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Champions Online: Champions Online Review

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Comments

  • Originally posted by Vrmithrax 
    This is, in fact, the second review of Champions I've read here on MMORPG, the first being a "just launched" first impression piece.  If you had read this article, instead of sifting through it and only seeming to find the negative things the author mentioned (hypocritical much?), you might have noticed that there were a handful of kudos for different parts of the game system as a whole. 

     

    I did read the whole article, impartial was a bad choice of words. Perspective is more accurate. I was trying to justify the score it was given, because far more bad points than good were mentioned. Most of the readers agreeing with the article have played the game, and know all the points, but that isn't who a review is written for.

    I would really like to know which game has been released that is all the things people are hoping for, or even close. Seriously, I would love to play a game better than Champions. Have come to accept that games aren't perfect. I haven't found an FPS better than Duke Nukem. 99% of game companies are pushed to a fast finish by their producers like Holywood movies.

    I have tried a bunch of other MMORPGs, and found none close to CoX/Co or WoW level.

    What game has better teaming? CoX you could set a mission so eveyone knows where it is, and apparently get an xp bonus for finishing, if it was a door. WoW you could know the status and quests your party members were on. But no XP for helping unless you kill stuff. In CO if one of your team mates talked to an NPC for a quest that can finish that part for you. I found teaming in CO faster than solo. And XP for helping team mates complete missions has been promised. Sidekicking may need some work, but being able to sidekick more than one person is a great advance.

    CoX when it started had tons less costume options, no capes, no respec at all, fewer types of quests, all the buildings looked the same inside, can't recall whether it was the beta, but you only could go one stop at a time on the train.

    The 2 trains for sure never stopped at the same place.

    People are complaining that teamng isn't necessary, but in CoX and WoW people were complaining about forced teaming, and those games were modified so you don't need to team for most of the content, enough to get to max level solo. I find if you team in CO it's more challenging, with henchmen running for help. How many raids did WoW start with?

    I think the next level mmo shoudl have voice capabilities, so that I can talk into my mic and have the npcs talk back. Definatly possible  with modern lechnology, but I'm not holding my breath.

    Cryptic has it eye on the good stuff in WoW and other games, and has it's own way of making playing more fun in general.

    About the 200 man guild thing, how often does that happen? I've never seen it, seriously curious. I guess you all get in the same area . . . and then look at your guild chat? I woudl think the befefits of having any player have the option of joining your guild without th worry of being on a different server would outweigh the inconvinience of not being able to get eveyone in one screen shot that one time a year when everyone is actually online at the same time. Would being able to have an unlimited number of people (well, high limit) in your Super Team base do the trick there?

    Please let me knwo what game has better teaming, good pvp, is well balanced, and looks and performs well.

    Seriously, I haven't found any.

     

  • Babylon9000Babylon9000 Regina, SKPosts: 88Member
    Originally posted by evgen88

    Originally posted by Vrmithrax 
    This is, in fact, the second review of Champions I've read here on MMORPG, the first being a "just launched" first impression piece.  If you had read this article, instead of sifting through it and only seeming to find the negative things the author mentioned (hypocritical much?), you might have noticed that there were a handful of kudos for different parts of the game system as a whole. 

     

    I did read the whole article, impartial was a bad choice of words. Perspective is more accurate. I was trying to justify the score it was given, because far more bad points than good were mentioned. Most of the readers agreeing with the article have played the game, and know all the points, but that isn't who a review is written for.

    I would really like to know which game has been released that is all the things people are hoping for, or even close. Seriously, I would love to play a game better than Champions. Have come to accept that games aren't perfect. I haven't found an FPS better than Duke Nukem. 99% of game companies are pushed to a fast finish by their producers like Holywood movies.

    I have tried a bunch of other MMORPGs, and found none close to CoX/Co or WoW level.

    What game has better teaming? CoX you could set a mission so eveyone knows where it is, and apparently get an xp bonus for finishing, if it was a door. WoW you could know the status and quests your party members were on. But no XP for helping unless you kill stuff. In CO if one of your team mates talked to an NPC for a quest that can finish that part for you. I found teaming in CO faster than solo. And XP for helping team mates complete missions has been promised. Sidekicking may need some work, but being able to sidekick more than one person is a great advance.

    CoX when it started had tons less costume options, no capes, no respec at all, fewer types of quests, all the buildings looked the same inside, can't recall whether it was the beta, but you only could go one stop at a time on the train.

    The 2 trains for sure never stopped at the same place.

    People are complaining that teamng isn't necessary, but in CoX and WoW people were complaining about forced teaming, and those games were modified so you don't need to team for most of the content, enough to get to max level solo. I find if you team in CO it's more challenging, with henchmen running for help. How many raids did WoW start with?

    I think the next level mmo shoudl have voice capabilities, so that I can talk into my mic and have the npcs talk back. Definatly possible  with modern lechnology, but I'm not holding my breath.

    Cryptic has it eye on the good stuff in WoW and other games, and has it's own way of making playing more fun in general.

    About the 200 man guild thing, how often does that happen? I've never seen it, seriously curious. I guess you all get in the same area . . . and then look at your guild chat? I woudl think the befefits of having any player have the option of joining your guild without th worry of being on a different server would outweigh the inconvinience of not being able to get eveyone in one screen shot that one time a year when everyone is actually online at the same time. Would being able to have an unlimited number of people (well, high limit) in your Super Team base do the trick there?

    Please let me knwo what game has better teaming, good pvp, is well balanced, and looks and performs well.

    Seriously, I haven't found any.

     



     

    You're right in sayin g its the writers perspective and your's and his differ. In fact your's differs from most and that's fine. Understand that the majority doesn't agree with what you're saying.

    You're right no game gets released with all the pretty bows in place and without errors, but you can't deny that CO was launched early and with an excess of problems, the launch day patch shows this. They changed the whole game on launch day. Even the devs admit there are problems, and that they have had challenges. Its great you've found a game you love and I want to love it too but I just dont share your point of view.

     You're right in saying that development teams are pushed toward a launch date by their publishers but this shouldn't happen and doesn't make me feel any empathy for the plight of the development studio as both the developer and the publisher get paid by the early incomplete launches that are occuring. it's just bad business and needs to be changed.

    Compairing this game at launch to CoX at launch is unfair. Times are different now games are different now there are alot more ideas to draw from out there than when CoX launched. Don't forget CoX predates WoW. Since WoW launched there have literally been thousands of MMOs launching. This was Cryptics second attempt at basically the same sort of game so they should have had a much stronger launch than they did based on years of past experience. I think they were out of development money and needed some funds rolling in. truth be known CoX wasn't great until NC Soft bought the game outright along with some fo the stronger developers and fixed things.

     

    The 200 man guild thing happens alot in CoX. In fact there are guilds that have to start up numerous affiliate guilds under names with Alpha Beta gamma added in front of them in order to keep track of all the members. WoW has even bigger guild/ afiilate structures as there are many more players. So I think it probably happens more often than you think, and whether it's an issue for you specifically or not in your experience of CO it IS a major issue for some. For some of the comments Ive read there are people who that was a deal breaker for. they can't have a huge super group in CO so they just won;t even try it out. Co should be trying to accomodate large group events as it means large groups of people are playing their game! LOL It's just good business to accomadate large social groups in an industry like this.

    I found one game I really like that is well balanced has good teaming options andIm not sure about the PvP yet as I havent tried. That game is the new re-release of DDO ( Dungeons & Dragons Online) It's a very solid game now, fun to play, stands out a little bit in the genre and is just well made now compaired to other fantasy MMOs as far as a comparaiable to Co; CoX has it beat hands down. Co may improve over time. I plan to check it out again in a year or so but for the time being I won;t give Cryptic any money to perpetuate their ugly version of customer service and appreciation.

  • daltaniousdaltanious waPosts: 2,142Member Uncommon

    Since first few days I started to love more and more this game. Incredibly fast paced, fun, customizable beyond believ, .... I really felt like superhero. But ... after 3rd (or 4th) big nerf in only few weaks (that one when they took mini mines, agree very OVERpowered ... and made them  incredibly UNDERpowered) i simply lost all interest in game. This was last hit. In last week I have logged back .... and then just quit few times. Free weeks will expire soon ... and have no intention to use them at all. Simply I do not find any joy more to play it as is only matter of days when this lunatics will again nerf to the hell some other power or anything else. Incredible mess with such potentiali great and fun game. Today superman ... tomorrow pussy cat. Also Aoc was disappointment at start (because of problems) ... but even when I left i was already sure I will try again after few months ... and then have tried again ... until I found game very improved. Like War. But not here.

    Second reason (but would not have such impact per se): impossibility to retcon. I do not care at all about discussion about tank mage, because this, imo, is bs. You have limited investment in various powers and other ... so, no, you can not create real good tank and real good mage in one person. Being unable to retcon simply takes away a lot of fun, because part of fun is to expriment various builds. And it is not fun after i.e. 4th time to delete same  lv. 13 just to try another build or change flight form. That training area is more or less useless so you must go out and try everything.

    So .... happened something I would never thought is possible. After a week of gameplay  on my list for fun factor have surpassed all but Wow. For the first time I have found game that since first days was able to compete wow (for fun factor, not overall of course) Now i even do not count CO on any list. For now my preffered list is wow, aoc, aion, war, lotro. And the rest. With CO lost in space. I'm very sad for this, but this is thing are now. Maybe someday in future (if does not follow TR destiny) will eventually try again. Maybe.

  • MikeBMikeB MMORPG.com Community Manager Queens, NYPosts: 5,717Administrator Uncommon
    Originally posted by evgen88


    Wow, anyone know how to do an impartial review?
    Review a new game on the fact it is a new game?
     
    And what other MMOs are we comparing too? WoW? Other successful MMOs . . . hmm . . . WoW?
    WoW has been around for what, more than 5 years anyway, and when it first came out it was so boring leveling to 10 I quit playing. Only thier PAID expansion was done well enough to make me play long enough to get to the higher level stuff, there was still a 'gap' there with lots of content sure, but all over the place, with much potential to gimp my character at ever increasing costs.
    Missed good points of CO
    Travel powers at level 5, fun travel powers, because half the fun is the journey, right? Not in an MMOG
    Characters not linked to server (This is good, even with sharding, I quote "sharding is unacceptable and automatically takes this game off my list to ever play" Why? Because of the size limit? What is more likely, CO will raise the limit, have special Guild zones, or that WoW will allow free server transfers? Or do you want to cause a lagfest by having  200 people storm a zone with 100 other people in it already?)
    Side Kick system (allows people to play together and still get rewards)
    No WAITING for mana, a train, your friend to take a taxi to where you are.
    The ability to take any power you want (yeah, I'm sure fixing power descriptions will be an impossible task)
    Stances ( you can set up for different roles, as early as level 10, sooner I think, without paying 1000g)
    bag space not an issue ( I dare anyone to call me out on that)
     
    It seems like the reviewer focused on the bad points, forgot many of the good points, and compared a new game to established games. CO has a lot of potential, they are taking the good things from other games, and adding their own great ideas on top of it.
    All the problems mentioned are there, I didn't find tabbing to be that much of an issue, maybe the reviewer needed to tweak the settings. The game thinks about a lot of stuff  when tabbing, threat, your point of view, many of these things can be toggled on and off. There will be more content, it's already coming, balance is something that will never be attained because min maxers like to do their thing too, and they pay money just like everyone else. Why else is there always an obvious flavor of the month, even in WoW? I'm curious what UI problems there were, I just want to make more chat windows, I'm sure that will happen soon enough too. After all, it is a new game bu a company that isn't Blizzard (with it's built in HUGE fan base), that was most likely hurried to market. It may still be like Beta, but my heroes won't be erased, they give out free respecs, and my max level guy will probably be quite different than anyone else, at the least in appearance.
    If 5 people started playing WoW, and CO right now, (no WoW expansion) which game would they prefer? No one to give them any help outside their circle. I think the answer is CO. Any other game that would be more fun? I'd like to know about it.
    And PvP, again, good framework is there. In WoW would you advise me to PvP at level 12? 23? 34? How about 45? What game has this good PvP and how does it work? Is it the content again? Content is easy once you have the framework.
    That's about it for me for now.
     
    Edit: And teaming, xp and mission sharing is top on their list too.
    The game has been out one month and more content, and a new framework are coming soon.
     
    Edit 2:
    Another good point, the power house test area. You can test out your powers before locking them in. Sure, it needs work. And I'm sure it will get it.
    Edit 3 for horrendous spelling.

    I covered many of the topics you mentioned  in our Hands On Preview.

    Michael "MikeB" Bitton
    Community Manager
    Twitter: @eMikeB

  • I read the review from a link on the top page of the site.

    Other posters also wondered why with all the bad points you mentioned you gave it the score you did.

    Maybe you should link the earlier review in the article.

    I'll have to try out my munitions guy now to see how nerfed it was :D

    I'm sure he will be unplayable now ;) <-sarcasm

  • BunglermooseBunglermoose Vacherie, LAPosts: 63Member

    I'm having fun. That's all I'm worried about. When it's not fun anymore, I'll move on. Until then -- up, up and AWAY!

     

    Oh, and Gauntlet Chainsaw is a Gadgeteering power, not at a Power Armor power.

  • ShreddiShreddi Thousand Oaks, CAPosts: 315Member

    Been playing since beta, preorder and can Not put this game down.  Worste addiction ever for an mmo and me.  This game is not for everyone and not a typical mmo.  Instead of pretending your exploring caves, mountains, forests and whatever developer paints into the games landscape, you create a character and are given countless ways to customize and tweak.   From the looks to the powers, abilities, characteristics and movement.   After your character is built you take pit it against the mobs doing missions and the usual mmo stuff, exept for exploring, very little of that.  I think of CO's world as one giant arena,  doing missions earning enhancements, stats, etc to improve your character while noticing if you should try a different combination of powers, their levels or advantages, also change enhancements, moving stats around, etc.   Or you stop by tailor after noticing a detail to add or unlock a piece you picked up.   Their is PvP,  but with all the possibilities and variations one has access to it is impossible to balance without everyone taking basically the same abilitys, powers, etc.   Other mmo's restrict a set of powers, etc. to a class,  say 8 classes have 8 possible powers or whatever their called in whatever game,  they have sets to compare each other to.  CO allows each player to pick whatever from wherever, no restrictions.   It is the greatest feature ever,  No more knowing exactly what your going to get because your class gets the same thing every other class like yours does.  Anyway,  The game is Not for everyone, thats for sure.  The forums are full of complaints but then again I have yet to see a forum without a lot of complaints.   I imagine Hello Kitty would be safe.  CO kind of reminds me of an Action/Arcade mmo with endliss possibilities,  the eye candy is exceptional too.   Not a lotro (I play it's great), wow (another good one),  but whatever,  CO works for me. 

    This post is intentionally written as to not make any sense what so ever. Thank You Very Much.

  • flydowntomeflydowntome Norwich, CTPosts: 106Member

    I notice a trend in the reviews to overscore games. I think the staff really needs to either be more realistic in scoring, or go to a 5 point scale. Anyways, I play CO and here are my thoughts. It's about a 5.5-6.0.

    -Graphics are nice, although the character and character creator is surprisingly limited when you get in depth of it. You will see a lot of re-used accesories on players, and certain types of parts (zombie heads, insect heads, full face masks) are limited to a single piece. You can unlock more, but in practice there isn't as much variety as it seems, especially if you choose to make a non-human character. Being able to switch costumes on the go is excellent though, although you need to earn the slots, or buy additional from the items store.

    -Environments are ok. People dislike instancing, but the environments aren't actually that large considering travel powers. You can easily go from one end to the other in 15 minutes or less in some maps. They are well-designed, but kind of bland, packed full of questing hotstops and enemies, with less pure candy just to explore with.

    -Combat is meh. You constantly fight enemies that just attack you solo or in small groups, and you either regen health or die. There is very little tactical play it seems. Crowd Control doesn't work so well because all enemies have a ranged as well as a close attack normally. It's very mindless in play, and gets dull fast. They try to spice it up with boss characters but the same applies, you just pound on them, and try to regen more health than they can take away. PvP i have only tried briefly so I wont comment.

    -Character Advancement-huge meh. You cannot design for a theme, as a person before mentioned, but have to take abilities that can progress in the game. If you don't, and pick the wrong powerset, you will be useless fighting because you can't soak enough damage, especially against bosses. The powers seem still unbalanced, with little reason to slot offensive ones as damage mitigation is more important at first. The saving grace is that the powers look cool.

    -Community-soso. Turn off zone chat, it gets annoying. Not a bad place for roleplayers though, and since you can solo a lot of the game, your exposure is limited. There's little reason to even guild apart from getting a free costume slot. Worst aspect is the chat system, it is hard to read sometimes and the chat server occasionally goes down (!) or lags mking you unable to talk.

    -technical issues-bad. I think they were having problems with characters stuck and the entire zone of lemuria being down. It's all right most of the time, but they happen occasionally.

    This being said, it is a fun game if you view it as a secondary MMO and a social one. It's the kind of game you log on to relax, do some mindless grinding, and talk with some people. It's not really one to hook a hardcore raider or player though.

  • ShreddiShreddi Thousand Oaks, CAPosts: 315Member

    CO is a game you can pick up and play for fun.   I would categorize it as an Arcade mmo.   since its F2P its gone nuts.  they did a lot of fine tuning and details added (sounds, language, script, etc.)  If your a hard core fantasy (wow type) mmo player, ya might not like it.   Emphisis on Arcade style mmo.  I can not put the damn game down.  Poster says secondary and he is right.   My work and life are primary,  CO offers a break from it.    I really would like to know what is recomended for "primary" mmo's.    Eve?  I hear thats a life in its own.   What does one commit their entire game time to?   WoW?  Eve? Fallen Earth? FOM?  there are so many but few really popular.  Ryzom had the nicest comunity ever and see they are rated up there.  Anyway,  CO in my opinion is a great modern game,  more substance then dcuo at the moment, but then again its been out much longer.   I (not everyone, but others did say same in CO chat window) got bored with dcuo and went back to CO.   I should go back to COH/V for the hellavit.    A month for 15 bucks is entertainment value maximus.   I just dont like sticking s^%t on my drives cause uninstalling properly requires manually picking through your registry.   Noticed this system still has fallen earth so might try it even though they ripped me off 50 bucks and said FU when i described.  They agreed it was mistake in their favor but never the less they kept the cash and told me to F myself.   

    This post is intentionally written as to not make any sense what so ever. Thank You Very Much.

  • Zamjr86Zamjr86 Monsey, NYPosts: 1Member
    to be fair there are a few offensive passives worth taking provided you synergize your other powers around them.
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