Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

GW2: Good Game but Boring Combat

13»

Comments

  • BoardwalkerBoardwalker Austin, TXPosts: 384Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aelious

     It's deeper than this.  Which heal, utilities and traits you use multiplies the process.  Take into account how many different boons and conditions there are in GW2 as well.  Combo fields... You have a lot of options in combat for every profession.  If the criteria for "best combat" is the amount of things taken into consideration when building and putting you avatar in combat GW2 is really good.

     

    I'm not going to argue which game has better combat though because that can come down to preference.  For me I'm finding GW2 to be better because 1/2 my build is done up front and the other half is done on the fly while I'm in combat, fun combat being able to freely move around.

    And I appreciate that. But in TSW, you also have similar things to think about: which actives do I use, which weapon combos suit my style, which burst, blast, hinder, and impair abilties do I use, what passives best complement my actives, what sequence of actives best maximizes my combat, etc. Also in TSW can you move around while casting, just like GW2. Add to TSW's list of features that you can use any weapon or ability in the game on a single character because it is classless, and you've got a good argument that TSW's combat, and character building, is as good as GW2's, if not better.

     

    I'm not arguing that one game is better than the other. Both are good, and I plan to play both. But to say that GW2 combat is better than other MMOs is subjective and limited by the number of games that you've played.

    They can adjust a game all day, but they can't help the issue between the keyboard and the chair.
    Played: UO, DAoC, AC, WoW, EVE, TR, WAR, Aion, Rift, SWTOR, GW2, TSW, ESO, Elite:D
    Play EVE for free for 21 days

  • KrytycalKrytycal Miami, FLPosts: 520Member
    Originally posted by Aelious
    Originally posted by Boardwalker

    Wow, a lot of fans here. I'm happy for GW2. But anyone who thinks that GW2 combat is better than other MMOs is just plain wrong. Tera is better. TSW is on par. RaiderZ will be right in the mix.

     

    Maybe people are confusing combat animations with combat mechanics, because GW2 certainly does the animations well. That might be the only thing about its combat that is better than say, TSW.

     

    So no, managing cooldowns, being aware of when to use situational abilities, evading when necessary--none of these things are unique to GW2 or make it hands down better than other MMOs in terms of combat mechanics.

     

    It's deeper than this.  Which heal, utilities and traits you use multiplies the process.  Take into account how many different boons and conditions there are in GW2 as well.  Combo fields... You have a lot of options in combat for every profession.  If the criteria for "best combat" is the amount of things taken into consideration when building and putting you avatar in combat GW2 is really good.

     

    I'm not going to argue which game has better combat though because that can come down to preference.  For me I'm finding GW2 to be better because 1/2 my build is done up front and the other half is done on the fly while I'm in combat, fun combat being able to freely move around.

    I don't think anyone here is saying that GW2 combat is better or worse, what people are saying is that its combat is not overly different from several other MMORPGs. Yes, buffs/debuffs are called Boons in GW2, resource building/spending is slightly different for some classes, CC is shorter, as is stealth. Additional ability bars are hidden in the form of weapon swaps/toolkits, positioning and dodging is very important, etc. All of this has been done before in MMORPGs, and it probably explains why the OP, who doesn't seem to like the combat of traditional MMORPGs, is not enjoying GW2's combat.

    As far as MMORPG combat goes, GW2's is pretty good, but if you don't enjoy that type of combat, you probably won't like GW2.

     

  • EberhardtEberhardt Killeen, TXPosts: 155Member
    Originally posted by grapevine
    Originally posted by Volkon
    Originally posted by grapevine

    I'm enjoying the combat, but it is very spamming and simplistic.

     

    Also noticed they claim the trinity doesn't exist, but you can still build and gear into it.   Once you do you are basically OP, at least as tank with HP regen (i.e. playing a Warrior).  Only thing actually missing is aggro control, so if its lost its not easy getting it back.

    Be careful... that's somewhat feasible in the low level zones, but as you progress and the mobs become more difficult (and intelligent) you'll find yourself having extreme issues. You really need to dump the "role" concept and think fresh.

     

    I'm in the level 25+ zone.   Those specs work.

    Not really, they work for about 5 minutes until that mob regens its health or teleports to you or stealths and your left juggling cool downs and get burned. Also don't work that well in the dungeons.

    I'm sure it works but doesn't work as well as the more viable builds.

  • mithranftwmithranftw Seattle, WAPosts: 14Member
    Originally posted by Boardwalker

    Wow, a lot of fans here. I'm happy for GW2. But anyone who thinks that GW2 combat is better than other MMOs is just plain wrong. Tera is better. TSW is on par. RaiderZ will be right in the mix.

     

    Maybe people are confusing combat animations with combat mechanics, because GW2 certainly does the animations well. That might be the only thing about its combat that is better than say, TSW.

     

    So no, managing cooldowns, being aware of when to use situational abilities, evading when necessary--none of these things are unique to GW2 or make it hands down better than other MMOs in terms of combat mechanics.

    I very much agree with this.  GW2 combat is definitely the weakest part of the game for me.  After playing Tera, I'm trying to tolerate the lackluster combat in GW2 until I get higher level and get to the first dungeon but so far there's really little satisfaction at level 15.  Feels like one big zergfest.

    image
  • BoardwalkerBoardwalker Austin, TXPosts: 384Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Krytycal

    I don't think anyone here is saying that GW2 combat is better or worse, what people are saying is that its combat is not overly different from several other MMORPGs. Yes, buffs/debuffs are called Boons in GW2, resource building/spending is slightly different for some classes, CC is shorter, as is stealth. Additional ability bars are hidden in the form of weapon swaps/toolkits, positioning and dodging is very important, etc. All of this has been done before in MMORPGs, and it probably explains why the OP, who doesn't seem to like the combat of traditional MMORPGs, is not enjoying GW2's combat.

     

    As far as MMORPG combat goes, GW2's is pretty good, but if you don't enjoy that type of combat, you probably won't like GW2.

    Good explanation. I can see your point and I agree. And don't get me wrong, I like GW2's combat just fine, I just wanted to point out that it isn't significantly better than other games out there, at least to me.

    They can adjust a game all day, but they can't help the issue between the keyboard and the chair.
    Played: UO, DAoC, AC, WoW, EVE, TR, WAR, Aion, Rift, SWTOR, GW2, TSW, ESO, Elite:D
    Play EVE for free for 21 days

  • BloodaxesBloodaxes ZabbarPosts: 2,651Member Uncommon

    Same as OP apart that it wasn't tera for me but C9 (Continent of the ninth)

    I'm playing a mesmer and I'm still on the lower levels (lvl 11) but the first time I logged in gw2 I promptly turned my mouse to see if the camera rotates but it doesn't and was kinda let down a little. (Yes I know holding right click the camera rotates but it's annoying having to hold the right click 99% of the times)

    I hope the skill selection improves later on as on my mesmer most off hand weapons have roughly 3 skills each which is too low to choose from imo. It's not enough of a reason to quit the game yet as I like going out randomly and having tasks automatically shown on the screen and I'm not forced to do them but it's not exactly an action combat it's more of a hybrid same as TSW.

    But I will just say many people even ingame are seriously making me yawn in real praising this game as if it is the holy grail that will save the gaming industries because it's flawless with "no problems".... Even earlier the server I'm playing on was lagging like shit because people kept on logging on the full servers and these people always have an excuse for everything.

    I'm seriously contemplating on removing the chat window or switching to the combat tab for some days hopefully the holy grail talks will cease or lessen by a large margin.

    image

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,853Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Boardwalker
    Originally posted by Aelious

     It's deeper than this.  Which heal, utilities and traits you use multiplies the process.  Take into account how many different boons and conditions there are in GW2 as well.  Combo fields... You have a lot of options in combat for every profession.  If the criteria for "best combat" is the amount of things taken into consideration when building and putting you avatar in combat GW2 is really good.

     

    I'm not going to argue which game has better combat though because that can come down to preference.  For me I'm finding GW2 to be better because 1/2 my build is done up front and the other half is done on the fly while I'm in combat, fun combat being able to freely move around.

    And I appreciate that. But in TSW, you also have similar things to think about: which actives do I use, which weapon combos suit my style, which burst, blast, hinder, and impair abilties do I use, what passives best complement my actives, what sequence of actives best maximizes my combat, etc. Also in TSW can you move around while casting, just like GW2. Add to TSW's list of features that you can use any weapon or ability in the game on a single character because it is classless, and you've got a good argument that TSW's combat, and character building, is as good as GW2's, if not better.

     

    I'm not arguing that one game is better than the other. Both are good, and I plan to play both. But to say that GW2 combat is better than other MMOs is subjective and limited by the number of games that you've played.

     

    I played the TSW beta and studied the wheel so I'm not out of the loop but didn't get to go indepth.  Outside of that I have played all the major titles so I have a grasp on the differences between their combat systems.

     

    Regarding the TSW comparison there is a difference right up front.  In TSW everyone shares the same wheel and has the same choices when building a character.  That's not a bad thing just the way they chose to do it.  In GW2 weapon choice and the skills you get from them is also dependent on profession.  An Elementalist choosing dagger/dagger is going to have a completly different set of weapon skills than a Theif with dagger/dagger.  Add to that the fact Elementalists have 5x4 weapon skills with attunements while the Thief mixes weapon skills based on the combination of them things get hairy to compare.

     

    That's what's hard about gauging GW2's combat.  Each profession has different mechanics up front that make them different from all the others.  However if someone rolls a Warrior, for example, they may think the overall combat is not much different than any other game or even worse not realizing the other classes don't just get five abilities to the left depending on the weapons they have.  Guardians have Virtue skills, Mesmers have clone shatter options, Engineers have bonus skills depending on what abilities they have.  These are still seperate from the abilities on the right side.  Then you add the trait lines which change your build even further.

     

    When you finally get to combat this is how it can shake out.  I'll use a Guardian as an example because that's what I play.  Once in active combat I will have 10 weapon skills to choose from on my left depending on what two sets I chose.  Two seperate sets of five abilities.  Above those I will have my three virtues giving me passive buffs unless I use them for their active ability.  To my left I will have my chosen heal, my three normal abilities and my Elite Skill.  BTW my Elite skill is Tomb of Wrath so when I pop that the five buttons on me left change to the abilites I can use while Tomb of Wrath is up.  This is at the same time I am in active combat moving around, using active dodge and trying not to die.

     

    To me GW2 combat is the most fun I have had in a long time.

  • wowfan1996wowfan1996 NonePosts: 719Member
    Originally posted by Boardwalker
    When you say "perfect", are you talking about mechanics, or animations? Because that is not true of the mechanics. If it were, then GW2 would not be the only MMO with perfect combat mechanics--TSW would be as well.

    Both actually.

    I played MMOs where I had 30+ keybindings at once and while I was successfull enough it was literally painful sometimes. I played rogue in early WotLK and the highest PvE DPS build had 7 skills in the ST rotation. Halfway through Naxx I couldn't feel my left hand anymore. At some point I said "enough" and respecced for slightly less DPS but much more enjoyable gameplay.

    Then I played Rift and I had a mile-long macro on every key. Even for PvP.

    You see all of this was fun at times but now I really want something more stremlined and less painful. Maybe I'm just too old. :)

    P.S. And mobility. I like mobility. Well, thief is much like rogue classes in other games because they usually have only instant attacks anyway but other classes feel very different.

    MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).

  • ZuvielifyZuvielify Fremont, CAPosts: 168Member

    I agree with the OP entirely, and I have to agree with everyone else on the thief.

     

    My first character was a ranger, which I found to be just tedious. You stand there and spam your auto attack and then use any ability (that makes sense to use) as soon as it is off cooldown. If I was using a bow, and a mob ran up on me, I'd just switch to sword and own it. 

    Fact is, none of it is particularly interesting; combat is shallow, very shallow. Dodge is not as major a part of combat as everyone is pushing. Sure, it's important, but it doesn't make combat that much deeper. Your auto-attack may do four different things, but you have no control over it. There's not combo points to build up, no warrior rage-like mechanics. Nada. Every class I have played (ranger, ele, engi, mesmer) is auto-attack and wait for cooldowns. Hit your utility abilities when you can. 

     

    The only shining light in the whole game that breaks this mold is thief. Thief is fun. But, honestly, only a little bit more than the rest. 

  • redman875redman875 illinois, ILPosts: 230Member
    Originally posted by Zuvielify

    I agree with the OP entirely, and I have to agree with everyone else on the thief.

     

    My first character was a ranger, which I found to be just tedious. You stand there and spam your auto attack and then use any ability (that makes sense to use) as soon as it is off cooldown. If I was using a bow, and a mob ran up on me, I'd just switch to sword and own it. 

    Fact is, none of it is particularly interesting; combat is shallow, very shallow. Dodge is not as major a part of combat as everyone is pushing. Sure, it's important, but it doesn't make combat that much deeper. Your auto-attack may do four different things, but you have no control over it. There's not combo points to build up, no warrior rage-like mechanics. Nada. Every class I have played (ranger, ele, engi, mesmer) is auto-attack and wait for cooldowns. Hit your utility abilities when you can. 

     

    The only shining light in the whole game that breaks this mold is thief. Thief is fun. But, honestly, only a little bit more than the rest. 

    I remember people stating dodge was going to be sooo awesome.  I remember stating that in a tab target game all an active dodge is, is a way to get out of ground effects faster...or well...a cooler way to get out of ground effects and aoes...

    Yeah i know some classes get heals when you dodge ect.

     

    Active dodge in a tab target themepark is always going to be an animation gimmick.

  • kaiser3282kaiser3282 Phoenix, AZPosts: 2,690Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by redman875
    Originally posted by Zuvielify

    I agree with the OP entirely, and I have to agree with everyone else on the thief.

     

    My first character was a ranger, which I found to be just tedious. You stand there and spam your auto attack and then use any ability (that makes sense to use) as soon as it is off cooldown. If I was using a bow, and a mob ran up on me, I'd just switch to sword and own it. 

    Fact is, none of it is particularly interesting; combat is shallow, very shallow. Dodge is not as major a part of combat as everyone is pushing. Sure, it's important, but it doesn't make combat that much deeper. Your auto-attack may do four different things, but you have no control over it. There's not combo points to build up, no warrior rage-like mechanics. Nada. Every class I have played (ranger, ele, engi, mesmer) is auto-attack and wait for cooldowns. Hit your utility abilities when you can. 

     

    The only shining light in the whole game that breaks this mold is thief. Thief is fun. But, honestly, only a little bit more than the rest. 

    I remember people stating dodge was going to be sooo awesome.  I remember stating that in a tab target game all an active dodge is, is a way to get out of ground effects faster...or well...a cooler way to get out of ground effects and aoes...

    Yeah i know some classes get heals when you dodge ect.

     

    Active dodge in a tab target themepark is always going to be an animation gimmick.

    Do you play? Im guessing you dont if you think its only for AoEs. It evades single target attacks as well. Saved my ass many times when getting focus fired by multiple people. It not only evades the incoming attacks, but if youre slowed/chilled, it lets you get more distance between you and the target , or quickly get behing something for LoS, faster than trying to run while slowed.

    Its tab target yes, but attacks are not magically imbued with a homing device like in most games. If youre not near the spot the skill was aimed at, its not going to hit you. You can also take advantage of dodging by quickly rolling behing someone else and letting them take the hits intended for you since it will hit the whoever is in its path, not the the person you have targeted in most cases.

  • itgrowlsitgrowls newport news, VAPosts: 2,951Member
    Originally posted by Volkon
    Originally posted by BigHatLogan
    I think GW2 did a lot of things right in game design.  I like the classes, dynamic events are much more entertaining than questing in other MMORPGS (though still really not my thing), character development is interesting, and WvWvW is a great design.  The combat really falls short for me though.  It's better than WoW in that attacks can at least hit things you didn't have tab targetted and the dodge mechanic is ok, but it really seems to come down to coming up with a build and then just hitting hot keys when they come off cooldown.   I liked the combat in TERA a lot better but the rest of that game sucked pretty bad.  Hot key cool down just doesn't do it for me I guess.  Truth is, I probably just hate MMROPG's, at least until we get a real skill based action MMORPG that isn't just a mindless click fest. 

     

    Ah, found your problem. Keep in mind that your skills have the alleged "soft trinity" tied directly to them. So look at your skills and you'll notice that they have an assortment of damage, controlling and supporting aspects tied to them. For example, my mesmer with his greatsword has skill 1 as damage, 2 as damage and supporting allies, 3 as AoE damage, 4 as damage and control and 5 damage and control. 5 only works at close range, so spamming it off cooldown is a waste. 4 has a bit of a wind up and is best used early in combat, before they get close.

     

    In a nutshell, go look at your skills and what they really do. Then you'll need to learn to use them at the right times, not simply off cooldown when many useful attributes would be wastd.

    Agreed, this game is one of the few in a looong long time that you actually have to think about what you are doing when fighting.

  • itgrowlsitgrowls newport news, VAPosts: 2,951Member
    Originally posted by kaiser3282
    Originally posted by redman875
    Originally posted by Zuvielify

    I agree with the OP entirely, and I have to agree with everyone else on the thief.

     

    My first character was a ranger, which I found to be just tedious. You stand there and spam your auto attack and then use any ability (that makes sense to use) as soon as it is off cooldown. If I was using a bow, and a mob ran up on me, I'd just switch to sword and own it. 

    Fact is, none of it is particularly interesting; combat is shallow, very shallow. Dodge is not as major a part of combat as everyone is pushing. Sure, it's important, but it doesn't make combat that much deeper. Your auto-attack may do four different things, but you have no control over it. There's not combo points to build up, no warrior rage-like mechanics. Nada. Every class I have played (ranger, ele, engi, mesmer) is auto-attack and wait for cooldowns. Hit your utility abilities when you can. 

     

    The only shining light in the whole game that breaks this mold is thief. Thief is fun. But, honestly, only a little bit more than the rest. 

    I remember people stating dodge was going to be sooo awesome.  I remember stating that in a tab target game all an active dodge is, is a way to get out of ground effects faster...or well...a cooler way to get out of ground effects and aoes...

    Yeah i know some classes get heals when you dodge ect.

     

    Active dodge in a tab target themepark is always going to be an animation gimmick.

    Do you play? Im guessing you dont if you think its only for AoEs. It evades single target attacks as well. Saved my ass many times when getting focus fired by multiple people. It not only evades the incoming attacks, but if youre slowed/chilled, it lets you get more distance between you and the target , or quickly get behing something for LoS, faster than trying to run while slowed.

    Its tab target yes, but attacks are not magically imbued with a homing device like in most games. If youre not near the spot the skill was aimed at, its not going to hit you. You can also take advantage of dodging by quickly rolling behing someone else and letting them take the hits intended for you since it will hit the whoever is in its path, not the the person you have targeted in most cases.

    Exactly, many of my dodges came from straffing back and forth notably when fighting ranged.

  • IPolygonIPolygon ViennaPosts: 707Member Uncommon
    I don't agree with op. But I also play pvp where your skill choices actually make the difference of life and death. In pve the difference is not really visible whether you spam your attacks or you don't.
  • sargey123sargey123 HolonPosts: 102Member Uncommon
    I think the combat very good,not the best but very fun~ u dont need to hit everykey u just need to use the ones that needed.and know what every skill does
  • LordOfPitLordOfPit North Bay, ONPosts: 86Member
    Judging from your avatar image, OP, I imagine nothing short of a Skyrim or Dark Souls MMO — that replicates the exact mechanics of the single-player version — would satisfy you. image
  • SignexSignex BeertaPosts: 80Member

    I really like the mesmer combat with sword, but all classes are fun.

    What i also like is every weapon has different skills.

    image

  • SenanSenan Tuscaloosa, ALPosts: 783Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by LordOfPit
    Judging from your avatar image, OP, I imagine nothing short of a Skyrim or Dark Souls MMO — that replicates the exact mechanics of the single-player version — would satisfy you. image

    Is that a bad thing? He's not the only one who would appreciate a more console-centric combat system in an mmo.

    image
  • dontadowdontadow Detroit, MIPosts: 1,044Member

    I find these bcomments come from people who havn't played past level 20.  It's so precices when the mobs get harder when you use your control abilities, when u use area effects and when you do other things.  

    Its the most satisfying combat i've ever played in an mmo.  I have an engineer with bombs and a rifle.  Thinking about what i'm fighting, who is around me and what needs to be done is ver yimportant.  

    Yeah, heart quest mobs below 20 are fairly easy, yo ucan't say that after. 

  • khamul787khamul787 Garland, TXPosts: 193Member
    Originally posted by Boardwalker

    Wow, a lot of fans here. I'm happy for GW2. But anyone who thinks that GW2 combat is better than other MMOs is just plain wrong. Tera is better. TSW is on par. RaiderZ will be right in the mix.

     

    Maybe people are confusing combat animations with combat mechanics, because GW2 certainly does the animations well. That might be the only thing about its combat that is better than say, TSW.

     

    So no, managing cooldowns, being aware of when to use situational abilities, evading when necessary--none of these things are unique to GW2 or make it hands down better than other MMOs in terms of combat mechanics.

    I just had to respond to this. What a stunningly arrogant post. "I don't like GW2 combat, so it is objectively worse than Tera, TSW, and most other MMOs combat." What? No. Do you know what an opinion is? Apparently not. I think GW2's combat is better than Tera because I don't like Tera's animation locks or trinity system. And I think GW2's combat is *far* better than TSW's combo - 1,1,1,1,1, 5! - system. 

    However, I'm not going to stand here and tell you I'm right and you're wrong, because this isn't an objective issue. Get your head out of your ass and see that. You like TSW and Tera combat more; great, wonderful. This does not make GW2 have bad combat, it just means you don't like it.

    image

13»
Sign In or Register to comment.