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Originally posted by Kaelano1 Most people are opportunistic. I'd like that to be different, too, but it's human nature. We always want the best value for our time spent and we always look for ways to improve "our positions" by and large hopefully not at expense of others, but no human being is obligated by that restriction. We're always pushing the envolope. We do it as children consistantly, pushing the boundaries of rules to learn the limits of those rules and even why those rules even exist. This is indicative of intelligence, because those without insight are conformed to the molds of external pressure. When a parent makes a mistake, mis-detailing an agenda or leaving some exploitable opening bad things occur and it's the parent's job to fix said issue, because they are the adults and they are the people in charge. If the punishment is too harsh the behavior of the child becomes even more rebellious, even more outlandish, next time with appropriate measures so the parent's likely have no concept of awareness. ANet just kicked the kids out of the house for a poor reason in a knee jerk response. The least response will be collective organized disdain. I can easily see, though, some number of spurned "children" finding a way back in and utterly causing chaos in many and assorted varieties.
And if they find a way back and cause chaos they will be banned again and out another $60. Stop trying to pretend that a game company is a parent and the players are kids. I am a grown man and I dont attempt to cheat and act like a child. They got what they deserved.
Originally posted by Syno23 Banning for bots, bugs exploits, and all kinds of other things. I honestly hope they send a freaking warning first, this stuff is killing me.
Yeah... the company should start sending out warnings before banning you for stuff they already told you would get you banned for...
Originally posted by Kaelano1 Originally posted by GoldenArrow The real reason why A.Net is so active with the bannings is to avoid any economical exploits that would mess up the gold-gem trade. This said it's nice to see a developer paying attention.
It shows they didn't have the insight to incorporate effective data collection and roll-back capability. Instead they make sweeping bans. This is a sign of poor design and an effort to cover their own mistakes by denying consumers their $60 product.
If this is the case they should admit it and freely refund said banned consumers' investment.
They might have roll back and decided that making the point about cheating was the better option.
Refund an investment? If you think MMOs are an "investment" would you like to buy my copies of Earth& Beyond and Tabula rasa? Investment my ass.
From the Reddit/AN support thread.
Character Name: Sarantina
I'm most definitely guilty, I just want to see how many times I did it. I don't agree with the ban policy (obviously), but I can't really argue that what I did was wrong.
[+]ArenaNetSupportTeam 29 points30 points31 points
[–]ArenaNetSupportTeam 29 points30 points31 points
Thank you for understanding. FYI, the number was 1034.
Originally posted by Furrballs Anet must be completely batty, any exploitable flaws in game design are completely their fault, what should happen is just removing the exploited items gained and moving on, its just the nature of people to exploit something in a GAME if they can, perma bans for customers that just paid them $60+ is just insane and is incredibly bad business practice..
It's the nature of certain kinds of people. A-net doesn't want those kinds of people in their game. It will cause them more problems in the long run.
I don't want those kinds of people in the games I play, either.
Originally posted by Kaelano1 Originally posted by Rokurgepta Originally posted by Kaelano1 I agree with this statement: "If a function in a game is "broken" due to an oversight by coders and/or game developers, and the flaw is "exercised" by some portion of the player base, it is the developers' responsibility to fix said flaw so the exploitation ceases." Gamers traditionally call this "constructive use of game mechanics", skewed or otherwise. Is it "grey area" of morality? Of course it is but... The developers have now effectively STOLEN $60 from thousands of people (real money, not roll-back game money) when the mistake was theirs. It doesn't matter how you shape it. This game company are now not only incompetant, but also theives. I'm so glad, so glad, I didn't buy this retail. ANet just really pissed off thousands of opportunists with half a brain. Very bad things will come of this.
They stole nothing. You agree to a EULA before you play. If you choose to take advantage of something you know is wrong you have broken the EULA and you get your ban. Nothing was stolen from the cheaters.
Nothing bad will come of this. Good will.
Yes, that's true. That is, however, only the reason they can't be sued.
It doesn't change the fact this instance is indicative of a poorly-made system and thus a poorly-made game. They simply don't have the capacity to professionally deal with it.
You dont know that. They might have just decided to make an example of people now so in the future it doesnt happen. You make a lot of claims that have zero facts to back them up. Poorly made game? You are not even playing so please lets stick to what you do know and stay out of the things you do not.
Originally posted by 7star Originally posted by Furrballs Anet must be completely batty, any exploitable flaws in game design are completely their fault, what should happen is just removing the exploited items gained and moving on, its just the nature of people to exploit something in a GAME if they can, perma bans for customers that just paid them $60+ is just insane and is incredibly bad business practice..
Agreed , some people find a wallet/purse stuffed with cash along with the persons info and pocket it , and likely assume that they aren't doing anything wrong.
They likely assume most people are the same.
Never occurs to them that there are plenty who would help find who lost it without taking a dime.
Some assume everyone would cheat in a game just because they would too I guess.
*conspiracy theory alert* what if Anet put that in the game on purpose to see who would fall for it, since they got their 60 bucks already to ban them.
I definitely wouldn't put it past Blizzard to try, if their games were B2p.
"There is no spoon".
ps: Dont ban the yak people. por favor
Originally posted by bonzoso21 Originally posted by Yaevindusk Originally posted by Kaelano1 Originally posted by GoldenArrow The real reason why A.Net is so active with the bannings is to avoid any economical exploits that would mess up the gold-gem trade. This said it's nice to see a developer paying attention.
Even if they had the ability to roll-back accounts that doesn't act as a deterrent to seeking out and abusing exploits- all it says is to find the exploits as soon as possible, abuse the hell out of them, and hope you don't get caught; but don't worry because if you do get caught they'll just roll you back. I don't think this is heavy handed at all- it's very clearly a statement to the playerbase that this behavior (as well as over-the-top vulgarity and profanity) will not be tolerated. Kudos to ANet.
It shows nothing of the sort. All it shows is that ArenaNet is prepared to take harsh actions against exploiters. Which is something that I wholeheartedly support.
You can argue about this all you want and try to come with a million reasons why ArenaNet banned those d-bags but the simple answer is that ArenaNet has always been harsh with these types of people, even in GW1.
Originally posted by funyahns Can I summarize a bit on the threat as it it. The people who do not like guild wars 2 are mad about them banning cheaters. The people who like Guild Wars 2 are happy they are banning cheaters?
I don't play gw2, and I don't like ncsoft. However I got to give Anet kudo's for what they done. To me this is just not about anet but gaming as a hole. There is tons of cheaters, I wish other companies would follow suite, like SOE. I would love to see some of the cheaters in dcuo, and in eq2 get their's handed to them.
However I 100% completely agree with what anet has done. It is about time a game company stepped up and perma banned folks for cheating, unlike soe who will give you a few days off and let you come back. Nobody ever gets perma banned by soe.
So it is nice to see them cutting out the cheating day one. This sends a clear message that they will not tolerate the bs.
So word to cheaters don't come here and cheet or else.
There will be more bugs. Everyone who plays any video game will in their lives sometimes exploit a bug or two. People make themselves feel better saying they'd never do it, but intelligent people who understand people know it happens. It will be funny when some in the future get a 3-day ban for "exploiting" a similar bad-code issue and they're like, "but I said so many good things about you on mmorpg.com! how could you!"
It's like the phrase "I never lie". Everyone lies. Also there is a GW2 clique around here and the like-minded people like to think they're building points with each other being the loudest pro-GW2-gamer. Really, no one cares. I can talk sense to people until I'm blue in the face and no one's gonna admit it and apologize later, in 3 months, when they can't even bring themselves to log into GW2.
I wish it was that simple. People are suffering from whats called "a lack of accountabilty". They knew they screwed up they just dont want to be punished for it.
Originally posted by Kaelano1 Originally posted by funyahns Can I summarize a bit on the threat as it it. The people who do not like guild wars 2 are mad about them banning cheaters. The people who like Guild Wars 2 are happy they are banning cheaters?
Look ,you've established you will cheat if you can.
We get it.
It just seems you can't comprehend there are those who don't.
Originally posted by Dahkot72 Originally posted by Kaelano1 Originally posted by funyahns Can I summarize a bit on the threat as it it. The people who do not like guild wars 2 are mad about them banning cheaters. The people who like Guild Wars 2 are happy they are banning cheaters?
There are no "those that don't". Do you /bugreport every instance a mob somehow "poofs" and you're given free loot? Do you discuss with a dev every time you feel an ability you use with your favorite toon feels too powerful?
Of course you don't.
At least I'm being honest by saying "sometimes I'm not honest". You won't even give yourself that?
Not wholly accurate, as I had a ton of fun with GW2 during beta weekend 3 and plan on picking it up sometime. And I'm not at all mad about the idea of banning cheaters. I just think that a "ban, ban and only ban" policy of dealing with players who misbehave is a poor way for a company to treat its customers. I think this and some of the other issues ANet has experienced this week with the massive early success of GW2 indicate that they weren't prepared to deal with so many players so quickly, and that they're now in damage control mode until they can put all the proper systems in place (proper investigation tools/staff, official forums, a firm but fair disciplinary process) to run a high-population MMO in the same professional manner as other devs/pubs AAA MMOs on the market.
Make no mistake: I think someone who knowingly exploits the game, griefs players, repeatedly offends others in chat, etc., should be permanently banned from the game. I just think there needs to be a disciplinary system in place that allows for punishments that "fit the crime." I hate seeing ridiculous and innappropriate names like everyone else, but I still think a 72-hour ban is a harsh punishment for a first-time offender with no warning. What happened to warnings from GMs, forced name changes, and shorter temp bans than 3 days? A player who uses bad language in a game with a profanity filter shouldn't try to log on the next day only to find himself banned for 3 days because someone reported it, provided that it wasn't something that could be viewed as hate speech.
Don't speak for me. Not all of us take advantage of exploits, I really don't get why you can't understand that. Any time I see an exploit I either get away from it or report it, thats why I have never been banned in over a decade of gaming. Anyone intelligent would do the same, not go "welllllll I'm human and everyone else is doing it so ill do it to and its their fault its broken!"
The cutoff was 100 items, if you exploited 100 items or less you got a temp ban, anyone at 101 or over got a perma ban. It's not like people who stumbled into the exploit got perma banned. No, these were people who were literally filling every inventory slot they had, in their banks, in their bags, and buying even more slots from the shop in order to fit all the items they were exploiting. They deserve what they got.
My Guild Wars 2 Vids
Mature people will say "hmm I guess that was an exploit. I will take responsibility for my actions."
A mature person who thinks he was truly wronged will be able to bring up the issue with ANet. And if they have a legitimate case it will get reversed. That has also happened.
Just because you seem to have "questionable moral/ethical leanings" doesn't mean everybody else does.
However luckily for you EVE is there waiting!
Originally posted by Kaelano1 Originally posted by Xerith Originally posted by Kaelano1 Originally posted by funyahns Can I summarize a bit on the threat as it it. The people who do not like guild wars 2 are mad about them banning cheaters. The people who like Guild Wars 2 are happy they are banning cheaters?
Not sure how non exploitation in a game puts me up for saint of the year award but ok. Why not respond with what I actually talked about, that only those who exploited the system in a massive manner (and did so knowingly, just read reddit) were banned?
Originally posted by Xerith Originally posted by Kaelano1 Originally posted by funyahns Can I summarize a bit on the threat as it it. The people who do not like guild wars 2 are mad about them banning cheaters. The people who like Guild Wars 2 are happy they are banning cheaters?
+1- I've never had an issue for the same reason- if you hear of an activity that rewards outrageously compared to all other forms of gameplay it's likely an exploit. While there are definitely players whose greatest joys are finding and exploiting bugs (and others that follow along simply as opportunists) many of us realize when something functions in a way that couldn't possibly be intended by devs, so we report it and avoid it. As has been said in the thread already- if you really feel the need to get one over on the game or design staff there are multiple games out there (generally P2P) that don't hold their players accountable for anything. You should seek those games out.
Originally posted by rankor2 From the Eula. ArenaNet reserves the right to suspend or ban players that are abusing orexploiting bugs. Pretty simple really.
I can't believe this hasn't been quoted again yet. I said in another thread, the biggest reason I bought the game on release instead of waiting for a few more reviews to come out was their swift punishment of people. The community will benefit in the long run for it. When you log in, you agree to the TOS which includes the quoted sectinn in the post. Just because you paid your 60 bucks doesn't mean you get to do whatever the hell you want in the game. You use their servers, you play by their rules that you agree to when you log in every single time.
Something similar happened in TERA during my time there, where people could enchant all the way to +9 using regular alkahest instead of the really expensive stuff from +6 to +9. It was very widespread yet there were no bans or anything. People who exploited were just rolled back and armor taken away...and much of the community was outraged over it. Already shows that they aren't serious about stopping cheaters and exploiters, and the community suffered badly for it. I'm thankful for someone like Anet enforcing themselves and keeping their game legit.
The people complaining have nothing to stand on. They complain about them spending money so they shouldn't be banned from playing, I call BS. It's almost like me paying money to go to a football game, acting like a complete ass, getting kicked out and complaining to everyone that I paid my money, so I deserve to be inside the stadium even though I was a complete detriment to everyone in there. Just doesn't happen.
Played: EQ1 (10 Years), Guild Wars, Rift, TERATried: EQ2, Vanguard, Lord of the Rings Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Runes of Magic and countless others...Currently Playing: GW2
Nytlok Sylas80 Sylvari Ranger
Originally posted by Muerte_X So would I get banned from Target if they had, say iPods priced at $1, and I bought a crapload of them? It is in a store marked at a price, and all I did was buy the item? I do not see fault with the customer. Idk, taking advantage of a cheap price OFFERED BY Anet on gear does not seem like a bannable offense to me. Rollback/take the gear and send these people a message saying Woops... cause it seems like thier mistake not the individuals who bought something for cheap.
You wouldn't get banned from Target because AT most they would sell you one iPod, and if you pushed your luck they would refuse to sell them to you outright. No store would allow someone to buy more than one item at a mistaken price.
I dunno if this was stated already in the thread but ArenaNet advised that If you didn't buy at least 50 you were not banned. I'll see if I can find the quote..
ahh yeah here it is..
Exploits - If you discover an exploit in the game, do not exploit it or publicize it, but instead notify us immediately at this new email address: exploits (at) arena (dot) net.
This morning there was a widely-publicized, newly-introduced exploit in which specific cultural weapons were selling for one-thousandth of their normal price. We fixed it with an emergency build this morning. We want to thank the vast majority of players who became aware of the issue, responsibly reported it, and did not exploit it. However, a smaller group of players did significantly exploit it, each purchasing hundreds or thousands of these weapons. We permanently banned 3,000 accounts of players who substantially exploited it, and applied 72-hours bans to another 1,000 accounts of players who mildly exploited it.
Guild Wars 2 @glacialwolf If you bought 50 you are not permanently banned. ^MK
Immediately followed up with
If you feel you were wrongly banned: Feel free to publicly contest it here: http://ow.ly/dmqE9 ^MK