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Will we ever see a non-solo oriented mmo again?

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  • GrumpyMel2GrumpyMel2 Catskills, NYPosts: 1,832Member
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by GrumpyMel2
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by GrumpyMel2

    Guess what multi-player FPS games ARE widely popular....probably even more so then MMO's. Thier players seem to have no problem with the idea that teamwork and playing cooperatively with others is an important key to success in those games. Many of them do it on a regular basis and they have alot of fun doing so. An MMO which emulated those aspects of group oriented play from FPS games definately has the potential to do well.

    Classes and level disparity are the two walls to achieving such a goal. GW removes both in their PVP.

    I'm not sure I agree with the "classes and level disparity" thing. All FPS games have classes...they just call them "kits" instead. In most you can change between spawns (assuming you've unlocked the kit)....but many have built-in limitations on that as well...depending upon control of specific objectives or using up of certain tickets or equipment, you may be limited into what you can spawn into...but you generaly still find some way to be usefull.

    In terms of "levels" that's not much different then players of different skill level...or players who haven't unlocked the most  advanced equipment. Sure, they may not contribute as much to a sides efforts...but as long as they try to work with you, they generaly contribute something.

    So I don't neccesarly see either as a hard stop to group oriented play for MMO's.

    All FPS games have classes? That's news to me, but I'll pretend that's true and move on to the next part.

    Of the popular FPS games, players can switch class when and if needed. Show up to a raid with your healer/medic when the group already has plenty and you're SOL unless you also went and levelled up another character... remotely nearby... on that server. In an FPS, you usually click three or four buttons and you're back in the game with a different class.

    I'm also curious what FPS games you play that level has ever been an issue. Likewise, which MMOs you've played where level isn't an issue. In some MMOs, level isn't an issue, but that certainly is not the norm by any stretch. In MMOs, the level disparity is so horrendous that often a difference of 6 levels could make someone useless to the group. Devs have acknowledged the level disparity and have often added the band-aid solution of mentor or sidekick systems to compensate for it. Are you confusing leveling with level disparity? I'm trying to figure out how you reached those rather odd conclusions.

     

    I think you are misconstruing a bit what I said...

    In FPS games your kit/equipment plays FUNCTIONALY the same role that classes do in MMO's. They control what sorts of things you can do in combat. Now it's true that in most FPS games, you can change kits when you die. However it's NOT true that you can generaly do so without limitation whenever you want/need to do so. Many FPS games have mechanisms that limit when/if/who can spawn into a kit/equipment.

     - There are "unlock" systems where if a player doesn't have a certain kit/equipment unlocked, he can't spawn into it.

    - There are ticket/resource/life based systems where your side only has access to a certain number of each kit or piece of equipment...and once they are all used up/destroyed....that's it, you have to spawn into something else. All tank tickets or  mg tickets used up...guess your coming back as a rifleman.

    - There are control point based systems where is your air base or armor depot spawn point is controled by the enemy...too bad... you aren't spawning into that type of equipment.

    - There's also the classic "This map has 2 tanks per side, both of yours are currently occupied by players doing nothing usefull with them on the other side of the map."

    In terms of levels....no FPS games general don't have them.... but FUNCTIONALY what you are really talking about with levels in terms of combat is a disparity in power between players. FPS games certainly DO have those. They can take the form of player skill/experience...or very often these days, they can take the form of what equipment the player has "unlocked". Do they have a basic rifle...or have the unlocked a far more advanced weapon?

    Those same functions exist in many FPS games....and that hasn't acted as a fundemental roadblock to plenty of players still having fun in those games. I don't see why it NECCESSARLY should for MMO's? Simply because classes exist or levels exist (not that an MMO neccesarly needs to have either).

    Am I being clearer?

  • Grimlock426Grimlock426 Sacramento, CAPosts: 159Member
    Originally posted by MMOwanderer

    I never played EQ1, but, if you're refering to AAA, high budget game, then, extremely unlikely.

    The mmo playerbase nowadays wants to play with the people they know. Family members, RL friends and guildies. People prefer to be in this comfortable position of isolation from other with those they trust,a nd put all those they don't know afar.

    This si because most casual players want to play it like a co-op game with others around the, but not with them.

    Only change of something that isn't just a co-op leveling adventure is probably in indie mmos. Maybe EQ, TITAN, or, lookign at CCP's history, WOD.

    This!

    I love MMO's, but I love them primarily because I can play with close friends and keep playing beyond the limits of what a typical console-type co-op game can provide.   l love seeing other people around me and even interacting with them...when I choose too.  I even like reading some of the general chat.  It makes me feel like I'm with others as opposed to true solo games like Skyrim.  I also like crafting and interacting with others via buying and selling items.

    However, do not FORCE me to play with people in order to get things done.  If there are certain side quests that require groups, that's fine, so long as me skipping those doesn't make my character weaker because of it.  Just let me play how I want to play.  If I want to group up then let me do that, but if I don't then let me do that as well.

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,994Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Grimlock426
    Originally posted by MMOwanderer

    I never played EQ1, but, if you're refering to AAA, high budget game, then, extremely unlikely.

    The mmo playerbase nowadays wants to play with the people they know. Family members, RL friends and guildies. People prefer to be in this comfortable position of isolation from other with those they trust,a nd put all those they don't know afar.

    This si because most casual players want to play it like a co-op game with others around the, but not with them.

    Only change of something that isn't just a co-op leveling adventure is probably in indie mmos. Maybe EQ, TITAN, or, lookign at CCP's history, WOD.

    This!

    I love MMO's, but I love them primarily because I can play with close friends and keep playing beyond the limits of what a typical console-type co-op game can provide.   l love seeing other people around me and even interacting with them...when I choose too.  I even like reading some of the general chat.  It makes me feel like I'm with others as opposed to true solo games like Skyrim.  I also like crafting and interacting with others via buying and selling items.

    However, do not FORCE me to play with people in order to get things done.  If there are certain side quests that require groups, that's fine, so long as me skipping those doesn't make my character weaker because of it.  Just let me play how I want to play.  If I want to group up then let me do that, but if I don't then let me do that as well.

    Exactly why we won't ever see the group oriented MMO again, the majority of the market thinks like this.

    The rest of us are firmly in the niche and no major Dev house will ever be able to cater to that, the economics just don't make sense.

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • Muerte_XMuerte_X ventura, CAPosts: 104Member
    Originally posted by maplestone
    Originally posted by Muerte_X

    I pose this question: if you want play almost entirely solo, why are you playing an MMO?

    *points to the group-vs-solo sticky thread attached permanently to the top the forum*

    This question is asked a lot and answered a lot.

    Sticky or no, it is still relevant to this thread and the discussion around it :) Although you are right, it is beaten to death :/

    Often lurking, rarely posting

  • Grimlock426Grimlock426 Sacramento, CAPosts: 159Member
    Or just look at my post, 2 above this for reasons I may like to play an MMO as opposed to a single RPG like Skyrim.
  • IfrianMMOIfrianMMO BarcelonaPosts: 212Member

    The problem is mmorpgs are played nowadays by people that hate mmorpgs.

    They started playing them cause it was THE thing to do, (even though they hated the mmocore) and  instead of sticking to their own solo genres, they forced the mmodevs to change mmorpgs into the other genre with a mmo paint in it to keep them happy.

    And meanwhile the true mmorpg fans are left without mmorpgs to play.

     

     

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  • APRIMEAPRIME Harlingen, TXPosts: 72Member
    Originally posted by Muerte_X
    Originally posted by maplestone
    Originally posted by Muerte_X

    I pose this question: if you want play almost entirely solo, why are you playing an MMO?

    *points to the group-vs-solo sticky thread attached permanently to the top the forum*

    This question is asked a lot and answered a lot.

    Sticky or no, it is still relevant to this thread and the discussion around it :) Although you are right, it is beaten to death :/

     

    It wouldn't be beaten to death if the pro-group players didn't keep asking why play an mmo if you solo, right?

     

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/06/05/the-soapbox-why-solo-players-dont-just-play-a-single-player-ga/

     

  • rungardrungard st. john''s, NFPosts: 1,035Member
    Originally posted by Grimlock426
    Originally posted by MMOwanderer

    I never played EQ1, but, if you're refering to AAA, high budget game, then, extremely unlikely.

    The mmo playerbase nowadays wants to play with the people they know. Family members, RL friends and guildies. People prefer to be in this comfortable position of isolation from other with those they trust,a nd put all those they don't know afar.

    This si because most casual players want to play it like a co-op game with others around the, but not with them.

    Only change of something that isn't just a co-op leveling adventure is probably in indie mmos. Maybe EQ, TITAN, or, lookign at CCP's history, WOD.

    This!

    I love MMO's, but I love them primarily because I can play with close friends and keep playing beyond the limits of what a typical console-type co-op game can provide.   l love seeing other people around me and even interacting with them...when I choose too.  I even like reading some of the general chat.  It makes me feel like I'm with others as opposed to true solo games like Skyrim.  I also like crafting and interacting with others via buying and selling items.

    However, do not FORCE me to play with people in order to get things done.  If there are certain side quests that require groups, that's fine, so long as me skipping those doesn't make my character weaker because of it.  Just let me play how I want to play.  If I want to group up then let me do that, but if I don't then let me do that as well.

     this is the real beauty of the three man group, would it ever be implemented.

    3 man content would be extreme content for a solo player....but possible in many cases for really skilled players

    3 man content would be difficult for a duo...and very possible in most cases for skilled players

    3 man content would be normal difficulty for a three man group.

    thus all content generated for the game would be open to all playstyles, but not necessarily be easy. It gives players the ability to choose how they want to play and not be forced.

    so you go fill up the world with 1, 2 and 3 man content...and everyone wins content wise.

    makes sense to me..some of my best times in mmos were with just a couple of other people. Its just a better experience in my opinion.

     

  • GardavsshadeGardavsshade Cedar Springs, MIPosts: 761Member Uncommon

     Will we ever see a non-solo oriented mmo again?

     

    No, I doubt it to be honest. Not a AAA MMO at any rate. Those Devs are not making MMOs for people that want to group. They are making MMOs for everyone else.

    Most "potential" Players now don't want to group in a MMO, they are already "grouped" in Facebook, on their cellphone, their Ipads...

     

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 17,975Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by slowpoke68

    The most fun I have had playing an MMO over the last couple of years was playing on the EQ1 time lock progression server.  Got in on launch day...found a group of people, went some where, and killed mobs together.  We actually chatted and socialized while doing it.  No worrying about what quest everyone had and what step they were on, and you didn't see people running by ignoring each other because they were so caught up in whatever solo goal they were working on.  People actually went out of their way to group.  As a result you actually saw a community forming.

    Had a blast for about a month, then SOE had the massive server hack problem, and by the time the servers came back up I got busy irl and never went back,

    Anyway, my point is, will we ever see this game design again?  Every MMO since WoW seems to be a leveling experience of running around solo and occasionally grouping to do whatever instance happens to be on level.  No real need to interact with others except for end game raiding.

    World of darkness online.... 

    I do agree, the market have room for a good group oriented game focused on social playing. I dont think we will see any new MMOs exactly like the old classics though but some games with a lot more social interaction will show up.

    Seems like CCP will be first out, their social mechanics with player run cities and political backstabbing might take the genre into a new direction.

  • GardavsshadeGardavsshade Cedar Springs, MIPosts: 761Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by Grimlock426
    Originally posted by MMOwanderer

    I never played EQ1, but, if you're refering to AAA, high budget game, then, extremely unlikely.

    The mmo playerbase nowadays wants to play with the people they know. Family members, RL friends and guildies. People prefer to be in this comfortable position of isolation from other with those they trust,a nd put all those they don't know afar.

    This si because most casual players want to play it like a co-op game with others around the, but not with them.

    Only change of something that isn't just a co-op leveling adventure is probably in indie mmos. Maybe EQ, TITAN, or, lookign at CCP's history, WOD.

    This!

    I love MMO's, but I love them primarily because I can play with close friends and keep playing beyond the limits of what a typical console-type co-op game can provide.   l love seeing other people around me and even interacting with them...when I choose too.  I even like reading some of the general chat.  It makes me feel like I'm with others as opposed to true solo games like Skyrim.  I also like crafting and interacting with others via buying and selling items.

    However, do not FORCE me to play with people in order to get things done.  If there are certain side quests that require groups, that's fine, so long as me skipping those doesn't make my character weaker because of it.  Just let me play how I want to play.  If I want to group up then let me do that, but if I don't then let me do that as well.

    Exactly why we won't ever see the group oriented MMO again, the majority of the market thinks like this.

    The rest of us are firmly in the niche and no major Dev house will ever be able to cater to that, the economics just don't make sense.

     

    Sad but True Kyleran.

  • Pratt2112Pratt2112 Posts: 1,536Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by slowpoke68

    The most fun I have had playing an MMO over the last couple of years was playing on the EQ1 time lock progression server.  Got in on launch day...found a group of people, went some where, and killed mobs together.  We actually chatted and socialized while doing it.  No worrying about what quest everyone had and what step they were on, and you didn't see people running by ignoring each other because they were so caught up in whatever solo goal they were working on.  People actually went out of their way to group.  As a result you actually saw a community forming.

    Had a blast for about a month, then SOE had the massive server hack problem, and by the time the servers came back up I got busy irl and never went back,

    Anyway, my point is, will we ever see this game design again?  Every MMO since WoW seems to be a leveling experience of running around solo and occasionally grouping to do whatever instance happens to be on level.  No real need to interact with others except for end game raiding.

     

     

    Regarding your first paragraph...  You've described a piece of what made early MMORPGs great. They were populated by people who enjoyed logging in to a virtual world, hanging out with other people to do "whatever". They treated it like a hobby, or a pastime, not a "second job", not an "obligation" like some people describe it these days. They didn't treat it like some race to an arbitrary, self-imposed finish line.

    Like yourself, people would form parties and go out to kill mobs for a while, talking, joking around, in many cases forming unexpected friendships that could last for years - and having fun along the way. Hours could go by in what seemed like minutes and in many cases, folks were having so much fun that it was a bummer when it inevitably had to end. The killing and xp'ing became almost secondary, taking a backseat to the fun of hanging out and interacting with other players who, like yourself, weren't only concerned with "their DPS/hr", "how efficient the group was" or "how many levels they could get before they logged out". It was about the adventure and the experience, not the "payoff".

    It was about the experience of being in a virtual world, not racing through and "beating it".

    In Asheron's Call 2, while I played it (and from what I've seen in AC1 as well), groups would get together to go run missions, or to go through Vaults. They may have done those missions or vaults dozens of times before, and there was absolutely nothing of great value they would get at the end of it. But that didn't matter, because that's not why they were there. They were there for the fun of, again, hanging out in a group and just having fun doing whatever they were doing. They weren't concerned with whether or not they got a rare drop, or how optimally the group was configured. There didn't have to be "something in it for them" for people to help someone else out. They did it because it was fun.

    When I see someone these days saying "oh people only grouped because they had to, and because there were so few other MMOs on the market", or ""people who enjoy long grinds to end-game are masochists without jobs who live in their parents basement", I see someone who simply doesn't get it and will only judge things on their own limited (and often closed-minded and incomplete) understanding of it.

    People absolutely had lives, and jobs and families and even ran their own businesses back then. What was different - and this is the key part many fail (or refuse) to understand these days - is that they played for entirely different reasons than people play today. "Getting to level cap quickly" is expected, even demanded these days. Back then, "level cap" was some abstract, far-off concept; somewhere they'd get to eventually. What was more important to them was having fun with whatever they were doing "right now". If someone back then only had an hour to play, they didn't feel like their time was wasted if "they didn't gain a level" or "get a drop" or whatever. They logged in, did whatever they found enjoyable for that hour, and then logged out.

    As for your last bit... We'll see it again, but not from a major developer. They're not interested in group-centric MMOs because that's not where the big money is. And the big money is what they're ultimately interested in. The player experience is driven by bean counters doing "market research". It's not decided by asking "what would provide the best all-around gaming experience for the playerbase we're targeting, even if market research shows it's not the most profitable way to go?".

    If you want games that are designed around the player experience and not the bottom line - kinda like how the 1st and 2nd Gen MMOs were, you're gonna have to look to indie developers, or independently owned companies; the kind of companies led by people who still have the passion for creating an awesome game experience that drove the creation of all those original MMOs that got the genre started to begin with.

     

  • Muerte_XMuerte_X ventura, CAPosts: 104Member
    Originally posted by APRIME
    Originally posted by Muerte_X
    Originally posted by maplestone
    Originally posted by Muerte_X

    I pose this question: if you want play almost entirely solo, why are you playing an MMO?

    *points to the group-vs-solo sticky thread attached permanently to the top the forum*

    This question is asked a lot and answered a lot.

    Sticky or no, it is still relevant to this thread and the discussion around it :) Although you are right, it is beaten to death :/

     

    It wouldn't be beaten to death if the pro-group players didn't keep asking why play an mmo if you solo, right?

     

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/06/05/the-soapbox-why-solo-players-dont-just-play-a-single-player-ga/

     

    Well I guess it wouldn't need to be beaten to death if Wow didn't get a SPRPG in our MMO'S :O Look, I know the market demographics have changed, but the lack of variety in current titles is mind-numbing... All are solo-centric.

    And please don't say GW2. I am enjoying GW, but have not actually found a reason to talk with anyone in game except for a ty for a rez. Yes, you do things with others. But without the need for any form of communication.

    Edit: I have no problem with solo-centric MMO's; I don't wish for them to fail, or any of that. I am glad people enjoy them. But I would love to see Variety in the market. I see very little atm.

    Often lurking, rarely posting

  • David_LopanDavid_Lopan Madison, WIPosts: 808Member Uncommon
    Hmm, guess im just old school. Single player games are solo, multiplayer games are for groups. Now I am all about making content  smaller group friendly, even duo's (dungoens and content should scale to the group level and size), but we have become pretty anti social as of late in our games, at least in terms of grouping (not talking about smack talk and general chat chatter). These new guilds with 200+ people that dont play together makes no sense to me, silly really. They just shout jokes and say welcome but when someone asks to do something it just silence(obvousily not all guilds, but a lot). Makes me think more and more people are born slightly autistic or are just too clicky.
  • 7star7star SeoulPosts: 405Member
    Originally posted by Ban_Khaeros

    LF QL8 tank for Hell Fallen, pst

     

    Necro MM 4/4 t1 w/ t1 weapon for AM

     

    r7 LF r-spike

     

    Need healer for vault, be geared, pst

     

    3 dps for NM Ankh be 2000 ap+ 

     

    This is exactly why I'm not playing TSW right now. I like a lot of aspects of that game, but not this.  

     

    I don't like games where the group content is designed to promote this kind of activity at all.

     

  • ArglebargleArglebargle Austin, TXPosts: 1,415Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Tibernicus

    Sadly, GW2 is probably as close as we'll get to seeing a AAA MMORPG embrace being an MMO again.

    Even though all singleplayer styled MMOs have failed over the years, more publishers will keep trying them.

    Vanguard was the last AAA MMO to embrace it.

     

    Originally posted by Kost
    God I hope not.

    Go play a singleplayer game, troll.

     

    Originally posted by maji
    MMORPGs are for the masses. The masses don't want to be forced to look for other people to team up with.

    You say that, but games like SWTOR, Rift, AoC, are all horrible failures mainly BECAUSE they're solo oriented.

    All this assumption, without the stuff to back it up. 

    Anytime anyone calls for 'a True MMO', it's a sign of narrowcasting.

    You know, according to your claims, most MMOs, single or group, have failed over the years.  Hmnn...

    I think your definition and assignation of 'horrible failure' needs a review.

     

     

    Most changes that developer teams made from the first halting steps of the original MMOs were because of problems that came from their particular rules and setup.   Not to say all attempted fixes worked well, but ignoring the original problems while positing some super savior is a bad move.

     

     

     

     

     

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • Grimlock426Grimlock426 Sacramento, CAPosts: 159Member
    Originally posted by Gardavsshade
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by Grimlock426
    Originally posted by MMOwanderer

    I never played EQ1, but, if you're refering to AAA, high budget game, then, extremely unlikely.

    The mmo playerbase nowadays wants to play with the people they know. Family members, RL friends and guildies. People prefer to be in this comfortable position of isolation from other with those they trust,a nd put all those they don't know afar.

    This si because most casual players want to play it like a co-op game with others around the, but not with them.

    Only change of something that isn't just a co-op leveling adventure is probably in indie mmos. Maybe EQ, TITAN, or, lookign at CCP's history, WOD.

    This!

    I love MMO's, but I love them primarily because I can play with close friends and keep playing beyond the limits of what a typical console-type co-op game can provide.   l love seeing other people around me and even interacting with them...when I choose too.  I even like reading some of the general chat.  It makes me feel like I'm with others as opposed to true solo games like Skyrim.  I also like crafting and interacting with others via buying and selling items.

    However, do not FORCE me to play with people in order to get things done.  If there are certain side quests that require groups, that's fine, so long as me skipping those doesn't make my character weaker because of it.  Just let me play how I want to play.  If I want to group up then let me do that, but if I don't then let me do that as well.

    Exactly why we won't ever see the group oriented MMO again, the majority of the market thinks like this.

    The rest of us are firmly in the niche and no major Dev house will ever be able to cater to that, the economics just don't make sense.

     

    Sad but True Kyleran.

    I'm not understanding what' sad about it or why it's such a dificult concept for many to accept?  Many of us want to be around other people, have the 'option' to interact with other people, actively group and play with close friends, talk to other people, trade crafts with other people, and yes even group up and make friends with new people and play with them....we just dont' want to be FORCED to do it.  Pretty simple concept really. 

  • TeknoBugTeknoBug Calgary, ABPosts: 2,156Member

    Guild Wars 2 is barely solo-orientated... so there you go, and games like Age of Wulin and ArchAge will be team-orientated as far as I know.

    image
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  • chefdiablochefdiablo Barrie, ONPosts: 202Member

    I think the biggest difference between the majority of online gamers then and now is the mindset.

    Online gamers back then all had the same views and understanding of why grouping was important. Along with that, the population was made up of known players. A reputation was important and could wreck the game experience if you did not play well with others.

    These days the communities are compiled of so many people and they are anonymous for the most part.

    Old MMO's felt like a small town community. You knew almost everyone by name and reputation.

    New MMO's feel like a huge city. You know people but you don't know everyone. There are good, bad, crazy, lazy, and everything in between. You don't walk around making friends with all of them because the result can be dangerous, or just frustrating on unimagineable levels.

    This can't be reversed except through some sort of niche game or closed server project. The genre has grown too large for that I fear.

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 17,975Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aquazen
    Hmm, guess im just old school. Single player games are solo, multiplayer games are for groups. Now I am all about making content  smaller group friendly, even duo's (dungoens and content should scale to the group level and size), but we have become pretty anti social as of late in our games, at least in terms of grouping (not talking about smack talk and general chat chatter). These new guilds with 200+ people that dont play together makes no sense to me, silly really. They just shout jokes and say welcome but when someone asks to do something it just silence(obvousily not all guilds, but a lot). Makes me think more and more people are born slightly autistic or are just too clicky.

    Lol, I know what you mean. But I blame both the officers and the games.

    In the old time when a new player joined the older players did some stuff with her and generally helped out and that worked downward so when a new player joined later the older players were also being helpful.

    Right now I have only IRL friends and their IRL friends in my guild, we like to LAN up at a buddies place and do stuff for a weekend. 

    But I think that the game have been putting to much focus on you, it is all about your level and your loot instead of ours as it often were back in the days.

    The games needs to add more stuff that the guilds do together. Build your own guildcity and let each player design a little bit would be one fun way to bring people together but there are plenty others.

  • SuprGamerXSuprGamerX Montreal, QCPosts: 531Member

     Been reading this thread for 2 minutes and I  just had to drop by and write my mind. 

    For starters , a MMO ain't suppose to be about solo play , if it is , then don't ask yourselves why all the latest releases are failling left and right , yes yes , even GW2 will start to fail , I'm giving it till the end of it's 1st month of release , like I've been saying for the last couple of weeks.

     MMO's with the best communities out there , are rare , but are still there and going quite strong with little botting 

    Nexus : The Kingdom of the Winds

    DarkAges

    EVE-Online (By far the best community out there) (Yes you got botters , but you get to hunt them down , which is great!)

    almost anything released before 2004 (WoW release) still has a good community for the most part. 

    Except maybe for Ragnarok Online , if you're not botting, you're considered a loser.

  • EllieAnneEllieAnne Seattle, WAPosts: 23Member
    The problem you have with group oriented MMOs would be what do you do if no one is on?  There were many time I had to run around as the squishy healer unable to finish a quest because no one was around.  OK, so now you make the characters multipurpose enough to do a little of everything so now loners go out and do the quests alone.  So now you make it harder to solo with harder mobs or requiring a party of 2+ to finish a quest and we're right back where I started with what do you do if no one is around?
  • FangrimFangrim PrestonPosts: 589Member
    Originally posted by EllieAnne
    The problem you have with group oriented MMOs would be what do you do if no one is on?  There were many time I had to run around as the squishy healer unable to finish a quest because no one was around.  OK, so now you make the characters multipurpose enough to do a little of everything so now loners go out and do the quests alone.  So now you make it harder to solo with harder mobs or requiring a party of 2+ to finish a quest and we're right back where I started with what do you do if no one is around?

     You play a solo game not an MMO.

    Gnome Wankers two.After the events of 18/07/2015 i fucking hate anyone that has anything to do with skyforge
    image

  • EllieAnneEllieAnne Seattle, WAPosts: 23Member
    Originally posted by Fangrim
    Originally posted by EllieAnne
    The problem you have with group oriented MMOs would be what do you do if no one is on?  There were many time I had to run around as the squishy healer unable to finish a quest because no one was around.  OK, so now you make the characters multipurpose enough to do a little of everything so now loners go out and do the quests alone.  So now you make it harder to solo with harder mobs or requiring a party of 2+ to finish a quest and we're right back where I started with what do you do if no one is around?

     You play a solo game not an MMO.

    Still doesn't answer the question.  In a group oriented MMO, what do you do if there's no one around to group with?

  • funyahnsfunyahns michigan city, INPosts: 315Member
    I would like to see a bit of a return Everquest. I had hopes for eq next but I doubt anything will come of it.
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