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Why do People Hate OWPVP?

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  • VladrielVladriel Russellville, ARPosts: 46Member
    Originally posted by dave6660

    I think the more important question is why do people insist on playing OWPVP games knowing what they're getting into then complain about the ruleset?

    Wouldn't it be silly if I played WoW and complained I have to fight computer controlled monsters.

    Well since you play wow then you know it isn't just a OWPVP game since it has different servers. I'm on a pve server. What do you mean by ruleset? Players on a pvp server don't follow any rules when they gank.  

  • davhut21davhut21 hoover, ALPosts: 14Member Uncommon

    I enjoy playing on a PvP server in most games. It is fun not knowing when someone will come along and bring the fight. That being said until somene makes it so you can only attack another player that is within a specific level range of yourself then there will always be iditots camping people in low level areas. These are, a lot of times, the same people that never win fights against players that are their level. Guild Wars 2 does not have factions though so it would not make sense to have the open world PvP. As a single group players are fighting against the evils that are attacking Tyria.

    To sum up. Open world PvP not a bad thing until it becomes a gankfest but it has no place in GW2.

  • Shadows59Shadows59 Frazer, MTPosts: 47Member
    Personally don't like it because it gives idiots the excuse to grief others in t pvp is involved when some idiot thinks that being say 50 levels above and going to a newbie zone is a challenege. I alos like to quest without having to constantly watch over my shoulder for said jackass that just wants to grief me and then camp my body.

    image
  • PrenhoPrenho AracajuPosts: 298Member
    Originally posted by Shadows59
    Personally don't like it because it gives idiots the excuse to grief others in t pvp is involved when some idiot thinks that being say 50 levels above and going to a newbie zone is a challenege. I alos like to quest without having to constantly watch over my shoulder for said jackass that just wants to grief me and then camp my body.

    It happens due to the lack of any rule for pk or clan war, MMOs after WoW can't have any other form of pvp, only instances, because there is ano rules, no objectives and no consequences, it turns the owpvp a random gank fest instead of organized guilds that fight for world resources and power.

  • GrixxittGrixxitt New Orleans, LAPosts: 543Member
    Originally posted by Caffynated

    I don't hate OWPvP. I hate poorly implemented OWPvP.

    This x a million. Cool Shadowbane story by the way.

    For those of you who aren't aware, consequences for your actions are starting to get implemented for most of the upcoming sandbox/FFA games. Its just a pity its taken this long

    The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)

    -The MMO Forum Community

  • ForumPvPForumPvP KingstownPosts: 871Member
    Originally posted by evolver1972
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    When I want to PVP, I PVP. When I don't want to PVP, I don't PVP.

    ^^This X 10,000

    Mouth of Sauron - And who is this? Isildur's heir? It takes more to make a King that a broken Elvish blade...

    Aragorn - When i want to PvP ,i PvP,When i Dont want to PvP,i dont PvP

    Aragorn logs out

    Mouth of Sauron joins dungeon group

     

    it is going to be interesting experiment where evey possible way to PvP in any form is removed,only way to PvP is this "when I want" but in reality it is just the opposite "someone else wants to harm you,steal from you or its just an accident or bad luck" 

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Let's internet

  • PrenhoPrenho AracajuPosts: 298Member
    Originally posted by Grixxitt
    Originally posted by Caffynated

    I don't hate OWPvP. I hate poorly implemented OWPvP.

    This x a million. Cool Shadowbane story by the way.

    For those of you who aren't aware, consequences for your actions are starting to get implemented for most of the upcoming sandbox/FFA games. Its just a pity its taken this long

    It basically summarizes what I say about the poor owpvp in WoW and its clones. Waiting for Lineage Eternal, if LE keeps the same rules for clan war and consequences for pk that Lineage does so well, it will be my next game for the next 10 years.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Parasitenoir

    Hey guys - (just to start so no flaming occurs) i will be playing gw2 so I am not a hater.  I just have a more general question.

     

    Why is it that people do not like true open world pvp, where you can gank anyone while they are questing etc.  I enjoyed it in wow while it existed (vanilla-slightly BC), Rift was good, and currently gaming in Tera.

    Is it the annoyance of being ganked and not being able to defend yourself.  Does it provide to much of a challenge.  Or is our generation just lazy and prefer to sit in a town and just que for stuff.

     

    I personally like the OWPVP and being able to mess with someones day while there gathering, questing whatever there doing .

     

    what are peoples thoughts on this?

    Why would i want to be ganked by anyone when i quest?

    I don't play a game for PVP at all. If i want to pvp, i want a e-sport arena. At least it is convenient and fair.

  • ForumPvPForumPvP KingstownPosts: 871Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Why would i want to be ganked by anyone when i quest?

    I don't play a game for PVP at all. If i want to pvp, i want a e-sport arena. At least it is convenient and fair.

    Lets say you get ganked by kobold when you are questing.

    What if other player was controlling that kobold,does it make difference ? NPC which looks like NPC but is not.

     

     

     

    Let's internet

  • GrixxittGrixxitt New Orleans, LAPosts: 543Member
    Originally posted by Prenho
    Originally posted by Grixxitt
    Originally posted by Caffynated

    I don't hate OWPvP. I hate poorly implemented OWPvP.

    This x a million. Cool Shadowbane story by the way.

    For those of you who aren't aware, consequences for your actions are starting to get implemented for most of the upcoming sandbox/FFA games. Its just a pity its taken this long

    It basically summarizes what I say about the poor owpvp in WoW and its clones. Waiting for Lineage Eternal, if LE keeps the same rules for clan war and consequences for pk that Lineage does so well, it will be my next game for the next 10 years.

    Is Lineage Eternal going to be done by Sung? I havent heard about it to be honest but I've kept up with the ArcheAge news, and there will most definately be repercussions for random PKing in that game

    The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)

    -The MMO Forum Community

  • PrenhoPrenho AracajuPosts: 298Member
    Originally posted by Grixxitt
    Originally posted by Prenho
    Originally posted by Grixxitt
    Originally posted by Caffynated

    I don't hate OWPvP. I hate poorly implemented OWPvP.

    This x a million. Cool Shadowbane story by the way.

    For those of you who aren't aware, consequences for your actions are starting to get implemented for most of the upcoming sandbox/FFA games. Its just a pity its taken this long

    It basically summarizes what I say about the poor owpvp in WoW and its clones. Waiting for Lineage Eternal, if LE keeps the same rules for clan war and consequences for pk that Lineage does so well, it will be my next game for the next 10 years.

    Is Lineage Eternal going to be done by Sung? I havent heard about it to be honest but I've kept up with the ArcheAge news, and there will most definately be repercussions for random PKing in that game

    Are you saying Jake Song(the creator of Lineage 1)? No he is working in ArcheAge. But what really matters is if Eternal will keep the same esscence of L1(still the 3rd most played MMO in Korea), if it will, it will one of the next kings in east.

  • TdogSkalTdogSkal Livonia, MIPosts: 1,244Member
    Originally posted by Parasitenoir

    Hey guys - (just to start so no flaming occurs) i will be playing gw2 so I am not a hater.  I just have a more general question.

     

    Why is it that people do not like true open world pvp, where you can gank anyone while they are questing etc.  I enjoyed it in wow while it existed (vanilla-slightly BC), Rift was good, and currently gaming in Tera.

    Is it the annoyance of being ganked and not being able to defend yourself.  Does it provide to much of a challenge.  Or is our generation just lazy and prefer to sit in a town and just que for stuff.

     

    I personally like the OWPVP and being able to mess with someones day while there gathering, questing whatever there doing .

     

    what are peoples thoughts on this?

    Ganking and Gankers have made it so most do not like OWPvP its that simple.  Most people do not like being killed by a higher level who is bored and roaming a lower level zone for easy PvP kills.  Do not tell me this is rare, it is not.  Ganking is common in OWPVP. 

    How did you not already know this answer? Its common sense.

    Sooner or Later

  • PrenhoPrenho AracajuPosts: 298Member
    Originally posted by TdogSkal
    Originally posted by Parasitenoir

    Hey guys - (just to start so no flaming occurs) i will be playing gw2 so I am not a hater.  I just have a more general question.

     

    Why is it that people do not like true open world pvp, where you can gank anyone while they are questing etc.  I enjoyed it in wow while it existed (vanilla-slightly BC), Rift was good, and currently gaming in Tera.

    Is it the annoyance of being ganked and not being able to defend yourself.  Does it provide to much of a challenge.  Or is our generation just lazy and prefer to sit in a town and just que for stuff.

     

    I personally like the OWPVP and being able to mess with someones day while there gathering, questing whatever there doing .

     

    what are peoples thoughts on this?

    Ganking and Gankers have made it so most do not like OWPvP its that simple.  Most people do not like being killed by a higher level who is bored and roaming a lower level zone for easy PvP kills.  Do not tell me this is rare, it is not.  Ganking is common in OWPVP. 

    How did you not already know this answer? Its common sense.

    ganking is common in poor owpvp games(like the shitty owpvp in wow for example), where these is no consequences. a well implemented owpvp game can avoid free low level ganking, because the gankers(pkers) will not want to have to clean tons of karma.

  • GrixxittGrixxitt New Orleans, LAPosts: 543Member
    Originally posted by Prenho
    Originally posted by Grixxitt
    Originally posted by Prenho
    Originally posted by Grixxitt
    Originally posted by Caffynated

    I don't hate OWPvP. I hate poorly implemented OWPvP.

    This x a million. Cool Shadowbane story by the way.

    For those of you who aren't aware, consequences for your actions are starting to get implemented for most of the upcoming sandbox/FFA games. Its just a pity its taken this long

    It basically summarizes what I say about the poor owpvp in WoW and its clones. Waiting for Lineage Eternal, if LE keeps the same rules for clan war and consequences for pk that Lineage does so well, it will be my next game for the next 10 years.

    Is Lineage Eternal going to be done by Sung? I havent heard about it to be honest but I've kept up with the ArcheAge news, and there will most definately be repercussions for random PKing in that game

    Are you saying Jake Song(the creator of Lineage 1)? No he is working in ArcheAge. But what really matters is if Eternal will keep the same esscence of L1(still the 3rd most played MMO in Korea), if it will, it will one of the next kings in east.

    Yup thats right, Sing Sang Song. Played the 2nd one, it had some issues common to the genre but overall a pretty good game.

     

    The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)

    -The MMO Forum Community

  • TdogSkalTdogSkal Livonia, MIPosts: 1,244Member
    Originally posted by Prenho
    Originally posted by TdogSkal
    Originally posted by Parasitenoir

    Hey guys - (just to start so no flaming occurs) i will be playing gw2 so I am not a hater.  I just have a more general question.

     

    Why is it that people do not like true open world pvp, where you can gank anyone while they are questing etc.  I enjoyed it in wow while it existed (vanilla-slightly BC), Rift was good, and currently gaming in Tera.

    Is it the annoyance of being ganked and not being able to defend yourself.  Does it provide to much of a challenge.  Or is our generation just lazy and prefer to sit in a town and just que for stuff.

     

    I personally like the OWPVP and being able to mess with someones day while there gathering, questing whatever there doing .

     

    what are peoples thoughts on this?

    Ganking and Gankers have made it so most do not like OWPvP its that simple.  Most people do not like being killed by a higher level who is bored and roaming a lower level zone for easy PvP kills.  Do not tell me this is rare, it is not.  Ganking is common in OWPVP. 

    How did you not already know this answer? Its common sense.

    ganking is common in poor owpvp games, where these is no consequences.

    Which covers 99.95% of all games we are talking about.

    Sooner or Later

  • gaeanprayergaeanprayer Somewhere Out There, PAPosts: 2,320Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Parasitenoir

    Hey guys - (just to start so no flaming occurs) i will be playing gw2 so I am not a hater.  I just have a more general question.

     

    Why is it that people do not like true open world pvp, where you can gank anyone while they are questing etc.  I enjoyed it in wow while it existed (vanilla-slightly BC), Rift was good, and currently gaming in Tera.

    Is it the annoyance of being ganked and not being able to defend yourself.  Does it provide to much of a challenge.  Or is our generation just lazy and prefer to sit in a town and just que for stuff.

     

    I personally like the OWPVP and being able to mess with someones day while there gathering, questing whatever there doing .

     

    what are peoples thoughts on this?

    I like when people answer their own questions. Saves so much time.

    "Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

  • PrenhoPrenho AracajuPosts: 298Member
    Originally posted by TdogSkal
    Originally posted by Prenho
    Originally posted by TdogSkal
    Originally posted by Parasitenoir

    Hey guys - (just to start so no flaming occurs) i will be playing gw2 so I am not a hater.  I just have a more general question.

     

    Why is it that people do not like true open world pvp, where you can gank anyone while they are questing etc.  I enjoyed it in wow while it existed (vanilla-slightly BC), Rift was good, and currently gaming in Tera.

    Is it the annoyance of being ganked and not being able to defend yourself.  Does it provide to much of a challenge.  Or is our generation just lazy and prefer to sit in a town and just que for stuff.

     

    I personally like the OWPVP and being able to mess with someones day while there gathering, questing whatever there doing .

     

    what are peoples thoughts on this?

    Ganking and Gankers have made it so most do not like OWPvP its that simple.  Most people do not like being killed by a higher level who is bored and roaming a lower level zone for easy PvP kills.  Do not tell me this is rare, it is not.  Ganking is common in OWPVP. 

    How did you not already know this answer? Its common sense.

    ganking is common in poor owpvp games, where these is no consequences.

    Which covers 99.95% of all games we are talking about.

    Lineage is an owpvp game and you rarely see low level ganking. because there are consequences for pk. but in crappy games like wow, where there are no consequences, meaningless gank is free.

  • GrixxittGrixxitt New Orleans, LAPosts: 543Member

    On another note, in OWPVP games you actually have a recourse to deal with griefers, and asshats in general. You just don't have these tools in non-pvp and restricted-pvp games.

    IMO griefing is likely more common in your average themepark than your average FFA sandbox, even more so if repercussions have been put in place.

    The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)

    -The MMO Forum Community

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 17,949Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TdogSkal

    Ganking and Gankers have made it so most do not like OWPvP its that simple.  Most people do not like being killed by a higher level who is bored and roaming a lower level zone for easy PvP kills.  Do not tell me this is rare, it is not.  Ganking is common in OWPVP. 

    How did you not already know this answer? Its common sense.

    I think it have at least as much to do with challenges.

    For me to kill a noob offer no challenge and is boring, for me as a noob to be killed by a vet there is no challenge either since I die whatever I do.

    And the problem with that is that the levelsystem splits up the playerbase into far to many groups to make good challenging PvP possible.

    Ganking is common, but a lot of the gankers are as bored of the game as the people getting ganked all the time.

    PvPmust be challenging, or it will be like running grey PvP content: a snorefeast. That some sociopaths live to gank is not the biggest problem since the rest of us only gets fun PvP against someone with the same level and similar gear.

    Sandboxes usually are leveless and have a lot less focus on gear and lower gap between vets and noobs and that is why they pull it off better even if they can better themselves as well.

    The only thing worse than something being way too hard is something being way too easy.

  • PrenhoPrenho AracajuPosts: 298Member
    Originally posted by Grixxitt

    On another note, in OWPVP games you actually have a recourse to deal with griefers, and asshats in general. You just don't have these tools in non-pvp and restricted-pvp games.

    IMO griefing is likely more common in your average themepark than your average FFA sandbox, even more so if repercussions have been put in place.

    yes themeparks lack consequences, objectives and reason for world pvp, it is just random ganking randoms. Because of this owpvp will never work in themeparks.

  • ForumPvPForumPvP KingstownPosts: 871Member
    Originally posted by Loke666
    Originally posted by TdogSkal

    Ganking and Gankers have made it so most do not like OWPvP its that simple.  Most people do not like being killed by a higher level who is bored and roaming a lower level zone for easy PvP kills.  Do not tell me this is rare, it is not.  Ganking is common in OWPVP. 

    How did you not already know this answer? Its common sense.

    I think it have at least as much to do with challenges.

    For me to kill a noob offer no challenge and is boring, for me as a noob to be killed by a vet there is no challenge either since I die whatever I do.

    And the problem with that is that the levelsystem splits up the playerbase into far to many groups to make good challenging PvP possible.

    Ganking is common, but a lot of the gankers are as bored of the game as the people getting ganked all the time.

    PvPmust be challenging, or it will be like running grey PvP content: a snorefeast. That some sociopaths live to gank is not the biggest problem since the rest of us only gets fun PvP against someone with the same level and similar gear.

    Sandboxes usually are leveless and have a lot less focus on gear and lower gap between vets and noobs and that is why they pull it off better even if they can better themselves as well.

    The only thing worse than something being way too hard is something being way too easy.

    Exactly,like some PvP player starts to make threads about PvE players who only kill lvl1 wildlife.

    Its not interesting,even  PvP ganker knows that,I hope.

     

     

     

    Let's internet

  • ZylaxxZylaxx Erlanger, KYPosts: 2,574Member
    Originally posted by Grixxitt

    On another note, in OWPVP games you actually have a recourse to deal with griefers, and asshats in general. You just don't have these tools in non-pvp and restricted-pvp games.

    IMO griefing is likely more common in your average themepark than your average FFA sandbox, even more so if repercussions have been put in place.

    SO what recourse does a level 5 out minding his own business trying to level and do some gathering when some bored level 80 comes along an decides to ruin his game play.

     

     

    Sorry I subscribe to the Fairness Doctrine and fact that your rights end when they interfere with mine.

    Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online

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  • PrenhoPrenho AracajuPosts: 298Member
    Originally posted by Zylaxx
    Originally posted by Grixxitt

    On another note, in OWPVP games you actually have a recourse to deal with griefers, and asshats in general. You just don't have these tools in non-pvp and restricted-pvp games.

    IMO griefing is likely more common in your average themepark than your average FFA sandbox, even more so if repercussions have been put in place.

    SO what recourse does a level 5 out minding his own business trying to level and do some gathering when some bored level 80 comes along an decides to ruin his game play.

     

     

    Sorry I subscribe to the Fairness Doctrine and fact that your rights end when they interfere with mine.

    It's simple, this lvl 80 player will become pk, he will gain a certain amount of karma and his nick turns to color red and he can't enter cities or talk to npcs, he must kill mobs of his level until he cleans his karma and becomes a normal player again(white nick), but any other player can kill him and loot his items(any player can kill a pk without any problem the killer won't become pk and pk players drop items if they die, so the killer will have a chance to loot the gear or weapon from pk).

     

    As I posted many times the system of Lineage:


    Originally posted by Prenho

    Themepark players never heard about pk and karma? Any sandbox focused in OW pvp-clan wars that wants to be decent use a pk system. Lineage 1 and Lineage 2 show this. Just add a pk system, there are 2 things to consider:

     

    1 - PvP without war:

    If player A wants to kill player B but player B is not at war with him(player B belongs to a clan that is not at war with player A clan, or simply doesn't belong to any clan).

    Player A starts attacking, so his name changes from White(normal state) to purple(flagged state), so 2 things can happen depending if player B will react or not:

    a - Player B doesn't react: if player B doesn't want to react and player A kills him, it means that he killed a player with white name(normal state), so player A will gain karma and his name will change to red color(it means that he became pk, pks are banned from towns, he can't enter cities or talk to npcs, and if someone dies while in pk state, he can lose some(or all) items(as his weapon or armor).

    A pk player needs to kill monters of his gap of level until he cleans his karma and his name becomes white again. Anyone can kill a pk without worrying, pks can be killed and the killer won't become pk, just will have a change to loot some items from pk after killing him.

    A(white name) atks B(white name) = A becomes purple name

    A(purple name) kills B(white name) = A becomes red name(pk) gain karma because he killed a white name.

    b - Player B reacts: player B decides to fight back, so player B will become a purple name too, both players are purple, so this fight will end up and nobody will become pk, because both players are flagged, the winner will just have to wait some time until his name turns white again.

    A(white name) atks B(white name) = A becomes purple name

    B(white name) atks back = B becomes purple name 

    Both palyer are flagged, so it doesn't matter who wins, nobody will become pk because both players opened flag.

    2 - PVP with war

    Player A finds player B and he notices that player B belongs to a clan that is at war with his clan, in this case, the rule above does not work anymore, because both players are at war, so no matter if player A kills player B without player B reacts or not, you can kill him without worrying about becoming pk, the winner will gain pvp point and clan reputation(you can use special clan skills with reputation). So the players make their own alliances and enemies, while a poor faction game, there are only 2(or 3) factions.

     

     

  • NaralNaral Solway, MNPosts: 751Member
    Originally posted by TheScavenger
    I personally really  like open world PvP games. I remember going to Durotar, and tricking people to turn on their PvP and killing them over and over and over. This was a PvP server btw, but the low level zones were "safe" areas...but like EVE, nowhere is safe. It was hilarious the rage I would get in both chat and private messages lol...was so worth it :D

    Behavior exactly like that is why people dislike OWPVP. Some like it, but the vast majority get really tired of this really quickly. The griefing is what kills it, not the actual pvp itself.

  • Pratt2112Pratt2112 Mt marion, NYPosts: 1,535Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by dave6660

    I think the more important question is why do people insist on playing OWPVP games knowing what they're getting into then complain about the ruleset?

    Wouldn't it be silly if I played WoW and complained I have to fight computer controlled monsters.

    That really isn't the "more important question". It's another question entirely.

    I think many people like the idea of open world PvP, where you can fight people anywhere, anytime, instead of it being confined to instanced arenas or "designated world areas".

    The problem, as has been noted by others in this thread, is not with open world PvP itself, but with a type of player it tends to attract  That type is the kind that doesn't enjoy open world PvP itself, they enjoy the freedom it gives them to be an a-hole to people who are far weaker than they are. They aren't interested in the challenge that world PvP can bring, they're only interested in the typical playground bully type of behavior we all witnessed in elementary school. They aren't "wolves". They aren't even "wolf pups". They're more like hyenas - only going after the weak and wounded - encounters they know they can win without any risk to themselves.

    Their idea of "fun PvP" is ganking others where they have the clear advantage.

    Turn the tables, and have someone stronger than them come to take them on and - every time - you'll see one of these three things happen:

    1. They run away.

    2. They force-log out of the game.

    3. You drop them, and they proceed to whine and cry worse than the "carebears" they brag about "pwning".

    I've had #3 happen to me personally several times in Lineage 2, TERA and a couple other MMOs. They're all big-mouthed and tough-talking 'til someone drops them. Then the floodgates are opened and the river of sore-loser tears starts flowing. I've had someone actually report me to a GM for "interrupting their gameplay and harassing them" after I dropped them. They had just spent the previous half hour, at least, ganking the same lowbies over and over in a starting area, and saw nothing wrong with that. I drop them once and they run straight to a GM to cry about it. Pretty hardcore, huh?

    Less than an hour later, when they thought I was gone, they were back at it again.... so I dropped them again. They hurled a bunch of foul-mouthed and rather disgusting insults at me and then logged out.

    The thing is... those are the people that ruin open world PvP for the rest. It's not "the carebears" that many PvPers are so quick to dismiss people as being. For every time a higher level player is able to catch and deal with a lowbie ganker/griefer, there are many more when those types are freely harassing and griefing new players to the point that they say "screw this" and find another game to play. While the gankers/griefers are pounding their chests over how hardcore they are for one-shotting players 20+ levels lower than themselves, the game itself is losing players.

    So when people want to know why open PvP MMOs aren't more popular, don't blame the "carebears". Blame the ass-hats in your midst who are doing their best to drive new players from the game to stroke their own pathetic egos.

    Someday, when PvP'ers:

    1. Learn to understand the difference between real PvP and pointless ganking of someone who has no chance to survive or defend themself

    2. Recognizes the damage it does to the game when new players are run off before they've even had a chance to really experience the game

    3. Actually step up to deal with it instead of condoning it by beating their own chests saying "Hardcore PvP maaaan!"

    ...then maybe you'll start to see open world PvP become more popular.

    'til then, it'll be the same thing every time.

     

     

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