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FFA Full Loot: I still dont see how this makes a game exciting and fun

MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,257Member Uncommon
Iam trying, and I am trying, no matter what, I just cant find anything positive out of such a design.
I was told, that FFA/FL is suppose to be exciting and fun, but even with a open mind to the concept, I still dont get this "Rush" that people speak of, that is so darn fun.

This concept of FFA/FL imo needs to be banished from all future MMO titles.

Its like basically giving INTERNET PEOPLE, the keys to ruin the INTERNET for everybody.
Imagine if this forum ran like that. No mods, just allow people to post, and say whatever the hell they want. You really believe this site would still be civil? You would basically be opening the doors for the forum to turn into a hell house of internet troll. I call it, "Controll".

this is terrible gameplay design, and I want to see it go.

Look at Guild Wars 2 for moment. the main appeal about GW2's PvE events, is that people play together and help each other out.

But in a FFA/FL environment, this isnt the case, because most of the time NOBODY CAN TRUST EACH OTHER, other than guild members. If I only wanted to play with Guild Members, well I could also do that in a Non-FFA/FL environment.
This is basically counterproductive when compared to what people here seem to be so excited over the PvE in GW2 having people work together instead of against each other.

Dont get me wrong, PvP is fun, but FFA/FL is like a lack of control of the internet community. Again like a forum, without mods.
PvP also needs control in place. This is why Factions are so popular in MMOs now days. Because it grants players a larger audience of players outside of Guilds, that they can trust to play along side, instead of playing minute to minute looking over your back for gank squads trying to steal all your hard earned work you grinded for.

terrible design.
FFA/FL simply needs to go.

Lets be real here,,, even in sandbox MMO, what percentage of the game's community are even PvPers/Red-Names compared to the number of players who arent?

seems like most people have more interesting activities to do other than ganking people all the time.

so again, whats the point of FFA/FL in the future of MMOs?
Its such a thing of the past, and really needs to just go.

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Comments

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 20,008Member Uncommon

    First off, I'm not a fan of unrestricted FFA PVP and definitely against full loot without limitations and provisos.

    Hence I enjoyed EVE and the way it let me control the amount of risk I was willing to take, or even Shadowbane with its system of protecting your worn gear but making anything in your pack including your gold fair game on death.

    I never played DF or MO because the risk of loss is too great, and the odds favor attackers too greatly, leaving it impossible to really control my risk and was no interest to me.

    In the case of EVE, the rush came from there being something really on the line to win or lose which some players don't enjoy, but to me it makes MMORPG's more realistic.  One reason I'm not rushing out to play GW2 is there's really nothing to fight for IMO, not even character progression so I don't see the point.  I don't PVP "for fun", only for profit and power.

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • clumsytoes44clumsytoes44 portland, ORPosts: 463Member
    Although i'm not a big fan of the FFA/FL system, I think it should be around for the people that enjoy it. So in a sense I agree, and disagree with you.
  • ThorbrandThorbrand West Palm Beach, FLPosts: 1,198Member
    FFA Full Loot isn't the problem it is the games that have the mechanics wrong. Some games got it right but most Sandbox games end up just catered to zerg ganking and the rest of the game is uesless. It have to be balanced like everything else but today's developers just can get it right any longer.
  • Ambros123Ambros123 Neverneverland, TNPosts: 877Member

    It's about the risk rush.  EVE has where your ship is lost that makes a fight that much more exciting as adreniline is higher as you know if you lose it's more than just losing a fight.  But this kind of system evolves around a highly player crafting system as that is where you get your gear from. 

    And actually I think a full loot system actually encourages more teamwork and commradery as people will band for a common goal.

  • AkulasAkulas GoldcoastPosts: 1,619Member Uncommon
    Back in the UO days it was fun and exciting because it was done right back then. I can expand on that if required.

    This isn't a signature, you just think it is.

  • GamerUntouchGamerUntouch smithville ON, ONPosts: 488Member

    It's the risk and rush.

     

    If you die and don't lose anything, it doesn't matter, but if you're about to die and have the chance of losing your gear there's adreneline.

  • jmcdermottukjmcdermottuk LiverpoolPosts: 976Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Thorbrand
    FFA Full Loot isn't the problem it is the games that have the mechanics wrong. Some games got it right but most Sandbox games end up just catered to zerg ganking and the rest of the game is uesless. It have to be balanced like everything else but today's developers just can get it right any longer.

    Exactly right. It's the lack of checks and balances that makes FFA FL a problem. Without consequences these types of games only reinforce or encourage sociopathic behaviour.

    For a list of sociopathic behaviour look at the link and you'll be surprised how it fits with many FFA FL "hardcore" players arguments.

    http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper LondonPosts: 2,751Member

    Iam(sic) trying, and I am trying, no matter what, I just cant find anything positive out of such a thread.

     

    So your basic premise is that because you don't "get it" it should be banished from the mmo genre henceforth? This has to be a troll thread.

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,257Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by GamerUntouch

    It's the risk and rush.

     

    If you die and don't lose anything, it doesn't matter, but if you're about to die and have the chance of losing your gear there's adreneline.

    I been in the situation many times where I was being attacked or chased down by gankers that attack me while gathering/crafting/PvE.

    Not once did I have a positive feel to the situation. Only Anger, since there was no way to avoid them, and nothing I could do about it. All my work I grinded for was gone.

    Nothing to be excited about. I see no fun in this. You and others keep mentioning this "Rush of Adrenaline"
    but still dont see the joy and fun from this. Rush or not, I dont see how this can be fun. Because it simply isnt, unless you have some kind of mental disorder were you feel joy and happiness from your own pain and suffering.
    thats the only way I could see something positive out of this FFA/FL rush you speak of.

    image

  • Muerte_XMuerte_X ventura, CAPosts: 104Member
    No mechanic should be banished from the genere just because you don't like it. I'm actually partial to an inventory loot, not full loot system in sandbox games. That is simply my opinion, and so I do not wish that structure on every game developed. Variety in the MMO market should never be dicouraged. Simply play the games you want to play and don't worry about the others :)

    Often lurking, rarely posting

  • Dogmadude360Dogmadude360 Cleveland, TXPosts: 19Member

    Why can't people who dislike Free for all pvp, and full loot, just stop talking about it?

    You don't like it, that's fine, stop saying it should be gotten rid of, it isn't like all games are free for all with full loot. Hell, most games aren't. There are however a lot of people who like this, not just griefers, but people who want to craft, pve, and do dungeon delving with more risk. Why do you have to say it should go if some of us like it? We'll play our niche games, you play your games, and let it be at that. To continue down a path that says either FFA/FL or Themeparks, or whatever type of game should be gotten rid of, is pure arrogance and ignorance.

    Don't walk the same road as the closed minded, respect differences.

  • ForumPvPForumPvP KingstownPosts: 871Member

    FFA Full Loot  simulator v1.0

    1.MeGa_TuRbO swings his cursed morningstar ,headshot! critical hit! 999 damage

    2.MeGa_TuRbO searches your body,plate mail +1

    3.MeGa_TuRbO starts to undress you, it takes 10 minutes (real time) to undress that kind of armor

    and at time ,many things can happen.  if he even starts that process because watching that bar filling is not fun either and waiting ,whos coming to give him a lesson,and if you were carrying cash for example,well robbers need to eat too.

     

     

    Bag space and carrying capacity ,i cant think full loot on WoW  /-likes ,since how in the heck someone can even carry that kind of amount of stuff,if someone carries that amount of stuff he should be moving with 0.1% speed and cant fight back,so easy to get items back when robbed.

     

     

     

     

    Let's internet

  • GrunchGrunch yuma, AZPosts: 493Member
    Originally posted by MMOExposed
    Originally posted by GamerUntouch

    It's the risk and rush.

     

    If you die and don't lose anything, it doesn't matter, but if you're about to die and have the chance of losing your gear there's adreneline.

    I been in the situation many times where I was being attacked or chased down by gankers that attack me while gathering/crafting/PvE.

    Not once did I have a positive feel to the situation. Only Anger, since there was no way to avoid them, and nothing I could do about it. All my work I grinded for was gone.

    Nothing to be excited about. I see no fun in this. You and others keep mentioning this "Rush of Adrenaline"
    but still dont see the joy and fun from this. Rush or not, I dont see how this can be fun. Because it simply isnt, unless you have some kind of mental disorder were you feel joy and happiness from your own pain and suffering.
    thats the only way I could see something positive out of this FFA/FL rush you speak of.

    Lol. There is always something you can do to prvent being ganked. You just need to step outside the WoW box and think about it.

    "I'm sorry but your mmo has been diagnosed with EA and only has X number of days to live."

  • BrixonBrixon Myrtle Beach, SCPosts: 259Member
    I don't have a problem with FFA/FL games, but then I don't play them either. If people like it, then let them have a place to get that fix. The only problem I have with FFA/FL is that it seems that most developers seem to think that it has to be part of any sandbox style game. I thought SWG had a good system for open pvp with the overt/covert rebel and imperial alignments.
  • rottNrottN OdensePosts: 161Member
    Originally posted by Grunch
    Originally posted by MMOExposed
    Originally posted by GamerUntouch

    It's the risk and rush.

     

    If you die and don't lose anything, it doesn't matter, but if you're about to die and have the chance of losing your gear there's adreneline.

    I been in the situation many times where I was being attacked or chased down by gankers that attack me while gathering/crafting/PvE.

    Not once did I have a positive feel to the situation. Only Anger, since there was no way to avoid them, and nothing I could do about it. All my work I grinded for was gone.

    Nothing to be excited about. I see no fun in this. You and others keep mentioning this "Rush of Adrenaline"
    but still dont see the joy and fun from this. Rush or not, I dont see how this can be fun. Because it simply isnt, unless you have some kind of mental disorder were you feel joy and happiness from your own pain and suffering.
    thats the only way I could see something positive out of this FFA/FL rush you speak of.

    Lol. There is always something you can do to prvent being ganked. You just need to step outside the WoW box and think about it.

    haha +1

     

  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common

    Why people like it is because it gives some players the so called "gambler's rush". Not everyone get it, but some do. Some people need to "risk it" in order to enjoy it. Others don't feel it in a video game no matter how high the penalty.

    For example, I don't get the gambler's rush when I play a games. Personally I think it is a cheap way to boost an otherwise boring game; look at Blackjack - it is not nearly as fun without the bets as with them.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXPosts: 5,348Member

    despite me being the biggest Darkfall fanboi on MMORPG.com I dont like FFA except during warfare between clans.

    Running around punking people who really arent intrested in playing with you is rather sad. However if both sides are up for some competition then that is a different story.

    Correlation does not imply causation

  • CeleustaCeleusta RomePosts: 26Member Uncommon

    I'll always play in those PVP environments when they're offered and always have. For me, having open PVP in a game just adds another dynamic to the gameworld. It makes you pay attention to your surroundings. An otherwise dull expedition to gather materials could very well lead to a heroic battle for survival. That spontaneous element keeps the games fresh for me. When the worlds are familiar, the characters are looking tired and the conventions are thoroughly traversed, an unexpected PVP encounter will still give me that old feeling of excitement.

    However, I think your sentiment is one that many of today's gamers feel. I think that the best solution is to have more appropriate consequences for PKing. Whether it is player set bounties, banishment from associated towns, stacking XP decrease on a PK's death or other penalty, there needs to be something that a PK risks when he ganks the guy hauling his ore back from the mine.

  • TheocritusTheocritus Gary, INPosts: 3,758Member Uncommon
          It only makes it fun for those who enjoy ruining other players gaming.....In general it caters to people that most of us would consider jerks.
  • Sirr0Sirr0 East Providence, RIPosts: 55Member

    It's one of those ideas I like but in practice felt was never very good.  Darkfall when I played had two situations, you encounter people in the wild and kill them only to get basically the easiest loot you can find or you get ganked by a roaming guild with epic everything. 

    To me it's just a time sink and not the fun kind, there is something very frustrating about logging out from a session and losing and not really gaining.  The only game i've ever really didn't mind this was Minecraft and that's probably because we ran the server so pvp was controlled in some ways.

    If you are a fan of FFAFL I actually recommend having a group of friends form a clan wars type server for MC, you can even run  a dedicated server and a client on the same machine so it's not bad.   Plenty of mods out there too for variety and overall very similar experience but you get to make up your own rules and likely won't deal with BS.

  • theAsnatheAsna AsnatownPosts: 321Member

     

    When considering the mainstream titles the OP may be right with the assumption that "FFA Full Loot" doesn't make much sense.

     

    On the other hand. I can accept "FFA Full Loot" in small niche games. But some conditions need to be met.

    1) If a player kills another player's character in some public "safe" area (e.g. a town, a village, etc.) I expect that local law enforcment NPCs / Players will act and punish the offender (e.g. punishing the offender immediately or taking the offender as captive and perform a public trial + execution later).

    2) If a player kills another player's character in some other area and if some witnesses survived then I expect that word will spread and law enforcement NPCs / Players / Bounty Hunters will hunt down that player for trial and an eventual execution.

    3) If it's a permadeath setting then "FFA Full Loot" makes sense to salvage some equipment. Again you can only handle this in small scale multiplayer games where people know each other (e.g. Nevewinter Nights persistent worlds, etc.).

    4) A lot of players still crave for PvP. The game should provide non-lethal combat / competitions for this purpose.

    5) Scavenging a corpse should take some considerable time (i.e. the corpse may need to be searched and undressed to get hold of certain items). Just stepping near it, having a loot window pop up to immediately click-taking the equipment is a no go.

  • StonesDKStonesDK SomewherePosts: 1,805Member
    Originally posted by MMOExposed


    This concept of FFA/FL imo needs to be banished from all future MMO titles.
     

    I know just where you are coming from.

    I hate raids and gear grinds and think these things should be removed from all future MMO titles. If I don't like these things, they should not exist for anybody to enjoy period.

     

    I'm just that reasonable.. like yourself

  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAPosts: 4,479Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by GamerUntouch

    It's the risk and rush.

     

    If you die and don't lose anything, it doesn't matter, but if you're about to die and have the chance of losing your gear there's adreneline.

    Well, it's a video game and doesn't have real risk/lose.   If you ever had real life risk of life situations, a video game will never give that feel to you. 

  • ReklawReklaw Am.Posts: 6,478Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by clumsytoes44
    Although i'm not a big fan of the FFA/FL system, I think it should be around for the people that enjoy it. So in a sense I agree, and disagree with you.

     Same here, as said in a similar topic about pvp I don't mind it aslong as it's optional. But then again if it's optional most pvp'rs will notice how little intrest there actually is in FFA/OWPVP and will start to complain that pvp s***s.

  • xenogiasxenogias warsaw, INPosts: 1,926Member

    You dont have to understand it. Its not for everyone. But some of us do like it. Its ok though, not everyone has to like every game or even every feature of a game. To call it bad design is just silly though. If we called everything bad design that somone may not like, and ask that it be removed we simply wouldnt have video games. I dont care for RTS. Anypart of it. So I guess The idea of RTS is bad design and should be done away with. Joe next door doesnt like FPS. Thinks they are to violent. So lets get rid of FPS's. The list goes on and on.

     

    TLDR: Dont be an idiot. Just because you dont like something doesnt make it bad design. Its really OK that people like diffrent things.

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