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I am SICK and TIRED of the "more difficult" crowd

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  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by fenistil

    You argumented many times before that 'WoW is not easy', 'WoW alrady scale diffuicly", etc

    because it has diffrent difficuly sets raids and some heroic dungeons.

    Ok.

     

    You're still stubborndly ignore fact that most people telling in those forums about difficulty, challange, etc mean whole game experience or open world.

    No. They said "MMO is too easy" or "games are too easy". Obviously those statements are wrong. Now if they point out the leveling in WOW from 1-85 is too easy .... that is another story.

    In fact, you are not them, how would you know if they are misinformed, or they are talking about questing?

    And at the end game ....

    1) PvE has difficulty scale, and

    2) PvP BG and arena is never easy obviously.

    And MOST part of the game (like WOW) is played at the end game. So characterizing WOW as easy, while a large part of what people do are not, is not accurate.

    And you never see me argue about "quest leveling is too easy" (except may in D3 ... you will die in hell mode if you are not careful, or not gearing up properly).

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Jemcrystal
    I agree with the OP in this much - don't fix it if it ain't broke.  Fixing your game's glitches - yes.  Dumbing down or hyping up - no.  Let it be the way the creators originally designed it.

    *Some* parts of *some* games are obviously too difficult.

    Examples:

    1) hard mode raiding in WOW, when the raid was first released.

    2) Inferno mode in D3, in the beginning.

    Thus, lots of people complained, and Blizz FIXED them.

     

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,221Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Darkahn21
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by Elikal

    *snip*

    Now this I can understand.  I really wish the story instances could be shared because it would be more fun for me and my son.  He's having a hard tiime with a few and I can't go in an help him.

    I really wish people could choose how they want to approach isntanced content.  If I'm grouped up with my friends or family we don't want to split up solo to accomplish content.  If I'm solo I don't want to stop just because it is supposed to be group only.  For instances the game should adjust to party size automatically and players should be able to choose their difficulty level.

    I've also experienced some crazy repop timers, but I don't hold that against them.  Those sorts of tweaks take time.  I would recommend reporting crazy fast respawns if you think they're game breaking.

    Overall I think you should consider what I and a few others recommended and that is that mez and thief might not be very strong solo classes or fit your solo style of play.  I haven't played them yet, but so far I'm having pretty good luck with both ranger and ele for how I like to play.  Try a couple other classes.  It's just time.

    You can go in and help your son! As long as you are partied together and in the same map (or overflow) then when he goes to enter the instance it will ask you if you would like to join.

     

    To the OP, I'ma  lvl 30 thief, don't find soloing difficult. I use plenty of traps and blinds to help manage the mobs. I think the difficulty is at a nice level. Any easier and it would just get boring and take no skill to do.

    We did have the assisted invite work once.  It was during the Norn 3 round brawl in Diessa.  Maybe it's a little buggy or maybe only certain instances allow this.  It's okay really because it's helping hiim learn some strategy.

  • ScotScot UKPosts: 5,769Member Uncommon

    Sorry but I can only think of one maybe two MMO's made in the last five years that were not easy mode. This is proof positive that the devs do not listen to those who want harder MMO's. If you want to be THE hero read a book where you are the hero or play a solo game that casts you in that role.

    There are other players in MMO's and they can help or hinder you as you progress. I guess the clue is in 'Multiplayer', it is a bit like this forum you don't play on your own here either. :)

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Scot

    Sorry but I can only think of one maybe two MMO's made in the last five years that were not easy mode. This is proof positive that the devs do not listen to those who want harder MMO's. If you want to be THE hero read a book where you are the hero or play a solo game that casts you in that role.

    There are other players in MMO's and they can help or hinder you as you progress. I guess the clue is in 'Multiplayer', it is a bit like this forum you don't play on your own here either. :)

    Hmm .. i *can* be a hero playing MMOs with scripted events. Why shouldn't i?

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper LondonPosts: 2,751Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Scot

    Sorry but I can only think of one maybe two MMO's made in the last five years that were not easy mode. This is proof positive that the devs do not listen to those who want harder MMO's. If you want to be THE hero read a book where you are the hero or play a solo game that casts you in that role.

    There are other players in MMO's and they can help or hinder you as you progress. I guess the clue is in 'Multiplayer', it is a bit like this forum you don't play on your own here either. :)

    Hmm .. i *can* be a hero playing MMOs with scripted events. Why shouldn't i?

    For me in an mmo, you are the "hero", "villain" or just a character that stands out in one way or another dependant upon how you are doing in relation to and in the respect of, the other players.

     

    People who lead and organised the pvp, people who first discovered certain locations, people who provided the best crafting services or dominated the markets. Guilds that made a name for themselves, e-sport players who constantly topped the charts. The people best at their class/playstyle.

     

    In my opinion it is questionable how you can be the "hero" (I hate to use terms like that when talking about games but I mean it purely within the context of games) in a massively multiplayer online game when you simply do a quest/quest line every other Tom, Dick and Harry has done over 9000 times before.

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper

    In my opinion it is questionable how you can be the "hero" (I hate to use terms like that when talking about games but I mean it purely within the context of games) in a massively multiplayer online game when you simply do a quest/quest line every other Tom, Dick and Harry has done over 9000 times before.

    We are talking about games here ... everything is an illusion. There is no real "hero".

    But after you kill the lich king, there *is* a scripted event calling you the hero, right? An ilussion, no doubt, but still you *are* the hero of the land.

    There is no difference in single player game. I am master chief in Halo and it does not matter millions and millions other have done the same. Entertainment is all about illusion anyway.

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper LondonPosts: 2,751Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper

    In my opinion it is questionable how you can be the "hero" (I hate to use terms like that when talking about games but I mean it purely within the context of games) in a massively multiplayer online game when you simply do a quest/quest line every other Tom, Dick and Harry has done over 9000 times before.

    We are talking about games here ... everything is an illusion. There is no real "hero".

    But after you kill the lich king, there *is* a scripted event calling you the hero, right? An ilussion, no doubt, but still you *are* the hero of the land.

    There is no difference in single player game. I am master chief in Halo and it does not matter millions and millions other have done the same. Entertainment is all about illusion anyway.

    I mentioned the fact that I was talking purely within the context of games.

     

    Within a single player, highly scripted game, you are the only protagonist to kill the bad guy and get the girl. Others may be playing the same game, but they are not coexisting within your game world. Within the context of an mmo that is clearly not the case.

     

    A level one story may have an npc call you a "hero", or you could RP a hero to your hearts content. As soon as you step outside of your instance/bubble though, every other fecker is in the same "legendary" gear, with the same titles having killed the same boss, you are part of the crowd.

     

    An mmo though does allow for stand out players within the game world, those are the players who are noted by the community for the reasons mentioned before. People who turn the tide of WvWvW due to their leadership, those helping numerous players to explore the wilds and giving out advice. Those who are noted as infamous pkers etc. Those are the players who come as close to the approximation of "heros" and "villains" within the contect of mmo games. That's the beauty of mmo games above single player games, there are no "real heros" but there are real, stand out players who influence the community of the games they are within.

     

    Ofc is you view mmos as being able to offer nothing more than a single player experience with a chat tab and no longevity value above a couple of months, then you kill all of that (and alot more).

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • ScotScot UKPosts: 5,769Member Uncommon

    [mod edit]

    I quite liked the hero as done by AoC. But being the hero means no one else is the hero. Now as you say we should treat these games as sleight of hand: I log on and play the hero for an hour and then play Mr 3 in the group without pause. But it is playing the hero that means you are on your own, that content is designed to be solo. So being the hero is detrimental to what a MMo is all about, which is multiplayer.

    Now you could design a hero team, you might say in fact that something like SWTOR's separate hero missions they were doing just that. I can think of no other MMO which did separate class quests to top level? But we never did team hero missions, now that would be the best of both worlds, but then you solo guys are going to have to put up with that antithesis of a good evenings gaming…other people. :)

  • ReklawReklaw Am.Posts: 6,478Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Elikal

    Seriously, I so HAVE it had with those people always yelling "MORE DIFFICULT" please. Why are the devs always listen to them? I am really pissed. First The Secret World, which I quit because I died 2000 times. And now with GW2 it is the same again. The difficulty was just right in the late beta, but a few people whined with Esports mentality, some 16 year old action zergers asked for more hardcore, and now beyond level 16 both my Mesmer and my Thief are unplayable. I HATE those people. Why must they always cater THEM? While the world is fully crowded you get along, but play on irregular times, and those classes are a DAMN CHORE. And worse, the story instances are nightmares! I even took a friend along, and we died several times, even had to just ignore some instances, because even with two we simply could not do it, and to hell with levelling, because the DAMN GAME levels you down again, no matter.

    I am so fed up with developers always listen to this hardcore crowd who ruin every game because they need games to be a dick size contest to PROVE themselves!

    Grrrr

    Serieusly Elikal? I mean if developers actually would listen to the "hardcore crowd" don't you think this genre wouldn't be as easy as it is today?

    It's actually the casual crowd that make the majority of people in this genre so in turn the majority of MMO's are really pretty easy, and every now and then there comes a games with alittle more challenge and what do we see.....people complaining it's to hard.

    I use to be all about becoming the best at my ingame profession. These day's I rather not else it makes the gameplay rather boring and sorry just to easy. I actually gimp myself to create my own challenge. Mind you I don't PVP in MMORPG as I pvp in other genre of games.

    If developers would listen to the minority of gamers (hardcore gamers)we most likely have allot more virtual gameworlds aka sandbox type of MMORPG's, allot more freedom and allot more thinking it thru before engaging into battle.

    It seems you've been very spoiled with the easy MMO's of the last couple of years and now you enter a MMO with alittle more challenge and you forget how many easy games there are out there.

    But then again my hope is that you where being very sarcastic as you know for years we have seen most people complain about how complex MMO's use to be and that's the reason why so many MMO's have become so very easy....atleast to get into.

  • DauzqulDauzqul Detroit, MIPosts: 1,408Member Uncommon

    I really can't figure out what is so difficult about any MMO. In my opinion, everything has been so easy to the point where it was boring.

     

    MMOs, in fact, are quite pathetic.

  • TridianTridian Plainfield, INPosts: 274Member
    Originally posted by Elikal

    Seriously, I so HAVE it had with those people always yelling "MORE DIFFICULT" please. Why are the devs always listen to them? I am really pissed. First The Secret World, which I quit because I died 2000 times. And now with GW2 it is the same again. The difficulty was just right in the late beta, but a few people whined with Esports mentality, some 16 year old action zergers asked for more hardcore, and now beyond level 16 both my Mesmer and my Thief are unplayable. I HATE those people. Why must they always cater THEM? While the world is fully crowded you get along, but play on irregular times, and those classes are a DAMN CHORE. And worse, the story instances are nightmares! I even took a friend along, and we died several times, even had to just ignore some instances, because even with two we simply could not do it, and to hell with levelling, because the DAMN GAME levels you down again, no matter.

    I am so fed up with developers always listen to this hardcore crowd who ruin every game because they need games to be a dick size contest to PROVE themselves!

    Umm challenging games are fun. Why out the challenge?

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper

     

    Within a single player, highly scripted game, you are the only protagonist to kill the bad guy and get the girl. Others may be playing the same game, but they are not coexisting within your game world. Within the context of an mmo that is clearly not the case.

    The whole idea of a game world is an illusion. What is a game world is what a dev said so cause the code & data can obviously share machines & hard disk.

    So if you use instance or phasing, you are the ONLY one in that "game world" that kill the lich king and be the hero.

     

    A level one story may have an npc call you a "hero", or you could RP a hero to your hearts content. As soon as you step outside of your instance/bubble though, every other fecker is in the same "legendary" gear, with the same titles having killed the same boss, you are part of the crowd.

    So what? This is no different than go on the Starcraft chat-channel and talk to someone who has finished the campaign. Or go on the D3 chat channel with many who has killed Diablo.

    That is no reason NOT to put some illusion of heroism in instances.

     

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Tridian
     

    Umm challenging games are fun. Why out the challenge?

    Games that are TOO difficult are not fun.

    Case in point, inferno difficulty in D3 when it was first released. People die again, again, again and again. Everyone was fed up. Blizz nerf the difficulty and the game was a lot better.

    Another example. Sunwell. Most (like 98%) just gave up and not even try.

  • FadedbombFadedbomb Aiken, SCPosts: 2,081Member
    Originally posted by Elikal

    Seriously, I so HAVE it had with those people always yelling "MORE DIFFICULT" please. Why are the devs always listen to them? I am really pissed. First The Secret World, which I quit because I died 2000 times. And now with GW2 it is the same again. The difficulty was just right in the late beta, but a few people whined with Esports mentality, some 16 year old action zergers asked for more hardcore, and now beyond level 16 both my Mesmer and my Thief are unplayable. I HATE those people. Why must they always cater THEM? While the world is fully crowded you get along, but play on irregular times, and those classes are a DAMN CHORE. And worse, the story instances are nightmares! I even took a friend along, and we died several times, even had to just ignore some instances, because even with two we simply could not do it, and to hell with levelling, because the DAMN GAME levels you down again, no matter.

    I am so fed up with developers always listen to this hardcore crowd who ruin every game because they need games to be a dick size contest to PROVE themselves!

    Grrrr

    Equally, I too have had it with people screaming "I WANT EVERYTHING HANDED TO ME!". They've completely taken over the industry and dumbed it down to near IQ straining levels.

    I'm tired of pressing a button and killing 20 mobs before my quest has even begun.

    I'm also horribly fed up with developers listening to the "Lowest Common Denominator" crowd who ruin every game because they need games to be their alternative form of TV, but with self-centric involvement from their own two hands to feel like they're part of that "TV show on rails".

    The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
    Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.

  • DignaDigna City, CTPosts: 2,014Member Uncommon
    I don't see how anyone could find GW2 hard.... Perhaps the WvW stuff primarily because the 'mass zerg' gets you killed frequently but overall. No.
  • DauzqulDauzqul Detroit, MIPosts: 1,408Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Tridian
     

    Umm challenging games are fun. Why out the challenge?

    Games that are TOO difficult are not fun.

    Case in point, inferno difficulty in D3 when it was first released. People die again, again, again and again. Everyone was fed up. Blizz nerf the difficulty and the game was a lot better.

    Another example. Sunwell. Most (like 98%) just gave up and not even try.

     

    Your example is actually a very poor one. Blizzard even stated that they knew Inferno was going to be too difficult. They wanted to see how hard it was to progress and adjust it accordingly.

    I've never played a MMO that was too hard. In fact, they have all been too easy.

  • dave6660dave6660 New York, NYPosts: 2,543Member Uncommon

    There's been numerous examples of mmorpg difficulty being adjusted downward.  Has any mmorpg had it's difficulty adjusted upward?

    I have a really hard time believing anyone is listening to the so called "more difficult" crowd.  In fact, just the opposite.

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • thexratedthexrated OuluPosts: 1,368Member Common

    Not everyone is interested in theorycrafting and are quite happy to copy the latest cookie-cutter builds. I think the philosophy that Blizzard seemed to employ in vanilla WoW was pretty good. The gameplay very easy to get into, but hard to master. The latter means that only very small percentage of players managed clear the end-game content before the first expansion. The difficulty was there for those who wanted, they were able to witness unique content and feel accomplished. This has been watered down since TBC.

    Later, most guilds managed to clear the content in the normal mode and still see the content. The sense of accomplished was not the same as you got when you were one of the very few guilds to have killed a certain boss in vanilla. This is about making the content more accessable, but in fact it is about making it easier. I raided a lot in vanilla WoW and TBC, but I really hated the whole normal vs. heroic concept. In my opinion, it is simply lazy development. I preferred the harder content.

    "The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."

  • MindTriggerMindTrigger La Quinta, CAPosts: 2,596Member
    Originally posted by Elikal

    Seriously, I so HAVE it had with those people always yelling "MORE DIFFICULT" please. Why are the devs always listen to them? I am really pissed. First The Secret World, which I quit because I died 2000 times. And now with GW2 it is the same again. The difficulty was just right in the late beta, but a few people whined with Esports mentality, some 16 year old action zergers asked for more hardcore, and now beyond level 16 both my Mesmer and my Thief are unplayable. I HATE those people. Why must they always cater THEM? While the world is fully crowded you get along, but play on irregular times, and those classes are a DAMN CHORE. And worse, the story instances are nightmares! I even took a friend along, and we died several times, even had to just ignore some instances, because even with two we simply could not do it, and to hell with levelling, because the DAMN GAME levels you down again, no matter.

    I am so fed up with developers always listen to this hardcore crowd who ruin every game because they need games to be a dick size contest to PROVE themselves!

    Grrrr

    See, the problem with your theory is that those games aren't 'more difficult'.  TSW is a little rough at first if you spec your  character out wrong (and Funcom is adding intermediate Decks now to help solve that problem), but the reason you died was because you did it wrong.

    Frankly, I don't know how you are dying a lot in GW2 at all. The only thing you should be doing really, is moving around in combat to help avoid getting hit.  Using both of your weapon sets will yield more DPS as well, but other than those two things, I haven't seen anything even remotely difficult about it.

    Seriously though, if you need your game to be easier than GW2, you should probably be playing Farmville.  This is one of the friendliest and most accessible MMO games ever made.

    A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  • SnarlingWolfSnarlingWolf Thereiam, ARPosts: 2,697Member

    So basically this thread has shown that only a couple of people feel things are too hard and EVERYONE ELSE thinks they are too easy and moving in the wrong direction.

     

    That is proof enough that games are too easy and need to get harder.

     

    Asheron's Call just had a big patch and added a new zone/quest line that was very very tough. You know what players did? They went to the forums and thanked the devs for adding something hard back into the game and how much fun it was to try to get through this quest line and see the whole group die.

     

    Games need to be tougher, MMOs even more so.

  • DSWBeefDSWBeef phoenix, AZPosts: 791Member
    Im sorry but i cant take anyone seriously when they think TSW and GW2 is hard. [mod edit]

    Playing: War Thunder, World of Warcraft, and Grim Dawn
    Waiting on:Everquest Next and The Black Desert

  • MeridionMeridion HeidelbergPosts: 1,490Member
    thief Run Dual daggers and Dual guns and you'll be fine. just pull combat stealth like mad and use backstabs a lot... id youre outnumbered.. stealth
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by mmoDAD
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Tridian
     

    Umm challenging games are fun. Why out the challenge?

    Games that are TOO difficult are not fun.

    Case in point, inferno difficulty in D3 when it was first released. People die again, again, again and again. Everyone was fed up. Blizz nerf the difficulty and the game was a lot better.

    Another example. Sunwell. Most (like 98%) just gave up and not even try.

     

    Your example is actually a very poor one. Blizzard even stated that they knew Inferno was going to be too difficult. They wanted to see how hard it was to progress and adjust it accordingly.

    I've never played a MMO that was too hard. In fact, they have all been too easy.

    Did you play Sunwell back in WOW BC? That is considered too hard by most, since only 2% did it.

    Now Blizz did adjust raid difficulty after that.

  • SirFubarSirFubar SeoulPosts: 397Member
    Originally posted by Elikal

    Seriously, I so HAVE it had with those people always yelling "MORE DIFFICULT" please. Why are the devs always listen to them? I am really pissed. First The Secret World, which I quit because I died 2000 times. And now with GW2 it is the same again. The difficulty was just right in the late beta, but a few people whined with Esports mentality, some 16 year old action zergers asked for more hardcore, and now beyond level 16 both my Mesmer and my Thief are unplayable. I HATE those people. Why must they always cater THEM? While the world is fully crowded you get along, but play on irregular times, and those classes are a DAMN CHORE. And worse, the story instances are nightmares! I even took a friend along, and we died several times, even had to just ignore some instances, because even with two we simply could not do it, and to hell with levelling, because the DAMN GAME levels you down again, no matter.

    I am so fed up with developers always listen to this hardcore crowd who ruin every game because they need games to be a dick size contest to PROVE themselves!

    Grrrr

    Seriously I can only laugh at this. You do understand that 99% of the time, its the exact opposite? Devs nearly ever listen to the "hardcore" crowd, they prefer the listen to the casual noobs whining about the game being too hard for them because that's where the money is. Games have been dumbed down for the past 10 years or so... Maybe you should just learn how to play properly? Or maybe MMO's just aren't made for you? I don't understand the logic behind not wanting to have some challenge in our games. Do you find it fun to play a game when there's no challenge? I know I don't, because owning the same noobs or mobs over and over again without any difficulties isn't fun at all. That's the problem with MMO's, population is filled with 1/4 of good players and 3/4 of noobs who don't have a clue how to play and are so casual that they don't like to spend their time to learn to play, prefer to whine about a game being too hard and want their EZ mode back.

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