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Game lacks direction

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  • IndromeIndrome NortheimPosts: 292Member
    Originally posted by DKLond

    In WoW - as crappy as the story is - you never need to go looking for something to do. In GW2 - not only do you have to actively search for something to do, you also need a REASON in terms of storytelling. I could probably do without a reason if, at least, they had a better way of showing where the events happen - because I don't enjoy wandering aimlessly until I find one - even if it's just 5 minutes. 5 minutes without an apparent purpose might as well be an hour.

    [ ... ]

    I think this is going to be a discussion about the differences in themepark mechanics between WoW and GW2.

    For the record. In WoW you have no visual cues on the map telling you where you HAVE TO go for that next quest hub. In GW2 you have visual cues and can ask scouts for where you CAN go. To me that makes all the difference.

    The fact that you can't know where the next DE is is a deliberate decision by ANet. These events have to be found by playing the game. That includes listening to NPCs, walking from Heart to Heart and constantly looking left and right in the process.

    Can it be that you found WoWs "storytelling" ... tighter in such a way that you were being "leashed along" from quest to quest? The world seeming more densely packed and rich as an effect of that?

    To me, an NPC TELLING you where to go and you HAVING TO go there is not got storytelling. It feels forced and more like a singleplayer RPG than having the OPTION to go wherever you want and find something worthwhile that you didn't even know about. In that way GW2 creates the feeling of an open world inside the bounds of a themepark MMO.

    The art of "stumbling upon stories" in GW2 might simply not appeal to you. But it is needed for the game manifesto to work out.

    image

  • DKLondDKLond AlbertslundPosts: 579Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Indrome
    Originally posted by DKLond

    In WoW - as crappy as the story is - you never need to go looking for something to do. In GW2 - not only do you have to actively search for something to do, you also need a REASON in terms of storytelling. I could probably do without a reason if, at least, they had a better way of showing where the events happen - because I don't enjoy wandering aimlessly until I find one - even if it's just 5 minutes. 5 minutes without an apparent purpose might as well be an hour.

    [ ... ]

    I think this is going to be a discussion about the differences in themepark mechanics between WoW and GW2.

    For the record. In WoW you have no visual cues on the map telling you where you HAVE TO go for that next quest hub. In GW2 you have visual cues and can ask scouts for where you CAN go. To me that makes all the difference.

    The fact that you can't know where the next DE is is a deliberate decision by ANet. These events have to be found by playing the game. That includes listening to NPCs, walking from Heart to Heart and constantly looking left and right in the process.

    Can it be that you found WoWs "storytelling" ... tighter in such a way that you were being "leashed along" from quest to quest? The world seeming more densely packed and rich as an effect of that?

    To me, an NPC TELLING you where to go and you HAVING TO go there is not got storytelling. It feels forced and more like a singleplayer RPG than having the OPTION to go wherever you want and find something worthwhile that you didn't even know about. In that way GW2 creates the feeling of an open world inside the bounds of a themepark MMO.

    The art of "stumbling upon stories" in GW2 might simply not appeal to you. But it is needed for the game manifesto to work out.

    I'm not the one trying to turn it into a competition between WoW and GW2. WoW is an old game, and I have no interest in going back to it. But, yes, WoW is VERY clear about where you need to go in any given area. There are paths that lead directly from quest hub to quest hub. While levelling, I never had to wonder where or what I should be doing. Doesn't mean the story was good - but there was more direction.

    Very basically, I simply want more direction. If the manifesto says there shouldn't be direction - then obviously, the game just isn't for me. Which was my main point in my original post.

     

  • EricDanieEricDanie Rio de JaneiroPosts: 2,238Member

    I do recognize this lack of direction you mean due to a lack of questing interaction (no quest hubs, no walls of text). It took me a while to get used to it.

    The only direction the game offers is the storyline quest. Other than that, it's based on exploration with events being linked more by lore (and a way to present it) than by a direct connection (the one true exception seems to be the major event line in each zone, which I really recommend you to experience it - for example, near Ruins of Ascalon City on the Charr starter area there will be a constant text explaining if it's currently calm, when it isn't, a chain of connected events leading to an awesome fight will start, at least that's how it worked in the Norn area for me near Frusenfell Creek).

    I enjoy it because I absolutely love exploration, especially one that has very little downtime restricting it - you have no need to ever go back because your bag is full or because you completed current quests. In fact, this makes the death penalty extremely harsh for someone aiming on exploration - being forced to return to a waypoint.

     

  • NitthNitth AustraliaPosts: 3,684Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Indrome
    Originally posted by DKLond  [ ... ] I have no idea why I'm doing what I'm doing. The dynamic events are fun - but I don't know why they happen or why I'm helping. Sure, the "Centaurs are attacking" - but there are no people to relate to or to feel compelled to help. [ ... ]
    I am forced to ask:

    Having played WoW (wild guess), where did you ever care for or relate to the people (NPCs) there? I myself never did. I only cared for my next lvl up.

    In Guild Wars 2, dynamic events don't just "start" like that. It's NPCs just doing what they do. An asuran scientist going out to collect skritts to study. A charr engineer trying to repair his submarine. A camp of refugees being attacked by the people you just rescued them from...

    You have to LOOK for the stories around the DEs. They're not force fed to you in GW2.


    I dont know if this is what the op is getting at but ill say this.

    In the burning crusade you had a sense of purpose. You were working your way towards the final encounter with illidan and could see the effects in the world from his presence and allies.

    In gw2, there doesnt seem to be this grand scheme or epic feel. Its more of a small tasks emulating a small farming community feel.

    Idk maybe the grand scheme hasnt revealed itself yet.

    image
    TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  • IndromeIndrome NortheimPosts: 292Member
    Originally posted by DKLond

    I'm not the one trying to turn it into a competition between WoW and GW2. WoW is an old game, and I have no interest in going back to it. But, yes, WoW is VERY clear about where you need to go in any given area. There are paths that lead directly from quest hub to quest hub. While levelling, I never had to wonder where or what I should be doing. Doesn't mean the story was good - but there was more direction.

    Very basically, I simply want more direction. If the manifesto says there shouldn't be direction - then obviously, the game just isn't for me. Which was my main point in my original post.

    Okay. I am sorry to assume about WoW.

    And yes, the lack of direction outside of the story missions is apparent and deliberate. This might turn you off the game and then it just says that it isn't for you. It happens.

    But then again, in real life you also don't really have "direction" other than what you set for yourself. Personally, I love GW2 because of that little gem.

    I understand where you come from now. Sadly no one can teach you how to appreaciate this game for what it is or how to change your views yourself. You'll have to live with missing out on some of the most beautiful 3D-artworked worlds in recent gaming history and being able to shape your MMO game experience the way you like it for once...

    (You should look into WildStar's "path" mechanics ... that might be for you. :) )

    image

  • DistasteDistaste Lancaster, PAPosts: 667Member
    Originally posted by DKLond
    Originally posted by Indrome
    Originally posted by DKLond

    In WoW - as crappy as the story is - you never need to go looking for something to do. In GW2 - not only do you have to actively search for something to do, you also need a REASON in terms of storytelling. I could probably do without a reason if, at least, they had a better way of showing where the events happen - because I don't enjoy wandering aimlessly until I find one - even if it's just 5 minutes. 5 minutes without an apparent purpose might as well be an hour.

    [ ... ]

    I think this is going to be a discussion about the differences in themepark mechanics between WoW and GW2.

    For the record. In WoW you have no visual cues on the map telling you where you HAVE TO go for that next quest hub. In GW2 you have visual cues and can ask scouts for where you CAN go. To me that makes all the difference.

    The fact that you can't know where the next DE is is a deliberate decision by ANet. These events have to be found by playing the game. That includes listening to NPCs, walking from Heart to Heart and constantly looking left and right in the process.

    Can it be that you found WoWs "storytelling" ... tighter in such a way that you were being "leashed along" from quest to quest? The world seeming more densely packed and rich as an effect of that?

    To me, an NPC TELLING you where to go and you HAVING TO go there is not got storytelling. It feels forced and more like a singleplayer RPG than having the OPTION to go wherever you want and find something worthwhile that you didn't even know about. In that way GW2 creates the feeling of an open world inside the bounds of a themepark MMO.

    The art of "stumbling upon stories" in GW2 might simply not appeal to you. But it is needed for the game manifesto to work out.

    I'm not the one trying to turn it into a competition between WoW and GW2. WoW is an old game, and I have no interest in going back to it. But, yes, WoW is VERY clear about where you need to go in any given area. There are paths that lead directly from quest hub to quest hub. While levelling, I never had to wonder where or what I should be doing. Doesn't mean the story was good - but there was more direction.

    Very basically, I simply want more direction. If the manifesto says there shouldn't be direction - then obviously, the game just isn't for me. Which was my main point in my original post.

     

    I just don't get what more you'd want in direction. I mean just going from heart to heart doing all dynamic events you come acrossed will level you through the zone. Do you REALLY need a quest saying "Go do heart 1!" "Go do heart 2", etc? You want a more indepth story but going heart to heart is too complicated? The game gives you a completion listing for each zone, need even more direction? Get 100% completion. Do that and you will be overleveled for everything.

     

    You just want everything spoonfed to you while your hand is being held. Too much direction is tedious(WoW and every clone since), but too little direction is overwhelming and confusing(sandbox games); GW2 strikes it just right with providing some handholding elements, you know those hearts I mentioned were put in just for people like you, wtihout forcing it on people but keeps some of the openness of a sandbox.

  • DKLondDKLond AlbertslundPosts: 579Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Distaste
    Originally posted by DKLond
    Originally posted by Indrome
    Originally posted by DKLond

    In WoW - as crappy as the story is - you never need to go looking for something to do. In GW2 - not only do you have to actively search for something to do, you also need a REASON in terms of storytelling. I could probably do without a reason if, at least, they had a better way of showing where the events happen - because I don't enjoy wandering aimlessly until I find one - even if it's just 5 minutes. 5 minutes without an apparent purpose might as well be an hour.

    [ ... ]

    I think this is going to be a discussion about the differences in themepark mechanics between WoW and GW2.

    For the record. In WoW you have no visual cues on the map telling you where you HAVE TO go for that next quest hub. In GW2 you have visual cues and can ask scouts for where you CAN go. To me that makes all the difference.

    The fact that you can't know where the next DE is is a deliberate decision by ANet. These events have to be found by playing the game. That includes listening to NPCs, walking from Heart to Heart and constantly looking left and right in the process.

    Can it be that you found WoWs "storytelling" ... tighter in such a way that you were being "leashed along" from quest to quest? The world seeming more densely packed and rich as an effect of that?

    To me, an NPC TELLING you where to go and you HAVING TO go there is not got storytelling. It feels forced and more like a singleplayer RPG than having the OPTION to go wherever you want and find something worthwhile that you didn't even know about. In that way GW2 creates the feeling of an open world inside the bounds of a themepark MMO.

    The art of "stumbling upon stories" in GW2 might simply not appeal to you. But it is needed for the game manifesto to work out.

    I'm not the one trying to turn it into a competition between WoW and GW2. WoW is an old game, and I have no interest in going back to it. But, yes, WoW is VERY clear about where you need to go in any given area. There are paths that lead directly from quest hub to quest hub. While levelling, I never had to wonder where or what I should be doing. Doesn't mean the story was good - but there was more direction.

    Very basically, I simply want more direction. If the manifesto says there shouldn't be direction - then obviously, the game just isn't for me. Which was my main point in my original post.

     

    I just don't get what more you'd want in direction. I mean just going from heart to heart doing all dynamic events you come acrossed will level you through the zone. Do you REALLY need a quest saying "Go do heart 1!" "Go do heart 2", etc? You want a more indepth story but going heart to heart is too complicated? The game gives you a completion listing for each zone, need even more direction? Get 100% completion. Do that and you will be overleveled for everything.

     

    You just want everything spoonfed to you while your hand is being held. Too much direction is tedious(WoW and every clone since), but too little direction is overwhelming and confusing(sandbox games); GW2 strikes it just right with providing some handholding elements, you know those hearts I mentioned were put in just for people like you, wtihout forcing it on people but keeps some of the openness of a sandbox.

    I think I've made myself perfectly clear several times. I could repeat myself, but it would be easier if you just read what I wrote instead.

    Try not to imagine what I'm saying and really read my words - because that's the best way to get at what I'm really saying.

  • funyahnsfunyahns michigan city, INPosts: 315Member
    So then let it go, move on. Pop on when you are bored and do something. You are not burning account time, and obviously you have made up your mind. So.
  • nate1980nate1980 Evans, GAPosts: 1,829Member

    OP,

    You're right, there isn't a whole lot of direction in this game, but there is some. Your story is the backbone of the direction, meaning it gives you something to do every other level, while directing you to a part of the map that you should be leveling in (sometimes). You'll also notice that the hearts have recommended levels next to their icons on the map, so I use those to direct me around the map. I do them in order from lowest to highest level, all the while doing any events that appear near me on the way. Of course, I always do my story mission when I hit equal level of the mission. That's plenty of direction for me.

    The kind of direction that themepark games give, the hub to hub quest grinds is too much direction for me. It actually feels like grinding, worse than mob grinding with a group, because it's all solo. If the way I go about things doesn't interest you or doesn't give you enough direction, then I guess this game isn't for you or you need to try another suggestion.

    MoP releases soon. I wouldn't try TSW, because it doesn't have anymore direction than GW2 does. In fact, the classless system will drive you mad, because there isn't any direction really on how to go about building your character.

    Whatever you decide, good luck. At least you can come to GW2 to play around in the Mists. The WvWvW is really fun. Reminds me of DAoC minus the ZZzzzZZZ floating above my head.

  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,643Member Uncommon

    OP... want direction?

    Then give yourself some. Take accountability for your own game and fun.

    I love thinking 'hrm, what do I feel like doing now?'

  • CyflymCyflym NeuwiedPosts: 30Member
    Originally posted by DKLond

    It feels really wrong that I have to search randomly, hoping an event is currently on-going.

    To me that sounds like "It feels wrong that the game word doesn't revolve around me".

  • ThanesThanes St. Augustine, FLPosts: 182Member
    OP is kind of setting himself up, I don't know if he's a troll or not.  Yes a game is suppose to be fun.  A lot of people don't want handholding and want more open world.
  • heartlessheartless Brooklyn, NYPosts: 4,993Member

    The best way I can describe it is the GW2 is more like Skyrim than your typical themepark MMO. You have your main story which takes you farther and farther away from the starting zone as you progress through it. Then you have the rest of the game's world with DEs and hearts.

    Renown Hearts are pretty straight forward, they are basically there to give you a nudge to get you moving in a particular direction. Usually there are DEs that happen in the vacinity of the hearts. DE's are where the game really shines. On the surface DE's may seem like your typical PQs or rifts but there is a lot more to them. Most of them have stories behind them and lead into other DEs if you stick around and/or follow the NPCs. If you're just going to run away after the DE is done, the game will feel disjointed to you because you're missing the other parts that bring it all together.

    GW2 is not a quest based game, it's an exploration based game. Basically, don't play the game like a typical themepark MMO. Don't just run from heart to heart and DE to DE. Play it more like Skyrim. Run around and explore, listen to various NPCs, interact with them and follow them. They lead to more stuff, like DEs and hidden locations.

    I've posted this example in another thread but I think that it's a good example of what GW2 is really about. In Metrica Province there a a camp of refugees that gets attacked by bad guys and there is a DE where you have to defend their camp. Most people would just run away after the DE is done but if you stick around and listen to the NPCs talk and then follow them, it leads to an attack on the enemy base. During the dialogue between the NPCs there is no indication that it leads to anything. It just seems like idle NPC chatter. Then the NPCs start running. There is still no indication that it leads anywhere. No "there is an event nearby" message nor is there a marker on the map, so if you just let them go, you'll miss the next part of that story. But if you actually take the time and follow them, it'll lead you to another DE where you'll help them assault the enemy base and save the refugee prisoners.

    image

  • thekid1thekid1 GroningenPosts: 789Member

    I haven't played the game yet, waiting for a free trial.

    I get the feeling the game feels like Fallout New Vegas or Skyrim but without the quests to keep the motor running. Yes, you could run around exploring in those games but mostly the quests give you a sense of direction so you had some sort of guide to point to you WHERE you should go exploring. This gives also a sense of purpose.

    Then there is the main quests which is on  top of that giving the whole thing even more purpose (even if you ignore the main quest, the story and sense of grand scheme purpose is still there)

    Is it like that?

     

  • funyahnsfunyahns michigan city, INPosts: 315Member
    Not even close to like that. Random events "quests" pop up and you have the choice to jump in.
  • thekid1thekid1 GroningenPosts: 789Member
    Originally posted by funyahns
    Not even close to like that. Random events "quests" pop up and you have the choice to jump in.

    Butt they have no story.

    Oh well, I will shut up because I haven't even played the game yet.

  • Dren_UtogiDren_Utogi OuterSpacePosts: 1,709Member Uncommon
    might be to sophisicated for some audiences who have had their hand held from 1-end lvl cap, so these threads are understandable.

    reviews are !@#$ing stupid. Play what you love.

  • DKLondDKLond AlbertslundPosts: 579Member Uncommon

    I enjoy the pile-on of insults based purely on me not loving the game :)

    I wouldn't mind taking the responses seriously, but you really need to read my posts and keep from placing me in the "WoW fanboy" box that seems to be reserved for everyone not loving GW2.

    Unless, of course, you just enjoy trying to insult people who don't agree with you. In that case, I'll let you get back to it :)

  • k-damagek-damage ParisPosts: 738Member
    Originally posted by DKLond

    Is it SUPPOSED to be aimless and about "fun" without purpose?

    Yes, exactly :) And as been mentionned, you can gather some directions by talking to each NPCs. Most of them will tell you the story of the place, and sometimes even trigger dynamic events if you follow them through the place, so it can be rewarding to talk to them.

    But overall, the spirit of the game is "you have all what other classical themeparks have, but in a totally non linear, non forced way". You 100% chose what your adventure will be, in a word.

     

    Originally posted by DKLond

    One thing that would help a lot is if the map showed ALL current events in the area - and you could get a small story-based exposition by clicking on them.

    It feels really wrong that I have to search randomly, hoping an event is currently on-going.

    No really, it doesn't feel wrong to have to search ... I was personnaly completely becoming sick of hand holding in latest themeparks. Click that NPCs - go there - click that other NPCs who tells me to go there - click 2 NPCs to gather quests, skip quest text ... etc .... Argh, just thinking about it makes me sick :s

     

    If GW2 was hand holding in the traditional themepark way, I would never have played it, I'm 100% sure of that.

    ***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****

  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Dublin, OHPosts: 3,415Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by I_Return
    might be to sophisicated for some audiences who have had their hand held from 1-end lvl cap, so these threads are understandable.

    Wait, are you saying GW2 doesn't hold your hand?

    Because I'm pretty sure it does....

    As soon as the game starts there are npc's telling you every little thing to do, there is even one that opens your map and points out where to go and how you can just go around to all the little hearts to play the game...

    Very hand holding game.

    That isn't inately a bad thing either.  

    It's just a thing.   I think for a Themepark game its probably expected / desired.

  • rwyanrwyan raleigh, NCPosts: 461Member

    I like the fact that I, as a player, am not actively directed by the game.  From my experience, the personal story isn't anything ground breaking thus far, but it is entertaining enough.

     

    I've been mostly exploring and it is nice that things just seem to "happen" around you.  I like the fact that you can feel that the developers are completely behind and love the game.  Very sublte nuances throught the gameplay and UI that are just outstanding.

     

    With that said, for me the game is entertaining.  No complaints thus far other than the pace seems a bit too fast.

  • funyahnsfunyahns michigan city, INPosts: 315Member
      You do have your main story line that is pretty in depth. The DE events are no where near as deep as that. But they are still enjoyable and some are fairly challenging. They will tell you why you are doing the event, it just is not in great detail. Where as your personal story has to do with what choices you make in you character background.  Maybe I am a little simple I suppose, I see monsters attacking a town, I don't really need much of a reason to involve myself in it.  Also, gets to the point where you have some enemies who keep popping up in different places, so once you have had a battle or two with them you are happy to jump in and attack. 
  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Dublin, OHPosts: 3,415Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DKLond

    I enjoy the pile-on of insults based purely on me not loving the game :)

    I wouldn't mind taking the responses seriously, but you really need to read my posts and keep from placing me in the "WoW fanboy" box that seems to be reserved for everyone not loving GW2.

    Unless, of course, you just enjoy trying to insult people who don't agree with you. In that case, I'll let you get back to it :)

    The community here has a problem with people who disagree with them.

    Its sad but true.

    People debate not the topic, but the poster all the time...

    A shame.  

  • funyahnsfunyahns michigan city, INPosts: 315Member
    I don't want to pile in on him. I told him what I thought, (Personal Story is whats important) Maybe it is a matter of geting the right race/class. I was not having fun with the game until I made a Norn Ranger. Now....I love it, Seems like I am constantly in the middle of DE.  But not only that but good fun challenging ones. I hope he finds something about the game he likes.
  • DKLondDKLond AlbertslundPosts: 579Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by k-damage
    Originally posted by DKLond

    Is it SUPPOSED to be aimless and about "fun" without purpose?

    Yes, exactly :) And as been mentionned, you can gather some directions by talking to each NPCs. Most of them will tell you the story of the place, and sometimes even trigger dynamic events, so it can be rewarding to talk to them.

    But overall, the spirit of the game is "you have all what other classical themeparks have, but in a totally non linear, non forced way". You 100% chose what your adventure will be, in a word.

    Well, obviously I don't have quests (beyond the personal story), stuff like open world PvP (not instanced WvW), power progression at cap - and so on.

    But you're right, the game does provide a lot of content - and it expects you to motivate yourself to go out and find it - wandering around.

    I think that's great for people who like wandering around looking for something to do, but not so great for people who like to know where to go for progression.

    I'd have preferred a better overview of events - and a way to to get involved in the lore that didn't involve actively seeking out NPCs hoping they might be the one to inspire me. As in, some kind of story delivery device to go along with the events themselves.

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