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Metacridiots

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  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by Nikkita
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    This is going nowhere lol.  No reason to restate my same points yet again.

    You are not reastating anything you are just changing goal posts ;). What you have been saying now about aggregate of metacritichad nothign to do with your OP.  You just needed to lash out at people and call them idiots so you did. No matter how reasonable and cool you try to appear now but i think cat is already out of the bag.

    I think he had the right idea; just lacks the mathspeak.  Faulty polling is a big big bugaboo for a lot of people; but not many of them have the terminology to explain just exactly what's wrong with the picture.

    Still others are only unhappy if the poll isn't "their direction".

    Problem is that even if I did calculate the real standard deviation for this distribution, and show how a 1 is like 4 std devs away from the mean, but a 10 is only 1 away...most people wouldn't understand and would just call me a fanboi and move on lol.

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    Three critics reviews in thus far- 100, 94, 94

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    Three critics reviews in thus far- 100, 94, 94

    Blasphemy!  All paid off fanbois ;)!

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • NikkitaNikkita ParisPosts: 790Member
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    Three critics reviews in thus far- 100, 94, 94

    Blasphemy!  All paid off fanbois ;)!

    Not paid off just idiots (using your logic).

    image


    Bite Me

  • TardcoreTardcore MinskPosts: 2,325Member
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by Tardcore

    Hate to tell you this but that's human nature. You either like something or you don't.

    No TC, bifurcation is not "human nature".  It's simply a hallmark of bad rhetoric (and bad politics...heh). And well, teenagers.

    I like cheesesteak.  I like bacon.  I like bacon, in fact more than cheesesteak.  I am ambivalent to cottage cheese.  I am opposed to trendy California cuisine, particularly avacado.  I am more opposed to brussel sprouts.  Won't walk into the same room with a bowl of chitlins.

    Not black and white.  Scales of grey.

    Speaking of cheesesteak, time to make lunch.

    Ah thank you for entirely missing the point, not to mention the REST of my post, and simply fixating on one simple sentence and then taking it wildly out of context. If I'd said you ONLY love or hate something you'd have a point. But ya don't. Because that isn't what I said at all.

    When people are asked "Did you like something" a normal answer would be yes or no (and none of your implied, set in stone, black and white world, "Best thing since sliced bread/worst thing since Hitler" diatribe here, just a simple yes or no).

    When someone  is asked "How much do you like or dislike something?" the result becomes disenginous, because a numeric like/dislike rating will vary wildly by individual, and is based more on an emotional rather than logical response.

    Which comes to my main point that you were apperently oblivious to, that numerical surveys become especially disenginuous when you factor in that only people who have a strong emotional feeling about the rating will bother to vote. So those who are ambigious about cottage cheese aren't near as likely to go to a cottage cheese survey sight to give it a rating as they don't care enough one way or the other to bother. So they'll never get an accurate polling of cottage cheese eaters as they only hear from people who really enjoy or really can't stand cottage cheese all the time as opposed to the actual majority of those who sometimes would and other times wouldn't enjoy some. Savy?

     

     

    image

    "Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member
    Originally posted by Nikkita
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    Three critics reviews in thus far- 100, 94, 94

    Blasphemy!  All paid off fanbois ;)!

    Not paid off just idiots (using your logic).

    XD

    Touche

    Anyways Creslin, why do you keep bringing up the fanboy thing? No one even went there that i recall. You got a martyr complex going on today or something?

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Creslin321

    Problem is that even if I did calculate the real standard deviation for this distribution, and show how a 1 is like 4 std devs away from the mean, but a 10 is only 1 away...most people wouldn't understand and would just call me a fanboi and move on lol.

    Emotively loaded discussions.  :shrug:  Even when your scrupulously, carefully neutral as you can possibly be, simply being in the GW2 folder is going to result in people deciding which box to file you in.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Virginia, VAPosts: 2,131Member
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

    Which is why no serious reviewers should use average in that way. A modified normal distribution would be more suitable, in which case 9.5 to 10.0 requires far more than 7.5 to 8.0.

    A non-borked stdev, yes indeed.   Hence why "1 or 10" bifurcated vote isn't just the same.

    Measure stdevs-from-the-mean, and Creslin's actually measuring the statistically meaningful, honest and true z-score (and boring people to tears too, in passing :).

     

    Point being that giving a 10.0 is very bad and going from 9.5 to 10.0 is indeed a major leap, moreso than 7.5 to 8.0. What Creslin was doing was to assume a linear score scaling to justify the 10.0 out there, I think the justification is wrong.  The scaling property I suggest with a jump 9.5 to 10.0 being very hard to do is coherent with the idea of "10.0" representing perfect. 

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Whatev, TC.  Not in the mood to play your game today.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member
    Originally posted by Nikkita
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    Three critics reviews in thus far- 100, 94, 94

    Blasphemy!  All paid off fanbois ;)!

    Not paid off just idiots (using your logic).

    Okay, let's make this simple...

    If you give anything a score that is several standard deviations away from the mean, then you should have a good justification for that score.  If you have no justification, a very poor justification, or an entirely false justification for your score...then your score is stupid.

    If you give a game a score of 94 and everyone else is giving it somewhere between 9-10...then that's not very removed from the mean.

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member
    Originally posted by Wickedjelly
    Originally posted by Nikkita
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    Three critics reviews in thus far- 100, 94, 94

    Blasphemy!  All paid off fanbois ;)!

    Not paid off just idiots (using your logic).

    XD

    Touche

    Anyways Creslin, why do you keep bringing up the fanboy thing? No one even went there that i recall. You got a martyr complex going on today or something?

    There are like 15 posts in this thread saying how the OP is from a fanboy point of view ;).

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    Three critics reviews in thus far- 100, 94, 94

    It's now 100, 94, 94, 90 -- Average 94.  But I guess that all the folks who gave is below 4 have perfectly valid reasons for their scores, and they should be just a respected as more reasonable scores (rolleyes).

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by Nikkita
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    Three critics reviews in thus far- 100, 94, 94

    Blasphemy!  All paid off fanbois ;)!

    Not paid off just idiots (using your logic).

    Okay, let's make this simple...

    If you give anything a score that is several standard deviations away from the mean, then you should have a good justification for that score.  If you have no justification, a very poor justification, or an entirely false justification for your score...then your score is stupid.

    If you give a game a score of 94 and everyone else is giving it somewhere between 9-10...then that's not very removed from the mean.

    Doesn't matter. A 1/10 should essentially mean the game doesn't even run or is an utter disaster beyond words. A 10 should mean it is perfect. At least that is the standard most I know associate with giving somethng a 1/10 and a 10/10. In either situation that score associated with this game makes absolutely no sense. It doesn't matter how close it is to the mean neither score really makes a lot of sense.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by Creslin321

    Problem is that even if I did calculate the real standard deviation for this distribution, and show how a 1 is like 4 std devs away from the mean, but a 10 is only 1 away...most people wouldn't understand and would just call me a fanboi and move on lol.

    Emotively loaded discussions.  :shrug:  Even when your scrupulously, carefully neutral as you can possibly be, simply being in the GW2 folder is going to result in people deciding which box to file you in.

    You said it! :)

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • Crazy_StickCrazy_Stick Privacy Preferred, NCPosts: 1,059Member
    You know Cres? Some times one post really will suffice. :)
  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    There is a big difference between giving a bad score to a game you don't like and giving a bad score to a bad game.

    There is such a thing as quality and polish - hard, factual, objective measures - does shit work, is shit broken, are things slopp/lazy... etc. etc.

    Saying "GW2 is a well made game that I simply do not like for my own personal subjective reasons" is 100% OK but saying "GW2 sux donkey balls and is the worst game ever made" is simply not true.

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    Three critics reviews in thus far- 100, 94, 94

    It's now 100, 94, 94, 90 -- Average 94.  But I guess that all the folks who gave is below 4 have perfectly valid reasons for their scores, and they should be just a respected as more reasonable scores (rolleyes).

    I don't believe anyone said that either. You sure are making this up as you go.

    I took it as they were implying that saying a 10/10 is being a fanboy kind of like you saying a person giveing a 1/10 is an idiot. Not that you're a fanboy.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Virginia, VAPosts: 2,131Member
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by Nikkita
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    This is going nowhere lol.  No reason to restate my same points yet again.

    You are not reastating anything you are just changing goal posts ;). What you have been saying now about aggregate of metacritichad nothign to do with your OP.  You just needed to lash out at people and call them idiots so you did. No matter how reasonable and cool you try to appear now but i think cat is already out of the bag.

    I think he had the right idea; just lacks the mathspeak.  Faulty polling is a big big bugaboo for a lot of people; but not many of them have the terminology to explain just exactly what's wrong with the picture.

    Still others are only unhappy if the poll isn't "their direction".

    Problem is that even if I did calculate the real standard deviation for this distribution, and show how a 1 is like 4 std devs away from the mean, but a 10 is only 1 away...most people wouldn't understand and would just call me a fanboi and move on lol.

     

    That would only work if the upper limit for the scale is above 10 because where would otherwise the point corresponding to 4 standard deviations be in the direction pointing upwards? Which is why I refered in loose terms refered to a modified normal distribution rather than a regular one. One important property being that the 9.5 -> 10.0 step being very difficult for a game to achieve, which works well with the notion of "10.0 represents perfection". 

  • TardcoreTardcore MinskPosts: 2,325Member
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Whatev, TC.  Not in the mood to play your game today.

    image

    "Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member
    Originally posted by Wickedjelly
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by Nikkita
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    Three critics reviews in thus far- 100, 94, 94

    Blasphemy!  All paid off fanbois ;)!

    Not paid off just idiots (using your logic).

    Okay, let's make this simple...

    If you give anything a score that is several standard deviations away from the mean, then you should have a good justification for that score.  If you have no justification, a very poor justification, or an entirely false justification for your score...then your score is stupid.

    If you give a game a score of 94 and everyone else is giving it somewhere between 9-10...then that's not very removed from the mean.

    Doesn't matter. A 1/10 shold essentially mean the game doesn't even run or is an utter disaster beyond words. A 10 should mean it is perfect. At least that is the standard most I know associate with giving somethng a 1/10 and a 10/10. In either situation that score associated with this game makes absolutely no sense. It doesn't matter how close it is to the mean neither score really makes a lot of sense.

    Well you are basically applying your valuation to everyone else.  And everyone else may not see it your way.  I actually happen to largely agree with you...thought I don't think a 10/10 is necessarily "perfect," just very, very good.

    Problem is that everone and their brother has their own personal valuation that they apply to a rating.  Some people want to just use all the numbers, so they will consider "5" to be an average game, and dish them out a lot.  Most people though use the US grading scale when rating games.  So 7 is average, and anything under that is basically fail.

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member
    Originally posted by Wickedjelly
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    Three critics reviews in thus far- 100, 94, 94

    It's now 100, 94, 94, 90 -- Average 94.  But I guess that all the folks who gave is below 4 have perfectly valid reasons for their scores, and they should be just a respected as more reasonable scores (rolleyes).

    I don't believe anyone said that either. You sure are making this up as you go.

    Nikita did...

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • NikkitaNikkita ParisPosts: 790Member
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by Nikkita
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    Three critics reviews in thus far- 100, 94, 94

    Blasphemy!  All paid off fanbois ;)!

    Not paid off just idiots (using your logic).

    Okay, let's make this simple...

    If you give anything a score that is several standard deviations away from the mean, then you should have a good justification for that score.  If you have no justification, a very poor justification, or an entirely false justification for your score...then your score is stupid.

    If you give a game a score of 94 and everyone else is giving it somewhere between 9-10...then that's not very removed from the mean.

    All reasoning or justifications given to justify the score whether lower or higher is matter of opinion. How can you argue with an opinion and call them stupid? the point here is not whether the score is 1 or 10 but whther you disagree or agree with that score.

    If a person gives all the best reasoning based on his own taste and preferences..say for example he dislikes the graphics or art style of the game. He / she doesn't think that DE's are all the interesting and think that PVP is nothing more than zerg...and he scores it say 2/10..i bet that you would still call him an idiot simply because he gave it a 2 / 10 no matter how well he explained his reasoning.

     

    image


    Bite Me

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member
    Originally posted by Nikkita
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by Nikkita
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    Three critics reviews in thus far- 100, 94, 94

    Blasphemy!  All paid off fanbois ;)!

    Not paid off just idiots (using your logic).

    Okay, let's make this simple...

    If you give anything a score that is several standard deviations away from the mean, then you should have a good justification for that score.  If you have no justification, a very poor justification, or an entirely false justification for your score...then your score is stupid.

    If you give a game a score of 94 and everyone else is giving it somewhere between 9-10...then that's not very removed from the mean.

    All reasoning or justifications given to justify the score whether lower or higher is matter of opinion. How can you argue with an opinion and call them stupid? the point here is not whether the score is 1 or 10 but whther you disagree or agree with that score.

    If a person gives all the best reasoning based on his own taste and preferences..say for example he dislikes the graphics or art style of the game. He / she doesn't think that DE's are all the interesting and think that PVP is nothing more than zerg...and he scores it say 2/10..i bet that you would still call him an idiot simply because he gave it a 2 / 10 no matter how well he explained his reasoning.

     

    An Olympic diver executes his dive, and the judges hold up their scores, they are:

    9, 9, 10, 9, 9, 3

    Now...do you think people would ask the person who gave the diver a 9 to justify his score?  Or ask the person who gave the diver a 3?

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member

    Ah well, I'm off from work. Thanks for making the time pass by quickly.

    I'm going home to play GW2 the game that is not an 1/10 or 10/10 :P

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    There is a big difference between giving a bad score to a game you don't like and giving a bad score to a bad game.

    There is such a thing as quality and polish - hard, factual, objective measures - does shit work, is shit broken, are things slopp/lazy... etc. etc.

    Saying "GW2 is a well made game that I simply do not like for my own personal subjective reasons" is 100% OK but saying "GW2 sux donkey balls and is the worst game ever made" is simply not true.

    Yes...exactly, that is the distinction here.  All of those reviews I posted were giving GW2 a bad score for the wrong reason.  They clearly had some kind of personal beef with the game and felt the need to slam it for some reason.

    It's not I'm lambasting someone that listed good criticisms and gave GW2 an 8..which would be a reasonable "bad" score given the critical mean so far.

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

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