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Will GW2 avoid the same fate as SWTOR?

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  • Bama1267Bama1267 Waterloo, NYPosts: 1,847Member
    Originally posted by Paddyspub

     

    Been playing GW2 since EA on the 25th and imo it is much, much, much, much more polished game with a beautiful world, interesting races, interactive pvp,  the game engine isnt absolute trash,  launches with basic features and then some,  AH isnt horrid  (ok, so it is down alot, though, which is annoying).  GW2 has all this and more and its F2P.   So the game has started out strong but so did SWTOR, but then again, game had so much hype that, I think, alot of people were blinded and didnt see how flawed the game was.  I personally, dont think GW2 will poop out like SWTOR did.    GW2 is #1 or #2 on the xfire chart, so that is a good sign.   Hopefully we finally have a good alternative to go to for something different instead of Wow, and wont be another AoC, Aion, Warhammer, Rift, TSW, SWTOR. 

    It is already F2P ...... It wont do any worse.

  • KorususKorusus Auburn, ALPosts: 831Member

    It's the little things.  As someone who actually did enjoy SWTOR while the storyline lasted, I can see that there is a total night and day when you're dealing with a developer who has MMO experience.  There's so many quality of life things in Guild Wars 2 that it makes you sit and scratch your head and wonder...is EAware lazy?  Are they incompetent?  Do they just not care?

    It takes two seconds before you realize that SWTOR's world is dead outside of cutscenes where GW2's world is full of life, there's constantly stuff happening, mobs aren't just standing in groups of 1 to 3 waiting to get pulled.  People are moving.  DE's are going off all over the place.  There's chat bubbles and armor dying, did I mention that?  EAware will eventually figure the chat bubbles out I'm sure (bwwahahahahahhaa)

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    Life sucks, buy a helmet.

  • NomadMorlockNomadMorlock N/A, VAPosts: 593Member Uncommon

    I had the highest hopes for SWTOR. With that said GW2 is just a better put together game overall. There are many more varied things to keep players interested over time. Each game system is much more fleshed out than the game Bioware produced with the exception of personal stories. Crafting has more depth, exploration, etc. I could go on and on. The guild tools, achievement systems, etc are far superior to anything Bioware attempted. 

    I think they have actually launched with enough features to keep players content until their first expansion. 

     

     

  • OpapanaxOpapanax Rochester, NYPosts: 973Member

    I can't say it will. All MMO's lose plauers after the locust get done.

    But as far as quality of the titles. I can't see GW2 meeting the same fate as SWTOR

    PM before you report at least or you could just block.

  • DibdabsDibdabs FelvershamPosts: 2,604Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by lucasdeis

    BECAUSE THIS IS STAR WARS!!!!!!!!!!!!

    It's a pretty bland version of Star Wars.  I don't hate the game, but I cancelled my sub to SW and will merely dabble in it when it goes 'fully' free to play later this year.

    My GW2 is in the post and I'm looking forward to playing.  :)

  • GoldenArrowGoldenArrow TurkuPosts: 1,187Member Uncommon

    The game has RMAH system that allows you to buy everything inside the game with real money except some cosmetical rewards which you can buy boosts for.

    I don't see the longevity in GW2 except rolling multiple toons and dinging them through the faceroll easy grind to 80.

    If you however like sPvP and the current WvWvW system you might stick around.

    I'm certainly don't. :)

  • MMOwandererMMOwanderer LisbonPosts: 415Member
    Originally posted by Paddyspub

     

    AoC, Aion, Warhammer, Rift, TSW, SWTOR. 

    How is Rift a fail?

    AOC, AION, WAR, SWTOR are failures. TERA and TSW, well, they seem to be going there, but who knows. Rift is a full sucess for Trion and the it's community.

    Now, on to GW2. It's really impossible to tell the future of the game, as always. It will all come down to how much money boxes make, ongoing profit, number of active players, possible problems in the content (like WVW getting deserted ad boring), lakc of future content, both updates and expansions, etc.

    Will GW2 end up a full failure like WAR, good sucess like Rift, or really big, we have to wait. Beign B2P means very little.

    Also, SWTOR as itself to blame. The really huge probalem for TOR was the budget. honestly, if teh game had been a medium prodcuction cost of 50 million or whatever like most mmorpgs, it would be a sucess. But lack fo initial reveneu and dificulty in on-going development, costed teh game.

    Th efact that GW2 doesn't have the insane cost of TOR (as far as i know) and for the future costs included, it think it will find a good, stable sucess. Wait and see.

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member

    I think GW2 won't see as drastic a decline as SWTOR did...I do think that it will decline a bit though just because the initial "GOTTA PLAY" phase is going to wear off.

    The problem with SWTOR was...IMO, that it had two fundamentally conflicting design decisions that wound up really hurting it.  And they are:

    1.  P2P

    2.  Focus on content with low replayability

    SWTOR is (was?) a P2P game which means that it's supposed to retain people playing it for a long time to make sustained revenue.  But the MAJOR focus of the game was on making story stuff, VO, and animations...and all this stuff is not very repeatable.  You really don't want to watch your story 5000 times.

    So what happened was that the folks that didn't enjoy SWTOR's story stuff left early, and many of the folks that did like it, completed their story stuff and then left because there was nothing else for them to do.

    GW2 doesn't really have this problem.  It has TONS of highly replayable content like...

    1.  The world - Level down-scaling and repeatable dynamic events make the world actually fairly replayable.

    2.  WvW

    3.  sPvP - Separate advancement system and a focus on balanced PvP will make this fairly replayable.

    4.  Dungeons - Explorable modes are hard...and there are a lot to do...you can also grind dungeons for armor if you are into that.

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • EvolvedMonkyEvolvedMonky Tulsa, OKPosts: 549Member
    Originally posted by GoldenArrow

    The game has RMAH system that allows you to buy everything inside the game with real money except some cosmetical rewards which you can buy boosts for.

    I don't see the longevity in GW2 except rolling multiple toons and dinging them through the faceroll easy grind to 80.

    If you however like sPvP and the current WvWvW system you might stick around.

    I'm certainly don't. :)

    I am... never got into raids and gear grinding.  

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  • JakdstripperJakdstripper logan lake, BCPosts: 2,126Member Uncommon

    i think it will simply because it's F2P. if you dont feel like playing GW2 just go play something else and come back later, you don't have to justify a subscription fee. you can go 6 months without playing and then just pick it up right back where you left.

     

  • PonicoPonico Montreal, QCPosts: 650Member

    I really really wanted to love SWTOR but after 3 months, I left. The game was dead, the box mention features that didn't even made it in the game after 3 patches. The world felt dead and extremely static. Sure, once in a while something cool could happen (like the NPC running after a criminal on Tattoine) but aside from little things like that, it was bad. 

    The PVP was good but it wasn't enough to keep me paying 14$ a month. Basically, SWTOR made me lost interest in Bioware. I really believed that they could make something unique and above the crowd but that wasn't the case. 

     

    GW2 feels polished and to me, it was worth the purchase. It has a few flaws but so far, it's nothing that cannot be handle by the devs. Hate it or not, Guild Wars 1 was great and remaning among the tops (I personaly didn't really like it but that's just me). GW2 is doing a fine job at expanding everything by 10 folds and adding a whole new gameplay dimension. What is impressive about GW2 is how everything blends in together. Graphics, sounds, gameplay... everything feels that it was thought out and carefully added to the game.

    Chances are, GW2 will remain strong for a very long time. It has a very solid foundation and things are being fixed on a daily basis. 

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  • KorususKorusus Auburn, ALPosts: 831Member
    Originally posted by Jakdstripper

    i think it will simply because it's F2P. if you dont feel like playing GW2 just go play something else and come back later, you don't have to justify a subscription fee. you can go 6 months without playing and then just pick it up right back where you left.

     

    This is my favorite part about the game.  Oddly knowing that I can just come back and play the game whenever I want and never feel guilty about paying and not playing makes me more willing to give ArenaNet money for cashshop/new content/more character slots etc.

    Vs. SWTOR which is actually take a game I paid full-price for and adding a tons of restrictions to the experience where I either have to pay $15 a month to unlock the full-game that I already paid for...

    If nothing else GW2 is making me rethink a lot of things.  How many MMOs have I purchased over the years that I no longer have access to unless I continue to pay even more?  It's enough to make me sick.  Makes me love GW2 all the more.

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    Life sucks, buy a helmet.

  • gieger808gieger808 Winston-Salem, NCPosts: 165Member
    GW2 will only have the pvp crowd in less than six months. It doesn't have the pve needed to hold the majority of serious pve'ers.
    Great game, having a blast, but it will fall to being just a casual 2nd game to play while on update day for a mmorpg with a more well developed endgame.
  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Yes there's more to do at endgame than grind shit for loot that let's you grind the next lot.

    Also getting there isn't all hubs, corridors and manequins hanging around in perpetual daylight
  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by gieger808
    GW2 will only have the pvp crowd in less than six months. It doesn't have the pve needed to hold the majority of serious pve'ers.
    Great game, having a blast, but it will fall to being just a casual 2nd game to play while on update day for a mmorpg with a more well developed endgame.

    could you define that? what does someone have to do to be consider a "serious" pve'er

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • roo67roo67 londonPosts: 402Member

    StarWars ToR would have done well as a buy to play game . like many mmos that are released under a subscription model the developers delude themselves into thinking they are actually worth it and the games end up failing to get the kind of money they need to survive and end up going to a freemium model .

     You have to also realise though as well an MMO doesn't have to be as big as WoW to be a success .Look at EVE and Rit . Both happly surviving with much less subs . But neither of these games cost as much as ToR did to develop .

    I think GW2 will have some degree of drop off in 6 months or so but I m certain there will be yearly expansion packs to bring back interest in the game .

    I plan to play it along side lotro ( which is totally free to me including expansions as I brought a life time sub for half price 4 years ago ) .

    GW2 is a nice game and it has a lot more scope than ToR ever had . Its no way as good as WoW Vanilla and TBC but I enjoy it more than what WoW is at the moment .

    It wouldn't be worth a monthly sub to me though . But no game really is anymore .

  • KorususKorusus Auburn, ALPosts: 831Member
    Originally posted by gieger808
    a more well developed endgame.

    I think that's the problem that GW2 is at least trying to solve.  Stop letting Everquest's over-a-decade old raid mechanics and WoW's stupid emblem grind dictate your expectations for what an "endgame" is supposed to be.

    All the other MMOs that are trying to provide your idea of an "endgame" are failing, badly.  I don't think ArenaNet is interested in catering to an ever-shrinking play style.

    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by gieger808
    GW2 will only have the pvp crowd in less than six months. It doesn't have the pve needed to hold the majority of serious pve'ers.
    Great game, having a blast, but it will fall to being just a casual 2nd game to play while on update day for a mmorpg with a more well developed endgame.

    could you define that? what does someone have to do to be consider a "serious" pve'er

    I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume they mean" raiders".  DEs give me all the enjoyment of a raid without the hassle of putting up with stupid dragon kill point loot rules and mandatory ventrillo channels.

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    Life sucks, buy a helmet.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,587Member Uncommon

    Wile SWTOR suffered from a lack of content at level cap, it wasn't it's only major problem. It also suffered from many more things. Frankly, it was a p!$$ poor MMO founded an expensive gimmick that failed to pay off.  Content is not  made obsolete by out leveling it. GW2, doesn't feel like there will be a huge transition to a different kind of game once capped at endgame. All content will remain relevant regardless of your level. There is one more thing with GW2. It's also designed so you can put it down and pick it up at any time.

  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member
    Originally posted by GoldenArrow

    The game has RMAH system that allows you to buy everything inside the game with real money except some cosmetical rewards which you can buy boosts for.

    I don't see the longevity in GW2 except rolling multiple toons and dinging them through the faceroll easy grind to 80.

    If you however like sPvP and the current WvWvW system you might stick around.

    I'm certainly don't. :)

    Can't tell if sarcasm or stupidity, apologies for that. The internet doesn't always translate sarcasm well.

     

    Assuming sarcasm but being alert for lurkers trying to understand the game... there's no RMAH of course. The closest to real money interactions would be buying gems and changing them to in game gold, but gold is only one type of currency and not exactly the most desirable in terms of gear, etc.

     

    Really, dude, use sarcasm tags. It helps.

    Oderint, dum metuant.
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  • dynamicipftwdynamicipftw Arrow, ALPosts: 207Member
    Didn't people love SWTOR, D3, TSW etc 10 days after their release? Look where they are now... Give it ~2 months and we can know for sure the fate of GW2.
  • stratasaurusstratasaurus Seattle, WAPosts: 220Member
    My belief is that GW2 will pretty much go the same way SWTOR did in terms of active players.  The game is in its honeymoon stage right now but my guess is most the people that think it is awesome right now will hit 80 in 2 to 3 months and then go away.  There is no real endgame and gear endgame is suppose to be pretty equal.  Also there is not really very much replay value on the game due the class design.  Since most classes have a support weapon, a melee weapon, a ranged weapon, what you get is every class has a huge range on how you can play it but all the classes are really very similar.  Sure there are some differences but not enough to keep people entertained with playing a new class 2 or 3 months in.  Once people start hitting 80 retention on active players is not going to be very high for this one, and I bet lots of people won't even make it 80 before leaving.
  • KorususKorusus Auburn, ALPosts: 831Member
    Originally posted by dynamicipftw
    Didn't people love SWTOR, D3, TSW etc 10 days after their release? Look where they are now... Give it ~2 months and we can know for sure the fate of GW2.

    Sure.  That's because until you hit a wall where there is no longer anything worth doing SWTOR and TSW are great, even amazing, fun, and enjoyable games.  The second you run out of story content both of them crap out.  TSW even faster than SWTOR because TSW doesn't even have alt-replay value.

    Originally posted by stratasaurus
    My belief is that GW2 will pretty much go the same way SWTOR did in terms of active players.  The game is in its honeymoon stage right now but my guess is most the people that think it is awesome right now will hit 80 in 2 to 3 months and then go away.  There is no real endgame and gear endgame is suppose to be pretty equal.  Also there is not really very much replay value on the game due the class design.  Since most classes have a support weapon, a melee weapon, a ranged weapon, what you get is every class has a huge range on how you can play it but all the classes are really very similar.  Sure there are some differences but not enough to keep people entertained with playing a new class 2 or 3 months in.  Once people start hitting 80 retention on active players is not going to be very high for this one, and I bet lots of people won't even make it 80 before leaving.

    The joy here is that even if GW2 loses players due to them having "beat the game" as it were, it doesn't affect ArenaNet's bottom line because they aren't dependent on subscriptions.  Compare that to EAware, TOR is now in serious trouble due to lack of cashflow, it's putting all potential future content in question.

    All ArenaNet has to do is convince players to buy the expansion pack.  Not nearly as difficult as convincing people to stay subscribed month after month after month perpetually running out of new content (which is being generous since most months there would be no new content anyway despite the sub).

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    Life sucks, buy a helmet.

  • thedrakonthedrakon Acton vale, QCPosts: 217Member

    First,

    GW2 is far from SW:TOR

    GW2 .. buy it then .. it's some kind of F2P .. no subscription, can't compare with a subscription base game. You need to pay to unlock a lot of stuff (bank slot, Inventory slot)

    The 2 games can't be compared, GW2 can't go the same road as SW:TOR, no sub fee, how will they calculate the drop ? By server pop ? and then, Oh, we're going F2P ? they already 50% F2P, no sub fee, buy it and play

    On another note, I just left GW2 to go back to SW:TOR. The control feel to clunky in GW2, and no, it's not my PC I've got over 70FPS with max setting.

    And, I never like the GW game system, it doesn't give much place for itemization, might be a good thing for pvp but, I'm not a pvper

  • JonokuJonoku Cool, PAPosts: 645Member
    Originally posted by lifeordinary
    No...... after a month, people will quit paying sub and in second month servers will begin to be merged. Third month Anet will announce that GW2 is going F2P.

    Obvious trolling lolooololol :)

    Looking at: The Repopulation
    Preordering: None
    Playing: Random Games

  • BetaguyBetaguy Halifax, NSPosts: 2,590Member
    Originally posted by Paddyspub

     

    Been playing GW2 since EA on the 25th and imo it is much, much, much, much more polished game with a beautiful world, interesting races, interactive pvp,  the game engine isnt absolute trash,  launches with basic features and then some,  AH isnt horrid  (ok, so it is down alot, though, which is annoying).  GW2 has all this and more and its F2P.   So the game has started out strong but so did SWTOR, but then again, game had so much hype that, I think, alot of people were blinded and didnt see how flawed the game was.  I personally, dont think GW2 will poop out like SWTOR did.    GW2 is #1 or #2 on the xfire chart, so that is a good sign.   Hopefully we finally have a good alternative to go to for something different instead of Wow, and wont be another AoC, Aion, Warhammer, Rift, TSW, SWTOR. 

    Game will sink just like SWToR.... my prediction.

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