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Casual Mindset

SilverminkSilvermink Cape Coral, FLPosts: 289Member

In EQ I was a hardcore raider, 5 nights a week. I don't do that anymore. I have the time, I just don't like the elitist mindset that many raiders have so I have moved to more casual fun guilds. I have an issue though, I want to complete everything. I don't care about loot (besides what's needed to progress) as I want to see all the content the devs work so hard to create. Casual guilds have a very hard accomplishing this. Not because their members don't want it. Not because they don't have enough people. But the casual players often refuse to commit to progression.

Why can someone that is ontime at work everyday, goes to the movies on time and meets friends, goes on dates at set times can't show up for a raid? They don't tell friends that they'll show up at the bar to meet them whenever and expect anyone to be there (well some people do, but not ones I'd keep as friends). Are online friends less important than offline ones? I was going to say real, but online friends are just as real as offline ones. Wehave emotions. We feel disappointed when the raid is cancelled cause the tank wanted to watch tv instead. I'm not saying they need to commit to 3-5 days a week 6 hours a night. But is it so hard for 1-2 nights a week 2-3 hours? Theygo to a movie for 2 hours. They go to sports for 4. I know real life happens, kids and spouses, etc. but your online friends should warrant the same response if you had to cancel a date or not go to the game. A timely message and a heartfelt apology. Maybe I'm old fashioned, but friends - online or off - deserve respect. Just cause it's a game, doesn't mean the people you play with aren't real.

I know this is a pretty hardcore forum but it's the only non-game specific forum I post to. :)

/end soapbox

Comments

  • Crazy_StickCrazy_Stick Privacy Preferred, NCPosts: 1,059Member

    Maybe (and forgive the mild language please) it''s simply because they have so many strong commitments they must keep in real life that it strains them and they need something they can "half-ass" to relax in their happy fun time. O.o

     

    I mean I used to work in an area that required so much complex thought that weighed on me so heavily that I would go home and let loose by watching "stupid stuff "like pro-wrestling,  B-Movies, or even hit a strip club just to remain sane and not burn out on living.  Same deal.

  • SilverminkSilvermink Cape Coral, FLPosts: 289Member

    I have no problem with people that play just for fun. That's fine. But if you say you want to progress or want to raid (or want the rewards from raiding) then blow off the people that try to make that happen, it's different.

    If you call up your friend at the last minute and say lets go to a club (pick-up group) they probably expect you to show up within a reasonable time. If you want to see a movie coming out next week, you probably pick a time and date to meet friends, you don't just show up at the theatre randomly expecting them to be there waiting for you. You don't go to a concert at anytime you please and demand the band start playing when you get there. There are spur of the moment things you do in RL, and online, and things that have to be scheduled. The game doesn't force that schedule on you, you volunteer and negotiate it with friends...real people. If you can't go to a concert on the days the band plays, you don't tell people you will.

  • DarSepkiDarSepki NotNeeded, IAPosts: 51Member

    Part of the issue that must be considered is who the casual may simply be dealing with people that do not understand. That is why would someone have a schedule for an online video game.  Even if it is only 4 hours a week. To some people it would be more acceptable to schedule regular time to watch TV (that could be recorded) than to play a game with other people. I can see the casual simply tagging along whatever friend circle with this mindset, it is less drama for them this way.

    My personal group of friends are into gaming, but not so much for online gaming. They are more into going out to eat, go to a movie, or head home and watch something there. If it is a game, it would be played single player. I had spoken to them about my online gaming experiences on several occations, but it was clear that they had no understanding what-so-ever to the concept. Very bright group of people, just they are not wired to this form of entertainment. Fortunally for me, they didn't interfer with my gaming schedule to cause drama, but at the same time my gaming schedule was set arround our regular activities.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member

    Raiding requires a much higher level of commitment than going to a movie. You don't commit to go to a series of 10 movies with a friend, do you?

    I was doing hardcore raiding back in WOTLK. You need to show up for every week. That is simply too much for a GAME.

    I much prefer LFR, which requires zero commitment. Games should accomodate players' schedule, not the other way around.

  • pierthpierth San Antonio, TXPosts: 1,503Member

    Silvermink, I think you hit the nail on the head with:


    Originally posted by Silvermink
    Are online friends less important than offline ones?


    This is very subjective and depends entirely on how much a person values his/her online friends. I've known someone who is very pleasant and thoughtful of others be completely mindless of others online because "those are video game people"; treating other players like NPCs that only exist to assist him in having fun or get gear.

  • StonesDKStonesDK SomewherePosts: 1,805Member
    Never been in a raiding guild where this was a problem. Just have enough guildies to offset people not showing up
  • rissiesrissies aurora, COPosts: 161Member
    Casual and committed generally don't go hand in hand. I call myself a casual player even if I'm playing quite a bit, because my playstyle is basically "whateva, whateva, I do what I want!" Which generally doesn't involve committing myself to a schedule for the sake of others.
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by pierth

    Silvermink, I think you hit the nail on the head with:

     


    Originally posted by Silvermink
    Are online friends less important than offline ones?

     


    This is very subjective and depends entirely on how much a person values his/her online friends. I've known someone who is very pleasant and thoughtful of others be completely mindless of others online because "those are video game people"; treating other players like NPCs that only exist to assist him in having fun or get gear.

    To me, no.

    I have a family and enough friends. I do have online friends that come close to real friends, but to be honest, i don't have the time & energy for them anyway.

    Killing some monster with me a few times do not make a true friend.

  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAPosts: 4,470Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by pierth

    Silvermink, I think you hit the nail on the head with:

     


    Originally posted by Silvermink
    Are online friends less important than offline ones?

     


    This is very subjective and depends entirely on how much a person values his/her online friends. I've known someone who is very pleasant and thoughtful of others be completely mindless of others online because "those are video game people"; treating other players like NPCs that only exist to assist him in having fun or get gear.

    To me, no.

    I have a family and enough friends. I do have online friends that come close to real friends, but to be honest, i don't have the time & energy for them anyway.

    Killing some monster with me a few times do not make a true friend.

    I agree.  ALL my friends are real world friends. 

     

    How many of these Internet friends have been to your home?  For me, zero.  Same goes for me going to their house.  People look at facebook/myspace social sites where "friend count" is a badge of something meaningful (not to me) to some people.  But people shouldn't confuse those people as real friends.  The word friend is overloaded. 

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by waynejr2
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by pierth

    Silvermink, I think you hit the nail on the head with:

     


    Originally posted by Silvermink
    Are online friends less important than offline ones?

     


    This is very subjective and depends entirely on how much a person values his/her online friends. I've known someone who is very pleasant and thoughtful of others be completely mindless of others online because "those are video game people"; treating other players like NPCs that only exist to assist him in having fun or get gear.

    To me, no.

    I have a family and enough friends. I do have online friends that come close to real friends, but to be honest, i don't have the time & energy for them anyway.

    Killing some monster with me a few times do not make a true friend.

    I agree.  ALL my friends are real world friends. 

     

    How many of these Internet friends have been to your home?  For me, zero.  Same goes for me going to their house.  People look at facebook/myspace social sites where "friend count" is a badge of something meaningful (not to me) to some people.  But people shouldn't confuse those people as real friends.  The word friend is overloaded. 

    Yeh. The closest i got is an online guildie told me that he works at an Apple store close by. And i said i would look him up there whenever i am in the store and have time. I have yet to do that.

    Online community cannot substitute a real world one .. and there is no point in investing too much into them since they shift a lot.

  • pierthpierth San Antonio, TXPosts: 1,503Member

    I'm thankful that's not the experience I've had. I met wonderful people in EQ1 and that wound up shifting to WoW and the majority of the folks we'd had in guild still talk to each other regularly either in vent while playing whatever games or IRL. We've had several RL meet-ups and only a very few weren't as pleasant to be around IRL as they were in game.


    I'd be willing to say those friends are easily as cherished by me as friends I'd met in the military (and under far more stressful circumstances).

  • Cephus404Cephus404 Redlands, CAPosts: 3,675Member
    Originally posted by waynejr2

    I agree.  ALL my friends are real world friends. 

     

    How many of these Internet friends have been to your home?  For me, zero.  Same goes for me going to their house.  People look at facebook/myspace social sites where "friend count" is a badge of something meaningful (not to me) to some people.  But people shouldn't confuse those people as real friends.  The word friend is overloaded. 

    The majority of my online real friends are people I've at least talked to on the phone, but most I've met in person or have been over to my house, etc.  However, the mark of a real friend is one that you stop playing games with and start interacting with on an entirely different level.  Most people I consider friends that I met in games, we just don't play together but we e-mail or call regularly and talk about things that are not related to gaming.  For the few that we hung out in games together, the majority of time, we'd go find a quiet corner somewhere and just talk about non-game related things most of the time.

    People who have nothing in common but games and who do nothing but play games together are not friends IMO.

    Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
    Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
    Now Playing: None
    Hope: None

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by pierth

    I'm thankful that's not the experience I've had. I met wonderful people in EQ1 and that wound up shifting to WoW and the majority of the folks we'd had in guild still talk to each other regularly either in vent while playing whatever games or IRL. We've had several RL meet-ups and only a very few weren't as pleasant to be around IRL as they were in game.


    I'd be willing to say those friends are easily as cherished by me as friends I'd met in the military (and under far more stressful circumstances).

    Why thankful for anything? You control how you make friends and choose according?

    Frankly i am not interested in online friendship .. i have enough real world friends. People just have different preference on making friends.

  • pierthpierth San Antonio, TXPosts: 1,503Member


    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by pierth I'm thankful that's not the experience I've had. I met wonderful people in EQ1 and that wound up shifting to WoW and the majority of the folks we'd had in guild still talk to each other regularly either in vent while playing whatever games or IRL. We've had several RL meet-ups and only a very few weren't as pleasant to be around IRL as they were in game. I'd be willing to say those friends are easily as cherished by me as friends I'd met in the military (and under far more stressful circumstances).
    Why thankful for anything? You control how you make friends and choose according?

    Frankly i am not interested in online friendship .. i have enough real world friends. People just have different preference on making friends.


    But I don't control how/who I meet. Through a small change of events it could be that I would have missed out on meeting any one of them and missing out on the friendships that have developed from those online interactions would be a real shame to me.


    I'm not judging you on your choice of or source of friends- certainly it's difficult to keep up with and even keep track if you have a great, great amount of them. I guess I'm personally glad that some of my good friends have come from online gaming because it helps me remember that even though current MMO communities are often cesspools (from my experience) it doesn't mean all people within them are that way and some of them may become more important to you than you'd think... given the chance.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by pierth

     


    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Originally posted by pierth I'm thankful that's not the experience I've had. I met wonderful people in EQ1 and that wound up shifting to WoW and the majority of the folks we'd had in guild still talk to each other regularly either in vent while playing whatever games or IRL. We've had several RL meet-ups and only a very few weren't as pleasant to be around IRL as they were in game. I'd be willing to say those friends are easily as cherished by me as friends I'd met in the military (and under far more stressful circumstances).
    Why thankful for anything? You control how you make friends and choose according?

     

    Frankly i am not interested in online friendship .. i have enough real world friends. People just have different preference on making friends.


     

    But I don't control how/who I meet. Through a small change of events it could be that I would have missed out on meeting any one of them and missing out on the friendships that have developed from those online interactions would be a real shame to me.

    That is an inaccurate view. 1) You do control filtering, and decide IF you want to pursue a friendship with ANYONE whom you met. 2) Because of the law of large number, you *will* eventually meet someone you like. There are literally millions upon millions of players to meet.

    Don't worry about missing out. Just be efficient, and discard anyone you do not like fast. Yes, you will miss out .. not unlike you cannot meet everyone in your college in real life. But so what? The key is to keep the process efficient, and an online process is much more efficient than real-life.


    I'm not judging you on your choice of or source of friends- certainly it's difficult to keep up with and even keep track if you have a great, great amount of them. I guess I'm personally glad that some of my good friends have come from online gaming because it helps me remember that even though current MMO communities are often cesspools (from my experience) it doesn't mean all people within them are that way and some of them may become more important to you than you'd think... given the chance.

    You seem to need the whole community to be "good". There is no need, from my view. So what if you dislike 99.99% of them. You don't have time for more than 0.00001% anyway. Pick a few good ones, and forget the rest.

    I have no problem hitting that "quit" button when i met a group i do not like.

     

  • pierthpierth San Antonio, TXPosts: 1,503Member


    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    That is an inaccurate view. 1) You do control filtering, and decide IF you want to pursue a friendship with ANYONE whom you met. 2) Because of the law of large number, you *will* eventually meet someone you like. There are literally millions upon millions of players to meet.

    Don't worry about missing out. Just be efficient, and discard anyone you do not like fast. Yes, you will miss out .. not unlike you cannot meet everyone in your college in real life. But so what? The key is to keep the process efficient, and an online process is much more efficient than real-life.


    I control the filtering but I don't control the circumstance. In many of today's MMOs the ability to meet and engage with other players seems neutered to me because of how little downtime there is and how little dependence there is on other players. It cripples the social aspect of the game and while I can appreciate where today's MMOs have come to improve the "game" portion of the abbreviation I personally never looked to MMORPGs to be no downtime action games. I play FPS and fighting games if that's the gameplay I seek.



    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    You seem to need the whole community to be "good". There is no need, from my view. So what if you dislike 99.99% of them. You don't have time for more than 0.00001% anyway. Pick a few good ones, and forget the rest.

    I have no problem hitting that "quit" button when i met a group i do not like.



    I have no need for the entire community to be good, I've survived WoW after the community became toxic (mostly after cross server anything) but it certainly made my experience in game worse off from that point on. The problem is that for me MMORPGs are not so much a console game where there happens to be other people around as it is an arena or stage that has content as background and the interactions with other gamers is the valued content.


    I can play the game as I would a console and have goals to get whatever trinket or widget drop from whatever monster but the reason I play MMORPGs is to find interesting people to party with then see how that party interacts with whatever dev content we choose to pursue.


    It's not about the content or the challenge, it's about fellowship and fun.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by pierth

     


    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    That is an inaccurate view. 1) You do control filtering, and decide IF you want to pursue a friendship with ANYONE whom you met. 2) Because of the law of large number, you *will* eventually meet someone you like. There are literally millions upon millions of players to meet.

     

    Don't worry about missing out. Just be efficient, and discard anyone you do not like fast. Yes, you will miss out .. not unlike you cannot meet everyone in your college in real life. But so what? The key is to keep the process efficient, and an online process is much more efficient than real-life.


     

    I control the filtering but I don't control the circumstance. In many of today's MMOs the ability to meet and engage with other players seems neutered to me because of how little downtime there is and how little dependence there is on other players. It cripples the social aspect of the game and while I can appreciate where today's MMOs have come to improve the "game" portion of the abbreviation I personally never looked to MMORPGs to be no downtime action games. I play FPS and fighting games if that's the gameplay I seek.

    If no one wants to talk, it is not the fault of the game. If you cannot find one in ORG that will chat, or in private chat, or in guild chat .. then it is the person.

    And why not play MMORPGs as a no downtime action RPG? That is how MMOs are designed now. I do that, and it is fun. It is silly to refuse playing an available style just because the game is not in a particular genre. I play MMOs as i please, whatever fancy me at the moment. There is no reason for me to play any other way.

     


    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    You seem to need the whole community to be "good". There is no need, from my view. So what if you dislike 99.99% of them. You don't have time for more than 0.00001% anyway. Pick a few good ones, and forget the rest.

     

    I have no problem hitting that "quit" button when i met a group i do not like.


     


    I have no need for the entire community to be good, I've survived WoW after the community became toxic (mostly after cross server anything) but it certainly made my experience in game worse off from that point on. The problem is that for me MMORPGs are not so much a console game where there happens to be other people around as it is an arena or stage that has content as background and the interactions with other gamers is the valued content.


    I can play the game as I would a console and have goals to get whatever trinket or widget drop from whatever monster but the reason I play MMORPGs is to find interesting people to party with then see how that party interacts with whatever dev content we choose to pursue.


    It's not about the content or the challenge, it's about fellowship and fun.

    Content *is* fun ... if you enjoy any SP games, you should know that. There is no reason NOT to play an MMO for its content if the content is fun. There are plenty of MMOs with mechanics, scripts, dungeons and what-not that is NOT available in a SP game.

    STO is a good example. There is no SP game i can play with space ship combat, and ground combat and progression. Simply, if you want to play a Star Trek RPG, STO is it. Ditto for DCUO. Even WOW has stuff you cannot get in SP games.

     

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,255Member Uncommon

    didnt read:

     

    but as a casual, I am easily bored of MMO time sinks. I see past them, for what they really are. Filler,,,,

    I rather play for fun,

    not play to unlock fun.

    image

  • JayDoseJayDose TEMECULA, CAPosts: 9Member
    Originally posted by Silvermink

    If you call up your friend at the last minute and say lets go to a club (pick-up group) they probably expect you to show up within a reasonable time. If you want to see a movie coming out next week, you probably pick a time and date to meet friends, you don't just show up at the theatre randomly expecting them to be there waiting for you. You don't go to a concert at anytime you please and demand the band start playing when you get there. 

    This is my life sir.  The second half

  • SicaeSicae LulePosts: 110Member

    In hardcore groups you will end up booted if you keep missing raids. At the workplace you will be booted if you don't bother to show up. In casual groups you can get away with not showing up on time/at all. The only way to get rid of the problem is to have strict rules, and when people don't meet their obligations they are kicked but most leaders prefer to be friends with everyone and avoid conflicts.

     

    You can have casual groups that stay commited, but there are very few leaders that have what it takes to run them smoothly, most of them end up doing hardcore raiding instead.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Sicae

    In hardcore groups you will end up booted if you keep missing raids. At the workplace you will be booted if you don't bother to show up. In casual groups you can get away with not showing up on time/at all. The only way to get rid of the problem is to have strict rules, and when people don't meet their obligations they are kicked but most leaders prefer to be friends with everyone and avoid conflicts.

     

    You can have casual groups that stay commited, but there are very few leaders that have what it takes to run them smoothly, most of them end up doing hardcore raiding instead.

    That is the problem. MMO are GAMES, not work. I don't want to commit to a game like i commit to my work.

    THe only way to get rid of the problem is LFR .. which requires NO commitment for raiding. Rules? That just make the game too serious.

  • tupodawg999tupodawg999 LondonPosts: 724Member Uncommon

    "Why can someone that is ontime at work everyday, goes to the movies on time and meets friends, goes on dates at set times can't show up for a raid?"

     

    If they *really* wanted to raid they'd be in a raid guild. So the real question is why do they say they want to do it when they don't.

  • pierthpierth San Antonio, TXPosts: 1,503Member


    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by pierth   Originally posted by nariusseldon That is an inaccurate view. 1) You do control filtering, and decide IF you want to pursue a friendship with ANYONE whom you met. 2) Because of the law of large number, you *will* eventually meet someone you like. There are literally millions upon millions of players to meet.   Don't worry about missing out. Just be efficient, and discard anyone you do not like fast. Yes, you will miss out .. not unlike you cannot meet everyone in your college in real life. But so what? The key is to keep the process efficient, and an online process is much more efficient than real-life.   I control the filtering but I don't control the circumstance. In many of today's MMOs the ability to meet and engage with other players seems neutered to me because of how little downtime there is and how little dependence there is on other players. It cripples the social aspect of the game and while I can appreciate where today's MMOs have come to improve the "game" portion of the abbreviation I personally never looked to MMORPGs to be no downtime action games. I play FPS and fighting games if that's the gameplay I seek. If no one wants to talk, it is not the fault of the game. If you cannot find one in ORG that will chat, or in private chat, or in guild chat .. then it is the person. And why not play MMORPGs as a no downtime action RPG? That is how MMOs are designed now. I do that, and it is fun. It is silly to refuse playing an available style just because the game is not in a particular genre. I play MMOs as i please, whatever fancy me at the moment. There is no reason for me to play any other way.   Originally posted by nariusseldon You seem to need the whole community to be "good". There is no need, from my view. So what if you dislike 99.99% of them. You don't have time for more than 0.00001% anyway. Pick a few good ones, and forget the rest.   I have no problem hitting that "quit" button when i met a group i do not like.
      I have no need for the entire community to be good, I've survived WoW after the community became toxic (mostly after cross server anything) but it certainly made my experience in game worse off from that point on. The problem is that for me MMORPGs are not so much a console game where there happens to be other people around as it is an arena or stage that has content as background and the interactions with other gamers is the valued content. I can play the game as I would a console and have goals to get whatever trinket or widget drop from whatever monster but the reason I play MMORPGs is to find interesting people to party with then see how that party interacts with whatever dev content we choose to pursue. It's not about the content or the challenge, it's about fellowship and fun. Content *is* fun ... if you enjoy any SP games, you should know that. There is no reason NOT to play an MMO for its content if the content is fun. There are plenty of MMOs with mechanics, scripts, dungeons and what-not that is NOT available in a SP game. STO is a good example. There is no SP game i can play with space ship combat, and ground combat and progression. Simply, if you want to play a Star Trek RPG, STO is it. Ditto for DCUO. Even WOW has stuff you cannot get in SP games.
     


    While I believe I understand your point, I continue to disagree. We look for different things in the games we play. I like playing different genres for their differences and their potential; in genres like MMOs with the outstanding number of players they support I look for a more social experience because MMOs can support that and the social aspect of MMOs is better than any content the devs can give me.

  • ScotScot UKPosts: 5,754Member Uncommon

    Wanting to use a MMO to relax after work is the sort of tosh mentality that has made MMO's what they are today. MMO's are not your TV, go and sit in front of the TV if you want to relax.

    Why should you not be expected to put some effort into a MMO? Want to chill out online? Well there are solo games for that. Why do you have to bring your couch potato attitude to every f***ing thing you do?

    Sorry if I got carried away, but I have put up with this lame attitude for too many years.

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