Originally posted by Tayah I honestly can't understand why anyone wouldn't think a $15 subscription fee for an mmo they like/love is not worth it. I mean, seriously, it's .50 cents a day to play 24 hours a day if you like. Where else can you get entertainment like that?
I honestly can't understand why anyone would think a $15 subscription fee for an mmo they can get for free is worth it. I mean, seriously, it's free every day to play 24 hours a day if you like. thats where you can get entertainment like that!
Why should I give a company any extra money for a game I bought when others give it for free? I have had more fun in GW2 in 2 weeks than the last year I played WoW, or the few months playing SWTOR...or the entire time I played DAoC. Hell, I would have to go all the way back to playing AC1 for 5 years before finding a subscription game more fun than this game and that is only due to some epicly long PvP duels.
GW2 is going back to realizing what made MMOs special? What planet are you living on? A world that is separated by loading screens, instanced pvp, no player housing/cities, no open world pvp, no crafting driven economy, easy mode game that takes a matter of days for hardcore or weeks for casual to level cap....that is going back to the MMO roots?
I am pretty sure majority of players wouldn't even touch the MMO with features you just described. So i am glad GW2 isn't going back to the roots.
I am willing to accept that I am part of a niche, but that niche is what the MMOs were founded upon. Tell me, why would you not want a more complex and deep MMO?
Almost everything you described has nothing to do with complexity or depth.
You are being puposely obtuse, ignorant, or haven't played a MMO pre WoW. Nobody with any objectivity can say that any AAA release in the past 5 years is more complex and deep than UO, SWG, EQ, Vanguard, or DAoC. You can say it has more scripted PvE content...but that's it, and it lacks any other kind of content.
The opposite of complex and deep is an instanced world with no open world pvp, no player housing/cities, no player driven economy, 6-8 classes that can be leveled in 2 weeks or less.
And so a nail was hit in the head...
I miss the days of Vanguard. EQ and SWG. I miss those days dearly.
I'm having a good time, but I would only pay for as long as its fun... and it would likely be only for a few months.. but because its free I'll likely go back and forth for a bit.
Yes, especially after trying to play this last weekend and having my server lock up due to heavy load. Tons of people were commenting on the terrible lag, so I know it wasn't just my connection.
I can't really complain about the lag because there is no subscription fee in which ArenaNet could obtain more funding to maintain a better quality connection, but I'd prefer a sub or an option to sub if it meant a sure-fire way to get a better in-game currency-to-gem ratio for Gem Shop items, and a more stable connection.
The game is enjoyable enough that I'd be willing to pay a subscription, especially if they could keep the Free-To-Play model for players, but offer an "unlock more content" option if you subscribe.
GW2 is going back to realizing what made MMOs special? What planet are you living on? A world that is separated by loading screens, instanced pvp, no player housing/cities, no open world pvp, no crafting driven economy, easy mode game that takes a matter of days for hardcore or weeks for casual to level cap....that is going back to the MMO roots?
I am pretty sure majority of players wouldn't even touch the MMO with features you just described. So i am glad GW2 isn't going back to the roots.
I am willing to accept that I am part of a niche, but that niche is what the MMOs were founded upon. Tell me, why would you not want a more complex and deep MMO?
Almost everything you described has nothing to do with complexity or depth.
You are being puposely obtuse, ignorant, or haven't played a MMO pre WoW. Nobody with any objectivity can say that any AAA release in the past 5 years is more complex and deep than UO, SWG, EQ, Vanguard, or DAoC. You can say it has more scripted PvE content...but that's it, and it lacks any other kind of content.
The opposite of complex and deep is an instanced world with no open world pvp, no player housing/cities, no player driven economy, 6-8 classes that can be leveled in 2 weeks or less.
and you are the one calling open world PvP and seamless worlds deep or complex. And by the way, EQ had neither (well you *could* flag, but no one did it. You would see one red name a year.)
No, I couldnt force myself to play it if the game was given to me free. I cant play yet another brain dead themepark mmo. It doesnt matter if it has new wrinkles or not, it all boils down to the exact same fecies.
I am done with this genre until a game brings back challenging PvE fights, that take real strategy, and where the players want to avoid death like the black plague. I am feed up with these hand holding games, they are just a waste of time(guess you could say that about any game ), even the majority of people that like this type of game wont get more than 90 days out of this title.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
GW2 is going back to realizing what made MMOs special? What planet are you living on? A world that is separated by loading screens, instanced pvp, no player housing/cities, no open world pvp, no crafting driven economy, easy mode game that takes a matter of days for hardcore or weeks for casual to level cap....that is going back to the MMO roots?
I am pretty sure majority of players wouldn't even touch the MMO with features you just described. So i am glad GW2 isn't going back to the roots.
I am willing to accept that I am part of a niche, but that niche is what the MMOs were founded upon. Tell me, why would you not want a more complex and deep MMO?
Almost everything you described has nothing to do with complexity or depth.
You are being puposely obtuse, ignorant, or haven't played a MMO pre WoW. Nobody with any objectivity can say that any AAA release in the past 5 years is more complex and deep than UO, SWG, EQ, Vanguard, or DAoC. You can say it has more scripted PvE content...but that's it, and it lacks any other kind of content.
The opposite of complex and deep is an instanced world with no open world pvp, no player housing/cities, no player driven economy, 6-8 classes that can be leveled in 2 weeks or less.
I miss the days of Vanguard. EQ and SWG. I miss those days dearly.
So why don't you play Vanguard and EQ? both are still alive and kicking.
Originally posted by Tayah I honestly can't understand why anyone wouldn't think a $15 subscription fee for an mmo they like/love is not worth it. I mean, seriously, it's .50 cents a day to play 24 hours a day if you like. Where else can you get entertainment like that? I know I can't, except netflix $8 a month. Family of 3 nice dinner out, $100-$150. Movie for 3, I can't get out of there less than $75 bucks. I know people that spend hundreds and hundreds of dollars a year on xbox/playstation games that they beat in a day or tow, and end up spending way more than a years subscription to an mmo. I just don't get how people would fight against 50 cents a day, heh.
It's not about the time played, it's about the time unplayed. The price itself isn't relevant, it's that when you're not playing, you're not using something you've spent money on. It's a tiny bit of money, to be sure, but it's still money.
It's similar to having a Netflix account. Any time you're not watching a downloaded movie or getting a dvd in the mail, it feels like you're wasting your money. I would have to look up the psychology behind this, but I'm sure there's something there.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
i bought the game mainly because i could play a mmo with no sub
it is a really good game but i belive if you want my money you should give me something for it
and as all subscription games roughly charge 20% of the box cost a month i expect 20% of content a month and as this wont happen i never sub
i have subed in the past but i soon came to the conclusion that this was a scam and i now have nothing to do with subscriptions
the only game i have played with a subscription recently is eve and that was only because i could could earn enough ingame cash to play for free
i do understand companies need to make money so a cash shop as long as its not pay to win , plus the ability to convert ingame gold to buy items makes this the perfect solution for me
so to answer your question if gw2 had a sub i wouldnt have even bought it just like i didnt buy TERA or TSW or SWTOR
which is a shame as i played a demo of TSW and thought it was really good
I would have cancelled my subscription the first day once i realized there was nothing in the game but heart quests and DE's. The games system reminds me too much of that last Final fantasy MMO where there were no quests just those stupid guild leves. There's no content in this game and leveling becomes a chore that requires you to craft just to slightly keep up with he areas your in. One stupid quest for each level and then a bunch of random walking around. I don't feel compelled at all to explore because i know i'll run into a bunch of mobs i have to kill that give almost zero experience for killing. I feel absolutely no desire to go explore that cave over there because what's the point? The half hour i'll be in there i'll get maybe a bubble of experience and for what?
The game is so light on content it's almost criminal. I can't beleive this game was in development for this long. Would it really have been that hard to put a few quests in there just to give you some kind of reason to explore the world other than seeing another cave or another field?
If this game had a subscription, it would be a massive failure.
I sort of agree with this. Im up to level 13 and the game feels like a grind already. Sure you "run into" quests, but the story and quests design is more generic than most. just kill a bunch of on-coming monsters or collect a bunch of stuff and then kill a boss or even better, be done. Nothing intuitive with combat either.
The biggest issue Im having at the moment though is that after 13 levels my gear hasnt changed in the slightest...very boring...and although there is plenty of exploration, I haven't found anything noteworthy yet...But, the good thing is I dont have to pay a monthly fee and would consider it a complete scam if I had to....even the 60 dollar price tag was too much
I wouldn't because i wont be paying monthly sub fees for any game ever again. They've proven beyond a shadow of a doubt applicable in any courtroom, that subs = lining the pockets of the execs and serve no purpose. heck subs don't even give new content, expansions do that and they charge you anyways.
Do you guys think the lack of "sub" or in other words, steady cashflow, is one of the drawbacks of having almost no customer support as we are seeing with the game right now ?
There are many cases of people waiting up to 4 days for a ticket to be answered, and even then it seems a somewhat half-arsed canned response.
What are your thoughts on this, would you still pay if you knew this would translate directly into better support as well?
Okay this is how I see it, if they add a monthly fee, don't you guys think that they will be able to afford to put more people in to the technical side, thus being able to fix things faster which in the end it would mean less bugs and so on.
Yeah I would, especially if a sub got me more bank space, more bag space and a few chest keys a day.
On a more serious note, I'd pay for a sub if they'd up the ante on their support and provide a mobile/physical authenticator.
I don't mind paying a sub for a game I enjoy, and I'm enjoying GW2 a lot these days.
However, I do think ANet are getting away with a LOT at the moment because there is no sub - people say they're right not to open their forums, that reddit is a perfectly viable place for them to offer support, that it's fine that the TP is down, that they should swing the banhammer with impunity, etc. etc.
If this was any other game from any other company the internet would be busily ripping them a new one.
To be honest, I'll put it all down to teething problems, provided they have most of the major issues resolved in the next month. At the moment, on my server, there is no TP, character creation is not working, and mail keeps going on the fritz. I can hear the chorus of "Minor issues" now...but the longer they persist the larger an irritant they become. The saving grace is that you can drop the game, come back in 6 weeks and not have to pay a sub to check on improvements.
Would I sub right now? Despite genuinely enjoying the game, I wouldn't. I'd wait for them to get their act together and then check back in later.
No for two reasons. It wouldn't be in the same spirit as GW 1. Frankly that's a HUGE reason why I'm playing it. Cause of GW 1 and having a sub fee would just kinda alienate a good chunk of GW1's original fan base who bought the game because it didn't have a sub. Second being that even though I don't mind paying monthly fee, subs make me feel obligated to put time into the game each day cause I am paying every month and as a college student there will be times later this year where I wont even glance at any game for a month and a half due to projects, exams, etc. So that's why I chose absolutely not.
Do you guys think the lack of "sub" or in other words, steady cashflow, is one of the drawbacks of having almost no customer support as we are seeing with the game right now ?
There are many cases of people waiting up to 4 days for a ticket to be answered, and even then it seems a somewhat half-arsed canned response.
What are your thoughts on this, would you still pay if you knew this would translate directly into better support as well?
Well SWTOR had a monthly fee, and tickets would generate a canned response or just go unanswered. Some tickets would just sit and after a week or so, just time out and disappear. Either that or the customer service rep got to work and saw they had 10 thousand tickets assigned to them for that day .. and they were like, man thats too much work .. delete .. delete ... delete ... delete ... delete.. delete...
Needless to say, stuff like that was a cause of a mass exodus (along with a shoddy design). It's not that people didn't have 15 bucks a month to spend, they just would have rather been doing something else with their life. Other P2P games felt equally crappy with lacking ticket responses, missing tickets, or even the occasional wrong canned response (ie: "my character is stuck!" and you get a canned response "Thank you for your ticket. We apologize for your unfortunate incident with another player. We will look into this matter and take appropriate action. The matter is now closed, thank you and have a wonderful day."
I believe every F2P game I played had little to no actual customer service. In some games I never needed to open a ticket because I never had problems. Perhaps once the initial unexpected wrinkles with GW2 get worked out, CS won't be needed much anymore, who knows.
Or buy maybe 5-14 new and old games with the same amount of money. Eh, I think I'd go with more games.
And frankly, if it had a sub, that would encourage them to make design choices that I wouldn't like in the future. As a non-sub game, they don't have the same financial incentives at work.
So you're saying the best choice is to just stop making MM0's unless they are free or cost less than some cheap games on Steam. Gotcha...
I'm saying that if you want a lot of quality gaming for your dollar, then a sub fee is a complete rip-off. You don't get an amount of content that justifies the fee at all. In fact, the game makers have an incentive to put as little work into new content as they can manage while still getting you to keep playing. That really encourages grind. The psychology of getting people not to take action and cancel a sub is a lot different than getting someone to take action and buy something. The latter is a lot better for the consumer.
So yeah, subscriptions are a great way to rip off gamers. You can't point to one game with a sub fee that even outputs ONE game worth a content a year, let alone the 3-6 games of content the devs are getting in sub fees from you (remember, they get pure profit off subs, no middleman, so it is quite lucrative for them).
When you consider the other ways to get quality gaming, even quality multiplayer gaming, there's just no comparison or justification for a company charging for an MMO. The cost isn't an issue for them, as GW2 proves (or just glancing at all the games with free online servers proves).
I'm just not going to let myself get ripped off anymore. I'd rather pay for 3 new AAA titles or new indie titles or old games I didn't get around to buying when they came out before. You can get a heck of a lot of gaming for you money these days and non-MMOs don't fall into the grind-fest design that plagues this industry. And for whatever the talk of GW2 having grind, it is a heck of a lot less grindy than any other MMO and the grind is frankly optional.
We all know how good of a deal it seems, you pay once, play for life.
It seems most people I have spoken to, still play and will play it mostly because it has no monthly fees and not so much because it is a VERY good game. The game is plagued with bugs and service failures, so I have to wonder if we would all be saying good things if this game had a subscription.
But how many of you would keep playing this if it had subscription?
Do you think this game is good enough to have one?
Thanks!
Really a stupid and Moot question.Its a GW game designed specifically for BTP.Why ask this question other than to troll?The game works fine for me and only had an issue logging in on the first day of early release.After that the only real probelm I see is the AH is down.Plus all the dbags trying to hack accounts.Well worth the price I paid.
I would have cancelled my subscription the first day once i realized there was nothing in the game but heart quests and DE's. The games system reminds me too much of that last Final fantasy MMO where there were no quests just those stupid guild leves. There's no content in this game and leveling becomes a chore that requires you to craft just to slightly keep up with he areas your in. One stupid quest for each level and then a bunch of random walking around. I don't feel compelled at all to explore because i know i'll run into a bunch of mobs i have to kill that give almost zero experience for killing. I feel absolutely no desire to go explore that cave over there because what's the point? The half hour i'll be in there i'll get maybe a bubble of experience and for what?
The game is so light on content it's almost criminal. I can't beleive this game was in development for this long. Would it really have been that hard to put a few quests in there just to give you some kind of reason to explore the world other than seeing another cave or another field?
If this game had a subscription, it would be a massive failure.
Honest question. Do you even play this game?
I doubt he still plays the game but its obvious that he has played the game. Even you can see that if you play. He is totally right about everything he said about the game.
Why do you think i highlighted it in yellow? because i just love the color so much? you have never played the game so you have no idea that whatever he wrote and highlighted in yellow is just BS.
LMAO, prepurchased and started playing last friday night at 11 PM my time in Texas. Played a Thief till level 20 then rolled an Elementist and got it to level 16 or 17 before I had seen enough. If you look at the MMORPG.com guild roster you will even see my name. I guess everybody that does not feel like you have not played the game?
Dunno if you'll ever read this... but what he said wasn't correct..
Why explore a cave? Easy... DE's, POI, Vista etc..
This game isn't for the people who want to just kill stuff. You get a lot of your xp from exploring.
Comments
I honestly can't understand why anyone would think a $15 subscription fee for an mmo they can get for free is worth it. I mean, seriously, it's free every day to play 24 hours a day if you like. thats where you can get entertainment like that!
Why should I give a company any extra money for a game I bought when others give it for free? I have had more fun in GW2 in 2 weeks than the last year I played WoW, or the few months playing SWTOR...or the entire time I played DAoC. Hell, I would have to go all the way back to playing AC1 for 5 years before finding a subscription game more fun than this game and that is only due to some epicly long PvP duels.
And so a nail was hit in the head...
I miss the days of Vanguard. EQ and SWG. I miss those days dearly.
New players can get a welcome package and old/returning players can also get a welcome back package and 7 days free subscription time! Just click here to use my referral invitation
Same here. I'm done with "sub fee" mmos for now.
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Yes, especially after trying to play this last weekend and having my server lock up due to heavy load. Tons of people were commenting on the terrible lag, so I know it wasn't just my connection.
I can't really complain about the lag because there is no subscription fee in which ArenaNet could obtain more funding to maintain a better quality connection, but I'd prefer a sub or an option to sub if it meant a sure-fire way to get a better in-game currency-to-gem ratio for Gem Shop items, and a more stable connection.
The game is enjoyable enough that I'd be willing to pay a subscription, especially if they could keep the Free-To-Play model for players, but offer an "unlock more content" option if you subscribe.
and you are the one calling open world PvP and seamless worlds deep or complex. And by the way, EQ had neither (well you *could* flag, but no one did it. You would see one red name a year.)
Yep GW2 Fans out there, we have officialy reached a 45% of GW2 Failure.
2012-09-03
Nice topics btw
No, I couldnt force myself to play it if the game was given to me free. I cant play yet another brain dead themepark mmo. It doesnt matter if it has new wrinkles or not, it all boils down to the exact same fecies.
I am done with this genre until a game brings back challenging PvE fights, that take real strategy, and where the players want to avoid death like the black plague. I am feed up with these hand holding games, they are just a waste of time(guess you could say that about any game
), even the majority of people that like this type of game wont get more than 90 days out of this title.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
So why don't you play Vanguard and EQ? both are still alive and kicking.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
It's not about the time played, it's about the time unplayed. The price itself isn't relevant, it's that when you're not playing, you're not using something you've spent money on. It's a tiny bit of money, to be sure, but it's still money.
It's similar to having a Netflix account. Any time you're not watching a downloaded movie or getting a dvd in the mail, it feels like you're wasting your money. I would have to look up the psychology behind this, but I'm sure there's something there.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
i bought the game mainly because i could play a mmo with no sub
it is a really good game but i belive if you want my money you should give me something for it
and as all subscription games roughly charge 20% of the box cost a month i expect 20% of content a month and as this wont happen i never sub
i have subed in the past but i soon came to the conclusion that this was a scam and i now have nothing to do with subscriptions
the only game i have played with a subscription recently is eve and that was only because i could could earn enough ingame cash to play for free
i do understand companies need to make money so a cash shop as long as its not pay to win , plus the ability to convert ingame gold to buy items makes this the perfect solution for me
so to answer your question if gw2 had a sub i wouldnt have even bought it just like i didnt buy TERA or TSW or SWTOR
which is a shame as i played a demo of TSW and thought it was really good
I sort of agree with this. Im up to level 13 and the game feels like a grind already. Sure you "run into" quests, but the story and quests design is more generic than most. just kill a bunch of on-coming monsters or collect a bunch of stuff and then kill a boss or even better, be done. Nothing intuitive with combat either.
The biggest issue Im having at the moment though is that after 13 levels my gear hasnt changed in the slightest...very boring...and although there is plenty of exploration, I haven't found anything noteworthy yet...But, the good thing is I dont have to pay a monthly fee and would consider it a complete scam if I had to....even the 60 dollar price tag was too much
Do you guys think the lack of "sub" or in other words, steady cashflow, is one of the drawbacks of having almost no customer support as we are seeing with the game right now ?
There are many cases of people waiting up to 4 days for a ticket to be answered, and even then it seems a somewhat half-arsed canned response.
What are your thoughts on this, would you still pay if you knew this would translate directly into better support as well?
New players can get a welcome package and old/returning players can also get a welcome back package and 7 days free subscription time! Just click here to use my referral invitation
Yeah I would, especially if a sub got me more bank space, more bag space and a few chest keys a day.
On a more serious note, I'd pay for a sub if they'd up the ante on their support and provide a mobile/physical authenticator.
I don't mind paying a sub for a game I enjoy, and I'm enjoying GW2 a lot these days.
However, I do think ANet are getting away with a LOT at the moment because there is no sub - people say they're right not to open their forums, that reddit is a perfectly viable place for them to offer support, that it's fine that the TP is down, that they should swing the banhammer with impunity, etc. etc.
If this was any other game from any other company the internet would be busily ripping them a new one.
To be honest, I'll put it all down to teething problems, provided they have most of the major issues resolved in the next month. At the moment, on my server, there is no TP, character creation is not working, and mail keeps going on the fritz. I can hear the chorus of "Minor issues" now...but the longer they persist the larger an irritant they become. The saving grace is that you can drop the game, come back in 6 weeks and not have to pay a sub to check on improvements.
Would I sub right now? Despite genuinely enjoying the game, I wouldn't. I'd wait for them to get their act together and then check back in later.
Well SWTOR had a monthly fee, and tickets would generate a canned response or just go unanswered. Some tickets would just sit and after a week or so, just time out and disappear. Either that or the customer service rep got to work and saw they had 10 thousand tickets assigned to them for that day .. and they were like, man thats too much work .. delete .. delete ... delete ... delete ... delete.. delete...
Needless to say, stuff like that was a cause of a mass exodus (along with a shoddy design). It's not that people didn't have 15 bucks a month to spend, they just would have rather been doing something else with their life. Other P2P games felt equally crappy with lacking ticket responses, missing tickets, or even the occasional wrong canned response (ie: "my character is stuck!" and you get a canned response "Thank you for your ticket. We apologize for your unfortunate incident with another player. We will look into this matter and take appropriate action. The matter is now closed, thank you and have a wonderful day."
I believe every F2P game I played had little to no actual customer service. In some games I never needed to open a ticket because I never had problems. Perhaps once the initial unexpected wrinkles with GW2 get worked out, CS won't be needed much anymore, who knows.
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
I'm saying that if you want a lot of quality gaming for your dollar, then a sub fee is a complete rip-off. You don't get an amount of content that justifies the fee at all. In fact, the game makers have an incentive to put as little work into new content as they can manage while still getting you to keep playing. That really encourages grind. The psychology of getting people not to take action and cancel a sub is a lot different than getting someone to take action and buy something. The latter is a lot better for the consumer.
So yeah, subscriptions are a great way to rip off gamers. You can't point to one game with a sub fee that even outputs ONE game worth a content a year, let alone the 3-6 games of content the devs are getting in sub fees from you (remember, they get pure profit off subs, no middleman, so it is quite lucrative for them).
When you consider the other ways to get quality gaming, even quality multiplayer gaming, there's just no comparison or justification for a company charging for an MMO. The cost isn't an issue for them, as GW2 proves (or just glancing at all the games with free online servers proves).
I'm just not going to let myself get ripped off anymore. I'd rather pay for 3 new AAA titles or new indie titles or old games I didn't get around to buying when they came out before. You can get a heck of a lot of gaming for you money these days and non-MMOs don't fall into the grind-fest design that plagues this industry. And for whatever the talk of GW2 having grind, it is a heck of a lot less grindy than any other MMO and the grind is frankly optional.
Really a stupid and Moot question.Its a GW game designed specifically for BTP.Why ask this question other than to troll?The game works fine for me and only had an issue logging in on the first day of early release.After that the only real probelm I see is the AH is down.Plus all the dbags trying to hack accounts.Well worth the price I paid.
Dunno if you'll ever read this... but what he said wasn't correct..
Why explore a cave? Easy... DE's, POI, Vista etc..
This game isn't for the people who want to just kill stuff. You get a lot of your xp from exploring.