE would not work without the downleveling as you can see it was designed specifically for it.
Just not true
Like i saidf if only ppl under the effect of the lvl scaling could interact with DEs all would work out perfectly.
Originally posted by Mannish They should have done what FFXIV Reborn is doing and thats giving you the option to down level when you want to down level. Good idea but like many others poorly executed.
Not sure I agree. A person who chose not to downlevel can still trivialize content for lowbies who are not inherently playing cooperatively with him. Unless FFXIV has a system in place to prevent this, it's still a poor execution.
In any mmo high levels can go to the low level area if they choose and trivialize content for lower levels but they dont do it. They dont because they gain nonthing from doing it. Having the choice is just better. Everquest 2's system is similar.
Lol? "oh guldies I can't kill this nasty elite, come help me!"
your posts are a constant source of entertainment. Is there really no game you can go play instead of inhabiting the gw2 forums, a game you clearly don't like? I say this foryou, you'd probably be happier in the long run!
So beeing able to choose how to overccome the Elite is a bad thing?
I think freedom of choice always wins over a forced playstyle.
Thing is, whose freedom of choice?
Maybe you're a high level character that's helping a guildie powerlevel by killing all mobs of a DE... but at the same time maybe there's a low level guy playing the game for the first time looking forward to an epic fight against the army of invading bandits... until a high level guy comes in, drops an AoE and boom, all bandits are dead, event over.
In my first post i said that i do understand that Anet is limited to the forced dlvl cause of the way there world works.
However they could have add an option to dlvl to the zone if you want to and only if the option is on can you attack DE mobs if you are too high lvl they should just be blocked for you.
That way evewryone could get whatever he wants certainly better than beeing forced to play just 1 way 1 very limited way
For someone who keeps talking about freedom of choice you do not seem very familiar with how it works. Your idea here of allowing me to not downlevel but then making all DE mobs non attackable has removed all choices for me as well. Or do you not see the irony in wanting freedom of choice and then taking all the choices and options away?
People DO go to lower level zones and kill the mobs there. It definitely happens. I've done it in WoW and I've seen lots of other people do it. I mean heck, if people didn't do it, why would they complain about being deleveled? It would NEVER significantly affect them if they weren't going to lower level zones and slaughtering the mobs.
More importantly, it would muck up the entire balance and fun of encounters for lower level players in GW2. A DE comes along, someone one shots all the bad guys. This would be even more likely to happen against big bosses in those zones. They are the only ones that get credit because he did too much damage too quickly. It would open an avenue of griefing (intentional or not) that is simply not desirable. And even if others did manage to get credit, it still ruins the challenge which ruins fun.
It also certainly messes with immersion if you have people that can make difficulties in all lower zones trivial.
There's no reason to let high level players keep their level and then start designing methods to keep them from ever using the fact they keep their level. What the heck is the point of that from a game design perspective? It's shooting yourself in the foot, that's what.
You say they do and I say they dont. Like I said show me a forum post from any game to where people brought this up and being an issue.
It happens in WoW. People go their for achievements and to help out friends. The exact same thing would happen in GW2 but the effect would be even worse.
But that doesn't matter. We have two options.
1. High Level players DO go to lower level zones and kill things.
2. High Level players never go to lower level zones and kill things.
If option 1 is true, then there are major problems with not enforcing downleveling for all.
If option 2 is true, there's no point to having down level be optional, because its effects will never be felt.
So really there's no good to come of having optional down leveling. There's either no point or it causes problems and requires bizarre and unnatural fixes to keep that from breaking the game.
I like the fact that you can't out level the challenge of the content by too much.
You will eventually have better skills and be able to deal with things better but the ablility to become invinceble is a non factor.
I love it. You have to be wide awake in every zone includeing many areas you might think are safe because you just never know when a DE might start and kick your AFK bottom.
Originally posted by Mannish They should have done what FFXIV Reborn is doing and thats giving you the option to down level when you want to down level. Good idea but like many others poorly executed.
Not sure I agree. A person who chose not to downlevel can still trivialize content for lowbies who are not inherently playing cooperatively with him. Unless FFXIV has a system in place to prevent this, it's still a poor execution.
In any mmo high levels can go to the low level area if they choose and trivialize content for lower levels but they dont do it. They dont because they gain nonthing from doing it. Having the choice is just better. Everquest 2's system is similar.
Lol? "oh guldies I can't kill this nasty elite, come help me!"
your posts are a constant source of entertainment. Is there really no game you can go play instead of inhabiting the gw2 forums, a game you clearly don't like? I say this foryou, you'd probably be happier in the long run!
So beeing able to choose how to overccome the Elite is a bad thing?
I think freedom of choice always wins over a forced playstyle.
Thing is, whose freedom of choice?
Maybe you're a high level character that's helping a guildie powerlevel by killing all mobs of a DE... but at the same time maybe there's a low level guy playing the game for the first time looking forward to an epic fight against the army of invading bandits... until a high level guy comes in, drops an AoE and boom, all bandits are dead, event over.
^ in most other MMOs quests are basic have no real interaction with other players you aren't grouped with so it doesn't matter if Max level players can run a rampage in lower level zones(well it doesn't effect the quests that is) In this game it would totally destroy the DE system Anet has built and make it pointless.. This games PVE would not work without the downleveling as you can see it was designed specifically for it.
Just not true
Like i saidf if only ppl under the effect of the lvl scaling could interact with DEs all would work out perfectly.
Seriously its not that hard to figure out is it?
DE's are this games core PVE focus and ecompasses pretty much every part of every zone.. what would you do if you couldn't interact with the DEs? what would the purpose be?
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Originally posted by Mannish They should have done what FFXIV Reborn is doing and thats giving you the option to down level when you want to down level. Good idea but like many others poorly executed.
Not sure I agree. A person who chose not to downlevel can still trivialize content for lowbies who are not inherently playing cooperatively with him. Unless FFXIV has a system in place to prevent this, it's still a poor execution.
In any mmo high levels can go to the low level area if they choose and trivialize content for lower levels but they dont do it. They dont because they gain nonthing from doing it. Having the choice is just better. Everquest 2's system is similar.
They dont? Please people have been griefing low level players since the day I started Ultima Online. To say people do not go and do it is ignoring reality. In games where it can be done it has been done. Its the reason i quit Lineage 2 the first week I started. I could not even play in the starter area without being griefed by higher level characters.
This system is great for me because when I want to join my brohter I am not forced to keep a character at his level. All my characters can be his level.
You are talking about an Open PVP game and thats the way they should be and always have been. Guild Wars 2 is a PVE game and like I have said over and over if you make it to were high level players gain nonthing from killing low level mobs then thats all there is to it. Is this really that hard to understand?
No its not hard to understand, but you think high levels would not go there if they got nothing from kills and I think you are living in a fantasy. High levels would go and ruin low levels because griefing losers are in every game.
Open PvP games that allow top levels in low level starter areas are stupid to me. There is nothing worse than a PVE and PVP game where you cant leave town to the low level area because high levels want to gank level 3s.
If you think high levels going to low level areas in pvp games is stupid then dont play open pvp games. Thats not what I am talking about here. There is no mmo out there to where high level players go to low level areas and kill mobs that they dont get anything from. If they are show me a forum post from any game to where people have brought this up as being a problem.
So my own personal experience in MMOs starting with UO right after came out is not enough, I need a forum post for you? Please. People will grief in exactly the way I said if they can. In GW2 it would be high levels ruining DEs in low level areas and if you think it will not happen you are kidding yourself and trying to kid the rest of us.
Do you people even read the post? I said if they gain nonthing from it. Why would high levels do low level events if they dont get anything?
Originally posted by Mannish They should have done what FFXIV Reborn is doing and thats giving you the option to down level when you want to down level. Good idea but like many others poorly executed.
Not sure I agree. A person who chose not to downlevel can still trivialize content for lowbies who are not inherently playing cooperatively with him. Unless FFXIV has a system in place to prevent this, it's still a poor execution.
In any mmo high levels can go to the low level area if they choose and trivialize content for lower levels but they dont do it. They dont because they gain nonthing from doing it. Having the choice is just better. Everquest 2's system is similar.
They dont? Please people have been griefing low level players since the day I started Ultima Online. To say people do not go and do it is ignoring reality. In games where it can be done it has been done. Its the reason i quit Lineage 2 the first week I started. I could not even play in the starter area without being griefed by higher level characters.
This system is great for me because when I want to join my brohter I am not forced to keep a character at his level. All my characters can be his level.
You are talking about an Open PVP game and thats the way they should be and always have been. Guild Wars 2 is a PVE game and like I have said over and over if you make it to were high level players gain nonthing from killing low level mobs then thats all there is to it. Is this really that hard to understand?
People DO go to lower level zones and kill the mobs there. It definitely happens. I've done it in WoW and I've seen lots of other people do it. I mean heck, if people didn't do it, why would they complain about being deleveled? It would NEVER significantly affect them if they weren't going to lower level zones and slaughtering the mobs.
More importantly, it would muck up the entire balance and fun of encounters for lower level players in GW2. A DE comes along, someone one shots all the bad guys. This would be even more likely to happen against big bosses in those zones. They are the only ones that get credit because he did too much damage too quickly. It would open an avenue of griefing (intentional or not) that is simply not desirable. And even if others did manage to get credit, it still ruins the challenge which ruins fun.
It also certainly messes with immersion if you have people that can make difficulties in all lower zones trivial.
There's no reason to let high level players keep their level and then start designing methods to keep them from ever using the fact they keep their level. What the heck is the point of that from a game design perspective? It's shooting yourself in the foot, that's what.
You say they do and I say they dont. Like I said show me a forum post from any game to where people brought this up and being an issue.
Yes but what you are saying is simply false and goes against the nature of griefing. Pretending this does not happen is your right, getting others to believe you though has zero chance of happening.
Like i saidf if only ppl under the effect of the lvl scaling could interact with DEs all would work out perfectly.
Seriously its not that hard to figure out is it?
And again, what the heck is the point of making it optional if you then cut them out of the game if they don't take it? That's just a pointless "feature" that will only serve to be confusing and needless.
Originally posted by Mannish They should have done what FFXIV Reborn is doing and thats giving you the option to down level when you want to down level. Good idea but like many others poorly executed.
Not sure I agree. A person who chose not to downlevel can still trivialize content for lowbies who are not inherently playing cooperatively with him. Unless FFXIV has a system in place to prevent this, it's still a poor execution.
In any mmo high levels can go to the low level area if they choose and trivialize content for lower levels but they dont do it. They dont because they gain nonthing from doing it. Having the choice is just better. Everquest 2's system is similar.
Lol? "oh guldies I can't kill this nasty elite, come help me!"
your posts are a constant source of entertainment. Is there really no game you can go play instead of inhabiting the gw2 forums, a game you clearly don't like? I say this foryou, you'd probably be happier in the long run!
So beeing able to choose how to overccome the Elite is a bad thing?
I think freedom of choice always wins over a forced playstyle.
Thing is, whose freedom of choice?
Maybe you're a high level character that's helping a guildie powerlevel by killing all mobs of a DE... but at the same time maybe there's a low level guy playing the game for the first time looking forward to an epic fight against the army of invading bandits... until a high level guy comes in, drops an AoE and boom, all bandits are dead, event over.
In my first post i said that i do understand that Anet is limited to the forced dlvl cause of the way there world works.
However they could have add an option to dlvl to the zone if you want to and only if the option is on can you attack DE mobs if you are too high lvl they should just be blocked for you.
That way evewryone could get whatever he wants certainly better than beeing forced to play just 1 way 1 very limited way
For someone who keeps talking about freedom of choice you do not seem very familiar with how it works. Your idea here of allowing me to not downlevel but then making all DE mobs non attackable has removed all choices for me as well. Or do you not see the irony in wanting freedom of choice and then taking all the choices and options away?
Right...because the choice to dlvl or not is not more freedom than not having a choice??
Seriously its hopeless to have a discussion with GW2 fans.
Claiming that having the option to choose how i want to play the zone (dlvl or not) is equal to beeing restricted to just 1 option is just stupid.
People DO go to lower level zones and kill the mobs there. It definitely happens. I've done it in WoW and I've seen lots of other people do it. I mean heck, if people didn't do it, why would they complain about being deleveled? It would NEVER significantly affect them if they weren't going to lower level zones and slaughtering the mobs.
More importantly, it would muck up the entire balance and fun of encounters for lower level players in GW2. A DE comes along, someone one shots all the bad guys. This would be even more likely to happen against big bosses in those zones. They are the only ones that get credit because he did too much damage too quickly. It would open an avenue of griefing (intentional or not) that is simply not desirable. And even if others did manage to get credit, it still ruins the challenge which ruins fun.
It also certainly messes with immersion if you have people that can make difficulties in all lower zones trivial.
There's no reason to let high level players keep their level and then start designing methods to keep them from ever using the fact they keep their level. What the heck is the point of that from a game design perspective? It's shooting yourself in the foot, that's what.
You say they do and I say they dont. Like I said show me a forum post from any game to where people brought this up and being an issue.
It happens in WoW. People go their for achievements and to help out friends. The exact same thing would happen in GW2 but the effect would be even worse.
But that doesn't matter. We have two options.
1. High Level players DO go to lower level zones and kill things.
2. High Level players never go to lower level zones and kill things.
If option 1 is true, then there are major problems with not enforcing downleveling for all.
If option 2 is true, there's no point to having down level be optional, because its effects will never be felt.
So really there's no good to come of having optional down leveling. There's either no point or it causes problems and requires bizarre and unnatural fixes to keep that from breaking the game.
LMAO, again if they get achievments then they are gaining something. The game is designed for that then they should be able to do it. They are playing the game the way it should be played. I am talking about high level players going killing low level mobs and not getting anything from doing it. This does not happen.
Originally posted by Mannish They should have done what FFXIV Reborn is doing and thats giving you the option to down level when you want to down level. Good idea but like many others poorly executed.
Not sure I agree. A person who chose not to downlevel can still trivialize content for lowbies who are not inherently playing cooperatively with him. Unless FFXIV has a system in place to prevent this, it's still a poor execution.
In any mmo high levels can go to the low level area if they choose and trivialize content for lower levels but they dont do it. They dont because they gain nonthing from doing it. Having the choice is just better. Everquest 2's system is similar.
They dont? Please people have been griefing low level players since the day I started Ultima Online. To say people do not go and do it is ignoring reality. In games where it can be done it has been done. Its the reason i quit Lineage 2 the first week I started. I could not even play in the starter area without being griefed by higher level characters.
This system is great for me because when I want to join my brohter I am not forced to keep a character at his level. All my characters can be his level.
You are talking about an Open PVP game and thats the way they should be and always have been. Guild Wars 2 is a PVE game and like I have said over and over if you make it to were high level players gain nonthing from killing low level mobs then thats all there is to it. Is this really that hard to understand?
No its not hard to understand, but you think high levels would not go there if they got nothing from kills and I think you are living in a fantasy. High levels would go and ruin low levels because griefing losers are in every game.
Open PvP games that allow top levels in low level starter areas are stupid to me. There is nothing worse than a PVE and PVP game where you cant leave town to the low level area because high levels want to gank level 3s.
If you think high levels going to low level areas in pvp games is stupid then dont play open pvp games. Thats not what I am talking about here. There is no mmo out there to where high level players go to low level areas and kill mobs that they dont get anything from. If they are show me a forum post from any game to where people have brought this up as being a problem.
So my own personal experience in MMOs starting with UO right after came out is not enough, I need a forum post for you? Please. People will grief in exactly the way I said if they can. In GW2 it would be high levels ruining DEs in low level areas and if you think it will not happen you are kidding yourself and trying to kid the rest of us.
Do you people even read the post? I said if they gain nonthing from it. Why would high levels do low level events if they dont get anything?
Because you can say it over and over but it will not change the fact that people would do it just to grief low levels. You can pretend no one does such things all you want. You can live in a fantasy. I live in reality and I know people would go and kill mobs and DEs just to screw with people. The same type of people who took advantage of the Karma vendor last week are the kinds that would go and screw you over. Do you think this does not happen?
Originally posted by Mannish They should have done what FFXIV Reborn is doing and thats giving you the option to down level when you want to down level. Good idea but like many others poorly executed.
Not sure I agree. A person who chose not to downlevel can still trivialize content for lowbies who are not inherently playing cooperatively with him. Unless FFXIV has a system in place to prevent this, it's still a poor execution.
In any mmo high levels can go to the low level area if they choose and trivialize content for lower levels but they dont do it. They dont because they gain nonthing from doing it. Having the choice is just better. Everquest 2's system is similar.
Lol? "oh guldies I can't kill this nasty elite, come help me!"
your posts are a constant source of entertainment. Is there really no game you can go play instead of inhabiting the gw2 forums, a game you clearly don't like? I say this foryou, you'd probably be happier in the long run!
So beeing able to choose how to overccome the Elite is a bad thing?
I think freedom of choice always wins over a forced playstyle.
Thing is, whose freedom of choice?
Maybe you're a high level character that's helping a guildie powerlevel by killing all mobs of a DE... but at the same time maybe there's a low level guy playing the game for the first time looking forward to an epic fight against the army of invading bandits... until a high level guy comes in, drops an AoE and boom, all bandits are dead, event over.
^ in most other MMOs quests are basic have no real interaction with other players you aren't grouped with so it doesn't matter if Max level players can run a rampage in lower level zones(well it doesn't effect the quests that is) In this game it would totally destroy the DE system Anet has built and make it pointless.. This games PVE would not work without the downleveling as you can see it was designed specifically for it.
Just not true
Like i saidf if only ppl under the effect of the lvl scaling could interact with DEs all would work out perfectly.
Seriously its not that hard to figure out is it?
DE's are this games core PVE focus and ecompasses pretty much every part of every zone.. what would you do if you couldn't interact with the DEs? what would the purpose be?
Maybe i am farming low lvl items for a new craft maybe i just want a map completion or maybe all i wanna do is explore the maps and see what wonders are to behold and if a fun event would start while i do that i could just switch on lvl sync and have fun with it.
Having the freedom to choose is a good thing no matter what you guys try to say
Originally posted by Mannish They should have done what FFXIV Reborn is doing and thats giving you the option to down level when you want to down level. Good idea but like many others poorly executed.
Not sure I agree. A person who chose not to downlevel can still trivialize content for lowbies who are not inherently playing cooperatively with him. Unless FFXIV has a system in place to prevent this, it's still a poor execution.
In any mmo high levels can go to the low level area if they choose and trivialize content for lower levels but they dont do it. They dont because they gain nonthing from doing it. Having the choice is just better. Everquest 2's system is similar.
Lol? "oh guldies I can't kill this nasty elite, come help me!"
your posts are a constant source of entertainment. Is there really no game you can go play instead of inhabiting the gw2 forums, a game you clearly don't like? I say this foryou, you'd probably be happier in the long run!
So beeing able to choose how to overccome the Elite is a bad thing?
I think freedom of choice always wins over a forced playstyle.
Thing is, whose freedom of choice?
Maybe you're a high level character that's helping a guildie powerlevel by killing all mobs of a DE... but at the same time maybe there's a low level guy playing the game for the first time looking forward to an epic fight against the army of invading bandits... until a high level guy comes in, drops an AoE and boom, all bandits are dead, event over.
In my first post i said that i do understand that Anet is limited to the forced dlvl cause of the way there world works.
However they could have add an option to dlvl to the zone if you want to and only if the option is on can you attack DE mobs if you are too high lvl they should just be blocked for you.
That way evewryone could get whatever he wants certainly better than beeing forced to play just 1 way 1 very limited way
For someone who keeps talking about freedom of choice you do not seem very familiar with how it works. Your idea here of allowing me to not downlevel but then making all DE mobs non attackable has removed all choices for me as well. Or do you not see the irony in wanting freedom of choice and then taking all the choices and options away?
Right...because the choice to dlvl or not is not more freedom than not having a choice??
Seriously its hopeless to have a discussion with GW2 fans.
Claiming that having the option to choose how i want to play the zone (dlvl or not) is equal to beeing restricted to just 1 option is just stupid.
[mod edit]
You assume choices are always a good thing, hate to break it to ya, they're not. Even if I did like to one shot wolves in noob areas ths choice would not work with the gw2 system. Ifnyou don't get that there's nothing Anybody in this thread can say tonhelp you. The one area where it could be debatable is personal story as it affects no one else.
Originally posted by Mannish They should have done what FFXIV Reborn is doing and thats giving you the option to down level when you want to down level. Good idea but like many others poorly executed.
Not sure I agree. A person who chose not to downlevel can still trivialize content for lowbies who are not inherently playing cooperatively with him. Unless FFXIV has a system in place to prevent this, it's still a poor execution.
In any mmo high levels can go to the low level area if they choose and trivialize content for lower levels but they dont do it. They dont because they gain nonthing from doing it. Having the choice is just better. Everquest 2's system is similar.
Lol? "oh guldies I can't kill this nasty elite, come help me!"
your posts are a constant source of entertainment. Is there really no game you can go play instead of inhabiting the gw2 forums, a game you clearly don't like? I say this foryou, you'd probably be happier in the long run!
So beeing able to choose how to overccome the Elite is a bad thing?
I think freedom of choice always wins over a forced playstyle.
Thing is, whose freedom of choice?
Maybe you're a high level character that's helping a guildie powerlevel by killing all mobs of a DE... but at the same time maybe there's a low level guy playing the game for the first time looking forward to an epic fight against the army of invading bandits... until a high level guy comes in, drops an AoE and boom, all bandits are dead, event over.
In my first post i said that i do understand that Anet is limited to the forced dlvl cause of the way there world works.
However they could have add an option to dlvl to the zone if you want to and only if the option is on can you attack DE mobs if you are too high lvl they should just be blocked for you.
That way evewryone could get whatever he wants certainly better than beeing forced to play just 1 way 1 very limited way
For someone who keeps talking about freedom of choice you do not seem very familiar with how it works. Your idea here of allowing me to not downlevel but then making all DE mobs non attackable has removed all choices for me as well. Or do you not see the irony in wanting freedom of choice and then taking all the choices and options away?
Right...because the choice to dlvl or not is not more freedom than not having a choice??
Seriously its hopeless to have a discussion with GW2 fans.
Claiming that having the option to choose how i want to play the zone (dlvl or not) is equal to beeing restricted to just 1 option is just stupid.
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Your example was that if you choose not to delevel then DEs would be unattackable. That is limiting your choice to just one IF you want to play the zone. Its your idea and you seem to not understand it. It is hard to debate with a person who does not understand his side worth a damn. I could do a better job arguing your side and my own because I know that making low level mobs unattackable is more limiting that down leveling. You seem not to understand your own idea. But when shown that you are lacking you use the excuse that it is blind defend time.
Originally posted by Mannish They should have done what FFXIV Reborn is doing and thats giving you the option to down level when you want to down level. Good idea but like many others poorly executed.
Not sure I agree. A person who chose not to downlevel can still trivialize content for lowbies who are not inherently playing cooperatively with him. Unless FFXIV has a system in place to prevent this, it's still a poor execution.
In any mmo high levels can go to the low level area if they choose and trivialize content for lower levels but they dont do it. They dont because they gain nonthing from doing it. Having the choice is just better. Everquest 2's system is similar.
They dont? Please people have been griefing low level players since the day I started Ultima Online. To say people do not go and do it is ignoring reality. In games where it can be done it has been done. Its the reason i quit Lineage 2 the first week I started. I could not even play in the starter area without being griefed by higher level characters.
This system is great for me because when I want to join my brohter I am not forced to keep a character at his level. All my characters can be his level.
You are talking about an Open PVP game and thats the way they should be and always have been. Guild Wars 2 is a PVE game and like I have said over and over if you make it to were high level players gain nonthing from killing low level mobs then thats all there is to it. Is this really that hard to understand?
No its not hard to understand, but you think high levels would not go there if they got nothing from kills and I think you are living in a fantasy. High levels would go and ruin low levels because griefing losers are in every game.
Open PvP games that allow top levels in low level starter areas are stupid to me. There is nothing worse than a PVE and PVP game where you cant leave town to the low level area because high levels want to gank level 3s.
If you think high levels going to low level areas in pvp games is stupid then dont play open pvp games. Thats not what I am talking about here. There is no mmo out there to where high level players go to low level areas and kill mobs that they dont get anything from. If they are show me a forum post from any game to where people have brought this up as being a problem.
So my own personal experience in MMOs starting with UO right after came out is not enough, I need a forum post for you? Please. People will grief in exactly the way I said if they can. In GW2 it would be high levels ruining DEs in low level areas and if you think it will not happen you are kidding yourself and trying to kid the rest of us.
Do you people even read the post? I said if they gain nonthing from it. Why would high levels do low level events if they dont get anything?
Because you can say it over and over but it will not change the fact that people would do it just to grief low levels. You can pretend no one does such things all you want. You can live in a fantasy. I live in reality and I know people would go and kill mobs and DEs just to screw with people. The same type of people who took advantage of the Karma vendor last week are the kinds that would go and screw you over. Do you think this does not happen?
But if they could not take part in DEs unless they would switch on dlvl.....
Right...because the choice to dlvl or not is not more freedom than not having a choice??
Seriously its hopeless to have a discussion with GW2 fans.
Claiming that having the option to choose how i want to play the zone (dlvl or not) is equal to beeing restricted to just 1 option is just stupid.
I should not be suprised tho as soon as something is nbot high prais for GW2 everyone just goes in blind defend mode.
Not true at all. You are being quite unfair.
There are things I dislike about GW2 and things I think can be better.
The DL system is not one of them. There are many sound design reasons for it. The entire focus of the game design is to not punish people working together, to make people happy to see another person come over the horizon, etc, etc. Optional DL ruins that, because if it is a high level person coming over the hill, then they can ruin a DE for everyone else (both in difficulty and in challenge). Or they can kill all the mobs around heart that matter. Etc, etc. Loads of problems develop here, even if the high level player doesn't have intentions of griefing, that is what he'd due in the GW2 system (remember, you can't claim enemies, so there's no stopping the high level player from dominating on damage to everything).
So if you have optional DL, now you need fixes to prevent this. As you even suggest, these fixes would essentially lock you out of content. At which point, the questions are:
What is the purpose of such a feature?
What does it add to the game?
Does it add complexity that is unneeded?
Frankly, there'd be little purpose. It would add basically nothing to the game. And it would increase the complexity unnecessarily.
Making a system more complicated needs a justification that makes sense and add to the game. Right now all you have is a proposal that makes the game more complicated, then requires fixes making it EVEN MORE complicated. After the fixes, the point of even having the feature disappears.
These aren't design concerns you can just wish away. They're legitimate and resorting to ad hominem attacks on "GW2 fans" doesn't support your position.
Originally posted by Mannish They should have done what FFXIV Reborn is doing and thats giving you the option to down level when you want to down level. Good idea but like many others poorly executed.
Not sure I agree. A person who chose not to downlevel can still trivialize content for lowbies who are not inherently playing cooperatively with him. Unless FFXIV has a system in place to prevent this, it's still a poor execution.
In any mmo high levels can go to the low level area if they choose and trivialize content for lower levels but they dont do it. They dont because they gain nonthing from doing it. Having the choice is just better. Everquest 2's system is similar.
They dont? Please people have been griefing low level players since the day I started Ultima Online. To say people do not go and do it is ignoring reality. In games where it can be done it has been done. Its the reason i quit Lineage 2 the first week I started. I could not even play in the starter area without being griefed by higher level characters.
This system is great for me because when I want to join my brohter I am not forced to keep a character at his level. All my characters can be his level.
You are talking about an Open PVP game and thats the way they should be and always have been. Guild Wars 2 is a PVE game and like I have said over and over if you make it to were high level players gain nonthing from killing low level mobs then thats all there is to it. Is this really that hard to understand?
No its not hard to understand, but you think high levels would not go there if they got nothing from kills and I think you are living in a fantasy. High levels would go and ruin low levels because griefing losers are in every game.
Open PvP games that allow top levels in low level starter areas are stupid to me. There is nothing worse than a PVE and PVP game where you cant leave town to the low level area because high levels want to gank level 3s.
If you think high levels going to low level areas in pvp games is stupid then dont play open pvp games. Thats not what I am talking about here. There is no mmo out there to where high level players go to low level areas and kill mobs that they dont get anything from. If they are show me a forum post from any game to where people have brought this up as being a problem.
So my own personal experience in MMOs starting with UO right after came out is not enough, I need a forum post for you? Please. People will grief in exactly the way I said if they can. In GW2 it would be high levels ruining DEs in low level areas and if you think it will not happen you are kidding yourself and trying to kid the rest of us.
Do you people even read the post? I said if they gain nonthing from it. Why would high levels do low level events if they dont get anything?
1. To powerlevel friends or other people (in WoW I remember people paying for being powerleveled this way).
2. To gather low level crafting materials to level up crafting professions or to sell in AH (I remember in WoW I made over 2000 gold by leveling up mining from 0 on my deathknight and then selling the ores).
3. Out of boredom
4. To grief lower level players by killing all mobs before they can (I've seen it in on WoW, high level chars using AoE tagging and killing every mob on a quest area before low levels could get to them to grief)
Originally posted by Mannish They should have done what FFXIV Reborn is doing and thats giving you the option to down level when you want to down level. Good idea but like many others poorly executed.
Not sure I agree. A person who chose not to downlevel can still trivialize content for lowbies who are not inherently playing cooperatively with him. Unless FFXIV has a system in place to prevent this, it's still a poor execution.
In any mmo high levels can go to the low level area if they choose and trivialize content for lower levels but they dont do it. They dont because they gain nonthing from doing it. Having the choice is just better. Everquest 2's system is similar.
Lol? "oh guldies I can't kill this nasty elite, come help me!"
your posts are a constant source of entertainment. Is there really no game you can go play instead of inhabiting the gw2 forums, a game you clearly don't like? I say this foryou, you'd probably be happier in the long run!
So beeing able to choose how to overccome the Elite is a bad thing?
I think freedom of choice always wins over a forced playstyle.
Thing is, whose freedom of choice?
Maybe you're a high level character that's helping a guildie powerlevel by killing all mobs of a DE... but at the same time maybe there's a low level guy playing the game for the first time looking forward to an epic fight against the army of invading bandits... until a high level guy comes in, drops an AoE and boom, all bandits are dead, event over.
^ in most other MMOs quests are basic have no real interaction with other players you aren't grouped with so it doesn't matter if Max level players can run a rampage in lower level zones(well it doesn't effect the quests that is) In this game it would totally destroy the DE system Anet has built and make it pointless.. This games PVE would not work without the downleveling as you can see it was designed specifically for it.
Just not true
Like i saidf if only ppl under the effect of the lvl scaling could interact with DEs all would work out perfectly.
Seriously its not that hard to figure out is it?
DE's are this games core PVE focus and ecompasses pretty much every part of every zone.. what would you do if you couldn't interact with the DEs? what would the purpose be?
Maybe i am farming low lvl items for a new craft maybe i just want a map completion or maybe all i wanna do is explore the maps and see what wonders are to behold and if a fun event would start while i do that i could just switch on lvl sync and have fun with it.
Having the freedom to choose is a good thing no matter what you guys try to say
You can do everything you just said while down leveled. The difference is you cant choose to stay level 80 and ruin the fun for everyone else.
Originally posted by Mannish They should have done what FFXIV Reborn is doing and thats giving you the option to down level when you want to down level. Good idea but like many others poorly executed.
Not sure I agree. A person who chose not to downlevel can still trivialize content for lowbies who are not inherently playing cooperatively with him. Unless FFXIV has a system in place to prevent this, it's still a poor execution.
In any mmo high levels can go to the low level area if they choose and trivialize content for lower levels but they dont do it. They dont because they gain nonthing from doing it. Having the choice is just better. Everquest 2's system is similar.
They dont? Please people have been griefing low level players since the day I started Ultima Online. To say people do not go and do it is ignoring reality. In games where it can be done it has been done. Its the reason i quit Lineage 2 the first week I started. I could not even play in the starter area without being griefed by higher level characters.
This system is great for me because when I want to join my brohter I am not forced to keep a character at his level. All my characters can be his level.
You are talking about an Open PVP game and thats the way they should be and always have been. Guild Wars 2 is a PVE game and like I have said over and over if you make it to were high level players gain nonthing from killing low level mobs then thats all there is to it. Is this really that hard to understand?
No its not hard to understand, but you think high levels would not go there if they got nothing from kills and I think you are living in a fantasy. High levels would go and ruin low levels because griefing losers are in every game.
Open PvP games that allow top levels in low level starter areas are stupid to me. There is nothing worse than a PVE and PVP game where you cant leave town to the low level area because high levels want to gank level 3s.
If you think high levels going to low level areas in pvp games is stupid then dont play open pvp games. Thats not what I am talking about here. There is no mmo out there to where high level players go to low level areas and kill mobs that they dont get anything from. If they are show me a forum post from any game to where people have brought this up as being a problem.
So my own personal experience in MMOs starting with UO right after came out is not enough, I need a forum post for you? Please. People will grief in exactly the way I said if they can. In GW2 it would be high levels ruining DEs in low level areas and if you think it will not happen you are kidding yourself and trying to kid the rest of us.
Do you people even read the post? I said if they gain nonthing from it. Why would high levels do low level events if they dont get anything?
Because you can say it over and over but it will not change the fact that people would do it just to grief low levels. You can pretend no one does such things all you want. You can live in a fantasy. I live in reality and I know people would go and kill mobs and DEs just to screw with people. The same type of people who took advantage of the Karma vendor last week are the kinds that would go and screw you over. Do you think this does not happen?
But if they could not take part in DEs unless they would switch on dlvl.....
How would you implement a system like that?... make mobs invincible to high level chars if they're related to a DE?.. what about DE's that happen in areas where the wandering mobs are part of the difficulty, all mobs around become invincible past a certain level difference?.
You assume choices are always a good thing, hate to break it to ya, they're not. Even if I did like to one shot wolves in noob areas ths choice would not work with the gw2 system. Ifnyou don't get that there's nothing Anybody in this thread can say tonhelp you. The one area where it could be debatable is personal story as it affects no one else.
Exactly, choice itself is not a good reason. Choice does not always add to a game.
First, a choice must be meaningful. The fixes that optional DL would require would render it a meaningless choice of "have interactable content" verses "no interactable content."
There are several other factors to consider, but if it can't even pass the meaningful bar, then one can stop right there.
Originally posted by Mannish They should have done what FFXIV Reborn is doing and thats giving you the option to down level when you want to down level. Good idea but like many others poorly executed.
Not sure I agree. A person who chose not to downlevel can still trivialize content for lowbies who are not inherently playing cooperatively with him. Unless FFXIV has a system in place to prevent this, it's still a poor execution.
In any mmo high levels can go to the low level area if they choose and trivialize content for lower levels but they dont do it. They dont because they gain nonthing from doing it. Having the choice is just better. Everquest 2's system is similar.
They dont? Please people have been griefing low level players since the day I started Ultima Online. To say people do not go and do it is ignoring reality. In games where it can be done it has been done. Its the reason i quit Lineage 2 the first week I started. I could not even play in the starter area without being griefed by higher level characters.
This system is great for me because when I want to join my brohter I am not forced to keep a character at his level. All my characters can be his level.
You are talking about an Open PVP game and thats the way they should be and always have been. Guild Wars 2 is a PVE game and like I have said over and over if you make it to were high level players gain nonthing from killing low level mobs then thats all there is to it. Is this really that hard to understand?
No its not hard to understand, but you think high levels would not go there if they got nothing from kills and I think you are living in a fantasy. High levels would go and ruin low levels because griefing losers are in every game.
Open PvP games that allow top levels in low level starter areas are stupid to me. There is nothing worse than a PVE and PVP game where you cant leave town to the low level area because high levels want to gank level 3s.
If you think high levels going to low level areas in pvp games is stupid then dont play open pvp games. Thats not what I am talking about here. There is no mmo out there to where high level players go to low level areas and kill mobs that they dont get anything from. If they are show me a forum post from any game to where people have brought this up as being a problem.
So my own personal experience in MMOs starting with UO right after came out is not enough, I need a forum post for you? Please. People will grief in exactly the way I said if they can. In GW2 it would be high levels ruining DEs in low level areas and if you think it will not happen you are kidding yourself and trying to kid the rest of us.
Do you people even read the post? I said if they gain nonthing from it. Why would high levels do low level events if they dont get anything?
1. To powerlevel friends or other people (in WoW I remember people paying for being powerleveled this way).
2. To gather low level crafting materials to level up crafting professions or to sell in AH (I remember in WoW I made over 2000 gold by leveling up mining from 0 on my deathknight and then selling the ores).
3. Out of boredom
4. To grief lower level players by killing all mobs before they can (I've seen it in on WoW, high level chars using AoE tagging and killing every mob on a quest area before low levels could get to them to grief)
Just a few that come to my mind offhand..
1. Read about what I said about how Lineage 2 handles this.
2. They are gaining something from it and they should
3. This does not happen.
4. Show me a forum post to where people complained about it. If this was an issue WoW would not have become the mmo success that it is today. Nobody is going to play a mmo that they can not level in.
Comments
same here gives game much more to do at cap since you can revisit etc
You say they do and I say they dont. Like I said show me a forum post from any game to where people brought this up and being an issue.
And what the heck is the point of such a system?
The problem with all this "optional deleveling" ideas is that pretty quick you have to take on all this increasingly bizarre and cumbersome fixes so that it does ruin the game for the other players. To the point where there's no point in even having it be an option because essentially you'll be making it so they can't do anything in the zone.
Just not true
Like i saidf if only ppl under the effect of the lvl scaling could interact with DEs all would work out perfectly.
Seriously its not that hard to figure out is it?
For someone who keeps talking about freedom of choice you do not seem very familiar with how it works. Your idea here of allowing me to not downlevel but then making all DE mobs non attackable has removed all choices for me as well. Or do you not see the irony in wanting freedom of choice and then taking all the choices and options away?
It happens in WoW. People go their for achievements and to help out friends. The exact same thing would happen in GW2 but the effect would be even worse.
But that doesn't matter. We have two options.
1. High Level players DO go to lower level zones and kill things.
2. High Level players never go to lower level zones and kill things.
If option 1 is true, then there are major problems with not enforcing downleveling for all.
If option 2 is true, there's no point to having down level be optional, because its effects will never be felt.
So really there's no good to come of having optional down leveling. There's either no point or it causes problems and requires bizarre and unnatural fixes to keep that from breaking the game.
I like the fact that you can't out level the challenge of the content by too much.
You will eventually have better skills and be able to deal with things better but the ablility to become invinceble is a non factor.
I love it. You have to be wide awake in every zone includeing many areas you might think are safe because you just never know when a DE might start and kick your AFK bottom.
DE's are this games core PVE focus and ecompasses pretty much every part of every zone.. what would you do if you couldn't interact with the DEs? what would the purpose be?
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Do you people even read the post? I said if they gain nonthing from it. Why would high levels do low level events if they dont get anything?
Yes but what you are saying is simply false and goes against the nature of griefing. Pretending this does not happen is your right, getting others to believe you though has zero chance of happening.
And again, what the heck is the point of making it optional if you then cut them out of the game if they don't take it? That's just a pointless "feature" that will only serve to be confusing and needless.
Right...because the choice to dlvl or not is not more freedom than not having a choice??
Seriously its hopeless to have a discussion with GW2 fans.
Claiming that having the option to choose how i want to play the zone (dlvl or not) is equal to beeing restricted to just 1 option is just stupid.
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LMAO, again if they get achievments then they are gaining something. The game is designed for that then they should be able to do it. They are playing the game the way it should be played. I am talking about high level players going killing low level mobs and not getting anything from doing it. This does not happen.
Because you can say it over and over but it will not change the fact that people would do it just to grief low levels. You can pretend no one does such things all you want. You can live in a fantasy. I live in reality and I know people would go and kill mobs and DEs just to screw with people. The same type of people who took advantage of the Karma vendor last week are the kinds that would go and screw you over. Do you think this does not happen?
Maybe i am farming low lvl items for a new craft maybe i just want a map completion or maybe all i wanna do is explore the maps and see what wonders are to behold and if a fun event would start while i do that i could just switch on lvl sync and have fun with it.
Having the freedom to choose is a good thing no matter what you guys try to say
You assume choices are always a good thing, hate to break it to ya, they're not. Even if I did like to one shot wolves in noob areas ths choice would not work with the gw2 system. Ifnyou don't get that there's nothing Anybody in this thread can say tonhelp you. The one area where it could be debatable is personal story as it affects no one else.
Your example was that if you choose not to delevel then DEs would be unattackable. That is limiting your choice to just one IF you want to play the zone. Its your idea and you seem to not understand it. It is hard to debate with a person who does not understand his side worth a damn. I could do a better job arguing your side and my own because I know that making low level mobs unattackable is more limiting that down leveling. You seem not to understand your own idea. But when shown that you are lacking you use the excuse that it is blind defend time.
[mod edit]
But if they could not take part in DEs unless they would switch on dlvl.....
Not true at all. You are being quite unfair.
There are things I dislike about GW2 and things I think can be better.
The DL system is not one of them. There are many sound design reasons for it. The entire focus of the game design is to not punish people working together, to make people happy to see another person come over the horizon, etc, etc. Optional DL ruins that, because if it is a high level person coming over the hill, then they can ruin a DE for everyone else (both in difficulty and in challenge). Or they can kill all the mobs around heart that matter. Etc, etc. Loads of problems develop here, even if the high level player doesn't have intentions of griefing, that is what he'd due in the GW2 system (remember, you can't claim enemies, so there's no stopping the high level player from dominating on damage to everything).
So if you have optional DL, now you need fixes to prevent this. As you even suggest, these fixes would essentially lock you out of content. At which point, the questions are:
What is the purpose of such a feature?
What does it add to the game?
Does it add complexity that is unneeded?
Frankly, there'd be little purpose. It would add basically nothing to the game. And it would increase the complexity unnecessarily.
Making a system more complicated needs a justification that makes sense and add to the game. Right now all you have is a proposal that makes the game more complicated, then requires fixes making it EVEN MORE complicated. After the fixes, the point of even having the feature disappears.
These aren't design concerns you can just wish away. They're legitimate and resorting to ad hominem attacks on "GW2 fans" doesn't support your position.
1. To powerlevel friends or other people (in WoW I remember people paying for being powerleveled this way).
2. To gather low level crafting materials to level up crafting professions or to sell in AH (I remember in WoW I made over 2000 gold by leveling up mining from 0 on my deathknight and then selling the ores).
3. Out of boredom
4. To grief lower level players by killing all mobs before they can (I've seen it in on WoW, high level chars using AoE tagging and killing every mob on a quest area before low levels could get to them to grief)
Just a few that come to my mind offhand..
What can men do against such reckless hate?
You can do everything you just said while down leveled. The difference is you cant choose to stay level 80 and ruin the fun for everyone else.
How would you implement a system like that?... make mobs invincible to high level chars if they're related to a DE?.. what about DE's that happen in areas where the wandering mobs are part of the difficulty, all mobs around become invincible past a certain level difference?.
What can men do against such reckless hate?
Exactly, choice itself is not a good reason. Choice does not always add to a game.
First, a choice must be meaningful. The fixes that optional DL would require would render it a meaningless choice of "have interactable content" verses "no interactable content."
There are several other factors to consider, but if it can't even pass the meaningful bar, then one can stop right there.
1. Read about what I said about how Lineage 2 handles this.
2. They are gaining something from it and they should
3. This does not happen.
4. Show me a forum post to where people complained about it. If this was an issue WoW would not have become the mmo success that it is today. Nobody is going to play a mmo that they can not level in.