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[Column] Guild Wars 2: Is Guild Wars 2 The MMO Savior?

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  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,565Member Uncommon

    GW2 has no doubt saved some people from themselves. But there are millions of gamers out there who didn't need to be saved and are doing just fine without GW2.

  • roo67roo67 londonPosts: 402Member

    I think of it like this Guild Wars 2 could be the Beatles to WoWs Elvis . That doesn't mean Elvis was bad far from it but no one thought could be as big as him . Something always comes along thats new and impressive and siezes the imagination when the times right . Remember Elvis and the Beatles co-existed quite nicely for a number of years . Same is true of WoW and GW2 . After the Beatles other huge acts came along the same will be true of mmos . 

    I think GW2 will change the minds of a lot of developers about buy to play as a viable buisness model  and within a year I think we will see several mmos indevelopment that will be buy to play . For example Elder Scrolls as a subscription based game will most likly fail but as a buy to play game it will probably be a massive success .

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,602Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by BadSpock
    I'm doing my part - already spent 20$ in the shop and will probably spend 20$ soon for more bank space, more dyes, more bag space, maybe some Mystic Keys...It really is a strange thing to want to voluntarily give money to the developes in a per-transaction basis.I've been playing nothing but subscription MMORPG's since 1999 - this whole B2P + cash shop thing is new and different and strange to me.But I really do ahve the urge to spend and spend and spend - I think once I get these things I "need" my purchases will stop for a while, I can't see myself spending money for boosts or for skins - I'd rather earn skins and craft boosts.But the occasional Mystic Key when the Chests don't roll my way and give me more Keys or the occasional Gem for Gold transaction to support my in-game needs so I don't have to grind for cash... I can see myself doing that.It is amazing to know that even if I never spend another dime I will continue to be able to play GW2 - that I don't have 30 days to decide if I want to keep playing or not.Not having the preasure of trying to get my 15/mo worth is... remarkably refreshing after 13 years of almost non-stop subscription fees.


    I also plan on spending some money in the CS. This game is a lot of fun.

    But I really have to question the B2P model as being a less expensive gaming model.

    You have a min of $60 entry to the game. And I think that it's fair to say most players will want the 3 character slots and probably the storage slots at a minimum. It is at this level where the offerings are on par with the standard Sub fee based revenue model.

    Assuming that we compare a typical P2P/B2P model, and assuming that both games are equal in terms of overall game experience. We are now around 100 bucks for GW2 and for that money, I can get an annual sub in most other games.

    Now, to purchase anything else in the CS, we are exceeding the cost of the original plan. I see most players using the CS. Some more than other, but I think most will purchase gems at some point or another.

    Just because "GW2 has no Sub" does not make it less expensive, and I don't believe that B2P should be the model of the future. Other companies who adopt this model in the future may be tempted to go the cash grab route over producing a quality product like ANET, and might use this model and abuse it through their cash shops.

    The response to this argument has always been that you can buy gems with gold, but to do that, you lose the fun factor and GW2 becomes a job now because you have to focus on getting more and more gold. Not to mention how long it will take to get that much gold.

    Maybe way down the road, when players have a lot of excess gold, Gems will provide an outlet, but for now and for the near future, I don't see this as an option for the casual gamer just looking to have fun with GW2.

  • sadeyxsadeyx leicesterPosts: 1,553Member

    Just as Blizzard started the trend of selling expensive pets to people for cash,  which made it OK foreveryone else to do it....   Guildwars2 will set the trend that its 'ok' to charge a premium price for a F2P MMO.

    So no, your right.  GW2 isnt the savior of MMO's,  if anything this pushes MMO's even more into the realms of 'cash machine product' than it ever was.

     

    Thats why I wont buy GW2, not because its a good or bad game, but because it sets a standard for a disturbing and worrying future of online games.

     

    I guess you could say I dont support what ANET are trying to do, under the disguise of a game and massive hype.

  • thamighty213thamighty213 NewcastlePosts: 1,630Member
    Originally posted by Illyssia
    Originally posted by kaiser3282
    Originally posted by Illyssia
    Originally posted by kaiser3282
    Originally posted by Illyssia
    GW2 is good casual fun, and I enjoy playing it. But, long-term will head to other games. One million sales at launch isn't a jaw dropping number so I think we have to think now the game is good, but it isn't going re-write the record books, more add to what was already there on the mmo landscape.

    As i stated int he thread about the 1 million sales... that was pre-purchase (fully paid for game for access to beta + head start weekend), which were available until a few days before the head start weekend. That is not counting regular pre-orders + actual sales on launch day. Guessing it will be much closer to, if not at least a little over 2m once all those are added in.

    The 1 million sales and 400K playing concurently is probably the high water mark for the game. Yes, the number of box sales will go up over time post-launch, and especially when game box cost is slashed, but I don't think they will get to 2 million concurently playing, Proof of this is the lack of servers at launch and the use of overflow servers. 

    You think pre-launch is the high mark? I dont think your egetting what I (and the article) are saying. That was PRE-launch sales. that doesnt account for people who just threw a few bucks down to pre-order it and picked it up yesterday, or regular sales. Game wasnt even officially launched yet with 1m sales and 400k concurrent players.

    Pre-launch is where most of the action is for mmo games. People don't buy older games in such volume. Reality is the numbers of servers ArenaNet/NCsoft has for the game, not so many, so clearly they aren't seeing a 10 million game anythime soon. No, GW2 has done alright...it just hasn't blown everyone away in the gaming world 1 millioni is a long way from the 10 million DIablo 3 got. 

    Or perhaps they were jsut clever.

    They know that only 10-15% of the userbase will be peak concurrency after that 1st 30 days compared to 40% during the 1st 30 days.   Why release 100s of servers that will end up at 25% of the population they are in launch month to have to merge them a couple of month down the line ala SWTOR.

    Overflow servers are the single greatest thing to happen to GW2 and its viability going forward it is ensuring you the player will not have an empty server a few months down the line.

  • ShimpoGenmuShimpoGenmu brusselsPosts: 66Member

    it is in my book compare to all the craps we got the last 5-6 years

    dont care what some journalist or whatever who wrote this article "expert wannabe" saying

  • sadeyxsadeyx leicesterPosts: 1,553Member
    Originally posted by ShimpoGenmu

    it is in my book compare to all the craps we got the last 5-6 years

    dont care what some journalist or whatever who wrote this article "expert wannabe" saying

    LOL

     

    Spot the person who didnt read the article hahaha

  • WhiteLanternWhiteLantern Nevada, MOPosts: 2,732Member Common
    Originally posted by sadeyx

    Just as Blizzard started the trend of selling expensive pets to people for cash,  which made it OK foreveryone else to do it....   Guildwars2 will set the trend that its 'ok' to charge a premium price for a F2P MMO.

    So no, your right.  GW2 isnt the savior of MMO's,  if anything this pushes MMO's even more into the realms of 'cash machine product' than it ever was.

     

    Thats why I wont buy GW2, not because its a good or bad game, but because it sets a standard for a disturbing and worrying future of online games.

     

    I guess you could say I dont support what ANET are trying to do, under the disguise of a game and massive hype.

    Correct me if I'm wrong (groggy from a morning of meetings), but are you saying that an MMO must charge a sub to be worth a box price?

    I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  • ZeGermanZeGerman Andover, MAPosts: 197Member Uncommon
    @Macecard sometimes is just good to leave a quote so that people really think about how rediculous trolls like that are and dismiss them. No intention of responding if he posts back :).  I try not to over hype any game but i do believe if we want innovation in the gaming industry we have to fight back against those afraid of change and reform.
  • RoxtarrRoxtarr Freeland, MI, MIPosts: 1,122Member

    I can't speak for an entire genre - but for ME, It was the MMO savior.  

    I had given up on MMO's.  I truly had.  I was burned out by the same game with different lore and skins.  The names were changed and the places the same.  Some were more sandboxy, but just weren't for me.

    I played EQ, EQ2, WoW, Warhammer Online, Lotro, EvE, Aion and RIFT.  My poor friends and family followed me from game to game after I promised that each of them were goning to be "it".  

    I felt like such a fool.  No more, I had given up and figured that the genre had just stagnated and there was nothing left for me.

    Guild Wars 2 was my MMO savior.  

    If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
    image

  • JenadaraJenadara Nowhere, TXPosts: 95Member
    It hard for me to wrap my arms around this article. The game is not pay to play. Pay to play is when you pay a sub- plain and simple. Lets not change the meaning just to suit your arguments.

    Also you mentioned 2 people's articles, yet proceded to comment on peoples responses and not what the article itself said.
  • OzmodanOzmodan Hilliard, OHPosts: 7,193Member Uncommon
    GW2 is a fun and well put together game, but I completely agree with the OP, it is definitely not the MMO savior and will not budge Wow off it's pedestal.  The problem is, it is just more of the same.  Nothing really new.  
  • PhryPhry HampshirePosts: 6,296Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by WhiteLantern
    Originally posted by sadeyx

    Just as Blizzard started the trend of selling expensive pets to people for cash,  which made it OK foreveryone else to do it....   Guildwars2 will set the trend that its 'ok' to charge a premium price for a F2P MMO.

    So no, your right.  GW2 isnt the savior of MMO's,  if anything this pushes MMO's even more into the realms of 'cash machine product' than it ever was.

     

    Thats why I wont buy GW2, not because its a good or bad game, but because it sets a standard for a disturbing and worrying future of online games.

     

    I guess you could say I dont support what ANET are trying to do, under the disguise of a game and massive hype.

    Correct me if I'm wrong (groggy from a morning of meetings), but are you saying that an MMO must charge a sub to be worth a box price?

    its a lame attempt to dissuade people from using cash shops probably.. now, the thing is with GW2 is you don't have to use the cash shop, no doubt loads will because its human nature, but its not like you have to do so... and thats where it differs from the vast majority of F2P games cash shops,  imo, people are more likely to spend money in a cash shop of the GW2 variety, than a cash shop where you have to buy items to progress. and then theres the game quality, GW2 is better quality than just about any F2P game out there, even the ones that didnt start out as F2P.. image

  • NephaeriusNephaerius Baltimore, MDPosts: 1,539Member Uncommon
    Whetger its the savior or not its the most fun ive had in an mmo in years and has managed to meet if not exceed all of my expectations. Just hit lvl 40 and it keeps getting better

    Steam: Neph

  • Carl132pCarl132p Columbus, INPosts: 535Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Macecard
    Originally posted by Carl132p
    Originally posted by Lavec
    Originally posted by mmoDAD

    The problem with The Secret World and Guild Wars 2 is this: I'm being told what to do and where to go...

     

    I don't have any control of my destiny. Sometimes I want to shift the engine in neutral and just hang out. I want to plant a house, start a player city, attack rival cities, experience deep crafting, and start a player shop.

    I can't do any of this in these Theme Park games.

     

    ArcheAge, IMO, looks to be the sustainer of MMOs. We'll see, though.

    Your opinion is very valid and clearly GW2 is not the game for you but I do wonder why you and many others feel compelled to comment like this. Imagine I said, the problem with a VW Golf is that it doesn't have 4WD and I can't take it off-road - it would be a pretty stupid statement because it's not what a Golf is designed for. At least you are not being rude and insulting in your comments. I hope ArcheAge is the game for you.

    Actually when everyone is saying the game is genre changing, inovative, and the savior of the genre they ARE saying its a VW with 4WD and offroading capabilities. Since it isn't that the above comment is perfectly acceptable especially in a thread like this. Please do like the game and play it, but earth shattering mmo development this is not.

    No, just no. The golf has changed many many times over the years, at no point did thyey add 4WD, change the general size, person capacsity, general engine size, or its purpose. Just because something is innovative doesn't mean its been changed to do something that its predecessors did not do. It does the same thing but better.

    Adding a kettle function to an oven is not innovation. Somehow improving the effiency of the oven by using a different heating method IS. 

    MMO's have been doing the same thing but better for years now and we don't call them innovative. This game isn't doing anything we've not seen before and we are tired of what we've seen before.

  • Carl132pCarl132p Columbus, INPosts: 535Member Uncommon
    edit
  • NibiruXNibiruX sant'antiocoPosts: 11Member
    too bad no one si publishing a piece about the "haters" ,  I mean how can I read someone say GW2 it's just "more of the same" and still take that person seriously?!?
  • OzmodanOzmodan Hilliard, OHPosts: 7,193Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Macecard
    Originally posted by ZeGerman
    Originally posted by Vivasvan

    Saviour of the MMO world? Here we go again. Hype and more hype. 

     

    gw2 has nothing new or different. It's actually just a low skill needed pvp game. 

    Max out your player in a month and then do what?  There is no endgame in gw2.  Not even a single raid lol. Saviour of the MMO world without even a single end game raid. 

    pay to buy your gear. Pay to win model all the way.  Your all on a hype pill due to recent hype on this game. Let the dust  settle, let the hyped emotions settle down and  then see where you are with this game. 

    Dynamic events, world pvp. Woooww. The game has no endgame and not even a single raid. 

     

    No wonder people are returning back to Everquest. 

     

    Im sorry why are raids the only form of end game? Running out into the world exploring and having storys develop arround me isnt end game?  This kinda of logic is what holds the MMO world back, sure GW2 may not be the answer for you.  The answer for you may be to play eq2 and WoW but people like you are what forces everyone else to play the same game cloned a hundred times with new art instead of getting new experiences.

    ZeGerman, why you even bothered to reply to this troll post is beyond me. You doing what he wants you to do. This troll hasn't even tried to use correct information in this troll post. Just ignore ppl who can't even be bothered to read the article before commenting (did you read the first paragraph? cos this troll did not)

    Typical poster, can't stand criticism of a game you like so you try to play the troll card.  Sorry to break it to you, but not everyone is in love with this game and he did say exactly why he was disappointed with the game,  It does not have an end game that suited him.   It is just more of the same, granted done in a very fun way, but then again SWTOR was very fun initially too.  Not having a sub fee will help it much more than SWTOR though.

    Just because someone disagrees with you does not mean they are a troll, perhaps people whining about criticism are the trolls?

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,622Member Uncommon
    I'm having problems with the concept that disagreements in game forums happen between zealots and haters. There is nothing wrong with debates about differing opinions even when those debates are passionate. Demonstrating feelings about this gas you care about is much more honest than the oh so cool detached style that many have when posting their smug one liners. Yes, there are douchebags and asshats who post in practically every thread but from where I'm standing I see an equal number on both sides of any argument--certainly not predominantly in the zealot camp as this blog seems to be saying.
  • MrwhoMrwho Detroit, MIPosts: 12Member Uncommon

    Great article!

    I have to agree, GW2 will remain a success as long as it has the player backing to do so.  I was more impressed by TERA when it launched over GW2.  Give it a 3-4 months and us Jaded gamers will be ready to move on to better things........which i am still waiting for...Wheres that next amazing MMO when you need it. They all see to be falling short.

  • rygard49rygard49 Huntington Beach, CAPosts: 975Member Common
    Originally posted by Iselin
    I'm having problems with the concept that disagreements in game forums happen between zealots and haters. There is nothing wrong with debates about differing opinions even when those debates are passionate. Demonstrating feelings about this gas you care about is much more honest than the oh so cool detached style that many have when posting their smug one liners. Yes, there are douchebags and asshats who post in practically every thread but from where I'm standing I see an equal number on both sides of any argument--certainly not predominantly in the zealot camp as this blog seems to be saying.

    What this article is attempting to highlight is that the fanboys are zealously attacking everything with anything negative to say about the title, not just 'haters'. People are pretty good about recognizing when someone is just spewing hate in a forum post, and then completely disregarding that person.

    The fanboys, however, just attack everybody. She's saying that if you like the game and you see negative criticism you need to stop acting on your passion, stop attacking, stop replying with sarcasm, stop accusing people of being trolls, and discuss the issue calmly and rationally. A lot of fans of the game here on this forum are capable of doing that, but way too many here have that knee jerk response to try to swoop in as the white knight and skewer the evil naysayer with their lance of justice.

    If it's a troll post, report it and move on. If it's a reasonable complaint, stop being a douche about it.

  • CoatedCoated Woodside, CAPosts: 343Member Uncommon

    The reason everyone thinks GW2 is so good, is because its predecessors were so bad. Just go down the list of MMO's that were released before GW2 launch. (This does not include MMO's released 5 years ago, which includes WOW. The time gap seperates these ideas)

    Or better yet, just think of those big name MMO's we all thought were going to be amazing wow killers, yet ended up being nothing or exactly the same.

     

    SWTOR - Terribad.

    RIFT - It was a remake of WOW.

    FF14 - Terribad.

    Secret World - Just Ok.

    Tera - Asian MMO (need I say more?)

     

    Anyways, the List can go on and on. The point I'm trying to make, is that GW2 is riding on the terribleness of the games before it. GW2 is not a ground breaking MMO. It isn't even close. Right now though, people have two options. You can go back and play WOW, or you can play GW2. There is nothing else. Anyone playing anything else is clinging to antiquated dreams.

    Since almost every gamer in the world has played WOW, I'm going to assume a lot will be playing GW2. As for people sitting around and 'waiting' for that ground breaking MMO, you wont see it for many years to come.

  • ZeGermanZeGerman Andover, MAPosts: 197Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ozmodan
    Originally posted by Macecard
    Originally posted by ZeGerman
    Originally posted by Vivasvan

    Saviour of the MMO world? Here we go again. Hype and more hype. 

     

    gw2 has nothing new or different. It's actually just a low skill needed pvp game. 

    Max out your player in a month and then do what?  There is no endgame in gw2.  Not even a single raid lol. Saviour of the MMO world without even a single end game raid. 

    pay to buy your gear. Pay to win model all the way.  Your all on a hype pill due to recent hype on this game. Let the dust  settle, let the hyped emotions settle down and  then see where you are with this game. 

    Dynamic events, world pvp. Woooww. The game has no endgame and not even a single raid. 

     

    No wonder people are returning back to Everquest. 

     

    Im sorry why are raids the only form of end game? Running out into the world exploring and having storys develop arround me isnt end game?  This kinda of logic is what holds the MMO world back, sure GW2 may not be the answer for you.  The answer for you may be to play eq2 and WoW but people like you are what forces everyone else to play the same game cloned a hundred times with new art instead of getting new experiences.

    ZeGerman, why you even bothered to reply to this troll post is beyond me. You doing what he wants you to do. This troll hasn't even tried to use correct information in this troll post. Just ignore ppl who can't even be bothered to read the article before commenting (did you read the first paragraph? cos this troll did not)

    Typical poster, can't stand criticism of a game you like so you try to play the troll card.  Sorry to break it to you, but not everyone is in love with this game and he did say exactly why he was disappointed with the game,  It does not have an end game that suited him.   It is just more of the same, granted done in a very fun way, but then again SWTOR was very fun initially too.  Not having a sub fee will help it much more than SWTOR though.

    Just because someone disagrees with you does not mean they are a troll, perhaps people whining about criticism are the trolls?

     

    I think he is a troll but your point is true that not everyone who dislikes something is a troll i just question why end game can only mean raids.  End game just means content at the end of the game. There are lower level raids in most MMORPGS so why is that not just more of the same?  Orr is an end game structure continual battle much like a raid except you dont have to que or find groups for in GW2 so why do haters always say it has no end game.  GW2 is about the destruction of groups so raids just dont make sense doesnt mean that they dont have an equivalent.  This doesnt even consider that PvP is just another form of end game.  You can dislike that form all you want but that doesn't mean it doesnt exist and that it isnt legitamate end game content.

  • DauzqulDauzqul Detroit, MIPosts: 1,411Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lavec
    Originally posted by mmoDAD

    The problem with The Secret World and Guild Wars 2 is this: I'm being told what to do and where to go...

     

    I don't have any control of my destiny. Sometimes I want to shift the engine in neutral and just hang out. I want to plant a house, start a player city, attack rival cities, experience deep crafting, and start a player shop.

    I can't do any of this in these Theme Park games.

     

    ArcheAge, IMO, looks to be the sustainer of MMOs. We'll see, though.

    Your opinion is very valid and clearly GW2 is not the game for you but I do wonder why you and many others feel compelled to comment like this. Imagine I said, the problem with a VW Golf is that it doesn't have 4WD and I can't take it off-road - it would be a pretty stupid statement because it's not what a Golf is designed for. At least you are not being rude and insulting in your comments. I hope ArcheAge is the game for you.

    Most mention this type thing because that's how MMOs used to be made. World of Warcraft is a solid game. However, it's constant linear drive was just too much for me. The problem is that every single MMO that has come out since then is no different than WoW.

    I want a good blend of Theme Park and Sandbox. It has not been done yet.

     

    It sucks to imagine how good Star Wars: The Old Republic could've been if it included loads and loads of social content, e.g., player cities, world housing, gigantic worlds, etc.

  • LobotomistLobotomist ZagrebPosts: 5,063Member Uncommon

    Problem, many naysayers and cautionist can not understand is that GW2 can not fail.

    I bought the game - NC Soft is now obliged to keep server live so i can play it.

    As far as I am concerned - if i am only player playing GW2 in the world. And if I enjoy the game. Than the game didnt fail.

    And what some dude on internet says or thinks is completely irellevant to me.

     

    That is the magic of B2P

     

     

     

     

    image

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