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How's it different than MO?

PancakeEffctPancakeEffct IHOPPosts: 42Member

I honestly want to know how is this game going to be differnt than Mortal Online and not go down the drain? How are they going to make the game "fun" but deep?

What concernce me the most is the classes. While thempark is downright aweful, Darkfall was WAY to relaxed on the skill points, and Mortal Online was WAY to strict on the skill points. Everyone was Idiot Savants in MO, and you have to make analt to just learn how to wipe your own ass. The game was a alt fest. How is EOC going to set it apart?

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  • SalengerSalenger Pottageville, ONPosts: 542Member Uncommon

    Odd question considering at this point EOC is 5 years from the eta for release. 

    But i think they can look at the failures of games like MO and Darkfall, both of which had minimal funding and minimal people behind the games, being able to see similar styled games fail on various points of interest will always help in any endeavour...its like the old saying you cant conquer Rome in a day.

    But again its really hard to say anything about this game for the simple fact the ETA is december 30, 2016.  It could flop, become vaporware, get bought out by another company...so many posibilities.  I honestly think it has way too much hype for a game that far away from release...but they are creating an interest...problem for me is that in 5 years...i might have left MMO's in my past, as im already older than most gamers.

     

     

  • GrixxittGrixxitt New Orleans, LAPosts: 545Member Uncommon

    I think it was MO, and the failure thereof, that was actually the catalyst for joining a bunch of the devs together to make their own MMO.

    More answers can be found on the Embers websight, just ask a question in general and chances are you'll get an answer by one of the devs themselves.

    The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)

    -The MMO Forum Community

  • ThradokThradok St. James, MNPosts: 57Member
    Originally posted by PancakeEffct
    I honestly want to know how is this game going to be differnt than Mortal Online and not go down the drain? How are they going to make the game "fun" but deep? What concernce me the most is the classes. While thempark is downright aweful, Darkfall was WAY to relaxed on the skill points, and Mortal Online was WAY to strict on the skill points. Everyone was Idiot Savants in MO, and you have to make analt to just learn how to wipe your own ass. The game was a alt fest. How is EOC going to set it apart?


    Being able to learn too much or too little is simply a balance issue IMO,  and it probably isn't worth debating numbers at this point. Do note that this will be a single character game, so if people want alts they will have to pay. You will always be able to shift the focus of your character and do something new, so don't worry about getting locked in and having to reroll. I seem to remember someone saying that they may have skill and stat gain be somewhat quick, so people don't feel they are stuck with their character if they want to change. (Not 1-2 days, but not 6 months either, don't remember any numbers)

    Anyway, it's probably fine just to wait a while and see what is planned for the stat system before we talk about this kind of stuff just yet. And yes, the hype is a little crazy considering the intended release schedule but it will sort itself out I'm sure.

  • username509username509 beverly hills, CAPosts: 635Member Common

    By the time Embers has launched Mortal Online will be polished and have all the features Embers is promising.  

    If your looking for a Mortal Online clone I'd either stick with Mortal or wait for ArcheAge.

    Never trust a screenshot or a youtube video without a version stamp!

  • ThradokThradok St. James, MNPosts: 57Member
    Originally posted by username509
    By the time Embers has launched Mortal Online will be polished and have all the features Embers is promising.   If your looking for a Mortal Online clone I'd either stick with Mortal or wait for ArcheAge.

    Having Mortal become the game that EoC is trying to be would be perfectly fine with me, and I hope it happens (spoken as an EoC fanboi). I've got nothing against having another good sandbox out there.

    And it's not like if you 'stick with Mortal' you are making a decision right now. EoC isn't out yet, and won't be for a while. Play whatever the heck you want.

  • NefastusNefastus Long Beach, CAPosts: 71Member
    Originally posted by username509
    By the time Embers has launched Mortal Online will be polished and have all the features Embers is promising.   If your looking for a Mortal Online clone I'd either stick with Mortal or wait for ArcheAge.

    By the time EoC is released, MO will be shut down. Besides, how is it a clone when EoC is not focusing on PvP and has listed a massive amount of features which were never even considered for MO.

    Nefastus - Enclave

  • charlizdcharlizd sydneyPosts: 923Member Uncommon

    Not to be too harsh but who would want to make a Clone of Mortal....../puke

    IT has a lot of good features to look forward too, it seems the Devs have put a lot of thought into it and are heading down the right track, IF they can pull it off i wish them all the best, am currently working on something similar with a small team myself so all the best to the guys at Forsaken Studios, i look forward to stealing some ideas from you :)

    image

  • SabbathSMCSabbathSMC Katy, TXPosts: 226Member

    I'm not sure i agree that Darkfall failed completely and forsure not as bad as Mortal online.

    But what about  http://www.therepopulation.com/   it looks interesting.

    played M59,UO,lineage,EQ,Daoc,Entropia,SWG,Horizons,Lineage2.EQ2,Vangaurd,Irth online, DarkFall,Star Trek
    and many others that did not make the cut or i just plain forgetting about.

  • SkeetlesSkeetles Para HillsPosts: 2Member

    MO and DF still had limitlations that the dev's of EoC dont want to have in their game, to me EoC is going to be closest medievil clone but they will keep it fun.

    One thing that really attracts me to this game is the amount of power one can obtain, a truely skilled player not only in combat but in politics could literally take over huge territories and eventually 1 dominate nation would rule a lot of the world.

  • deathshrouddeathshroud londonPosts: 1,366Member

    EOC is a long way from being finished, All developers start making promises but very few deliver on release day, i know of not 1 single indie mmo developer that has. There will be content that wont make the release date guaranteed. They dont even have any form of financial support to see them through 5 years. MO at least had that. Im just trying to be realistic here, they dont have their own engine and most likely wont have the programming knowledge of the darkfall team and in 5 years anythnig can happen. So be prepared to be disapointed.

     

    The MO devs focused on pvp first and with good reason, pvp content provides the greatest form of replayability and endgame content for an mmo over anythnig else. When your game isnt finished and your an indie project bleeding subs you focus on the biggest lure to keep players playing. All games need pvp balancing and tweaking and EOC will be no exception when it releases. So you should expect them to focus on pvp first when the game launches if they want to actually survive. 5 years beofre rleease and making promises i dont even think henrik started it so early and im also pretty sure that when both AV and SV started making promises theyalso sounded amazing.

    there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.

  • JakdstripperJakdstripper British Columbia, CanadaPosts: 2,178Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by PancakeEffct
    I honestly want to know how is this game going to be differnt than Mortal Online and not go down the drain? How are they going to make the game "fun" but deep? What concernce me the most is the classes. While thempark is downright aweful, Darkfall was WAY to relaxed on the skill points, and Mortal Online was WAY to strict on the skill points. Everyone was Idiot Savants in MO, and you have to make analt to just learn how to wipe your own ass. The game was a alt fest. How is EOC going to set it apart?

    hopefully it will be mostly bug free?

     

     

    MO is a gem of an idea that sadly was completely squandered because the devs didn't know how to code. if MO had had talented professional coders it would be a very succesful niche game right now. not hugely popular but definately a diamond for the full loot, sandbox crowd.

     just about all that trioed MO liked the concept, style and feel but just couldn't handle all the bugs and exploits and most ended up leaving..... and who can blame them? it's been almost 2 years and the game runs like crap.

     

    i truly hope that EoC is much like MO just properly coded and policed. i personaly like the restriction that MO has on classes, but i also believe you should only have 1 character per account in a full loot game. if you want to change "class" it should take you a month or so of reading nad retraning your skills but you should be forced to do it on the 1 character you have. i dont agree with DF's take on skills/abilites. being able to max everything just makes everyone the exact same (tank battle mage with healing).

    hopefully the EoC's devs can strike a good balance.

  • username509username509 beverly hills, CAPosts: 635Member Common
    Originally posted by salenger
    Odd question considering at this point EOC is 5 years from the eta for release.  But i think they can look at the failures of games like MO and Darkfall, both of which had minimal funding and minimal people behind the games, being able to see similar styled games fail on various points of interest will always help in any endeavour...its like the old saying you cant conquer Rome in a day. But again its really hard to say anything about this game for the simple fact the ETA is december 30, 2016.  It could flop, become vaporware, get bought out by another company...so many posibilities.  I honestly think it has way too much hype for a game that far away from release...but they are creating an interest...problem for me is that in 5 years...i might have left MMO's in my past, as im already older than most gamers.    

    Meanwhile Mortal online is getting better and better same goes for Darkfall AND we have several new sandboxes on the horizon.  Embers is going to have some stiff competition.

    Never trust a screenshot or a youtube video without a version stamp!

  • wowcloneswowclones Los Angeles, CAPosts: 127Member

    mortal online is a real game.

  • RohnRohn Saint Peters, MOPosts: 3,729Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by wowclones
    mortal online is a real game.

     

    That's a difference right now.

    For the future, however, EoC appears to have some very similar gameplay ideas.  They certainly have a lofty set of planned features.  It's a game that is probably still years away, however, and so far, they have not shown that they will be able to deliver what they plan.

    I'm looking forward to the game, but I'm going to stay realistic about what they will be able to develop.

    Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.

  • BigRock411BigRock411 Barrington, ILPosts: 299Member

    Hey!

    Random poster with an opinion here.

     

    You guys are starting with a solid and fluid combat system thats entertaining THEN adding all the cool features ect right?

    Or are we taking the MO/Xyson/Dawntide/Earthrise route and making a nice looking world then launching with combat as a "to do list"?

     

    I have a little theory thats been somewhat proven by all the failed attempts at sandboxes.  Seems for a while they worked on the feature list and the world first then figured people would want to play untill combat was...well fun...and most of those games that took this route failed or are in permanant alpha state (lookin at you MO)

     

    So perhaps since the game is scheduled to launch well after the world ends, perhaps you could make me feel better about the hopes of playing this game ina  real life post apocolyptic stting inbetween fending off the zombies. 

    Please tell me that your going to work on combat and making it fun first rather than hoping players are going to want to craft and build crap while they wait for a source of entertainment.

    Poeple will not stick around a game waiting for a working combat system and it seems to be the last thing on all these indy sandbox developers to do lists...hence the reason so many die or spend eternity as a low pop beta test.

  • NefastusNefastus Long Beach, CAPosts: 71Member
    Unfortunately PvP and competetiveness aren't core points of development, so we will see how game will end up as far as those features go. It really saddens me, because if PvP and competetive nature of the game won't be strong and polished, then game won't go far.

    Nefastus - Enclave

  • JakdstripperJakdstripper British Columbia, CanadaPosts: 2,178Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nefastus
    Unfortunately PvP and competetiveness aren't core points of development, so we will see how game will end up as far as those features go. It really saddens me, because if PvP and competetive nature of the game won't be strong and polished, then game won't go far.

     nailed it right on the head.

    if a game is based arround ffa, full loot pvp that pvp has to be flawless. i really hope they can pull it off as there is really nothing as ambitious as EoC out right now. i hope unlike MO these guys know how to code.

  • redman875redman875 illinois, ILPosts: 230Member

    Well when i look at what this game is attempting i do applaud.  I pray that they focus on the combat system first.  A sandbox needs a solid combat system and this is where most games have utterly failed, most having closed their doors or never left alhpa phase...i blame the combat.

     

    While i think on paper MO has a lot of good...i really hope they take some key elements out of Darkfall.  That game did a lot right but failed in some major sandbox departments.

    First of all the combat is enjoyable, i give that credit for it being one of the most populated indy sandboxes (doesnt say much i know and its kind of dead but still)

    Second is the full loot and weapon mechanics.  Drag and drop loot is a pain but leads to some high tension moments where you literally have a split second to decide what to loot, your vulnerable when looting as well...solid mechanic.  The weapon mechanics have weapons and gear that just dont last very long, via pve useage and breaking or getting looted. Easy come easy go nothing is gonna last long which is a good full loot mechanic.

    Darkfall failed in making no benefit to having fresh armor, leaving pvpers wearing near broken gear...which was a flaw.

    The major flaw was the lack of any seperation of role mechanic.  Everyone was the top of every type of combat in mexed heavy/light sets.  I certainly never want to play a sandbox where i need to make an alt to accomplish a specialized task but i sure as hell want to be limited to what skills or abilities i engage in combat with, be it gear restricted or a select number of skills i can use at once.

     

    In case people will say grind is what killed darkfall...years of making the grind easier, adding medatation and now 20x sp gains and the servers are right were they were no gain...wasnt grind.  Grind is good in a sandbox.  When your character become an accomplishment you stick with it.  When any idiot with 30 min of free time a day can max out a character in a month theres no attachment to the time spent in game.

     

    Also, please forsaken...do NOT cater to the FPS pvp crowd.  Darkfall caved in to these people and the game is looking more and more like one giant deathmatch in a fps game.  

     

    Deliver a solid pve game with full loot pvp and clan warfare/seiges and this games a win.  Cater to the hard core pvpers who want max skill characters with no effort put in and the games a dud like DF.  

     

     

    Ill keep my fingers crossed for this one, the need for a solid full loot sandbox is out there...theres a void to fill, a void that filled with many rotting corpses of other games and many paralyzed and near dead games ready to keel over for good.  Most of these dead games failed to deliver entertaining combat at launch and never recoverd.  DF is really the best sandbox out there and its barely a sandbox on the pve side simply because its combat was fantastic and a few other decent mechanics (i enjoyed farming pve mobs...that were more than just mobile resource nodes that fought back...which is what a game should have...MO the mobs felt like boring resource nodes)

  • ThradokThradok St. James, MNPosts: 57Member
    Redman...going by what we know, I think you'll be happy.  :)
  • redman875redman875 illinois, ILPosts: 230Member
    Originally posted by Thradok
    Redman...going by what we know, I think you'll be happy.  :)

     

    Ok here is my question, which im sure has no answer given how its so damn early in development really and discussion is moot.

    The pve combat.  Will EoC take the MO route or the DF route.  Will pve combat be another form of node farming for crafting or will you be getting currency/resources/usable loot (even if its crap) off pve mobs...making them more like a rpg and less like a crafting sim?

    I forget if MO had nothing but resources on mobs..i think it did...but it was overly obnoxious to farm mobs that didnt yeild anything that could benefit me.  I had to log off, then log on my crafter...another aspect of MO i hated.

    I know people LOVE skill caps.  I dont see any reason my fighter cant figure out how to make a few weapons or how chopping some wood would prevent me from being a great melee fighter.  

    I really dont want to have to make alts to experience the whole game...however i do not want a darkfall style combat where you can be the best at everything all at once...need gear or skill selection/usage restrictions.

    I feel in a sandbox that i should be able to put on my crafting hat and make my gear, then put on a helmet and sword and go fight stuff, chopping wood nearby on my way there ect.  In MO and other games with a skill cap i never wanted to do anything but specifically what the character was going to be later on...restricting gameplay and causing people to roll alts.

    From what ive heard about this game, they loved MO but hated the combat.  I agree with the combat but theres a whole lot mechanically i disliked about MO...despite it had a lot of features i did find interesting.  in execution it was a mess of alts, no communication ability, no freedome in race or starter areas less i wanted to play a single player game...it all felt so restriticting...on top of horrible combat and boring pve combat encounters.

     

    short list of concerns:

    • One character/account type of game where i can be it all just not at the same time without losing skills to do something?
    • How will they regulate skill use?  Gear based? Skill selection in a safe zone? Decay and regrind?  
    • PvE mobs that are more than wandering resource nodes strictly for crafting mats?
    • Communication restrictions?  
    • What end game skill mechanics will exist?
    • Will there be melee skills or just hack n slash? Or something like DF where theres like one skill the same across all weapons liek whirlwind or power attack or knockback (that was all of them right?)
    • how many weapons/ schools of magic...how will magic be incorperated as to not be OP and needed to compete
     
     
    Realize its early and they probably dont know.  I hope ill be happy but im going to try to forget about this game for a while..way too early and plenty of time to add game breaking features.
  • ThradokThradok St. James, MNPosts: 57Member
    Originally posted by redman875


    One character/account type of game where i can be it all just not at the same time without losing skills to do something? How will they regulate skill use?  Gear based? Skill selection in a safe zone? Decay and regrind?   PvE mobs that are more than wandering resource nodes strictly for crafting mats? Communication restrictions?   What end game skill mechanics will exist? Will there be melee skills or just hack n slash? Or something like DF where theres like one skill the same across all weapons liek whirlwind or power attack or knockback (that was all of them right?) how many weapons/ schools of magic...how will magic be incorperated as to not be OP and needed to compete  

     

    Stat system:

    Dynamic Ecology:

    Those might help a bit. I'm guessing the skill system will be similar to the stat system. Basically, use skills to raise them, they decay if you use too many other skills. The rate of that is tbd. Not annoying for daily use, not too horrible to completely change your character. Don't want to force people to buy alts. We don't know too much about melee combat...more player skill than DF, less than m&b? I vaguely recall hearing about special attacks being learned, like you mention. As for magic...well there are 8 threads, but only 2 at a time can be used by disciples (priests or clerics or w/e) depending on their god/religon. The idea is to have more utility type spells instead of just 'boom boom fireball lulz' in general. Also, no straight healing during combat. As for Magi, they can use all 8 threads, but we're told it'll be hell to be a Magi. The creative director (Rob) says he can't wait for the tears when the game starts and people try to be Magi :P

  • redman875redman875 illinois, ILPosts: 230Member
    Originally posted by Thradok
    Originally posted by redman875


    One character/account type of game where i can be it all just not at the same time without losing skills to do something? How will they regulate skill use?  Gear based? Skill selection in a safe zone? Decay and regrind?   PvE mobs that are more than wandering resource nodes strictly for crafting mats? Communication restrictions?   What end game skill mechanics will exist? Will there be melee skills or just hack n slash? Or something like DF where theres like one skill the same across all weapons liek whirlwind or power attack or knockback (that was all of them right?) how many weapons/ schools of magic...how will magic be incorperated as to not be OP and needed to compete  

     

    Stat system:

    Dynamic Ecology:

    Those might help a bit. I'm guessing the skill system will be similar to the stat system. Basically, use skills to raise them, they decay if you use too many other skills. The rate of that is tbd. Not annoying for daily use, not too horrible to completely change your character. Don't want to force people to buy alts. We don't know too much about melee combat...more player skill than DF, less than m&b? I vaguely recall hearing about special attacks being learned, like you mention. As for magic...well there are 8 threads, but only 2 at a time can be used by disciples (priests or clerics or w/e) depending on their god/religon. The idea is to have more utility type spells instead of just 'boom boom fireball lulz' in general. Also, no straight healing during combat. As for Magi, they can use all 8 threads, but we're told it'll be hell to be a Magi. The creative director (Rob) says he can't wait for the tears when the game starts and people try to be Magi :P

     

    Ugh...stat decay.  That means ill need a dedicted crafter alt to feed my combat...and ill have to avoid doing to much resourcing between mob spawns on my cobat lest i decay something.

     

    Theres got to be a more creative way to handle people being the best at everything during combat without such an annoying system.

  • NefastusNefastus Long Beach, CAPosts: 71Member
    Who says you won't be able to be a pvper and a crafter? If combat is made to be mainly player skill oriented, then you won't have to raise many combat oriented stats.

    Nefastus - Enclave

  • ThradokThradok St. James, MNPosts: 57Member

    Originally posted by redman875
     

    Ugh...stat decay.  That means ill need a dedicted crafter alt to feed my combat...and ill have to avoid doing to much resourcing between mob spawns on my cobat lest i decay something. Theres got to be a more creative way to handle people being the best at everything during combat without such an annoying system.

     

    Or, you know, a working economy so you don't feel the need to do everything yourself. And gear not being as big of a deal as in some other games. (See Nefastus' post) Also, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a way to lock the stat to prevent accidental decay. If you want to do everything yourself and be self sufficient in a multiplayer online game...expect some drawbacks.

     

    Originally posted by Nefastus
    Who says you won't be able to be a pvper and a crafter? If combat is made to be mainly player skill oriented, then you won't have to raise many combat oriented stats.

     

  • PancakeEffctPancakeEffct IHOPPosts: 42Member
    Originally posted by Thradok
    Originally posted by redman875
     
    Ugh...stat decay.  That means ill need a dedicted crafter alt to feed my combat...and ill have to avoid doing to much resourcing between mob spawns on my cobat lest i decay something. Theres got to be a more creative way to handle people being the best at everything during combat without such an annoying system.

     

    Or, you know, a working economy so you don't feel the need to do everything yourself. And gear not being as big of a deal as in some other games. (See Nefastus' post) Also, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a way to lock the stat to prevent accidental decay. If you want to do everything yourself and be self sufficient in a multiplayer online game...expect some drawbacks.

     

    Originally posted by Nefastus
    Who says you won't be able to be a pvper and a crafter? If combat is made to be mainly player skill oriented, then you won't have to raise many combat oriented stats.

     

     

    That's what MO tried, but failed. You had to create a whole alt just to freaking fish (to do so decently)

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