Originally posted by Leonona It was Ree Soesbee who said that in the Manifesto video. She works on the personal story and that was what she was talking about. The game cares you are there in the personal story, not so much in the open world.
/End
And the change of goal post has already begun. Gotto love it.
Originally posted by Leonona It was Ree Soesbee who said that in the Manifesto video. She works on the personal story and that was what she was talking about. The game cares you are there in the personal story, not so much in the open world.
Thank you for the information Leonona ^__^ Still, i do not get the feel they were talking only about the personal story when i watch that vid. To me it sounded like the game would actually care in many events and situations, not just in 1 questline.
Thank you eGumball as well.
That makes lots of sense.
That's because they said the same things in the vid about DEs.
It is fully impossible to build a game with no end. What they meant is simple: There´s a different between going to kill the bandits while they attack the village and then run away, than, when you go to a bandit area where there´s no-limited amount of them, and just kill 20 and pretend that they have run away.
Many, if not most, DEs lead to different paths that really tells the story of the map you are playing in .. also, if yu are active and can interact enough with world and DEs you can almost, always, find new paths to take, so you won´t repeat everything by many times.
Otherwise, it is about feeling, the feeling that you are doing something, that can bring you one step further in your way to solve this puzzle or find that lost child. Is the feeling about seing the world, changing the whole time. However, in reality, this is still a game and if you go afk, as u explained it, you will see the same happen again of course. There´s basically no modern techology that can brings you a world that include perm-changes the whole time.
I'm afraid this won't be possible until it can be done procedurally. This seems to be evolving with games such as Minecraft, Terraria, A Valley Without Wind but they're indie games working on very basic graphics and storytelling. To see it done on an open world persistant MMORPG is like aiming to travel to another star when we barely make it to the Moon.
Then you have games that rely on some kind of procedural content, but they merely supplement the main gameplay such as Legasista, Disgaea series.
Back when they released the "manifesto", A-net claimed that one of the things they disliked the most of standard mmo´s was the fact that no matter which quest you completed, boss you killed, or village you saved, everything resetted five minutes later and the game did not care about the player not it´s exploits.
Well, how is GW2 offering me a different experience from that?
I am a lv 32 warrior so far, and while i had a blast on most of the game´s features and i am loving exploring and crafting, i still do not see how does GW2´s world care that i am there.
I visited a lot of zones and done dozens of events, and every single one of them restarts if i just stay 5 mins afk around them, the villages are constantly under siege, those pesky centaurs keep coming for more and generally nothign seems to change or "stay saved" as i progress thru my own storyline and partecipate in the events.
Sure, some (very few and far between) events have slightly alter the npc presence in the zone, such as that lv 15-25 field where upon the completion of all the centaur questline, the lionguard "controls" most of the roads, but that´s not really all that "world changing" and even that goes away within half a hour or so.
So...what about it?
You are part of the new game rush. Go back to the low level villages in 2 months and you will see them over-run with hostile mobs and vastly different to how you saw them at launch.
Back when they released the "manifesto", A-net claimed that one of the things they disliked the most of standard mmo´s was the fact that no matter which quest you completed, boss you killed, or village you saved, everything resetted five minutes later and the game did not care about the player not it´s exploits.
Well, how is GW2 offering me a different experience from that?
I am a lv 32 warrior so far, and while i had a blast on most of the game´s features and i am loving exploring and crafting, i still do not see how does GW2´s world care that i am there.
I visited a lot of zones and done dozens of events, and every single one of them restarts if i just stay 5 mins afk around them, the villages are constantly under siege, those pesky centaurs keep coming for more and generally nothign seems to change or "stay saved" as i progress thru my own storyline and partecipate in the events.
Sure, some (very few and far between) events have slightly alter the npc presence in the zone, such as that lv 15-25 field where upon the completion of all the centaur questline, the lionguard "controls" most of the roads, but that´s not really all that "world changing" and even that goes away within half a hour or so.
So...what about it?
While I am not a fan of the betrayal to Tolkien that is Lord of the Rings Online, the fact that you can close out these epic story parts is about the best that is offered presently in the industry. THIS is why it's best to at least have something important to fight over - such as your realm. Though, even in say, Dark Age of Camelot, a caslte can change hands quite a few times in a given night lol.
Originally posted by Leonona It was Ree Soesbee who said that in the Manifesto video. She works on the personal story and that was what she was talking about. The game cares you are there in the personal story, not so much in the open world.
I was expecting the open world to be a little different myself. I suppose if I had really thought about it, the open world actually being open in a sandbox kind of way wouldn't really make sense if there were a bunch of other people in the world, but that was still the impression I got.
I think it's fine the way it is, and it's an improvement over the usual running around a theme park world, but it's not what I was expecting.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
The reason de s are very easy at the moment is becuase most are designed to only scale for about 10 to 12 players. As the game continues, expect to see the community even out through the world,which will make des much more exciting and dangerous.
The mechanics of the game care. The lore, story etc. doesnt. That is not the point. You are a soldier, a grunt so to speak, holding up the real heros such as the divintiys edge people. It was the same in gw1.
The reason de s are very easy at the moment is becuase most are designed to only scale for about 10 to 12 players. As the game continues, expect to see the community even out through the world,which will make des much more exciting and dangerous.
The mechanics of the game care. The lore, story etc. doesnt. That is not the point. You are a soldier, a grunt so to speak, holding up the real heros such as the divintiys edge people. It was the same in gw1.
What? In GW1 you were the hero, part of the few ascended who survived the shattering of Ascalon. You were not a grunt by any stretch of the imagination.
I remember a few months bak there was indeed talk how Dynamic events changed the game world depending on the outcome.
I remember also there was a example given ( I think even by Arenanet themselves) about if you fail to defend a bridge it gets blown up. And just as important it would reapear once the event was completely finished and reset which could take a month (not 5 minutes!)
Originally posted by Leonona It was Ree Soesbee who said that in the Manifesto video. She works on the personal story and that was what she was talking about. The game cares you are there in the personal story, not so much in the open world.
Thank you for the information Leonona ^__^ Still, i do not get the feel they were talking only about the personal story when i watch that vid. To me it sounded like the game would actually care in many events and situations, not just in 1 questline.
Thank you eGumball as well.
That makes lots of sense.
That's because they said the same things in the vid about DEs.
I remember a few months bak there was indeed talk how Dynamic events changed the game world depending on the outcome.
I remember also there was a example given ( I think even by Arenanet themselves) about if you fail to defend a bridge it gets blown up. And just as important it would reapear once the event was completely finished and reset which could take a month (not 5 minutes!)
i remember that too but ANET never said DEs made a permanent difference
i havent seen enough of the game to know if a chain DE could take a month to play out
Are dynamic events cyclical? If so, how often do the cycles occur?
Colin: Dynamic events are cyclical in nature, yes.
Many of the events in the game belong to large event chains that cycle in various directions based on the outcome of the events in the chain. Other events can be one-off events that can occur, change the world, and cycle back so some conditions must be met in the world to make the event start again. These event cycles vary dramatically on a case-by-case basis. In some large event chains, depending on player participation and the outcome of events, the chain could go entirely from one end to the other over the course of hours before it cycles back. In other cases, the event may change the world for 10-15 minutes before it can cycle back around. Some events only occur when specific conditions are met, like a snow storm rolls into the map, or night falls over the graveyard. If an event reaches one end of the chain, it could sit at that point for days, weeks, or months until a player comes along and decides to participate in the event chain. We’ve tried to vary the conditions that trigger events and change the length and variety of the event cycles so that everything feels organic and unique.
Its only happened once so far that I can think of or payed attention to. But I did save a little girl in an event and now every time I go back to that town the mother thanks me for saving her little girl. i dont know if its really that rare or I just dont pay attention to it. The only time I visit towns is when I HAVE to. The game world itself is to much fun to sit in town for long.
Originally posted by CallsignVega You have zero effect on the world in GW2. No PvP in the world besides battlegrounds is a huge failure.
Because killing another player in the open world where they can just respawn means something? Only games where open world PvP would matter is where there is permadeath, which not many gamers are fond of I should add.
Even now going through on my alt (spicing it up a bit by playing the Mesmer), now that the large rush of players has left the starter zones I am starting to see some failed DEs and the follow ons that I didnt see the first time around. Captured towns, destroyed bridges, people held hostage etc. Has definitely made my second run through interesting (its the same Sylvari area too).
Originally posted by CallsignVega You have zero effect on the world in GW2. No PvP in the world besides battlegrounds is a huge failure.
Because killing another player in the open world where they can just respawn means something? Only games where open world PvP would matter is where there is permadeath, which not many gamers are fond of I should add.
Territorial control and other battles over resources in the open world coud possibly leave an effect on the world.
Even now going through on my alt (spicing it up a bit by playing the Mesmer), now that the large rush of players has left the starter zones I am starting to see some failed DEs and the follow ons that I didnt see the first time around. Captured towns, destroyed bridges, people held hostage etc. Has definitely made my second run through interesting (its the same Sylvari area too).
Glad to hear that, once they fix their technical issues, I can start recommending friends to get the game then .
Originally posted by Scalpless The effects of DEs could be a bit more prominent, but GW2 is a THEMEPARK with a limited number of pre-made events. Making them too permanent isn't realistically possible without a huge budget and a huge budget is something ANet didn't have.
It would take a different design approach than they took. But if you think about it, its not really hard.
1. Area gets overrun
2. players go to area to do quests or events
3. The state of the area determines the quests available..
its really not that difficult, many of the events feel somewhat... unfinished due to this Looping approach they took....
Back when they released the "manifesto", A-net claimed that one of the things they disliked the most of standard mmo´s was the fact that no matter which quest you completed, boss you killed, or village you saved, everything resetted five minutes later and the game did not care about the player not it´s exploits.
Well, how is GW2 offering me a different experience from that?
I am a lv 32 warrior so far, and while i had a blast on most of the game´s features and i am loving exploring and crafting, i still do not see how does GW2´s world care that i am there.
I visited a lot of zones and done dozens of events, and every single one of them restarts if i just stay 5 mins afk around them, the villages are constantly under siege, those pesky centaurs keep coming for more and generally nothign seems to change or "stay saved" as i progress thru my own storyline and partecipate in the events.
Sure, some (very few and far between) events have slightly alter the npc presence in the zone, such as that lv 15-25 field where upon the completion of all the centaur questline, the lionguard "controls" most of the roads, but that´s not really all that "world changing" and even that goes away within half a hour or so.
So...what about it?
Ok. here we have a game design genius.
So, if the events didnt repeat after some time - what would happen ?
Let say you and few buddies of yours erradicate Centaur threat. Once and for all.
And thats it.
Tyria is at peace and there is nothing else to do in the game.
Well done. You just designed multimilion game that had 3 minutes of gameplay content
Back when they released the "manifesto", A-net claimed that one of the things they disliked the most of standard mmo´s was the fact that no matter which quest you completed, boss you killed, or village you saved, everything resetted five minutes later and the game did not care about the player not it´s exploits.
Well, how is GW2 offering me a different experience from that?
I am a lv 32 warrior so far, and while i had a blast on most of the game´s features and i am loving exploring and crafting, i still do not see how does GW2´s world care that i am there.
I visited a lot of zones and done dozens of events, and every single one of them restarts if i just stay 5 mins afk around them, the villages are constantly under siege, those pesky centaurs keep coming for more and generally nothign seems to change or "stay saved" as i progress thru my own storyline and partecipate in the events.
Sure, some (very few and far between) events have slightly alter the npc presence in the zone, such as that lv 15-25 field where upon the completion of all the centaur questline, the lionguard "controls" most of the roads, but that´s not really all that "world changing" and even that goes away within half a hour or so.
So...what about it?
Ok. here we have a game design genius.
So, if the events didnt repeat after some time - what would happen ?
Let say you and few buddies of yours erradicate Centaur threat. Once and for all.
And thats it.
Tyria is at peace and there is nothing else to do in the game.
Well done. You just designed multimilion game that had 3 minutes of gameplay content
ROFL
When will people stop ending their posts with "ROFL" or "LOL"?
The OP has a point.
Shame GW2 ripped off Tabula Rasa' Dynamic Battlefields only partially and not entirely. If they did, you could lose a friendly town to a dynamic event along with its vendors and trainers, until it is conquered back by players. GW2 didnt rip off WAR, because Dynamic Events (Public Quests) were first introduced in Tabula Rasa - Dynamic Battlefields.
Have you ever heared of migrating mobs? How about if players wiped centaurs, something else would start spawning in that area, triggering a different set of dynamic events? That doesn't require that much coding nor budget. That would give a feeling that the world is really changing. What if they coded NPCs in towns to react to recent happenings in the area - well that would be dynamic, and still a theme park. The way it is now is just a static re-occurence of the same events.
When will people stop ending their posts with "ROFL" or "LOL"?
The OP has a point.
Shame GW2 ripped off Tabula Rasa' Dynamic Battlefields only partially and not entirely. If they did, you could lose a friendly town to a dynamic event along with its vendors and trainers, until it is conquered back by players. GW2 didnt rip off WAR, because Dynamic Events (Public Quests) were first introduced in Tabula Rasa - Dynamic Battlefields.
Have you ever heared of migrating mobs? How about if players wiped centaurs, something else would start spawning in that area, triggering a different set of dynamic events? That doesn't require that much coding nor budget. That would give a feeling that the world is really changing. What if they coded NPCs in towns to react to recent happenings in the area - well that would be dynamic, and still a theme park. The way it is now is just a static re-occurence of the same events.
I agree, I wish they would've taken it a bit further, i'm only at the 25-35 area right now with the centaurs, but the only thing that happens there is 4 or 5 DE's just keep rotating over and over and over (in an about 15 minute loop, but it's non stop).
In games like tabula rasa and ryzom the world felt a lot more dynamic. Don't get me wrong, i'm still enjoying GW2 a lot, I was just expecting a bit more from all the DE talk.
Comments
And the change of goal post has already begun. Gotto love it.
Sure, thank you!!That's because they said the same things in the vid about DEs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oit0gBEWHo
I'm afraid this won't be possible until it can be done procedurally. This seems to be evolving with games such as Minecraft, Terraria, A Valley Without Wind but they're indie games working on very basic graphics and storytelling. To see it done on an open world persistant MMORPG is like aiming to travel to another star when we barely make it to the Moon.
Then you have games that rely on some kind of procedural content, but they merely supplement the main gameplay such as Legasista, Disgaea series.
You are part of the new game rush. Go back to the low level villages in 2 months and you will see them over-run with hostile mobs and vastly different to how you saw them at launch.
It matters if the players are there or not.
While I am not a fan of the betrayal to Tolkien that is Lord of the Rings Online, the fact that you can close out these epic story parts is about the best that is offered presently in the industry. THIS is why it's best to at least have something important to fight over - such as your realm. Though, even in say, Dark Age of Camelot, a caslte can change hands quite a few times in a given night lol.
Someday, perhaps.
I think deep down it cares - it's just not good at showing it!
I was expecting the open world to be a little different myself. I suppose if I had really thought about it, the open world actually being open in a sandbox kind of way wouldn't really make sense if there were a bunch of other people in the world, but that was still the impression I got.
I think it's fine the way it is, and it's an improvement over the usual running around a theme park world, but it's not what I was expecting.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
The reason de s are very easy at the moment is becuase most are designed to only scale for about 10 to 12 players. As the game continues, expect to see the community even out through the world,which will make des much more exciting and dangerous.
The mechanics of the game care. The lore, story etc. doesnt. That is not the point. You are a soldier, a grunt so to speak, holding up the real heros such as the divintiys edge people. It was the same in gw1.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/innovation
What? In GW1 you were the hero, part of the few ascended who survived the shattering of Ascalon. You were not a grunt by any stretch of the imagination.
Chhhh....
We got one who see's.
Chhhh....
Eliminate!
no they didnt- that video says you can make a difference on the outcome of Dynamic Events
if a Dynamic Event success or fails -- you have an influence over the DE consequences
the lasting difference from the manifesto video is regarding the personal story
EQ2 fan sites
i remember that too but ANET never said DEs made a permanent difference
i havent seen enough of the game to know if a chain DE could take a month to play out
EQ2 fan sites
While I agree they should take longer than 5 minutes, lets be realistic, a month?
Maybe 2 or so hours.
found the quote - and it makes sense from the context
http://www.arena.net/blog/colin-johanson-answers-your-dynamic-event-questions
Are dynamic events cyclical? If so, how often do the cycles occur?
Colin: Dynamic events are cyclical in nature, yes.
Many of the events in the game belong to large event chains that cycle in various directions based on the outcome of the events in the chain. Other events can be one-off events that can occur, change the world, and cycle back so some conditions must be met in the world to make the event start again. These event cycles vary dramatically on a case-by-case basis. In some large event chains, depending on player participation and the outcome of events, the chain could go entirely from one end to the other over the course of hours before it cycles back. In other cases, the event may change the world for 10-15 minutes before it can cycle back around. Some events only occur when specific conditions are met, like a snow storm rolls into the map, or night falls over the graveyard. If an event reaches one end of the chain, it could sit at that point for days, weeks, or months until a player comes along and decides to participate in the event chain. We’ve tried to vary the conditions that trigger events and change the length and variety of the event cycles so that everything feels organic and unique.
EQ2 fan sites
Because killing another player in the open world where they can just respawn means something? Only games where open world PvP would matter is where there is permadeath, which not many gamers are fond of I should add.
Even now going through on my alt (spicing it up a bit by playing the Mesmer), now that the large rush of players has left the starter zones I am starting to see some failed DEs and the follow ons that I didnt see the first time around. Captured towns, destroyed bridges, people held hostage etc. Has definitely made my second run through interesting (its the same Sylvari area too).
Territorial control and other battles over resources in the open world coud possibly leave an effect on the world.
Glad to hear that, once they fix their technical issues, I can start recommending friends to get the game then
.
It would take a different design approach than they took. But if you think about it, its not really hard.
1. Area gets overrun
2. players go to area to do quests or events
3. The state of the area determines the quests available..
its really not that difficult, many of the events feel somewhat... unfinished due to this Looping approach they took....
Could be so much better
Ok. here we have a game design genius.
So, if the events didnt repeat after some time - what would happen ?
Let say you and few buddies of yours erradicate Centaur threat. Once and for all.
And thats it.
Tyria is at peace and there is nothing else to do in the game.
Well done. You just designed multimilion game that had 3 minutes of gameplay content
ROFL
When will people stop ending their posts with "ROFL" or "LOL"?
The OP has a point.
Shame GW2 ripped off Tabula Rasa' Dynamic Battlefields only partially and not entirely. If they did, you could lose a friendly town to a dynamic event along with its vendors and trainers, until it is conquered back by players. GW2 didnt rip off WAR, because Dynamic Events (Public Quests) were first introduced in Tabula Rasa - Dynamic Battlefields.
Have you ever heared of migrating mobs? How about if players wiped centaurs, something else would start spawning in that area, triggering a different set of dynamic events? That doesn't require that much coding nor budget. That would give a feeling that the world is really changing. What if they coded NPCs in towns to react to recent happenings in the area - well that would be dynamic, and still a theme park. The way it is now is just a static re-occurence of the same events.
REALITY CHECK
I agree, I wish they would've taken it a bit further, i'm only at the 25-35 area right now with the centaurs, but the only thing that happens there is 4 or 5 DE's just keep rotating over and over and over (in an about 15 minute loop, but it's non stop).
In games like tabula rasa and ryzom the world felt a lot more dynamic. Don't get me wrong, i'm still enjoying GW2 a lot, I was just expecting a bit more from all the DE talk.