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where is a real mmorpg?

EnowaEnowa winslow, MEPosts: 18Member

I pose this question for a couple of reasons. I know to grind levels most games you have to fight. Yet most games I have played the rp has gone away on mmo's hence then new title. What happen to all things non combat to do,and to become a professional in. Do games like these still exist? I do not pvp nor enjoy raiding. Should i just follow my gut instincts n just walk away from the hole genre?

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Comments

  • ThorbrandThorbrand West Palm Beach, FLPosts: 1,198Member

    There are no MMOs being made and get ready to be flamed because of these gamers think all the games need is to be action adventures to be a MMO.

  • MephsterMephster Tyria, NJPosts: 1,188Member

    What would you consider to be the last great mmo ?  Most mmos are made up of combat and story. Not understanding what you want.

    Grim Dawn, the next great action rpg!

    http://www.grimdawn.com/

  • EnowaEnowa winslow, MEPosts: 18Member

    That is a logical question. I am looking for a open sandbox, with more player story driven role play. so if I am not questing I can do other things. SWG when it first came out was probably my best view of a good rp scene. where you felt immersed into the world.

  • drakaenadrakaena Posts: 488Member Uncommon

    Sad but true. For me, MMORPG's were intended to be a virtual D&D experience. Now they are online console games. 

     

    Our hopes rest with ArcheAge.

  • BigHatLoganBigHatLogan Bellingham, WAPosts: 688Member
    Originally posted by Enowa

    I pose this question for a couple of reasons. I know to grind levels most games you have to fight. Yet most games I have played the rp has gone away on mmo's hence then new title. What happen to all things non combat to do,and to become a professional in. Do games like these still exist? I do not pvp nor enjoy raiding. Should i just follow my gut instincts n just walk away from the hole genre?

    Maybe give EVE a shot?  If you tell me that you need to be some sort of elf and can't "be a spaceship" then you lose all cred with me anyway.  Otherwise, walk away for now. 

    Are you a Pavlovian Fish Biscuit Addict? Get Help Now!
    image
    I will play no more MMORPGs until somethign good comes out!

  • MephsterMephster Tyria, NJPosts: 1,188Member

    I agree that mmo should be more open world seemless worlds instead of theme parks if that makes any sense to you ? :)

    Grim Dawn, the next great action rpg!

    http://www.grimdawn.com/

  • GorweGorwe Ald'RuhnPosts: 2,476Member Uncommon
    What's wrong with epic, action oriented story? With well developed character(s), of course.

    Not everyone is hardcore crafter, you know(most of them do such things irl and Hence they avoid it)...
  • LarsaLarsa NurembergPosts: 990Member

    Sorry for sounding like a broken record cause I've said it frequently on these boards: most current MMOs (i.e. the themepark variety) are made for a target audience that doesn't like RPGs. Thus you get RPG-lite at best.

    For real MMORPGs you either need to play the old ones or the sandbox indy ones. Look at it from the bright side: small population also means tight-knit good community. :)

    I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.

  • wungunwungun SydneyPosts: 67Member
    To be honest the only MMO that i've played that's worth investing in is EVE Online. I have not found a single worthy MMO other than EVE.
  • Corbeau-xCorbeau-x Wallops Island, VAPosts: 4Member
    Sandbox games, like Eve, I'd recommend. Or there are the MUD's which I just commented on a minute ago. There are alot of RP options for non-combatants if you look hard enough (though it's a bit harder in games like Eve than MUDS).
  • eGumballeGumball New York, NYPosts: 151Member

    UO, EvE etc. However, the only, new title, offering a kinda of a sandboxy experience is Guild Wars 2. Don´t get me wrong, the game is a theme-park however, you can really find many sandboxy aspects in this game, such as open world where you can do whatever you want and where you have the choice to head to the path you enjoy.

    Otherwise, most MMORPGs are combat based.

  • HomituHomitu Hometown, HIPosts: 2,030Member
    I've only ever played real MMORPGs.  Where are the fake MMOs?
  • chefdiablochefdiablo Barrie, ONPosts: 202Member

    I wish an MMO would be developed where players could enlist themselves into combat roles in the same way we would do in a more real life scenario.

    Picture if you will a game where players can't be soldiers or warriors without first learning and practicing the skills.

    These games give players the ability to do everything right away and reward them with upgrades as advantages.

    A role player might want to be a farmer or craftsman and not a combat character. The choices should be available, but if I wanted to just be a farmer the option to be that would be nice as well.

    I enjoy combat games, but there are times when I just want to log into another world and just go about my business without fighting players and mobs.

    Not everyone wants to be in this type of game, but there are plenty of players that would. Role playing should not be overlooked so easily.

  • TechinsteinTechinstein Charlotte, NCPosts: 10Member
    If you want to try it out, a MMO called Vindictus. Hope I helped.

    image

  • XAPKenXAPKen Northwest, INPosts: 4,936Member Uncommon

    Try Larsa's list for some possible games to play.

     

    Pardon I ended up liking the mobile version of the thread.


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now turned Amateur Game Developer.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  Realm Lords 2 on MMORPG.com
  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,464Member Uncommon

    Well ROLE PLAY to me is not wuite what others call it.

    We are really just playing a developers game,so the ONLY role play i get from it ,is to role play THEIR classes/character designs.You know some people liketo role play a jet fighter or a warrior or a space ship captain ect ect.

    Leaving pvp out of the equation we have seen ONLY one design since i played FFXI.That one design is to have hand held linear questing ,that gives you loot and xp.Aside from soe mgames having crafting,there is really nothing else to these games.So players follow those linear quests until they reach end level,than ask for end game content,which really means isntance loot raiding,nothing more.Even the term Raiding is a bit quirky,it is just grab yourself a bunch of players and go get some loot.

    The combat imo will always be the fun part however that does not mean you cannot add other elements to combat such as puzzles for example.I have seen combat presented in many cools ways,it would take a novel t odescribe them all.

    Personally i would like to see a developer create total immersion,that means you craft everything in game.You can however start out with minimal magic casting abilities or throw rocks to cause damage early on.I would like to see  the enemies you fight drop the exact same stuff they are using against you.This means no swords dropping from Bears lol.

    Archeage  coming out tries to create some immersion as you build your own house and ships/boats.You don't magically warp around you travel on mounts or hand gliding,boats.However it will have it's share of cheap game design as well.

     


    Samoan Diamond

  • TruthXHurtsTruthXHurts El Do, KSPosts: 1,555Member
    Originally posted by Homitu
    I've only ever played real MMORPGs.  Where are the fake MMOs?

    All of the MMO's you've probably ever played are fake if you are under 27.

    "I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"

  • OdhelmOdhelm EskilstunaPosts: 40Member

    Im from the 80's when roleplaying was a charactersheet, dices and a with a game leader telling the story.. I'm not sure what you missing in the mmorpg's thats out there. But I have found myself a couple of times in a guild with the same roleplaying background as me and I tell you, it's a blast doing your own charachter development! Just goofing around, staying in character, and having fun with others that want to tell thier story.  I have done this with AoC and FFXI where I had a roleplaying dialog with other players. And that really enhanced does games for me!

    I should note that its extremely hard to find thoose kind of groups though :-(

  • guoke123guoke123 New York, NYPosts: 3Member
    I have played a lot of games before, and of course everyone knows that with every game there are glitches that are unavoidable. What's good about Soul of Guardian is they are quick to fix these within a day or two. Other games I play took them weeks before even acknowledging that there is a glitch in the game.  sog.wsgame.com
  • VardahothVardahoth Temecula, CAPosts: 386Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Deleted User

    What would you consider to be the last great mmo ?  Most mmos are made up of combat and story. Not understanding what you want.

    Brought to you by a jaded gamer

    As a hint I made this post originally for Tera around 2011 and instead got something very very different from what I wanted.

    ***** Copied & Pasted ******

    Here is what I am looking for in an mmorpg:
    __________________________________________________ _______
    I have played lineage 2 from c1 through the latest chronicle on and off, as well as almost every other MMORPG. I loved l2 but hate ncsoft and will never play another game by this company. I have been watching/waiting for TERA for the last 4+ years, and have a few collective thoughts I'd like to share to ensure the success of TERA.

    What seperated l2 from other mmorpgs
    The pvp system: Most MMORPG's are faction based (mostly 2-sided) pvp systems. L2 had it right in the beginning. You could pvp anyone with a risk/reward/flagging system. However, currently in L2 there is no risk in going red (easy to work off karma, and just about all gear can be safe-guarded from being dropped). I believe to implement a successful open-pvp system, there needs to be a risk vs reward system. The person pvping should think "is killing (or attempting to kill) this other player worth risking this." Loosing exp is a great way to keep the user grinding/partying/playing the game. The flag/karma system was a great way to keep someone from going on a killing spree (aka keeps griefers in check), but the lack of updating it made a person to be able to work off max karma in a few seconds (especially with the new bishop skill to not loose exp upon death).

    My solution: create an open pvp system where the following happens:
    #1 If you kill a player or get killed by a player, you loose 2 hours worth of exp grind.
    #2 same flagging system l2 had, but if you hit a player make the player flagged last at least 5 minutes (there are other mmorpg's that use this but they are rare).
    #3 same karma system l2 had but make it exp * level needed to -karma (makes it take at least 2 hours for the player to work off karma) and the player cannot die off karma, or implement a timing system like perfect world had (kill 1 unflagged = red for 1 hour, kill 2 = red for 3 hours, so forth).
    #4 if killed while red, chance to drop 1-5 pieces of items/gear (no augmentation safe-guard).
    #5 Allow clans/guilds (whatever they are called) to declare wars on each other and be able to kill each other without flagging or going red. The point of joining a clan is for protection and a clan war should be for the sole purpose of destroying another clan and not "oh lets declare war so we only loose 1/4 exp when we get killed and can go on our daily grind like nothing happened."
    #6 allow the user to turn pvp off (he can be killed by other players, but wont accidentally hit a player while trying to kill a monster causing the user to be flagged).

    This will ultimately make the end game a community based game which is what has kept l2 going for so long, and not doing the same last raid boss over 9,000 times.

    The grind: IMO if l2 had been heavily monitored kicking bots/farmers on the spots it would have been the top game over wow. The grind is what caused players to group up, socialize, and talk while effectively setting goals to get stronger for their character. The whole point of a MMORPG is to play with other people, not rush to max level by yourself in 2 days and just hit end game. I once played a 5x rate private server of L2 that had a system of a modified client (no two-boxing or botting) and no donating for items (quest items only so you didn't have to do the 2month class change quest if you didn't want to). This was way more fun than retail and more crowded. You had sieges full of people not getting 1-2 shotted, everyone making groups to level in effective places, and people making large clans to help each other out. I am also a firm believer that the more time a player puts into a character, the stronger it should be. If botting and cheaters are kept under control (explained on the last suggestion) then this can be put into play.

    My solution: Keep the grind heavy, but also allow for repeatable and non-repeatable quests to help for each level.
    #1 don't make the leveling-by-questing like WoW where you can do 4/2539 of level 4 quests to reach level 5. Keep the quests minimal and repetitive forcing a player to grind+benifits(exp/items/money from quest) for both solo and group areas(obviously higher rewards for group areas).

    Loosing exp(De-Level)/items upon death: Keep this system.
    L2 used to allow you to loose items if you died to a monster, but took that away sometime around c3/c4 (disappointing). Also, as you leveled past 75 you no longer lost 4% exp. My toon is level 85 and if he dies he looses 0.02% with an 80% rez (free) of which can be got back in about 30 seconds. If it's a wartag that kills me I loose 0.01% just for going to clan hall (thanks to clan luck level 2).

    My solution:
    #1 Players do not loose items/gear/gold to other players unless they are red. Instead they only loose it to monsters/bosses.
    #2 This is an effective deterrent for afk-botters and farmers. I used to pull trains in l2 to botters and farmers to get the loots. If I was leveling and someone tried to train me I'd just step aside and move to the safe zone until they left. If they didn't leave, call clan members for the wonderful pvp or move on.
    #3 This will allow people to question and test whether they should be leveling at that area or if it is too hard and wait a bit.

    All items/gear can be crafted, traded and over-enchanted: Keep this system with a few things added.
    One thing I liked about l2 is that you could work hard for that sword or boots and be able to sell it if you want to. I also liked how you could make the weapons a much cooler glow as the enchanting got higher. Another thing I liked was you can put an ability on the weapon to help your class, but this ability required crystals which were obtained from raid bosses. I liked how it took months to gather the mats needed to craft that 1 piece of armor or weapon. I liked how a whole piece of weapon/armor/jewelry would have a 1/2000 chance of dropping off a mob or a 1/50ish chance off a raid boss. There were only 2 things I didn't like about the system:
    #1 You either had to be a dwarf to craft end game gear, or buy it from a player who got it from a dwarf.
    #2 if your enchantment failed, your weapon broke and you would be left with using your fists against level 7x mobs if you didn't have a weapon to replace the one you broke.

    My solution:
    #1 Allow crafting as a secondary skill by all classes. This will allow a class to craft any weapon/armor/jewelry they have the recipee/scroll (whatever you want to call it) for. The also should not be craft specific, this will allow players to craft gear for their friends or to sell it on the market.
    #2 keep the "need this quantity of mats to craft" system. It forces the player to explore the land for different mats from monsters thus getting to know the game better.
    #3 if enchanting the weapon fails, the weapon should go to +0. Safe enchantments stay at +3 or +5. Do not make special scrolls to make enchantments only go down 1 level or you will have everyone running around with +100 weapons 1shotting players and bosses. This enchantment system will allow for a player to constantly work towards improving gear as they reach end game level.
    #4 Allow an auction-house (linked to every in-game auction house) to sell any item/gear. This will allow players to see how much items are really worth and reduce the chance of people being able to scam other newbies.
    #5 Keep the ability option for the weapon without soul-binding it to make the weapon unique.
    #6 Keep the glow effect for a weapon enchanting higher.
    #7 Allow the user to take the weapon/armor to a shop to change the color of the armor/weapon (this keeps from every character looking the same).

    No instances (well the real L2 had no instances): This was great. It kept everyone on their toes and allowed every person to be accounted for their actions by the community.

    My solution:
    #1 You can make high level bosses really hard to get to by putting really hard monsters that you need oh say (100+ groups of players) to kill. This will help prevent other clans from porting in to screw the raid up within the second. Instead the enemy clan will have to say "this clan going to do this raid, lets gather up and go in after them". The other clan can place a spy at the port in entrance and say "enemy clan is coming, lets kill them before we take on the raid boss, or soe out."
    #2 No instance leveling or bosses.

    Heroes: Stay away from this system.
    This imo, is one of the reason why l2 servers became so 1-sided. You had everyone working together on the server to go into 1 clan and lock down olympiad to get a clan full of all the heroes. The reason for this is because hero skills/weapons gave a massive advantage in winning pvp in clan fights, thus enabled 1 clan to dominate an entire server. IMO there should always be at least 3 power-houses fighting for balance.

    My solution:
    stay away from anything that gives a single clan massive advantages over anyone else in the server. If you are going to implement something such as the hero system, make sure you limit how many heroes a clan can have (say like 4/40 heroes per clan).

    Enchanting skills and no skill tree: I prefer this system.
    It allows the player to feel limitless on the skills they get and gamble for the chance on increasing the power of the skills. It's a good added risk vs reward system

    My solution:
    #1 Keep the exp/sp system that L2 had to learn skills.
    #2 Don't put a cap on enchanting skills, but don't allow items to get skills to stay the same level if they fail. Like gear if the enchant fails then it should go back to zero. Enchants should be kept at costing a certain amount of money+skillpoints (depending on the skill level).

    Sieges+Territory wards: Good events to help keep the game alive.
    I liked how clans could own a castle for 2 weeks and set a tax rate (with of course a cap of 15%) and collect taxes purchased from npc stores. I liked territory wars and how you could buy a certain amount of rare items once you got enough points (also liked how a different currency is used). I did not like how owning a ward made that 1 clan stronger than anyone else in the server by giving them +1 stat point.

    My solution:
    #1 Sieges should be kept where during the siege times, no player can loose anything upon death from another player (as long as the clan is signed to attack/defend within that castle zone, this will keep 1 clan from having 7 alt clans to own all the castles).
    #2 No implementation of only 1 clan can own this power per server.
    #3 A clan owning castles is okay as long as there are multiple of them and only 1 clan can own 1 castle.

    Last and most important bots/farmers/scammers: They must be under constant monitor by live GM's.
    L2 had the worst customer support for any game I have ever played, which is the main reason I will never play another game by them. I have learned they are in it for the money and not for the players. This is probably the #1 reason why the game died and there is more to read about it here:
    L2Blah - L2Guru
    *Note* you have to create an account to view this thread... it's free.

    My solution:
    #1 First offense of farmer/botter/scammer is perma-ban no exceptions
    #2 One thing I liked about Blizzard is anytime I reported a botter/farmer/scammer, I instantly got a response from a live gm within 5 minutes and the issue was resolved. Please learn from this.
    #3 Scamming should be a cause for ban because I have seen/known hundreds of good players who have quit because they got scammed. Granted if the player lets someone borrow they're gear, then they do so at their own risk. I'm talking about name-look-alike scams (people who create level 1 toons for the soul purpose of scamming), or people multiple trading and putting a +0 weapon in the last trade instead of a +10 or whatever to make the player overlook it.
    #4 I don't want to see any players with a sign over their head or shouting "buy gold from this website." If this happens the account should be banned within no more than 1 minute. If accounts are not free then farmers will not exploit this.
    __________________________________________________ _____

    There were a few replies to this I liked:
    __________________________________________________ _____
    Welcome Mr.Dwarf.

    Overall I enjoyed your post. I agree with you 100% on NC Soft and your desire for a hard-core pvp game. Unfortunately it seems the world overall disagrees. Even L2 has changed to where the xp loss upon death is completely meaningless.

    Every MMO producer is looking at dollars and popularity. I can't blame them as they are businesses. The challenge is, hard core pvp and death penalties seems to be a niche which no one is willing to support. Your suggestion of requiring two hours to grind back the xp loss from a single death realistically means players wont pvp.

    I remember the great sieges of L2 where very active players would cheer on Wednesday or Thursday of the following week because they had just earned back enough xp to restore their siege xp loss. These were players who grinded for many hours each day. Those were some great times.

    Anyway, Tera is not going to be the hardcore game you desire, and I have looked closely at the competing games such as GW2 (NC Soft which I don't want to consider playing), Blade & Soul, C9 and a couple others. None of them have the system we desire, and even if a brand new "legit" L2 server was to open tomorrow, there is not any real xp loss on death.
    __________________________________________________ ___

    And if you do you will quickly realize that the time of the "legendary true-hardcore MMO games of old" is over.
    Stop striving for another L2, you will most likely not get it in your lifetime, and i dare to say that in a few years (ymmv) you will not want it anymore. The reason is explained here: What it's like to play online games as a grownup - The Oatmeal.

     

    ***** Copied & Pasted ******

    I Quit.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/436845/page/1

    http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2316034
    .............
    Retired Gamer: all MMORPG's have been destroyed by big business, marketing of false promises, unprofessional game makers, and a generation of "I WIN and GIVE ME NOW".

  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,464Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Enowa

    I pose this question for a couple of reasons. I know to grind levels most games you have to fight. Yet most games I have played the rp has gone away on mmo's hence then new title. What happen to all things non combat to do,and to become a professional in. Do games like these still exist? I do not pvp nor enjoy raiding. Should i just follow my gut instincts n just walk away from the hole genre?

    Well you have to be careful when mentioning NON COMBAT,because almost EVERYTHING is related to combat.

    As to the question of a real MMORPG,NONE exist,even a game i once proclaimed as the ultimate MMORPG [FFXI] is no longer the same game.Now EVERY single game is a clone,you either follow the speed leveling or do pvp.

    You need to first remember where the RPG genre started >>>DnD.It was all about combat.Along the way games have found ways to add some new systems to add a form of realism to the game world,something Dnd could not do.SO although the title of the genre suggests you could role play anything,it really is a genre designed around combat.

    It is basically like saying you want to role play a hockey player but don't want to be a centre/defense or goaltender.

    I believe what the OP really means is "Where is the DEPTH" in game design.You wants lots of options to roleplay your combat player.


    Samoan Diamond

  • SaintPhilipSaintPhilip Bree, MIPosts: 713Member
    Originally posted by Wizardry
    Originally posted by Enowa

    I pose this question for a couple of reasons. I know to grind levels most games you have to fight. Yet most games I have played the rp has gone away on mmo's hence then new title. What happen to all things non combat to do,and to become a professional in. Do games like these still exist? I do not pvp nor enjoy raiding. Should i just follow my gut instincts n just walk away from the hole genre?

    Well you have to be careful when mentioning NON COMBAT,because almost EVERYTHING is related to combat.

    As to the question of a real MMORPG,NONE exist,even a game i once proclaimed as the ultimate MMORPG [FFXI] is no longer the same game.Now EVERY single game is a clone,you either follow the speed leveling or do pvp.

    You need to first remember where the RPG genre started >>>DnD.It was all about combat.Along the way games have found ways to add some new systems to add a form of realism to the game world,something Dnd could not do.SO although the title of the genre suggests you could role play anything,it really is a genre designed around combat.

    It is basically like saying you want to role play a hockey player but don't want to be a centre/defense or goaltender.

    I believe what the OP really means is "Where is the DEPTH" in game design.You wants lots of options to roleplay your combat player.

    LOl- D&D was NOT "all about combat" not is it really where RPG's started-

    That aside , games like "Chainmail" (i.e. Wargames) were all about combat- D & D was an offshoot of Chainmail- Find some older (or even newer) modules and read them. manu of the old adventures were far more "mysteries" and "storytelling" than "combat combat combat".

    But yes, there was combat in D&D. =P

    EFIT: D&D was about ROLE PLAYING not ROLL PLAYING- Combat centric games were reversed and were about ROLL PLAYING. LOL. many, many people often purpousfully "gimp" their characters or give them traits which make them more diffiicult to ROLE PLAY- As playing "make believe" with rules is what D&D is/was about.

  • f0dell54f0dell54 Des Moines, IAPosts: 329Member Common

     

    Go play UO (if you don't mind older graphics) and find a good role playing guild. Join the Atlantic shard it is the most populated I know for a fact that it has some decent role playing if you look for it. PVP is all optional in UO now and they have champ spawns in the place of raid bosses but again they are optional.

     

    Heck if you decide to play UO send me a PM and I'll spot a little gold to get you started.

  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Boca Raton, FLPosts: 867Member Uncommon

    Vendetta Online

    (The link explains why I think VO has great RP potential, and showcases a video highlighting some combat that has influenced events in the galaxy since the time it was filmed).

    "To be what you are not, experience what you are not." -Saint John of the Cross
    Authored 110 missions in Vendetta Online
    Check it out on Steam

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,596Member Uncommon
    They are all in the past
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