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Good...until combat. Dumbed down so much.

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  • heartlessheartless Brooklyn, NYPosts: 4,993Member
    Originally posted by Nitth

    But this particular argument "the game starts at 20" or some literal number is like i said ridiculous.

    That argument actually has some validity to it. I think somewhere around levels 15-20 is when you notice that mobs are becoming tougher, requiring a more and more intimate knowledge of your class and your abilities and it gets tougher from there. Everything before that and you can pretty much beat it by mashing your face on the keyboard.

    A prime example of this is the Fire Elemental in Metrica Provice. Where as every other boss before it was a pushover, you're in for a very rude awakening going into that fight if you expect to button mash or spammed one button.

    image

  • wowfan1996wowfan1996 NonePosts: 719Member
    Originally posted by grapevine

    I still enjoy the combat, but the OP is right.  It's extremely simple and dumbed down.   Just need to learn to move, as attacks can be easily dodged, and break los against range.

    So combat that requires precise timing, clever positioning and constant awareness is "simple and dumbed down" for you? What is complex then? Name any MMO with complex combat, please.

    MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).

  • IndromeIndrome NortheimPosts: 292Member
    Originally posted by Citalkay
    [mod edit]

    [mod edit]

     

    ...

    I don't see any reason to think that a combat system without MMO-standart resource management would be in any way inferior to one with it. It's like comparing apples and oranges.

    One system uses a diminish-by-ability system (mana) and global cooldowns. Basically mechanisms that players have to navigate around. The difficulty comes from the players balancing action and inaction (read: DPS and no-DPS) in order to avoid fully depleting their resource while simultaneously maximize a specific output to a specific purpose (Healing, DPS, threat, what have you).

    System one comes with a lot of abilities with singular uses and effects (read: either/or uses). It's a great system with difficulty and challenge in the mechanics, but not really in the combat itself since both you and your opponent stand still most of the time and let the game calculate the outcome (to an extend) in the background.

    The other system uses local cooldowns and more player-controlled secondary resources (f.e. the combo-point equivalent in GW2, or the necromancer's life force). These are mechanisms that players have a lot more control over. What's more is that these secondary resources aren't mandatory for the basic skills to work. Instead they are used to broaden the spectrum of abilities and characteristics for any given class. (f.e. necromancer's Death Shroud and warrior's Burst Skills)

    System two comes with more abilities that have multiple uses (smash ground -> do damage -> raise buff field) which in turn can be the basis of a cross-profession combo system like we see in GW2, though not necessarily. The mechanics behind the abilities are easy to grasp and understand and concerning the "theorycrafting" of numbers and stats could indeed be considered "dumbed down". System two, in order to be challenging and not just a button mash fest, needs a certain amount of meta-combat systems in which to get some grip. In GW2 this is where the dodge mechanic, heavy positioning emphasis and lack of a tank-heal-dps-trinity comes in. How well you fare in battle is not dependant on your abilities to grasp what's "behind" the combat (crit/block/dodge/hit rates, damagetables) but what's happening "during" combat.

    The systems are entirely different. System One is good has served many an MMO quite well but just because a new (and by coincidence very hyped) game uses System Two doesn't mean it's inferior or needs "improvement" by adding elements from System One.

    People just can't let go, can they?

     

    TL;DR: Don't compare apples and oranges.

    image

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    Originally posted by Nitth

     


    Originally posted by Zezda

    Originally posted by Nitth  

    Originally posted by Zezda

    Originally posted by Nitth  

    Originally posted by heartless

    Originally posted by Nitth  

    Originally posted by heartless

    Originally posted by TheScavenger

    Originally posted by heartless OP, what is the highest level character you have?
    I got to level 10, before realizing I didn't like the combat at all. Usually I know if I like combat or the game within 10 levels of a MMO.   Like in WoW, I loved the combat right off the bat. Got pets right in the beginning as a hunter and warlock. Paladin smashed everything in its path right at level 1. Warrior rushed enemiees. And it only became better when there was so many abilities just at level 10. Like as a warrior at level 10, I had so many abilities to choose from.   Or a better example (because its newer). At level 1 as a Jedi Consular in SWTOR...I had so many amazing abilities (comparitevly), and just after the first area...I had so much strategy in the combat. There wasn't just pressing one key over and over.   Not to say GW2 is bad and I don't like it. Just combat isn't its strong suit. Guild Wars (the first one) was a lot better, even if it wasn't filled with many hotbars of abilities.
    In other words you're basing your opinion on combat during the tutorial phase.
      Yeah, could not see you setting that argument up a mile away. btw. Your out of the "tutorial phase by lvl 2. rest is the GAME.
    No, the first zone is actually a tutorial zone. It's used to introduce you to how the game functions. The mobs in the first zone are incredibly easy and can be killed with autoattack. Once you get closer to the end of the zone, that's when things get interesting. And good luck trying to kill things with autoattack when you're level 20+.   Nice try though.
      Bullshit. After you leave the real 'tutorial zone' you can move 'freely' about the world and visit other areas. Pure nonsense the game 'starts at 20'.
    I'm level 42 right now, in Blazeridge Steppes.   Combat gets progressively harder as you level up. It starts assuming you know how to CC mobs, you know to move out of the way of certain attacks and that you know when to use range and when to melee. As the level increases so does the general skill requirement. You can make up for it somewhat with having exceptionally good items but that will only get you so far when you're trying to fight something like 3 or 4 Shadow Imp's when they can each hit you for 60% of your health with a single attack. The first zone is basically there as an introductory stage to get you to grips with the games mechanics. As you get past it you'll need to start making better decisions with your character or you'll find yourself in the downed state a lot. I'm not saying it's hard, I can't speak for anyone other than myself, but it certainly does get harder as you level. Think I'm kidding? Add me, Korgath.5097
      Yes, It would seem logical the games encouters would get harder as your progress thoough zones. But this particular argument "the game starts at 20" some some literal number is like i said ridiculous.
    Not really, level 15-17 is the end of the first zone and the second zone doesn't start really kicking up in difficulty until the latter half which is 20-25.

     

    So your claiming 1 quarter of guildwars 2 levels are not game, but tutorial?

    As with pretty much every MMO ever - yes.

    If you expected them to throw out complicated encounters which require full understanding of the games mechanics in the first 20 levels then you don't know game design very well.

  • grapevinegrapevine PeterboroughPosts: 1,927Member
    Originally posted by wowfan1996
    Originally posted by grapevine

    I still enjoy the combat, but the OP is right.  It's extremely simple and dumbed down.   Just need to learn to move, as attacks can be easily dodged, and break los against range.

    So combat that requires precise timing, clever positioning and constant awareness is "simple and dumbed down" for you? What is complex then? Name any MMO with complex combat, please.

     

    Think you miss understood.  The combat system is simple, and is somewhat button mashing.  That's not to say its application within the game doesn't offer a higher level of player skill.  The latter is why I'm enjoying it, but moving around is not a complex combat mechanic.  

  • KhinRuniteKhinRunite ManilaPosts: 879Member
    Originally posted by Nitth

     


    Originally posted by Zezda

    Originally posted by Nitth  

    Originally posted by Zezda

    Originally posted by Nitth  

    Originally posted by heartless

    Originally posted by Nitth  

    Originally posted by heartless

    Originally posted by TheScavenger

    Originally posted by heartless OP, what is the highest level character you have?
    I got to level 10, before realizing I didn't like the combat at all. Usually I know if I like combat or the game within 10 levels of a MMO.   Like in WoW, I loved the combat right off the bat. Got pets right in the beginning as a hunter and warlock. Paladin smashed everything in its path right at level 1. Warrior rushed enemiees. And it only became better when there was so many abilities just at level 10. Like as a warrior at level 10, I had so many abilities to choose from.   Or a better example (because its newer). At level 1 as a Jedi Consular in SWTOR...I had so many amazing abilities (comparitevly), and just after the first area...I had so much strategy in the combat. There wasn't just pressing one key over and over.   Not to say GW2 is bad and I don't like it. Just combat isn't its strong suit. Guild Wars (the first one) was a lot better, even if it wasn't filled with many hotbars of abilities.
    In other words you're basing your opinion on combat during the tutorial phase.
      Yeah, could not see you setting that argument up a mile away. btw. Your out of the "tutorial phase by lvl 2. rest is the GAME.
    No, the first zone is actually a tutorial zone. It's used to introduce you to how the game functions. The mobs in the first zone are incredibly easy and can be killed with autoattack. Once you get closer to the end of the zone, that's when things get interesting. And good luck trying to kill things with autoattack when you're level 20+.   Nice try though.
      Bullshit. After you leave the real 'tutorial zone' you can move 'freely' about the world and visit other areas. Pure nonsense the game 'starts at 20'.
    I'm level 42 right now, in Blazeridge Steppes.   Combat gets progressively harder as you level up. It starts assuming you know how to CC mobs, you know to move out of the way of certain attacks and that you know when to use range and when to melee. As the level increases so does the general skill requirement. You can make up for it somewhat with having exceptionally good items but that will only get you so far when you're trying to fight something like 3 or 4 Shadow Imp's when they can each hit you for 60% of your health with a single attack. The first zone is basically there as an introductory stage to get you to grips with the games mechanics. As you get past it you'll need to start making better decisions with your character or you'll find yourself in the downed state a lot. I'm not saying it's hard, I can't speak for anyone other than myself, but it certainly does get harder as you level. Think I'm kidding? Add me, Korgath.5097
      Yes, It would seem logical the games encouters would get harder as your progress thoough zones. But this particular argument "the game starts at 20" some some literal number is like i said ridiculous.
    Not really, level 15-17 is the end of the first zone and the second zone doesn't start really kicking up in difficulty until the latter half which is 20-25.

     

    So your claiming 1 quarter of guildwars 2 levels are not game, but tutorial?

    It's different for each person. They can say the game starts at 15, 20,30, whatever. It's subjective to a person's skill and gaming experience.

    For example, my wife finds herself dying multiple times whenever I'm not accompanying her. I watched her play and find out  that she doesn't use the dodge button simply because coming from WoW, Shaiya, Aion, and a bit of GW1, she's not used to it yet. Being level 8 that time, she can manage 1v1 mob fights but find it difficult employing the same game style against multiple opponents. I actually like how GW2 is designed to teach less experienced players. She dies obviously because she employs the same combat style she's used to from other games and her death reminds her she should change her style. Had they catered to the more experienced players and "started" the game much early it would have been frustrating for her.

  • wowfan1996wowfan1996 NonePosts: 719Member
    Originally posted by grapevine
    Think you miss understood.  The combat system is simple, and is somewhat button mashing.  That's not to say its application within the game doesn't offer a higher level of player skill.  The latter is why I'm enjoying it, but moving around is not a complex combat mechanic.  

    I like how you move around my questions but I'd prefer a more straightforward answer. ;) Not sure about now but WoW combat wasn't harder in WotLK. I had 2+ bars of abilities but most of them were purely situational. In GW2 at 80 I'll have almost the same about of abilities (with all the utilities and different weapon skills) just not all of them at once.

    In WAR I had even less abilities and terrain use was more hazardous than benefical (simply because of how easy toons could get stuck in WAR).

    GW2 requires thinking ahead (picking right utilities before combat), switching weapons, dodging and constant terrain use. I can't recall any MMO with more complex and more demanding combat. In Rift I could switch builds almost on the fly (still had to be out of combat) but again I had about 2 bars of abilites at any given moment and no dodge.

     

    MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).

  • ZezdaZezda Posts: 685Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nitth

     


    Originally posted by Zezda

    Originally posted by Nitth  

    Originally posted by Zezda

    Originally posted by Nitth  

    Originally posted by heartless

    Originally posted by Nitth  

    Originally posted by heartless

    Originally posted by TheScavenger

    Originally posted by heartless OP, what is the highest level character you have?
    I got to level 10, before realizing I didn't like the combat at all. Usually I know if I like combat or the game within 10 levels of a MMO.   Like in WoW, I loved the combat right off the bat. Got pets right in the beginning as a hunter and warlock. Paladin smashed everything in its path right at level 1. Warrior rushed enemiees. And it only became better when there was so many abilities just at level 10. Like as a warrior at level 10, I had so many abilities to choose from.   Or a better example (because its newer). At level 1 as a Jedi Consular in SWTOR...I had so many amazing abilities (comparitevly), and just after the first area...I had so much strategy in the combat. There wasn't just pressing one key over and over.   Not to say GW2 is bad and I don't like it. Just combat isn't its strong suit. Guild Wars (the first one) was a lot better, even if it wasn't filled with many hotbars of abilities.
    In other words you're basing your opinion on combat during the tutorial phase.
      Yeah, could not see you setting that argument up a mile away. btw. Your out of the "tutorial phase by lvl 2. rest is the GAME.
    No, the first zone is actually a tutorial zone. It's used to introduce you to how the game functions. The mobs in the first zone are incredibly easy and can be killed with autoattack. Once you get closer to the end of the zone, that's when things get interesting. And good luck trying to kill things with autoattack when you're level 20+.   Nice try though.
      Bullshit. After you leave the real 'tutorial zone' you can move 'freely' about the world and visit other areas. Pure nonsense the game 'starts at 20'.
    I'm level 42 right now, in Blazeridge Steppes.   Combat gets progressively harder as you level up. It starts assuming you know how to CC mobs, you know to move out of the way of certain attacks and that you know when to use range and when to melee. As the level increases so does the general skill requirement. You can make up for it somewhat with having exceptionally good items but that will only get you so far when you're trying to fight something like 3 or 4 Shadow Imp's when they can each hit you for 60% of your health with a single attack. The first zone is basically there as an introductory stage to get you to grips with the games mechanics. As you get past it you'll need to start making better decisions with your character or you'll find yourself in the downed state a lot. I'm not saying it's hard, I can't speak for anyone other than myself, but it certainly does get harder as you level. Think I'm kidding? Add me, Korgath.5097
      Yes, It would seem logical the games encouters would get harder as your progress thoough zones. But this particular argument "the game starts at 20" some some literal number is like i said ridiculous.
    Not really, level 15-17 is the end of the first zone and the second zone doesn't start really kicking up in difficulty until the latter half which is 20-25.

     

    So your claiming 1 quarter of guildwars 2 levels are not game, but tutorial?

    No, I'm claiming the game goes easy on you for the first 15 to 20 levels.

     

    Why must everyone on these boards try spin things to suit themselves?

  • sodade21sodade21 athensPosts: 341Member Uncommon

    the only thing that bothers me in combat of GW2 is that it still use that old fashioned ALT Tab targeting... if it was more like tera it could be the best of the best...well i can hope in a very distant expansion... :p

  • NildenNilden null, NBPosts: 1,284Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by teakbois

    That 'one key repeatedly' is autoattack, and you don't have to hit it repeatedly.

    It's hard to take anyone who posts a critique on the combat system seriously when they don't know what the first button does.

    How to post links.

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Webster, MAPosts: 4,813Member
    Originally posted by vardar
    Totally agree, its just 1 big button mashing, thats it, dunno how people go crazy and say its totally awsome? not quiet sure if its there first MMO or second, but it takes alot of skill to run around and button mash?? heh, i guess it does, lol,  my damn wrists hurt so much from pounding on my keyboard, and its very repititious, mashing the same buttons over and over and over......real fun...

    Why do people say it's totally awesome? Thats an easy one really, it's one of the most tactical and skill based combat systems in an MMO. Button mashers are going to complain about dying repeatedly. Since it shows in your post you haven't played yet, I definitely recomend you do so it's not going to be what you apparently assume it will be. 

  • Ashen_XAshen_X PLEASANT HILL, CAPosts: 363Member
    Originally posted by TheScavenger

    Combat feels more dumbed down than it was in DCU.

     

    Why? It isn't because you aren't standing still and using strategic key pressing (which is mentally challenging, and why I like it so much)...but...

     

    Even DCU (DC Universe) had mana and stamina. In GW2...what happened to the stamina and mana bar? You press the one key over and over and over...there is no strategy. It doesn't matter what weapon(s) I have equipped, I just kill everything by pressing one key. On top of that, unlike other MMOs (like DCU) where this is possible...I don't even have to worry about stamina or mana. Which EVERY MMO has. This isn't even a real MMO. There is just no strategy to the combat. It has been dumbed down so much.

     

    Anyone else find they really miss the stamina/mana bar? At least that would add strategy, instead of hitting the one key repeatedly.

    Which MMOs dont have a no mana cost auto attack ? Honest question here as every single one Ive ever played has such.

     

    Your other skills are designed to be balanced by their cool-down rather than a mana cost. Essentially this achieves much the same result. A power with a certain mana cost in other games requires that you spend time building up mana before you can use it again after the initial use consumes your mana. GW2 requires that you spend time before using it again after your initial use.

     

    essentially the same thing. Both require that you consider the timing of your skill use as any skill other than your autoattack will be unavailable for some time after each use...again just like in other games.

    When all has been said and done, more will have been said than done.

  • MeowheadMeowhead New Carlisle, INPosts: 3,716Member
    Originally posted by Nitth

     

    So your claiming 1 quarter of guildwars 2 levels are not game, but tutorial?

     Almost all games get harder as you go along.  Even games where you start off with a full compliment of your tools (Like a fighting game).  In GW2, you don't even get all 3 utilities until 20, or your elite skill until 30.  You don't t get max level traits until.... 60 or so.

    Just because you can pass lower levels of a fighting game by constantly spamming low kick or something, doesn't mean it's an easy game, it means you're playing it in the worst way possible, and eventually you're going to hit the skill ceiling for your shitty way of playing.

    Same thing with chess, or soccer, or... well, anything.  That's how the vast majority of games work.  Lower levels of competition and the beginnin go fsingle player games, you can get away with really horrible tactics and a poor understanding of how a game works and shoddy skills.

    People who play really, really poorly (ie, spamming attacks on rotation or even worse, just hitting the '1' key the whole time) can maybe sort of force their way through to a point, but they're crippling themselves by refusing to properly learn or utilize the various techniques given to them to perform better.

    Dynamic events make it even easier to 'ride' for a while, since you can just follow the zerg and suck.  That doesn't mean that's the skill ceiling, or that these people have mastered the game system.

    Get back to me when a group of people like this can go through dungeons on explorable mode in anything remotely resembling reasonable time, or when they win a tournament (I'll spam the 1 key!  That's the key to victory!) in spvp.

  • grapevinegrapevine PeterboroughPosts: 1,927Member
    Originally posted by Ashen_X
    Originally posted by TheScavenger

    Combat feels more dumbed down than it was in DCU.

     

    Why? It isn't because you aren't standing still and using strategic key pressing (which is mentally challenging, and why I like it so much)...but...

     

    Even DCU (DC Universe) had mana and stamina. In GW2...what happened to the stamina and mana bar? You press the one key over and over and over...there is no strategy. It doesn't matter what weapon(s) I have equipped, I just kill everything by pressing one key. On top of that, unlike other MMOs (like DCU) where this is possible...I don't even have to worry about stamina or mana. Which EVERY MMO has. This isn't even a real MMO. There is just no strategy to the combat. It has been dumbed down so much.

     

    Anyone else find they really miss the stamina/mana bar? At least that would add strategy, instead of hitting the one key repeatedly.

    Which MMOs dont have a no mana cost auto attack ? Honest question here as every single one Ive ever played has such.

     

    Your other skills are designed to be balanced by their cool-down rather than a mana cost. Essentially this achieves much the same result. A power with a certain mana cost in other games requires that you spend time building up mana before you can use it again after the initial use consumes your mana. GW2 requires that you spend time before using it again after your initial use.

     

    essentially the same thing. Both require that you consider the timing of your skill use as any skill other than your autoattack will be unavailable for some time after each use...again just like in other games.

     

    The first skill is not an auto attack.  Any skill can be.  It's just set to the first by default.  You can even turn it off completely.

  • RaxeonRaxeon cedar falls, IAPosts: 2,088Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Mephster
    Originally posted by DaezAster

    I like that it's more action focused some don't and that's cool but it is what it is. If your only using one attack then your gimping yourself and missing all the fun of mixing it up. With the hammer I have some vicious attacks but if I only used the 1 key I wouldn't know that. I am glad to finally see more action in my combat  with more recent games and less of the dice roll style of old. Even if you could get away with just using the 1 button (which won't work outside the zerg or group to pick up your slack) what fun is that.

    I challenge you to stand there spamming the 1 key alone and see how that goes..... ;)

    I don't think he literally means spamming one button, more like mindlessly pressing the skill buttons without no thought of what you are doing. I think that would be more accurate.

    i was doing that at first until i started dieing alot

  • RaxeonRaxeon cedar falls, IAPosts: 2,088Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by grapevine
    Originally posted by Ashen_X
    Originally posted by TheScavenger

    Combat feels more dumbed down than it was in DCU.

     

    Why? It isn't because you aren't standing still and using strategic key pressing (which is mentally challenging, and why I like it so much)...but...

     

    Even DCU (DC Universe) had mana and stamina. In GW2...what happened to the stamina and mana bar? You press the one key over and over and over...there is no strategy. It doesn't matter what weapon(s) I have equipped, I just kill everything by pressing one key. On top of that, unlike other MMOs (like DCU) where this is possible...I don't even have to worry about stamina or mana. Which EVERY MMO has. This isn't even a real MMO. There is just no strategy to the combat. It has been dumbed down so much.

     

    Anyone else find they really miss the stamina/mana bar? At least that would add strategy, instead of hitting the one key repeatedly.

    Which MMOs dont have a no mana cost auto attack ? Honest question here as every single one Ive ever played has such.

     

    Your other skills are designed to be balanced by their cool-down rather than a mana cost. Essentially this achieves much the same result. A power with a certain mana cost in other games requires that you spend time building up mana before you can use it again after the initial use consumes your mana. GW2 requires that you spend time before using it again after your initial use.

     

    essentially the same thing. Both require that you consider the timing of your skill use as any skill other than your autoattack will be unavailable for some time after each use...again just like in other games.

     

    The first skill is not an auto attack.  Any skill can be.  It's just set to the first by default.  You can even turn it off completely.

    yea you can contrl mouse 2 the skill

  • VhalnVhaln Chicago, ILPosts: 3,159Member
    Originally posted by heartless
    OP, what is the highest level character you have?

     

    Some MMOs start you off with one lousy attack, and gradually build from there, but GW2?  You get a full hotbar of skills almost right away.  Being low level is no excuse for not using them, in this game.

    When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  • xholyaccxholyacc jakarta baratPosts: 57Member
    have you tried the dungeon? if not then you make the biggest mistake, i understand now. anet makes the lower level massive DE easier but even the first dungeon ascalon cacatomb is a lot harder than what you usually fight ( its really a lot)
  • vort3xvort3x Jebem vam materPosts: 129Member

    Combat feels dumbed down to you, because you're playing it in a dumb way. And that is why you will also utterly fail in PvP and call PvP mindless and crappy.

     

    I know your kind, so it's really kindof pointless to say anything more than I already did.

  • BijouBijou BudapestPosts: 145Member


    Originally posted by TheScavenger
    Anyone else find they really miss the stamina/mana bar? At least that would add strategy, instead of hitting the one key repeatedly.

    I'm actually glad they removed it. I don't have to worry about mana anymore and no potion spamming. More time for action. I think it's awesome!

  • KniknaxKniknax LeicesterPosts: 567Member Uncommon

    When I first started GW2 I thought "So, 1 is autoattack and you get 5 skills... this is more dumbed down than anything!"

    Now, at level 11, with my Engineer, I have 5 skills for my dual pistols (two single attacks, a slow and two AOE attacks), the choice of 3 heals (a strong single potion, a lower AOE turret or.. a backpack full of bandages and potions which swap my 5 weapon skills and allow me to run around dropping potions and heals on the floor for people).

    Then I have a choice of 10 different utility skills of which I can use 3 at once currently. I have a flamethrower (which replaces my 5 weapon skills with flame based attacks), a grenade belt (which replaces my 5 weapon skills with different grenades to throw) and a spell that dazes the target and relects all the damage done to me back to my opponent. I can use these are any point in the fight.

    I still have 10 more skills to unlock, plus a load of "elite skills" plus two more skill slots on my bar.

    So, in a general battle, I can have 15 weapons skills and 5 heals, plus an additional 3 attacks or heals in my F1-3 bar (which are secondary versions of some of my utility skills).

    In a few levels time I unlock my secondary weapon slot, so I can swap mid battle and have yet another 5 skills appear.

    To me (and I know Im not the best MMO'er) this is quite alot of stuff to do whilst having a quick battle... especially at level 11.

    "When people don't know much about something, they tend to fill in the blanks the way they want them to be filled in. They are almost always disappointed." - Will Wright

  • KuinnKuinn MestaPosts: 2,093Member
    Originally posted by TheScavenger

    yeah, every MMO I can tell before level 10 if I like combat or not. WoW gave me tons of stuff before level 10, and TONS of stuff at level 10. Same with SWTOR and a lot of other MMOs.

     

    It isn't the worst combat in a MMO though, it is just really dumbed down. No mana or stamina...the staple of all RPGs is missing. Can't get more dumbed down than that. Even DCU, they made it where it regenned fast...but you still had to manage it.

     

    This is a joke right? I know I'm getting trolled but I want to answer since there's a chance that someone buy this crap.

     

    You have 13 (a bit depending on a prof) abilities at lvl10 in GW2. None of the examples you gave has more (not to mention they have tons of dead weight abilities).

     

    And the main point of you, dumbed down combat, you do realize that you are saying that games like WoW where you literally stand still hitting 1-3 buttons is more complex game because of a mana bar? I'm really sorry to say but you are missing something in between your ears. You simply die in GW2 if you stand still after noob zone. You have to dodge, cripple, stun, etc while being highly mobile unless with certain specs of certain classes.

  • RednecksithRednecksith Madison heights, MIPosts: 1,238Member

    Only thing that's currently pissing me off about the combat is the damned mobs resetting if you kite them too far or for too long. When much of the combat is about CC / kiting / dodging, that should not be happening. Period. I've had way too many veteran mobs reset when I'm about to win, which is incredibly frustrating. And I only just hit level 12...

    Mob density is also becoming problematic. As an engineer, kiting is my bread and butter, and in some areas it's nigh impossible because there are so many mobs around. It was kind of fun at first, but when you're just trying to explore or get from point A to point B, it becomes an exercise in frustration. And please spare me the 'be aware of your surroundings' spiel. Much of the time multi-aggro (at least so far) comes from respawns, which BTW happen far too quickly on my server.

    So no, it's not dumbed down. But it is getting tedious very quickly, at least for me.

  • MacecardMacecard WokingPosts: 142Member Uncommon

    WHAT!? Nothing in this entire thread makes any sense.

    1: Why exactly does the lack of mana/stamina = dumb down combat? thats never explained by anyone here.

    2: Comapling that a game is button mashing when thy are yet to invent a new type of input device that differs greatly to the keyboard is amazingly short sighted.

    3: GW2 is hard if you don't dodge and use your skills well. I personally have to stun any mob that is higher level than me twice during a 1v1 to not be close to death at the end. during 1v? I have to swtich to a large weapon that hits 3 targets in front of me with some skills. I am a thief and we have intiatiive which goes up over time and is used by most of my waepon skills, I cannot button bash without running out of initiative and If there are more mobs about I may need that to stay alive should another mob join the fight.

    From what I can see Elemantalists are stop from spamming by cooldowns. I have no xperience of other classes but I manage they all have some mechanic that stops them from becoming button spamming wow toons.

    Just for anyone with a below average IQ - 1 or autoattack doesn;t have to hit again after the first time, unless your ranged and your target moved out of range.

    I am so tired of people taking positive of a game like active combat and then calling shinnaigans when 1 or more parts of it are shared with another game. 

    If a developer realsed an MMO today that was 99% different from every other mmo every made, someone on this forum will complain that that 1% was stolen and stops the game from being innovative,

    However if it was 100% different, the same people would then post that the game makes no sense, has a steep learning curve, uses a control they can't figure out (yeh its not a keyboard to keep those "button mashing" people from exploding at the ears for another keyboard controled game.

    This is endless and just shows why mmo have a hard time doing well. the mmo market is full of consumers who only think they know what they want because of what they have read on forums and articles, think for yourselves, 

    I made no judgement of swtor or gw2 from what I read on this forum (be it HUGE negative or HUGELY positve). After playing swtor i decided it sucked, I never went on here to explain to everything that it sucked, I just moved on, and I thoguht id like gw2 from the betas but I never completly went over to the fanboi side and saved my judgement for release.

    It seems to me everyone has made this mind up years before gameplay for a game even exists, this goes for fanbois, haters and ppl in the middle. the average mmo consumer needs to get some perspective and realise we are talking about games and how much you personally like or dislike them is your own problem and really doesn't need to be discussed because the average mmo consumer clearly can't see past there own predigests's.

    If you continue to make sweeping statements like you know what everyone everywhere thinks about a certain topic then I am going to shout at you.
    It easy to type 'I think this is the worst game ever'
    Rather than the 'This is the worst game ever'

  • muthaxmuthax mondaPosts: 593Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Angier2758

    Are you guys really that inept or are you baiting us?

     

    Anyone saying this is just mashing buttons is probabaly "special".

     

     

    This. I think wowtards will try playing this like they do with wow and wowclones, missing out how combat really is supposed to work. There are no skill rotations. Or button mashing. OP, what you smoking??

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