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GW2 was my last hope for the genre....... so back to paper and pencil

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  • NBlitzNBlitz ZwollePosts: 1,904Member
    Originally posted by Wraithone

    I wish you all the best.  I'm of two minds here. I quite agree, some of my best memories have been of interactions with other players, over the years. But also some of my worst memories. Its reached the point that I really have no interest in dealing with 95% plus of the gaming population, so being able to play solo has been a bonus.  

    I'm very interested in seeing where MMO's go, as technology advances. Perhaps once VR manages to solve its various problems, and becomes wide spread, we will find more of the group interaction we are looking for.  Until that time, I'll play solo, and I wish you and your friends the very best of  luck and fun. 

    Same as everything else in life, no? You take in the good with the bad. You can't have one without the other, imo. At least, not in this world.

  • JohabohaJohaboha Madison, WIPosts: 20Member

    OP may i have your log in info so i can try it out? :)

     

    Im in the same boat as you but just moved away from all my old DnD friends so i have to connect with some new ones, could take some time.

  • KarahandrasKarahandras Sible HedinghamPosts: 1,674Member Uncommon
    Have to admit I find it a bit odd you were pinning these hopes on GW2 rather than Archage or the like.
  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 20,002Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by RebelScum99
    Originally posted by Syno23
    Did you forget Dungeons, WvW, Dynamic Events, and what not. They all REQUIRE a group. So I dont know what you're talking about buddy.

    You missed the point of the post.  Dynamic Events don't require a group because they scale.  But even if they didn't scale, the grouping is done for you automatically.  So technically, there is no difference between completing a dynamic event and completing a solo quest.  Because you aren't required to do anything to complete it.  In other words, no social interaction is required.  ANET has basically takent all the difficult content in the game, and allowed you to finish it without ever uttering a word to anyone.  

    There is a difference between "group content" and "social content."

    This is the point people miss, what MMO's lost in the last 10 years is not grouping, DF's and other tools such as dynamic events have resolved the problem of finding groups.

    It's the core game design that's been the issue, people are so busy now with the actual "mechanics" of the gameplay there's no time for any real interaction. (except perhaps with your guild via voice comms)

    Face it, the majority of today's MMO players aren't in it for the socialization, they're here to play a game and that's what the developers have been delivering, though I question how well that's really worked out for them.

     

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • dzoni87dzoni87 BelgradePosts: 541Member
    Lol, silly people comparing MMORPG and Pen and Pencil RPG... this forum never cease to amaze me

    Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2
    Waiting for: Pathfinder Online

  • AsgrimAsgrim SosariaPosts: 90Member Uncommon

    GW2 gives you plenty of tools to create strong server-wide communities... that's kind of the whole point of WvWvW. This is a brand new game... if you want a community, you gotta help build it. Stop expecting someone else to hand it to you on a platter.

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 20,002Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by dzoni87
    Lol, silly people comparing MMORPG and Pen and Pencil RPG... this forum never cease to amaze me

    You're too young to remember, your ignorance can be forgiven.

    As the OP said, when the first MMORPG's were created, they shared a lot in common with their Pen and Paper ancestors, but have moved dramatically away from them in recent years.

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • ArthineasArthineas Selinsgrove, PAPosts: 231Member

    I agree with you OP.  The community has gotten a lot worse in mmorpgs these days and I have often thought about just playing pen and paper rpgs myself(I have been playing them since 83).  Especially with all the good virtual tabletops for rpgs, playing a pen and paper rpg with friends that live far away is even possible.

    I originally came to mmorpgs hoping to experience  a PnP rpg experience in a computer game format.  It quickly became apparent that they are a different form of entertainment.  However I still love to play mmorpgs and probably always will.   I go into them knowing that it will never be a deep social experience.  But in order to help with that I play my mmorpgs of choice with my wife and real life friends.  Any other cool people that I meet in game is just a bonus.  

    So yeah if you are only looking for social interaction then PnP rpgs are the way to go.  But personally I find  a lot of value in both kinds of games.  I am looking forward to seeing all the future releases of mmorpgs.  I especially can not wait to hear more details about Everquest Next.

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,912Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Asgrim

    GW2 gives you plenty of tools to create strong server-wide communities... that's kind of the whole point of WvWvW. This is a brand new game... if you want a community, you gotta help build it. Stop expecting someone else to hand it to you on a platter.

    That's a very small part of a typical social oriented design, what about those who do not PVP?

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • HorrorScopeHorrorScope Norcal, CAPosts: 612Member

    First I'm starting to think I can buy a used GW's 2 on the cheap....

    OP what are you thinking of games like Divinity Original Sin? I do look forward to that next year, not a mmo but a Coop RPG with a lot of old-school ideas?

    PnP to me has never been like a MMO. PnP is like entering an instanced dungeon with a small group. That is why I like DDO. However that isn't turn based, so I go back to Original Sin. Also a lot of turnbased games coming via Kickstarter.

    Also interested to see how Neverwinter turns out. Again it will be small groups running instanced dungeons, but that is PnP roots to me.

    Going back to PnP because a mmo doesn't pan out, doesn't equal out to me. PnP isn't mmo'ish imo at all.

     

    Wizards of the coast tried a few years back to make another attempt at actual DnD on a computer. Crashed and burned, never made it out the door.

  • dzoni87dzoni87 BelgradePosts: 541Member
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by dzoni87
    Lol, silly people comparing MMORPG and Pen and Pencil RPG... this forum never cease to amaze me

    You're too young to remember, your ignorance can be forgiven.

    As the OP said, when the first MMORPG's were created, they shared a lot in common with their Pen and Paper ancestors, but have moved dramatically away from them in recent years.

     

    Agree with that statement. Still, PnP will always be PnP. Cant compare nothing with that.

    And i know what old-school MUDs are like. You cant really question my comprehension :D

    EDIT: we arent talking about very first MMOs though. As far as i know GW2 isnt one :O and its far from old-school ones.

    Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2
    Waiting for: Pathfinder Online

  • BeackerBeacker Newbury, MAPosts: 420Member
    Originally posted by teakinator

    Ladies and Gentlemen,

    I have been playing MMOs since Everquest and I have noticed a disturbing trend.  Prior to EQ, those of us that loved the fantasy genre played roleplaying games with dice, paper, pencil and a group of friends.  The game was best enjoyed with a group, all contributing both through their charaacters skills but probably even more importantly through their wit and roleplaying.  The memories of those years of paper and pencil gaming will last me a lifetime and I think of them fondly.

    Of course, as technology allowed our paper and pencil games to move to computer (i.e., Bards Tale, Ultima and Wizardry) and ultimately the internet (Everquest) the games at the beginning of the computer version of the fantasy genre were very similar to paper and pencil gaming as they placed a huge emphasis on grouping for EVERYTHING.  I have played every major MMO since EQ1 and while the game play and graphics are always improving, the PvE part of the games is not in my opinion.  Quests in EQ were hard and long.  EQOA had questlines that took weeks to complete and you needed a group for basically every part of the quest.  EQ2 came out and added a solo-element to the game.  While for me at first this was a welcomed change and allowed me to enjoy the genre without the time sink necessary to have a regular group, I didn’t realize until Guild Wars 2 how much I have missed grouping as a requirement and how much MMOs have changed, negatively in my opinion, since EQ1.

    I will give GW2 great applause for a very polished gameplay experience but what is missing in mind (and RIFT had the same problem) is the community.  No one really chats and there is very little reason to group.  As an old paper and pencil fuddy-duddy from the 1970s what is missing from GW2 (and it is missing from RIFT, WOW, SWTOR, LOTRO and others) is the need to group for more than just raids or dungeons.  Grouping for regular grinding or epic quests creates lots of opportunities for meaningful and prolonged interaction, banter,  which lead to meaningful in-game friendships.With the elimination of a standalone healer class this downward slide away from grouping was the last straw for me. 

    So, to those that I have played with online (Dairith, Qen, Nicci, Windbear, Xerios, Windbear, and Maxpain) thank you for the memories from the EQ and WoW franchise.  As of an hour ago, I have decided that GW2 was the last MMO I will ever play.  I have deleted the game from the computer and actually pulled out my paper and pencil PATHFINDER books and am forming a local group of adults (have 4 so far) and we are going to have the interaction that we hoped could have been achieved from videogames.   So my departure from GW2 (and retirement from MMOs) should not be taken as a reflection on the gameplay, but instead a fundamental flaw in the MMO market--- the lost art of meaningful and longer term interaction with other players.  Prior to my retirement, I choose to play MMOs over Single-player RPG because I desired the company of other individuals to create shared memories, experiences, and friendships.  I have been playing GW2 since beta and found that there is very minimal chatting…. People are just too busy smashing buttons.  Quests are short and travel distances are short… it seems that others who are playing this game just don’t have the same need that I do for the connection with other players.  So farewell MMOs….. I will be slaying my dragons with 4 friends in the same room, a number of cold beers, plastic dice, metal miniatures and graph paper.

    Teak Dharan

    OP: You do realize that since EQ times have changed right? I use to play EQ and everyone typed we even raided by typing and got stuff done in that game. I believe the reason there are not much chatting anymore is because of things like Ventrilo, Mumble and Team Speak. Just about EVERY guild uses it. So people do not often pay attention to text chat. I use to be all for text chat but Vent is just better. For years now I would join a guild and theres tons of people on and barely anyone says anything or hello. I thought at first this was just an unfriendly guild but I soon realized it was not everyone was in ventrilo and interacting there. To play games today you need to use one of these voice programs. Voice makes it more personalized.

    Now I am not sure if you were anti voice or not but really almost any guild has some form of voice chat. All you needed to do was find one that had a lot of people and it would probably fulfill your social gaming needs. As well as make some awesome friends along the way that you may be buddies with for years to come. I know I did. My friends and I met a bunch of games ago and years later we play everything everyone wants. We go to the same guilds and when we don't have a guild we have our own personal vent as well. In general yes I notice you ask in map a question and it is dead silence. Sure it sucks but I guarantee you most of those people are chatting in vent or elsewhere with there guild. If you went to a guild where vent was dead try another one because there are awesome guilds out there that are very active in voice. I am guessing you are a little antisocial or something I don't know. Good luck in your endeavors. You will be back lol for another MMO down the road!

  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,565Member Uncommon

    Op, your first mistake was putting all your mmo hopes into an esport action mmo. Gotta diversify your funds, yo. Wildstar, world of darkness, planetside 2, pso2, repopulation, archeage. Theres always something to look forward to. Gw2 didnt do it for ya? Thats fine theres plenty more on the way.

  • stevebmbsqdstevebmbsqd Orlando, FLPosts: 448Member

    OP, you should try some of the NWN or NWN2 pws. The roleplaying worlds really give that pnp feeling in a 3d environment.

  • BetaguyBetaguy Halifax, NSPosts: 2,590Member
    exactly my sentiment... I have recently gone back to PnP...having a blast.

    image

  • BeackerBeacker Newbury, MAPosts: 420Member
    Originally posted by Foomerang

    Op, your first mistake was putting all your mmo hopes into an esport action mmo. Gotta diversify your funds, yo. Wildstar, world of darkness, planetside 2, pso2, repopulation, archeage. Theres always something to look forward to. Gw2 didnt do it for ya? Thats fine theres plenty more on the way.

    I am stoked for The Repopulation and Archeage. Really can't wait!

  • SouldrainerSouldrainer Elmer, NJPosts: 1,857Member
    Gary Gygax once commented that he could never fully appreciate MMOs, because he said (paraphrasing) that the social interactions would be diminished when compared to actually being in a room with people. I agree with him, too. But also, pen and paper games allow you to literally do anything. You can throw sand in an enemy's eyes, forge a permanent alliance, start your own country, have children, change careers, lose a limb, become possessed, enter another plane of existence, go insane, etc etc etc. MMOs can never compete with that.

    Error: 37. Signature not found. Please connect to my server for signature access.

  • dzoni87dzoni87 BelgradePosts: 541Member
    Originally posted by Souldrainer
    Gary Gygax once commented that he could never fully appreciate MMOs, because he said (paraphrasing) that the social interactions would be diminished when compared to actually being in a room with people. I agree with him, too. But also, pen and paper games allow you to literally do anything. You can throw sand in an enemy's eyes, forge a permanent alliance, start your own country, have children, change careers, lose a limb, become possessed, enter another plane of existence, go insane, etc etc etc. MMOs can never compete with that.

    image

    Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2
    Waiting for: Pathfinder Online

  • JakdstripperJakdstripper logan lake, BCPosts: 2,126Member Uncommon

    i am not an old school mmo player. i did not play UO or EQ, my first mmo was WoW in '05. however i have played PnP D&D and i can understand your craving.

    sadly it is much like looking for that same enjoyment you get from reading a good book from your tv. it's just not the same, one stimulates your immagination and the other captures your attention. it's just 2 different things.

    there is a reason GW2 is F2P and that is it's not a world you live in, it's a theme park you visit when you have some time to kill. it was always going to be that and nothing more.

    don't be too hard on the game, it was never ment for immersion and depth, that's what games like EvE are for.  

  • HorrorScopeHorrorScope Norcal, CAPosts: 612Member
    Originally posted by Souldrainer
    Gary Gygax once commented that he could never fully appreciate MMOs, because he said (paraphrasing) that the social interactions would be diminished when compared to actually being in a room with people. I agree with him, too. But also, pen and paper games allow you to literally do anything. You can throw sand in an enemy's eyes, forge a permanent alliance, start your own country, have children, change careers, lose a limb, become possessed, enter another plane of existence, go insane, etc etc etc. MMOs can never compete with that.

    Silly. PnP could never have 10,000 people sit at a table. This isn't even apples and oranges. I could name things PnP could never do that a mmo could.

    This could be looked at the same craving as "My first mmo", face it yesteryear is always better then the herenow, at least in our memories.

     

  • HorrorScopeHorrorScope Norcal, CAPosts: 612Member
    Originally posted by Beacker
    Originally posted by Foomerang

    Op, your first mistake was putting all your mmo hopes into an esport action mmo. Gotta diversify your funds, yo. Wildstar, world of darkness, planetside 2, pso2, repopulation, archeage. Theres always something to look forward to. Gw2 didnt do it for ya? Thats fine theres plenty more on the way.

    I am stoked for The Repopulation and Archeage. Really can't wait!

    Here we go again. Play it cool and be pleasantly surprised. It will suit you better.

  • MardukkMardukk Posts: 1,556Member Uncommon

    I really enjoy the game but it for some reason is the least social MMO's I've played (and I've played SWTOR and TSW).  Sure you all fight together but the actual communication is almost zero.  Maybe it's the chat colors being a bit different or the NPCs clogging up the chat window...not sure.

     

    Really my only gripe with the game other than the cartoon fantasy setting is the odd lack of communication.  I guess at least in other MMO's they will design areas that are group only or solo crazy challenges.  Oh and the developer lack of communication seems like they are above posting info to the playerbase.  Maybe it's the lack of a sub the devs don't feel like they need to have patch notes.

     

    Overall, though this doesn't bother me as much as it would others as I typically play solo if possible.

     

     

  • roo67roo67 londonPosts: 402Member
    Originally posted by Jakdstripper

    i am not an old school mmo player. i did not play UO or EQ, my first mmo was WoW in '05. however i have played PnP D&D and i can understand your craving.

    sadly it is much like looking for that same enjoyment you get from reading a good book from your tv. it's just not the same, one stimulates your immagination and the other captures your attention. it's just 2 different things.

    there is a reason GW2 is F2P and that is it's not a world you live in, it's a theme park you visit when you have some time to kill. it was always going to be that and nothing more.

    don't be too hard on the game, it was never ment for immersion and depth, that's what games like EvE are for.  

    Agreed . Best post I've seen in a while . You've hit the nail on the head .

  • MardukkMardukk Posts: 1,556Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by roo67
    Originally posted by Jakdstripper

    i am not an old school mmo player. i did not play UO or EQ, my first mmo was WoW in '05. however i have played PnP D&D and i can understand your craving.

    sadly it is much like looking for that same enjoyment you get from reading a good book from your tv. it's just not the same, one stimulates your immagination and the other captures your attention. it's just 2 different things.

    there is a reason GW2 is F2P and that is it's not a world you live in, it's a theme park you visit when you have some time to kill. it was always going to be that and nothing more.

    don't be too hard on the game, it was never ment for immersion and depth, that's what games like EvE are for.  

    Agreed . Best post I've seen in a while . You've hit the nail on the head .

    I also agree 100%.  This type of MMO's is just not going to have immersion or depth and they are really aren't designed for that.   

  • DrachasorDrachasor Columbus, OHPosts: 2,678Member

    I don't know why anyone would expect a PnP experience from a computer game.  None of them ever deliver that.  None.

    Doesn't matter whether the MMO or non-MMO is a sandbox or a themepark or something else.  They don't give you the quality, depth, choice, etc of a good PnP game.  That's always been how it was.  Anyone expecting any MMO or computer game it change that is quite frankly being silly.

    Why you'd give up PnP and go with just video games...sounds like madness to me.

    I do both.

    Anyhow, GW2 does have some problems with the grouping mechanics at the moment.  I'm quite happy with the community however.  It's no different than any other MMO that doesn't force you to potentially wait hours to form a group.

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