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GW2: Good Game but Boring Combat

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  • kaiser3282kaiser3282 Phoenix, AZPosts: 2,663Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Krytycal
    Originally posted by Loke666

    I am playing a thief, we dont have cooldowns for our attacks, just for some utility skills. Instead you use initiative that slowly fills up and if you spams you skills you will die fast.

    I have not played all classes so OP might be right about some but in my expeirence you really need to time some skills when you play or die.

    Compared to traditional MMO combat like say, EQ2 this is rather different, you must move almost all the time and positioning and the timing of certain skills is life and death.

    Of course the first few levels you can probably just spam the keys but it wont work for long. Make a thief OP.

    What you described is basically how the "rogue" or "assassin" classes are played in a slew of MMOs. You have attacks that build initiative, you have finishers that consume it. You need to know when to use which, when it's best to blow your load, and when it's best to GTFO. Moving and positioning has always been important in every MMO I've played. It's really no different in GW2.

    The only aspect in GW2's PvP I'd call remotely innovative is the fact there are no dedicated healers.

    Theres some misunderstanding. You dont build it up to use finishers. Its similar to Action Points in WAR i guess. You start with full Initiative, and most of your skills cost X points of Initiative. It slowly regens after you spend it, and if youre not careful youll run out quickly and not be able to use any of the skills besides your #1 when you need it. There are also ways to spec which increase Max Initiative, Initiative regen speed, gaining regen with certain triggers (like every time you stealth), and a couple of skills that instantly gain you some initiative.

    Aside fromt hat, one of the biggest differences with a Thief vs that type of class in other MMOs is the lack of stealth that is useful for sneaking up and ambushing people. Your stealth is normally trigger by using certain attacks, it requires them to land to trigger stealth, and they generally put you in stealth for only 2-4 or 5 seconds (usually just enough to gain some distance to get away, or to get behind them for a back attack before it wears off). Its not the typical stealth as soon as you see someone and then stealth up for awhile as you try to catch up tot hem and gank them before they can react thief/assassin/rogue style.

  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member
    Originally posted by grapevine

    I'm enjoying the combat, but it is very spamming and simplistic.

     

    Also noticed they claim the trinity doesn't exist, but you can still build and gear into it.   Once you do you are basically OP, at least as tank with HP regen (i.e. playing a Warrior).  Only thing actually missing is aggro control, so if its lost its not easy getting it back.

    Be careful... that's somewhat feasible in the low level zones, but as you progress and the mobs become more difficult (and intelligent) you'll find yourself having extreme issues. You really need to dump the "role" concept and think fresh.

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

  • EberhardtEberhardt Killeen, TXPosts: 155Member
    Originally posted by grapevine

    I'm enjoying the combat, but it is very spamming and simplistic.

     

    Also noticed they claim the trinity doesn't exist, but you can still build and gear into it.   Once you do you are basically OP, at least as tank with HP regen (i.e. playing a Warrior).  Only thing actually missing is aggro control, so if its lost its not easy getting it back.

    I think that's the point you have to break your class and build into it to get the trinity. What's more is that other classes can easily do your job. A mesmer can tank if he/she wants to. Just take initial aggro and keep spawning clones and running or use chaos armor. The point is there are no dedicated tank classes no dedicated healing class or dps class. Every class can do just about everything and everyone can heal themselves and for a substantial amount.

  • grapevinegrapevine PeterboroughPosts: 1,927Member
    Originally posted by Volkon
    Originally posted by grapevine

    I'm enjoying the combat, but it is very spamming and simplistic.

     

    Also noticed they claim the trinity doesn't exist, but you can still build and gear into it.   Once you do you are basically OP, at least as tank with HP regen (i.e. playing a Warrior).  Only thing actually missing is aggro control, so if its lost its not easy getting it back.

    Be careful... that's somewhat feasible in the low level zones, but as you progress and the mobs become more difficult (and intelligent) you'll find yourself having extreme issues. You really need to dump the "role" concept and think fresh.

     

    I'm in the level 25+ zone.   Those specs work.

  • elockeelocke Manassas, VAPosts: 4,205Member Uncommon
    One word.  Dungeons.  Seriously, don't complain about the combat until you've done the dungeons.  Those require swapping skills out in order to support the party and more sensible use of your weapon skills as opposed to just trying to dps something down.  Seriously.  Ran Ascalon Catacombs last night and it was the hardest dungeon I have ever faced in any MMO.  And that was STORY MODE, rofl.  I'm almost afraid to try Exploration mode as I hear that's harder. 
    image
  • MephsterMephster Tyria, NJPosts: 1,188Member
    A mindless clickfest ? I'm shocked really I am...

    Grim Dawn, the next great action rpg!

    http://www.grimdawn.com/

  • grapevinegrapevine PeterboroughPosts: 1,927Member
    Originally posted by Eberhardt
    Originally posted by grapevine

    I'm enjoying the combat, but it is very spamming and simplistic.

     

    Also noticed they claim the trinity doesn't exist, but you can still build and gear into it.   Once you do you are basically OP, at least as tank with HP regen (i.e. playing a Warrior).  Only thing actually missing is aggro control, so if its lost its not easy getting it back.

    I think that's the point you have to break your class and build into it to get the trinity. What's more is that other classes can easily do your job. A mesmer can tank if he/she wants to. Just take initial aggro and keep spawning clones and running or use chaos armor. The point is there are no dedicated tank classes no dedicated healing class or dps class. Every class can do just about everything and everyone can heal themselves and for a substantial amount.

     

    Don't need to break ones class at all.  The game just isn't balanced for a trinity build.

     

    For a Warrior, use thoughness and vitality gear, with some healing power.   Spec defence and tactics.   Equip a shield and sword, and there you have it.  Skill wise, use the signets with reg and damage mitigation, along with Endure Pain.

  • causscauss sonnegaPosts: 668Member

    I have to disagree. To me, it plays like a MOBA (For example League of Legends). You don't have a lot of skills to choose from, and people who just start will say; what? I only spam stuff! Without actually reading. But instead of having 3 hotbars full of nothing, you now have to position yourself.

    There is a lot of strategy involved later on, and it's not "just spamming hotkeys".

  • kaiser3282kaiser3282 Phoenix, AZPosts: 2,663Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by grapevine
    Originally posted by Eberhardt
    Originally posted by grapevine

    I'm enjoying the combat, but it is very spamming and simplistic.

     

    Also noticed they claim the trinity doesn't exist, but you can still build and gear into it.   Once you do you are basically OP, at least as tank with HP regen (i.e. playing a Warrior).  Only thing actually missing is aggro control, so if its lost its not easy getting it back.

    I think that's the point you have to break your class and build into it to get the trinity. What's more is that other classes can easily do your job. A mesmer can tank if he/she wants to. Just take initial aggro and keep spawning clones and running or use chaos armor. The point is there are no dedicated tank classes no dedicated healing class or dps class. Every class can do just about everything and everyone can heal themselves and for a substantial amount.

     

    Don't need to break ones class at all.  The game just isn't balanced for a trinity build.

     

    For a Warrior, use thoughness and vitality gear, with some healing power.   Spec defence and tactics.   Equip a shield and sword, and there you have it.  Skill wise, use the signets with reg and Endure Pain.

    It sound slike you misunderstood something along the way. They said there wont be a tanking role, as in having the sole purpose of taunting and taking all of the hits and not losing aggro, and having a tank being absolutely necessary to complete certain content because eveyone but a tank gets killed instantly.

    They never said you wont be able to build a defensive character capable of taking a lot of damage. Pretty sure they actually said that you could do exactly that. But to do it effectively you have to position yourself properly at all times between yourself and those you are protecting, and theres no sure way to keep the aggro on you while the rest of the group DPSes away without a care because theyre being completely ignored due to retarded tunt mechanics. Theres also the option of going with a CC build to shut down enemies as a way of protecting your group, rather than having to be the meat shield.

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,854Member Uncommon
    I guess it depends on how you want to play and how good you want to be. If I was an Elementalist I could spam Fire 1,2,3,4,5 then swap to Air 1,2,3,4,5 and do the same for Water and Earth but would I be very efficient?

    Part of what makes GW2 combat great is that the sea of buttons into different weapon sets or profession specific abilities. You still have a lot options, very different options in most cases, so if you're spamming away you are probably not being as effective as you could be.

    If you don't like the combat of one profession try another. They have very different mechanics from one another.
  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member
    Originally posted by grapevine
    Originally posted by Volkon
    Originally posted by grapevine

    I'm enjoying the combat, but it is very spamming and simplistic.

     

    Also noticed they claim the trinity doesn't exist, but you can still build and gear into it.   Once you do you are basically OP, at least as tank with HP regen (i.e. playing a Warrior).  Only thing actually missing is aggro control, so if its lost its not easy getting it back.

    Be careful... that's somewhat feasible in the low level zones, but as you progress and the mobs become more difficult (and intelligent) you'll find yourself having extreme issues. You really need to dump the "role" concept and think fresh.

     

    I'm in the level 25+ zone.   Those specs work.

    So you're just getting to dungeon levels, and haven't had the chance to experience explorer mode dungeons. Keep in mind, that's all I'm saying, that you may need to balance things and adjust your combat when the content picks up in difficulty.

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

  • Angier2758Angier2758 Mt. Prospect, ILPosts: 1,011Member
    Originally posted by observer
    The combat is alright.  The only thing i don't like about it?  Wasting cooldowns because i was out of range.  I'll just have to adapt though.

     Unlike the OP this is a real complaint...

     

    Fans can say it makes the game harder because you have to eyeball ranges and LOS.....

    It is kind of annoying your 45 sec cooldown gets blown because the person is slightly out of range.

  • grapevinegrapevine PeterboroughPosts: 1,927Member
    Originally posted by kaiser3282
    Originally posted by grapevine
    Originally posted by Eberhardt
    Originally posted by grapevine

    I'm enjoying the combat, but it is very spamming and simplistic.

     

    Also noticed they claim the trinity doesn't exist, but you can still build and gear into it.   Once you do you are basically OP, at least as tank with HP regen (i.e. playing a Warrior).  Only thing actually missing is aggro control, so if its lost its not easy getting it back.

    I think that's the point you have to break your class and build into it to get the trinity. What's more is that other classes can easily do your job. A mesmer can tank if he/she wants to. Just take initial aggro and keep spawning clones and running or use chaos armor. The point is there are no dedicated tank classes no dedicated healing class or dps class. Every class can do just about everything and everyone can heal themselves and for a substantial amount.

     

    Don't need to break ones class at all.  The game just isn't balanced for a trinity build.

     

    For a Warrior, use thoughness and vitality gear, with some healing power.   Spec defence and tactics.   Equip a shield and sword, and there you have it.  Skill wise, use the signets with reg and Endure Pain.

    It sound slike you misunderstood something along the way. They said there wont be a tanking role, as in having the sole purpose of taunting and taking all of the hits and not losing aggro, and having a tank being absolutely necessary to complete certain content because eveyone but a tank gets killed instantly.

    They never said you wont be able to build a defensive character capable of taking a lot of damage. Pretty sure they actually said that you could do exactly that. But to do it effectively you have to position yourself properly at all times between yourself and those you are protecting, and theres no sure way to keep the aggro on you while the rest of the group DPSes away without a care because theyre being completely ignored due to retarded tunt mechanics. Theres also the option of going with a CC build to shut down enemies as a way of protecting your group, rather than having to be the meat shield.

     

    Would be true, if hadn't just been doing that.  Standing with all the mobs around me, while others just nuke and assist heal/buff defence where possible.   Yes one can't stand static, having to move and dodge still, to allow hp to regen, but when all mobs are on you and holding aggro then that's tanking.

     

    As I said the only issue is aggro control, if dps goes crazy.

  • gogysbgogysb Slavonski BrodPosts: 6Member

    Hi.

    I just decided to post for the first time 2 reply to this thread.

    What are you smoking?

    On that note Blizzard released more epic MoP ss on fb, srsly noone cares Blizzard.
    GW2 is such a superior game it ain't even funny, I'd kill myself returning to WoW combat/quests.
    Better hurry up Titan.

  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member
    Originally posted by Angier2758
    Originally posted by observer
    The combat is alright.  The only thing i don't like about it?  Wasting cooldowns because i was out of range.  I'll just have to adapt though.

     Unlike the OP this is a real complaint...

     

    Fans can say it makes the game harder because you have to eyeball ranges and LOS.....

    It is kind of annoying your 45 sec cooldown gets blown because the person is slightly out of range.

    If you look at the skills, those with range (when you have a target) will have a red line under them if you're out of range. The bar goes away when you're in range.

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

  • BoardwalkerBoardwalker Austin, TXPosts: 384Member Uncommon

    Wow, a lot of fans here. I'm happy for GW2. But anyone who thinks that GW2 combat is better than other MMOs is just plain wrong. Tera is better. TSW is on par. RaiderZ will be right in the mix.

     

    Maybe people are confusing combat animations with combat mechanics, because GW2 certainly does the animations well. That might be the only thing about its combat that is better than say, TSW.

     

    So no, managing cooldowns, being aware of when to use situational abilities, evading when necessary--none of these things are unique to GW2 or make it hands down better than other MMOs in terms of combat mechanics.

    They can adjust a game all day, but they can't help the issue between the keyboard and the chair.
    Played: UO, DAoC, AC, WoW, EVE, TR, WAR, Aion, Rift, SWTOR, GW2, TSW, ESO, Elite:D
    Play EVE for free for 21 days

  • wowfan1996wowfan1996 NonePosts: 719Member

    Two things:

    1) Wasting your c/ds just because they're available at the moment might be a very bad idea. It's all situational.

    2) The OP should try thief. Signets can be used as passives most of the time and weapon skills have no c/ds. Instead you have a limited resource (initiative) powering your attacks.

    MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 18,045Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Krytycal
    Originally posted by Loke666

    I am playing a thief, we dont have cooldowns for our attacks, just for some utility skills. Instead you use initiative that slowly fills up and if you spams you skills you will die fast.

    I have not played all classes so OP might be right about some but in my expeirence you really need to time some skills when you play or die.

    Compared to traditional MMO combat like say, EQ2 this is rather different, you must move almost all the time and positioning and the timing of certain skills is life and death.

    Of course the first few levels you can probably just spam the keys but it wont work for long. Make a thief OP.

    What you described is basically how the "rogue" or "assassin" classes are played in a slew of MMOs. You have attacks that build initiative, you have finishers that consume it. You need to know when to use which, when it's best to blow your load, and when it's best to GTFO. Moving and positioning has always been important in every MMO I've played. It's really no different in GW2.

    The only aspect in GW2's PvP I'd call remotely innovative is the fact there are no dedicated healers.

    No, you dont attack to build initiative and all your attacks beside the first skill (basically the autoattack) cost initiative.

    You start with 10 points , attacks cost between 1 and 5 points and it regenrates 1 point a second or something like that.

    You do need to try it to really get it. And I been playing other rogue classes since Meridian 59, this one is very different.

  • wowfan1996wowfan1996 NonePosts: 719Member
    Originally posted by Boardwalker

    Tera is better.

    /sigh Tera combat is obviously worse (at least PvP-wise) as you can't cast/shoot on the run. GW2 combat is nearly perfect. I say nearly because the amount of spell effects can be overwhelming sometimes. This is pretty much my only negative observation so far.

    MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).

  • SojhinSojhin Tacoma, WAPosts: 213Member
    I am having random fun but having near lvl'd to 80 I have found the DE's more boring then the combat. I would second that WvWvW though I had no high hopes for it prior to launch has even been more a disappointment then I expected.
  • BoardwalkerBoardwalker Austin, TXPosts: 384Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by wowfan1996

    /sigh Tera combat is obviously worse (at least PvP-wise) as you can't cast/shoot on the run. GW2 combat is nearly perfect. I say nearly because the amount of spell effects can be overwhelming sometimes. This is pretty much my only negative observation so far.

    When you say "perfect", are you talking about mechanics, or animations? Because that is not true of the mechanics. If it were, then GW2 would not be the only MMO with perfect combat mechanics--TSW would be as well.

    They can adjust a game all day, but they can't help the issue between the keyboard and the chair.
    Played: UO, DAoC, AC, WoW, EVE, TR, WAR, Aion, Rift, SWTOR, GW2, TSW, ESO, Elite:D
    Play EVE for free for 21 days

  • strangepowersstrangepowers Chiacgo, ILPosts: 602Member Uncommon

    OP, you mentioned nothing about combos... I don't think you understand the combat to be honest.

    The fact that you can combo with other classes and sometimes yourself, and swap between weapon sets...

    The scary part is one day the world will be run by adults who were never spanked as kids and got trophies just for participating.

  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member
    Originally posted by Boardwalker
    Originally posted by wowfan1996

    /sigh Tera combat is obviously worse (at least PvP-wise) as you can't cast/shoot on the run. GW2 combat is nearly perfect. I say nearly because the amount of spell effects can be overwhelming sometimes. This is pretty much my only negative observation so far.

    When you say "perfect", are you talking about mechanics, or animations? Because that is not true of the mechanics. If it were, then GW2 would not be the only MMO with perfect combat mechanics--TSW would be as well.

    For me personally I find the mechanics in GW2 to be spot on. There's an elegant flow in being able to see and react rather than simply mash off cooldown or the like. Being able to move while casting, use terrain and obstacles as well as dodge mechanics to avoid damage, the lack of a trinity forcing a role... it all flows for me into a system that more "natural" (for want of a better word) than anything I've played in MMOs prior. I admit I haven't done TSW or Tera, nor do I have any interest in games that stick to the archaic trinity mechanics anymore, so I can't really offer a comparison between them.

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 18,045Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Boardwalker

    Wow, a lot of fans here. I'm happy for GW2. But anyone who thinks that GW2 combat is better than other MMOs is just plain wrong. Tera is better. TSW is on par. RaiderZ will be right in the mix.

    Maybe people are confusing combat animations with combat mechanics, because GW2 certainly does the animations well. That might be the only thing about its combat that is better than say, TSW.

    So no, managing cooldowns, being aware of when to use situational abilities, evading when necessary--none of these things are unique to GW2 or make it hands down better than other MMOs in terms of combat mechanics.

    Teras combat is pretty good, but the way the animations lock you up all the time makes it loose in my books, and i think they made a big misstake keeping the trinity for such action based combat. I havnt tried TSW and RaiderZ yet so I wont comment on them but I like GW2s combat a lot. 

    Both GW2 and TERA have combat that doesnt feel like I played it for the last 16 years and I think this is what so many like about it.

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,854Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Boardwalker

    Wow, a lot of fans here. I'm happy for GW2. But anyone who thinks that GW2 combat is better than other MMOs is just plain wrong. Tera is better. TSW is on par. RaiderZ will be right in the mix.

     

    Maybe people are confusing combat animations with combat mechanics, because GW2 certainly does the animations well. That might be the only thing about its combat that is better than say, TSW.

     

    So no, managing cooldowns, being aware of when to use situational abilities, evading when necessary--none of these things are unique to GW2 or make it hands down better than other MMOs in terms of combat mechanics.

     

    It's deeper than this.  Which heal, utilities and traits you use multiplies the process.  Take into account how many different boons and conditions there are in GW2 as well.  Combo fields... You have a lot of options in combat for every profession.  If the criteria for "best combat" is the amount of things taken into consideration when building and putting you avatar in combat GW2 is really good.

     

    I'm not going to argue which game has better combat though because that can come down to preference.  For me I'm finding GW2 to be better because 1/2 my build is done up front and the other half is done on the fly while I'm in combat, fun combat being able to freely move around.

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