You're making the mistake of thinking that just because something isn't innovative it means it's not good. Quite the opposite, GW2 is a very good game.
Agreed it is a good game.
However, I have to disagree on it not being innovative.
Taking a dozen ideas from disparate sources and expanding and improving upon them, then putting them altogether into a coherent whole is innovation. Just because you can trace its ancestry in various ways from various sources doesn't mean the sum of all of its components isn't new. Heck, some of those components have been expanded and improved upon so much that they are certainly, by themselves, innovating on the original concept. DEs are PQs after further innovation.
To say it isn't innovative requires a few things that are quite unfair. First, it requires dismissing innovations in certain areas (like PQs) where they have made very significant changes for the better from what has come before. It also requires to ignore some of the smaller details that are fairly different Sure, the skill system is a bit like some other games (such as Gw1), but it also has a number of differences that are significant in terms of gameplay and design. Lastly, it requires that you have no appreciation for the immense difficulty in combining a bunch of disparate ideas together into a coherent whole, which is far from easy. Any idiot can say "why don't they take, R, S, T, U, V, W, X, Y, and Z from games A, B, C, D, E, F, G, and H and put them into one game!" Doing it and making a good product? That's not painting by numbers.
Point is, the whole is quite different from any MMO that has come before. Yes, we can see the sources of inspiration for anything in the game, but that doesn't make the whole less significant or less innovative. It is something new and different in the MMO genre. It's not the most innovative thing ever, but it is innovative.
Why on earth is GW2 considered the mesiah of the MMO industry? Seriously it's getting annoying , just the fact that it got a NCSOFT logo slapped somewhere on it's cover box just down graded the game by a few dozen of points. Eveyrone I know that pre ordered GW2 and played it , returned to either Aion or Tera and a few to Rift. Again , GW1 was AMAZING back then , times have changed , and they could of done alot more with GW2 , and I really do hope for Anet's sake that they have alot in store that they haven't talked about yet.
ArcheAge will change the face of the MMO world in the fantasy departement , but unfortunately we won't be seeing it by 2014.
I agree that GW2 is not the messiah of gaming, but I've seen 'X will change the face of the MMO world...' too many times to count. Vanguard, Shadowbane, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Warhammer Online--I was ready for a new game back in 2006 when I was High Warlord and Blizzard announced The Burning Crusade. Why should I have to wait 8 years to see another MMORPG worth playing? Isn't it possible that they are just stringing you along? Well, optimism isn't a bad thing, I suppose.Still, I'm done wasting my time. OF course, whatever this game is in 2014 will require a computer upgrade. If the modern idea of good graphics is Diablo III opposed to Diablo II, count me out.
Originally posted by CalmOceans Isn't GW2 a success? They don't use a subscription fee and charge for the game. Do they realy care all that much after they sold their game from a marketing standpoint...they already cashed in, for them it's a success.
I don't think they are counting on just box sales. It's obvious they are expecting continual income from the cash shop. I'd bet they sold a bunch of storage space with the AH down at release.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Originally posted by spookymia If a subscription game with such a huge IP as SWTOR cannot meet it's predicted subscriber amount, and subscription games of the quality of Rift, TERA and the TSW can't meet their targets, GW2 being a B2P game and of the quality it is, is surely expected to meet it's targets. But what if it doesn't? Will that change the MMO industry?
I doubt we'll ever know if it was a huge success. They are not just relying on game sales (as most would believe) they are also relying on active players to buy from their cash shop.
We won't hear nothing if it's doing badly, but we will hear things if it's doing great.
Anyway, the game won't be a success in my eyes until after a year, and then it has to have a large amount of active players (1-5million.)
Dont forget expansions.
But we will hear about it if it is doing badly. ANET will fire a whole bunch of people then like Mythic, FunCom, Bioware and similar companies that made a MMO that underachived. If ANET fired more than 10% of its employees a year from now then it didnt went well.
In my eyes great success is twice the number of GW1 sales, that is 8 million seperate accounts during the games active period (7 years for GW1). Then we are of course talking the same number of expansions as well.
But anything that makes them keep current number of employees are good news.
@Loke666, when people cap their characters, what do you expect players are going to be doing in gw2? What percentage will stay for the PVP? How many will leave the game? How soon will we see a drop off?
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Originally posted by spookymia If a subscription game with such a huge IP as SWTOR cannot meet it's predicted subscriber amount, and subscription games of the quality of Rift, TERA and the TSW can't meet their targets, GW2 being a B2P game and of the quality it is, is surely expected to meet it's targets. But what if it doesn't? Will that change the MMO industry?
I doubt we'll ever know if it was a huge success. They are not just relying on game sales (as most would believe) they are also relying on active players to buy from their cash shop.
We won't hear nothing if it's doing badly, but we will hear things if it's doing great.
Anyway, the game won't be a success in my eyes until after a year, and then it has to have a large amount of active players (1-5million.)
Dont forget expansions.
But we will hear about it if it is doing badly. ANET will fire a whole bunch of people then like Mythic, FunCom, Bioware and similar companies that made a MMO that underachived. If ANET fired more than 10% of its employees a year from now then it didnt went well.
In my eyes great success is twice the number of GW1 sales, that is 8 million seperate accounts during the games active period (7 years for GW1). Then we are of course talking the same number of expansions as well.
But anything that makes them keep current number of employees are good news.
@Loke666, when people cap their characters, what do you expect players are going to be doing in gw2? What percentage will stay for the PVP? How many will leave the game? How soon will we see a drop off?
But... why does the active player count even matter? This isn't a subscription based MMORPG. They don't need millions of people playing for the next eight years - they want the ones that'll stick around, eventually use the cash shop, and then profit off of expansions. I thought it was pretty common knowledge by now they don't mind if you put up Guild Wars 2 for a few months once you feel like you've beaten it?
I doubt we'll ever know if it was a huge success. They are not just relying on game sales (as most would believe) they are also relying on active players to buy from their cash shop.
ncsoft quarterly financials are public
financially speaking, GW2 will be very visible how successful it is
ncsofts 2nd quarter ending july 31, was reported recently and earnings were broken down by game
the third quarter ending oct 31, will be reported early november
Originally posted by spookymia If a subscription game with such a huge IP as SWTOR cannot meet it's predicted subscriber amount, and subscription games of the quality of Rift, TERA and the TSW can't meet their targets, GW2 being a B2P game and of the quality it is, is surely expected to meet it's targets. But what if it doesn't? Will that change the MMO industry?
I doubt we'll ever know if it was a huge success. They are not just relying on game sales (as most would believe) they are also relying on active players to buy from their cash shop.
We won't hear nothing if it's doing badly, but we will hear things if it's doing great.
Anyway, the game won't be a success in my eyes until after a year, and then it has to have a large amount of active players (1-5million.)
Dont forget expansions.
But we will hear about it if it is doing badly. ANET will fire a whole bunch of people then like Mythic, FunCom, Bioware and similar companies that made a MMO that underachived. If ANET fired more than 10% of its employees a year from now then it didnt went well.
In my eyes great success is twice the number of GW1 sales, that is 8 million seperate accounts during the games active period (7 years for GW1). Then we are of course talking the same number of expansions as well.
But anything that makes them keep current number of employees are good news.
@Loke666, when people cap their characters, what do you expect players are going to be doing in gw2? What percentage will stay for the PVP? How many will leave the game? How soon will we see a drop off?
But... why does the active player count even matter? This isn't a subscription based MMORPG. They don't need millions of people playing for the next eight years - they want the ones that'll stick around, eventually use the cash shop, and then profit off of expansions. I thought it was pretty common knowledge by now they don't mind if you put up Guild Wars 2 for a few months once you feel like you've beaten it?
Hi loke's other account. Well, if people are going to claim how successful the game is post release, what unit of measurement would you suggest? Are you saying that B2P gets to call box sales forever but sub games get penalized when subs drop? If people are going to look at how well the game is doing they need to measure something. We can't measure people feelings if that's what you are thinking.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
Comments
Agreed it is a good game.
However, I have to disagree on it not being innovative.
Taking a dozen ideas from disparate sources and expanding and improving upon them, then putting them altogether into a coherent whole is innovation. Just because you can trace its ancestry in various ways from various sources doesn't mean the sum of all of its components isn't new. Heck, some of those components have been expanded and improved upon so much that they are certainly, by themselves, innovating on the original concept. DEs are PQs after further innovation.
To say it isn't innovative requires a few things that are quite unfair. First, it requires dismissing innovations in certain areas (like PQs) where they have made very significant changes for the better from what has come before. It also requires to ignore some of the smaller details that are fairly different Sure, the skill system is a bit like some other games (such as Gw1), but it also has a number of differences that are significant in terms of gameplay and design. Lastly, it requires that you have no appreciation for the immense difficulty in combining a bunch of disparate ideas together into a coherent whole, which is far from easy. Any idiot can say "why don't they take, R, S, T, U, V, W, X, Y, and Z from games A, B, C, D, E, F, G, and H and put them into one game!" Doing it and making a good product? That's not painting by numbers.
Point is, the whole is quite different from any MMO that has come before. Yes, we can see the sources of inspiration for anything in the game, but that doesn't make the whole less significant or less innovative. It is something new and different in the MMO genre. It's not the most innovative thing ever, but it is innovative.
I agree that GW2 is not the messiah of gaming, but I've seen 'X will change the face of the MMO world...' too many times to count. Vanguard, Shadowbane, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Warhammer Online--I was ready for a new game back in 2006 when I was High Warlord and Blizzard announced The Burning Crusade. Why should I have to wait 8 years to see another MMORPG worth playing? Isn't it possible that they are just stringing you along? Well, optimism isn't a bad thing, I suppose.Still, I'm done wasting my time. OF course, whatever this game is in 2014 will require a computer upgrade. If the modern idea of good graphics is Diablo III opposed to Diablo II, count me out.
It'll obviously leave its print in the MMO industry.Anet brought some pretty good and fresh ideas to the table.
I doubt the B2P method would stick though,I think companies would embrace F2P first,like SOE is doing.
I don't think they are counting on just box sales. It's obvious they are expecting continual income from the cash shop. I'd bet they sold a bunch of storage space with the AH down at release.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
@Loke666, when people cap their characters, what do you expect players are going to be doing in gw2? What percentage will stay for the PVP? How many will leave the game? How soon will we see a drop off?
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
But... why does the active player count even matter? This isn't a subscription based MMORPG. They don't need millions of people playing for the next eight years - they want the ones that'll stick around, eventually use the cash shop, and then profit off of expansions. I thought it was pretty common knowledge by now they don't mind if you put up Guild Wars 2 for a few months once you feel like you've beaten it?
Good call. You can find it all here.
Hi loke's other account. Well, if people are going to claim how successful the game is post release, what unit of measurement would you suggest? Are you saying that B2P gets to call box sales forever but sub games get penalized when subs drop? If people are going to look at how well the game is doing they need to measure something. We can't measure people feelings if that's what you are thinking.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
If GW2 is not a huge success then
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville