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is GW2 getting a free pass for problems.

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  • gaeanprayergaeanprayer Somewhere Out There, PAPosts: 2,320Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by hardicon

     

    1.  no open world pvp-- alot of previous games have gotten flamed pretty hard but gw2 seems to get a free pass.

    2.  their stress test yesterday being kind of poor-- this close to release and a bad stress test.  other games this would generate lots of negativity, barely any mention for gw2.

    3.  pve encounters being a zergfest--  I remember when rift was coming out and they had this new feature called rifts that seemed pretty revolutionary at the time, alot of people got down on rift about how they were all zergfests and nothing really new but apparantly gw2 has alot of these types of quests and so many people are calling this the new breed of mmo where questing is fun.

     

    1) You assume most people consider lack of open-world PvP an issue. Most do not. Most consider that a plus. That's a problem of the most vocal minority. That said, they aren't exactly getting a free pass about it as that same vocal minority seems to enjoy making a new thread about it every 2 seconds.

    2) It's a stress test. It's not supposed to go swell. Stress tests are literally putting stress on the servers, as if taking a plastic ruler and bending it to see how far it can arch before it snaps. Most people understand this, those that don't need to play more MMOs.

    3) PvE encounters are generally not a zergfest. You're not seeing most people complain about it because it's only those who don't play that are saying they are. Those who do play know that even in a huge mass of people and enemies, it's still very easy to get aggro and die if you just faceroll your keyboard.

     

    GW2 isn't getting a free pass, it's just a good game.

    "Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

  • CromicaCromica West Fargo, NDPosts: 657Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by hardicon

    Now im not trying to piss in anyone cheerios or anything.  I am sure GW2 will be/is a  great game that many people are going to enjoy.  I wont be but the only reason really for that is I am a bit sick of fantasy games for now.  I dont know much about GW2 so what I am about to say maybe incorrect in some cases but it seems to me people are giving GW2 a free pass for known problems that they have really blasted previous games for.  Maybe people are a bit blinded to this game.

     

    some samples that I have read about.

     

    1.  no open world pvp-- alot of previous games have gotten flamed pretty hard but gw2 seems to get a free pass.

    It has it just not in the traditional sense.  People are just mad they cant kill low level players

     

    2.  their stress test yesterday being kind of poor-- this close to release and a bad stress test.  other games this would generate lots of negativity, barely any mention for gw2. With other games tests = demos. GW2 actually changes things and TESTS them.

    3.  pve encounters being a zergfest--  I remember when rift was coming out and they had this new feature called rifts that seemed pretty revolutionary at the time, alot of people got down on rift about how they were all zergfests and nothing really new but apparantly gw2 has alot of these types of quests and so many people are calling this the new breed of mmo where questing is fun.

    Of course starter zones are zergfests, that is just how it works in every game.

     

    I am sure there are plenty of others if i bothered to scour the forums but I do kind of want to know why gw2 is getting a free pass on these issues that other games didnt.  is the entire package just that good and I dont see it because I havent played it or is it a case of people got them blinders on and not seeing whats underneath because of the shiny coat.  

    I have played every mmo since vanilla wow has been released and this is by far the best one yet IMO.

     

    regardless, I hope everyone has fun playing it and the game is everything they wanted it to be but it seems to me some people are going in with some pretty unrealistic expectations kind of like swtor, only time will truly tell though.

     My expectations have already been surpased.

     

  • ariboersmaariboersma Yankton, SDPosts: 1,802Member
    Originally posted by gelraen

    From my point of view, #1 is a feature, not a problem. 

    #2 -- from what I observed, each stress test that they did seemed to be targeted at some aspect of the game which was suddenly bugged to hell for the stress test, where the problem did not exist in any of the betas before it.  For example, the lag and connectivity issues in one stress test had never happened to such a scale, but then they appeared and were suddenly fixed at the end of the test.  This most recent time, suddenly there were huge teleportation bugs shooting people across the map, then suddenly those issues were fixed.

    My guess is that they are testing the reaction speed and the work pipeline of their live teams, at handling major game-breaking issues with live-updates.  And we are the guinea pigs :)    That's just my opinion though.

    #3 - I didn't find the majority of the DEs to be like that -- there I found a lot of spontaneous cooperation which I really liked.  On the other hand, I recently did the shadow behemoth fight in the stress test, and that felt like a zerg.  Or maybe it just felt like everyone had no idea what to do and therefore they were running around a little bit like headless chickens.  This I chalk up to the fact that it seemed pretty difficult to understand where the boss could be targeted... seemed like it needed to tuning that event.

    well said and you hit the nail on the head with the stree test issue.

    image

  • AsboAsbo ManchesterPosts: 796Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by hardicon

    Now im not trying to piss in anyone cheerios or anything.  I am sure GW2 will be/is a  great game that many people are going to enjoy.  I wont be but the only reason really for that is I am a bit sick of fantasy games for now.  I dont know much about GW2 so what I am about to say maybe incorrect in some cases but it seems to me people are giving GW2 a free pass for known problems that they have really blasted previous games for.  Maybe people are a bit blinded to this game.

     

    some samples that I have read about.

     

    1.  no open world pvp-- alot of previous games have gotten flamed pretty hard but gw2 seems to get a free pass.

     

    2.  their stress test yesterday being kind of poor-- this close to release and a bad stress test.  other games this would generate lots of negativity, barely any mention for gw2.

    3.  pve encounters being a zergfest--  I remember when rift was coming out and they had this new feature called rifts that seemed pretty revolutionary at the time, alot of people got down on rift about how they were all zergfests and nothing really new but apparantly gw2 has alot of these types of quests and so many people are calling this the new breed of mmo where questing is fun.

     

    I am sure there are plenty of others if i bothered to scour the forums but I do kind of want to know why gw2 is getting a free pass on these issues that other games didnt.  is the entire package just that good and I dont see it because I havent played it or is it a case of people got them blinders on and not seeing whats underneath because of the shiny coat.

     

    regardless, I hope everyone has fun playing it and the game is everything they wanted it to be but it seems to me some people are going in with some pretty unrealistic expectations kind of like swtor, only time will truly tell though.

    Not really sure it makes a blind bit of difference to you as it appears you aint gonna be playing it anyways so why are you trying to get brownie points about something which appears not to be of interest to you? As for not wanting to piss in people Cheerios think you managing pretty well IMO. Everyone with half a brain knows there was not going to be open PvP but WvW and as I'm not a massive PVP'er having played the last BWE soley in WvW and had a real blast I see no need for open world PvP, if you need it that much go play WoW or sumit else.

    Bandit

    Asbo

  • FelixMajorFelixMajor London, ONPosts: 576Member
    Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Scallop potatos.

    Originally posted by Arskaaa
    "when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".

  • MithrandolirMithrandolir The Deep Woods, NJPosts: 1,698Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by LethalJaxx

    1. games don't get flamed for not having open world PvP, they get flamed because the PvP elements they do have are poorly implemented. GW2's PvP is fun, meaningful, and well delivered

    2. Since all other BWE's and tests were very smooth, it's easy enough to asume it'll be fixed (and maybe it has been, i wasn't able to join the evening test)

    3. DE's are not a tacked on feature as in Rift. They are the core and make the world come alive. They allow you to roam freely and run into unexpected encounters, lead you to paths you otherwise wouldn't have known about and tell a comprehensive story. They are a vast improvement to ?! questing, even if the odd one out reverts into a zerg. 

     

    couldn't say it any better, so I will just quote the above. Thanks!

     

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,905Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by hardicon

    2.  their stress test yesterday being kind of poor-- this close to release and a bad stress test.  other games this would generate lots of negativity, barely any mention for gw2.

    I'm not sure about those other things, but you're right about this. Any problems close to launch are usually met with tons of posts all containing the word "fail". All we've seen on it was one thread. They had some nasty game-breaking bugs from the sound of it.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • tank017tank017 Glendale, CAPosts: 2,192Member
    There are people here that have been blinded by their own excitement and hype.I've havent seen such rabid fanboyism before.
  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,854Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by xposeidon
    Originally posted by otacu
    Originally posted by RebelScum99
    WvWvW is NOT an improvement over open world PvP.  Don't delude yourselves.  

    It is an improvement.

    Don't delude yourselves.

    Why don't you share your opinions on why is not an improvement?

    It's for some people but not for others.

    Delude yourselves.

     

    Yep and to me it's an improvement because it gives both sides what they want.

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,942Member Uncommon
    Ye don't quite know where this free pass thing has came from.

    1) it's a design choice the majority are happy with.

    2). I can understand if the game performance is in doubt, but by all accounts it isn't, therefore the stress test was just that, I.e it's not a stress test if you don't push beyond tolerances.

    3. It was a zergfest because both the community and group tactics have not started to evolve yet- not to mention hundreds of thousands of players who are just having casual fun experimenting with builds.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • atticusbcatticusbc Posts: 1,068Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by xposeidon
    Originally posted by otacu
    Originally posted by RebelScum99
    WvWvW is NOT an improvement over open world PvP.  Don't delude yourselves.  

    It is an improvement.

    Don't delude yourselves.

    Why don't you share your opinions on why is not an improvement?

    It's for some people but not for others.

    Delude yourselves.

    DELUDE OURSELVES?! BUT YOU'RE MORPHEUS!!!!

  • LakytusLakytus Winnipeg, MBPosts: 59Member

    Lack of open world PVP is the main reason I do like this game.  Open PVP consists of griefing and zerging.  I do not understand why it is fun to have someone 20 levels higher than you come kill you with no way to stop it.  A separate area such as the one this game has is essentially the same thing, however you accept any risk involved since you are willingly participating in it.

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common
    Originally posted by hardicon

    2.  their stress test yesterday being kind of poor-- this close to release and a bad stress test.  other games this would generate lots of negativity, barely any mention for gw2.

    where did you get that impression? 

     

    i had no issues in yesterdays stress test - many others saw *improvement*

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/361692/Guild-Wars-2-Stress-Test-Again-910PM-10PM-82212.html

     

     

     

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,942Member Uncommon
    Aelious, gw2 is not an open world pvp game, just like eve is not a themepark, and FIFA is not a fps as well as a football game. Design choices and customer choices.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • otacuotacu BolzanoPosts: 547Member
    Originally posted by Zylaxx
    Originally posted by otacu
    Originally posted by RebelScum99
    WvWvW is NOT an improvement over open world PvP.  Don't delude yourselves.  

    It is an improvement.

    Don't delude yourselves.

    DAoC style RvR is considered the greatest PvP game of all time by many people so yes WvW is a drastic improvement over world PvP.

     

    If world Pvp was so popular then why is dead in WoW or why isnt MO and DF this burdgeoning hub of activity instead of the pit of dispairs that they are.  Face it World PvP is stupid and idiotic and consists of nothing more then ganking lowbies.

    +1

     

  • CultOfXtcCultOfXtc nottinghamPosts: 378Member
    Originally posted by tank017
    There are people here that have been blinded by their own excitement and hype.I've havent seen such rabid fanboyism before.

    Totally agree.  GW2 is great but not...

    THE SECRET WORLD - PAY ONCE PLAY FOREVER - Give it a go!

    http://www.thesecretworld.com/buy/

    OR PM ME FOR A BUDDY KEY (need your email address).

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,854Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    Aelious, gw2 is not an open world pvp game, just like eve is not a themepark, and FIFA is not a fps as well as a football game. Design choices and customer choices.

    I didn't say it was.

  • GamerUntouchGamerUntouch smithville ON, ONPosts: 488Member

    Rifts weren't denoted as bad because of the zerg.

     

    They were denoted as bad because they were TERRIBLY simple and gave awful rewards.

    They did NOT feel like they were part of the world, every rift except maybe 3 or 4 were "kill X with a time limit".

     

    You find more variety with DEs in 3 levels than the entirety of RIFT.

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,942Member Uncommon
    Put it this way open world pvp can be forced on people who don't want to be ganked. That not what 'both' wants, it's what you want, there is a difference if 1 party does not want it. Now if you coul flag yourself immune from gambling- that's a different story- now can you guess why that won't work?

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,942Member Uncommon
    Ganking^^

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • megera23megera23 BurgasPosts: 239Member

    No we're not cutting GW2 any slack, however, if there's anything major you wont find it being discussed here, but on the official forums. The "issues" you mentioned are very subjective and don't affect a very large part of the playerbase. When there's an actual issue (for example the toned down difficulty in BWE3) the complaining starts.

     

    1) Completely subjective. WvW seems to be a pretty good replacement for most people except for a very specific minority. Also, most of us understand that OWPvP in the sense that L2 for example did it is completely against Arenanet's philosophy and won't work well with the rest of the game. WvW also fixes issues with factions splitting the playerbase and disbalance in population which are the main issues that kill OWPvP in other games.

    2) All stress tests between all BWEs have been poor. Then the next BWE comes and everything works very well. Arenanet put those warnings about performance, testing and bugs on the launcher for a purpose. Even with all the issues, there was nothing gamebreaking and we've already seen that all major components on the game work, even if some do need tweaking. We've also seen Arenanet listening to feedback on the forums and taking measures/fixing bugs in very short time spans. This is why no one makes a big deal out of it.

    3) While the occasional zerg existed, following it is entirely the player's choice and the more people play, the more the crowd disperses. Also there's the difficulty scaling. As with all things some events need some fine tuning, but some of the most challenging experiences I've had in PvE happened when there were a ton of people around me and we were overrun by mobs. I also experienced some of the same events again with smaller groups and they weren't nearly as challenging.

     

    The problem with Rift wasn't the zergs, or at least not entirely. It streamed from the lack of variety with rifts, the poor rewards, the lack of difficulty scaling, and invasions clashing with the general gameplay of the game - questing. I can't count the times I was annoyed by an invasion, because I simply wanted to work on my quests. Those were issues I came across in the beta and during the first few months when I played the game. No idea if anything changed later on.

  • ictownictown iowa city, IAPosts: 123Member
    Originally posted by FrodoFragins
    B2P lowers expectations greatly.  It's a whole different animal.  I also believe them when they say they will monitor what players want.

    So, basically you're implying I shouldn't expect much from playing Mass Effect series, Bioshock, Max Payne, heck even Madden 2013 since its B2P, hence you're imply B2P games are beneath P2P games and I shouldn't expect much from B2P games?

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by hardicon

    2.  their stress test yesterday being kind of poor-- this close to release and a bad stress test.  other games this would generate lots of negativity, barely any mention for gw2.

    I'm not sure about those other things, but you're right about this. Any problems close to launch are usually met with tons of posts all containing the word "fail". All we've seen on it was one thread. They had some nasty game-breaking bugs from the sound of it.

     In all fairness though most have been fixed. I tried testing everything that was an issue in the stress test the last time in the one they had last night.

    That doesn't change the fact that it was ridiculous the way some responded in that thread or in general. I wouldn't go as far as the OP and say the game is getting a free pass. Just has a large amount of people really excited about the game and your usual group running around with rose colored glasses. Well...that and those that were busy trolling and bashing other game forums are spending the bulk of their time here now since the game is so close to launching.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • IamAproposIamApropos San Antonio, TXPosts: 173Member

    how I save myself from buying bad games at launch is test them and study them quite severely.

    In the recent releases I've done so with TERA and TSW and they actually have "Problems" with the game that make countless people not interested in playing the game.   I'm not talking Lack of mechanics or design features that some want in the game.  I'm talking Major things that most people can't stand such as Choppy stop n go combat or horrible character animations.

     

    These are PROBLEMS with in the game that make alot of people unable to tolerate playing them.

    Now you listed some things that you said were "problems" and the only valid one that could be considered a problem is stress test issues.... I can say from my test it ran smoother and better then any game in a beta within the last 10 years.

     

    Major issues with the game?  Well they had a PROBLEM where actions that teleport characters on the battle field were actually not working, THAT is a problem.

     

    lack of OW Pvp isn't a problem its a design choice and the majority would walk away from GW2 if it impliemented OW PVP.

     

    Are we giving GW2 a free pass?  Nope, I've gone thru the game with a fine tooth comb and have no found any glaring issues with it excluding the sPvP not allowing Premades to stay on the same team apart from tourneys.  That too is a design choice not a "problem"

     

    To be blunt this game has not presented many "Problems", mainly people have issues because they don't want a Themepark or are burned out on Fantasy and or blame the game for not knowing what they really want but don't realize this isn't their type of game.

     

    Guild Wars 2 isn't perfect but so far its better then anything that has been released in 15 years, plain and simple.

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  • hardiconhardicon jackson, MSPosts: 358Member

    well first of all I for one was not stating my opinion on any of these things.  I have no opinion on any of them because I havent seen them in action.

     

    I for one dont like open world pvp, hell I dont like pvp generally at all because its not fun, its generally just some little b**ch running in circles hitting the 1 key exploiting bad game mechanics to not be hit as one of our columnists alluded to earlier this week.

    I wasnt saying i agree with any of these assessments of the game or not just that I thought the bad parts were being overlooked in this game where in past games some of these points were talked about pretty negatively for other games.  I was just wondering if maybe the entire presentation of the game was enough that these issues or nonissues depending on who you are just didnt matter.  maybe some other posts i read were correct though that gw2 is gonna have one of the worst communities ever in a game judging by some of these responces.  guess time will tell on this also, i think it would be awesome of gw2 named one of their area the barrens, seems there is gonna be alot of barrens type chat in this game.

     

This discussion has been closed.