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Why The Secret World and Funcom Deserve Better

13

Comments

  • FraugnutzFraugnutz Colorado Springs, COPosts: 69Member
    I really dont understand the objection to the sub+cash shop model when the shop is purely for vanity and there is no reason that any player HAS to use it. It offers zero advantages to those players that do choose to use it. So who cares? Its no sweat off my sack if someone wants to drop some $$$ on a new beanie or a leather coat for their toon. Whats the issue...? WoW has a cash shop more or less that offers purely cosmetic items to players, why isnt that considered a strike against it, when for so many people its a deal breaker when it comes to TSW.
  • SiderasSideras HelsingborgPosts: 231Member

    TSW is a good game in many ways, but their timing is really bad. They release 2 months or so before GW2 that's pretty heavy competition right there. But they wanted to be niché and they got it. TSW wasn't very interesting after 3 weeks or so, the main story was good but I didn't want to grind gear and the PvP was probably the worst I've ever played.

    Truth be told TSW would be a better single player game, considering the story was great and the characters were interesting.

  • Ambros123Ambros123 Neverneverland, TNPosts: 877Member
    Originally posted by Fraugnutz
    I really dont understand the objection to the sub+cash shop model when the shop is purely for vanity and there is no reason that any player HAS to use it. It offers zero advantages to those players that do choose to use it. So who cares? Its no sweat off my sack if someone wants to drop some $$$ on a new beanie or a leather coat for their toon. Whats the issue...? WoW has a cash shop more or less that offers purely cosmetic items to players, why isnt that considered a strike against it, when for so many people its a deal breaker when it comes to TSW.

    Because people are already paying a sub, why the hell do they gotta shell out more cash for some vanity items?  This is pure greed and a slap in the face to their customers imo.  I feel that if one is paying a sub then there should be rewards.  DDO gives their VIP sub customers a monthly cash shop currenncy allowance.

    I don't agree with WoW's cash shop either and years ago told friends that when they stopped giving pets away for anniverseries and gave some crappy achivement title that is was a slap in the face.  But WoW's is somewhat modest I guess.  A few pets and mount choices.  Wouldn't really call it a cash shop to be honest.

  • WolvardsWolvards grants pass, ORPosts: 650Member
    Originally posted by Fraugnutz
    I really dont understand the objection to the sub+cash shop model when the shop is purely for vanity and there is no reason that any player HAS to use it. It offers zero advantages to those players that do choose to use it. So who cares? Its no sweat off my sack if someone wants to drop some $$$ on a new beanie or a leather coat for their toon. Whats the issue...? WoW has a cash shop more or less that offers purely cosmetic items to players, why isnt that considered a strike against it, when for so many people its a deal breaker when it comes to TSW.

    1) Buy the game

    2) Pay for the game

    3) Cash shop in game

    All 3 is greedy.

    Any two is ok (as long as not P2W by MY definitions)

     

    The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.

  • DakirnDakirn Kansas City, MOPosts: 374Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Wolvards
    Originally posted by Fraugnutz
    I really dont understand the objection to the sub+cash shop model when the shop is purely for vanity and there is no reason that any player HAS to use it. It offers zero advantages to those players that do choose to use it. So who cares? Its no sweat off my sack if someone wants to drop some $$$ on a new beanie or a leather coat for their toon. Whats the issue...? WoW has a cash shop more or less that offers purely cosmetic items to players, why isnt that considered a strike against it, when for so many people its a deal breaker when it comes to TSW.

    1) Buy the game

    2) Pay for the game

    3) Cash shop in game

    All 3 is greedy.

    Any two is ok (as long as not P2W by MY definitions)

     

    The only purpose of the cash shop is.. to make things for the cash shop.  All of the money made is to support additional clothing for those people.  It has absolutely nothing, at all, to do with the game.  At all. Period.  Money made in cash shop = money to make more items for cash shop.  If nobody buys cash shop items, no cash shop items get made. It's completely self sustained.

     

    It has the added benefit of clothing that was made FOR the cash store eventually coming into the game, in addition to ALL the other clothing ALREADY coming into the game as part of the regular updates (and there has already been additional clothing into the game just in the first 2 patches that aren't in the cash shop).

     

    I've seen games triple dip but the clothing store in TSW isn't one of them (by MY definition).

  • MindTriggerMindTrigger La Quinta, CAPosts: 2,596Member
    Originally posted by Eir_S
    Originally posted by MindTrigger

     Yet, I don't hear anyone complaining about GW2 animations.  I have seen lots of complaints about the Norn characters to the point that some people flat out refuse to play them.

    What?

    I think that counts as complaining about the animations.  It's a fair complaint too.

    Well, they don't know it's the animations they are complaining about.  A lot of them can't put their finger on it.  They say their character is "slow" and "weird".. heh.

    A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  • KenzeKenze Posts: 1,214Member Uncommon

    TSW and Funcom deserve what they EARN.

    Its the gaming community and those who pay that DESERVE better.

    Watch your thoughts; they become words.
    Watch your words; they become actions.
    Watch your actions; they become habits.
    Watch your habits; they become character.
    Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.
    —Lao-Tze

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by Dakirn
    Originally posted by Wolvards
    Originally posted by Fraugnutz
    I really dont understand the objection to the sub+cash shop model when the shop is purely for vanity and there is no reason that any player HAS to use it. It offers zero advantages to those players that do choose to use it. So who cares? Its no sweat off my sack if someone wants to drop some $$$ on a new beanie or a leather coat for their toon. Whats the issue...? WoW has a cash shop more or less that offers purely cosmetic items to players, why isnt that considered a strike against it, when for so many people its a deal breaker when it comes to TSW.

    1) Buy the game

    2) Pay for the game

    3) Cash shop in game

    All 3 is greedy.

    Any two is ok (as long as not P2W by MY definitions)

     

    The only purpose of the cash shop is.. to make things for the cash shop.  All of the money made is to support additional clothing for those people.  It has absolutely nothing, at all, to do with the game.  At all. Period.  Money made in cash shop = money to make more items for cash shop.  If nobody buys cash shop items, no cash shop items get made. It's completely self sustained.

     

    It has the added benefit of clothing that was made FOR the cash store eventually coming into the game, in addition to ALL the other clothing ALREADY coming into the game as part of the regular updates (and there has already been additional clothing into the game just in the first 2 patches that aren't in the cash shop).

     

    I've seen games triple dip but the clothing store in TSW isn't one of them (by MY definition).

    I don't care really about the cash shop but in TSW clothing is a HUGE part of the game. I don't generally like a sub game having a shop that has items I can't get in the game by some other means though, but guess it's becoming the norm nowadays

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by MindTrigger
    Originally posted by Eir_S
    Originally posted by MindTrigger

     Yet, I don't hear anyone complaining about GW2 animations.  I have seen lots of complaints about the Norn characters to the point that some people flat out refuse to play them.

    What?

    I think that counts as complaining about the animations.  It's a fair complaint too.

    Well, they don't know it's the animations they are complaining about.  A lot of them can't put their finger on it.  They say their character is "slow" and "weird".. heh.

    it's this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_valley

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • KenzeKenze Posts: 1,214Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Dakirn
    Originally posted by Wolvards
    Originally posted by Fraugnutz
    I really dont understand the objection to the sub+cash shop model when the shop is purely for vanity and there is no reason that any player HAS to use it. It offers zero advantages to those players that do choose to use it. So who cares? Its no sweat off my sack if someone wants to drop some $$$ on a new beanie or a leather coat for their toon. Whats the issue...? WoW has a cash shop more or less that offers purely cosmetic items to players, why isnt that considered a strike against it, when for so many people its a deal breaker when it comes to TSW.

    1) Buy the game

    2) Pay for the game

    3) Cash shop in game

    All 3 is greedy.

    Any two is ok (as long as not P2W by MY definitions)

     

    The only purpose of the cash shop is.. to make things for the cash shop.  All of the money made is to support additional clothing for those people.  It has absolutely nothing, at all, to do with the game.  At all. Period.  Money made in cash shop = money to make more items for cash shop.  If nobody buys cash shop items, no cash shop items get made. It's completely self sustained.

     

    It has the added benefit of clothing that was made FOR the cash store eventually coming into the game, in addition to ALL the other clothing ALREADY coming into the game as part of the regular updates (and there has already been additional clothing into the game just in the first 2 patches that aren't in the cash shop).

     

    I've seen games triple dip but the clothing store in TSW isn't one of them (by MY definition).

    could you show proof from Funcom that all cash shop proceeds go back in to making more cash shop items?

    Watch your thoughts; they become words.
    Watch your words; they become actions.
    Watch your actions; they become habits.
    Watch your habits; they become character.
    Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.
    —Lao-Tze

  • ZooceZooce B, FLPosts: 586Member
    The Repopulation.
  • KeyloggerKeylogger Bumblefuck, TNPosts: 250Member

    Most of the problem with cash shops is the main vein of developer focus becomes solely that.

     

    Not the actual game itself - just the cash shop.

     

     

  • IllyssiaIllyssia LondonPosts: 1,524Member
    Funcom made an mmo that was good and had niche apeal, but in the end the game wasn't what joe and jane casual gamer were looking for so we are likely telling less than 100K subs now, and drastic measures now from Funcom. EA/Bioware had problems with losing their casual player base and it is a reality, I level up my character in a month or two and play that part of the game then quit it. However, EA/Bioware got much bigger numbers and in theory free-two-play and new content aimed at both casual and hardcore will bring joe and jane back, while keeping the gamers in their too. GW2 which launches in days is perfect for joe and jane casual player, no sub, buy-to-win, but the launch content will dry up and they will go elsewhere, but that's fine subs don't mean anything to a game box numbers mmo, WoW will come out with its Panda expansion, but is a Panda game too kidie now for joe and jane casual, who played the game when it had a much darker tone to it. In the end of the year I think themmo market saturated, and stuff like a good IP and lore will matter to where you spend your bucks and time, albeit you may be spending in a cash shop rather than a sub. In this word TSW looks a bit too small and nice to survive as sub alone, we are surely talking relaunch as free-to-play title soon. Funcom have to play the cards dealt to them by the world and yes they do desrve this.
  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,284Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kenze
    Originally posted by Dakirn
    Originally posted by Wolvards
    Originally posted by Fraugnutz
    I really dont understand the objection to the sub+cash shop model when the shop is purely for vanity and there is no reason that any player HAS to use it. It offers zero advantages to those players that do choose to use it. So who cares? Its no sweat off my sack if someone wants to drop some $$$ on a new beanie or a leather coat for their toon. Whats the issue...? WoW has a cash shop more or less that offers purely cosmetic items to players, why isnt that considered a strike against it, when for so many people its a deal breaker when it comes to TSW.

    1) Buy the game

    2) Pay for the game

    3) Cash shop in game

    All 3 is greedy.

    Any two is ok (as long as not P2W by MY definitions)

     

    The only purpose of the cash shop is.. to make things for the cash shop.  All of the money made is to support additional clothing for those people.  It has absolutely nothing, at all, to do with the game.  At all. Period.  Money made in cash shop = money to make more items for cash shop.  If nobody buys cash shop items, no cash shop items get made. It's completely self sustained.

     

    It has the added benefit of clothing that was made FOR the cash store eventually coming into the game, in addition to ALL the other clothing ALREADY coming into the game as part of the regular updates (and there has already been additional clothing into the game just in the first 2 patches that aren't in the cash shop).

     

    I've seen games triple dip but the clothing store in TSW isn't one of them (by MY definition).

    could you show proof from Funcom that all cash shop proceeds go back in to making more cash shop items?

    I don't know about that, but I know the clothing items in the cash are at most 10- 15% of what's in game and 100% optional  with no cash for gold system.

     

    Hell the TSW cash makes the WoW cash shop look like p2w...

  • shalissarshalissar Pohjois-PohjanmaaPosts: 299Member Uncommon

    No, they don't deserve better. They sat on their hands while numerous balance tipping exploits went and are still going unresolved. I saw the noobies of a faction go from ql5 to ql10.4 in remarkably short order because of an exploit with regards to certain tokens. There's a rumor of a certain bugged item in the game, and the playerbase doesn't even realize that particular item is just the tip of the iceberg.

    It's a poorly executed good idea. They really bit off more than they could chew BUT... I really hope and pray that they get it together so the game becomes really well polished and smoothed out. Because it is a good idea and it did have some amazing content.

    Edit: And the worst of it all is that they're saving their pvp changes that are sorely needed for next week when GW2 is released. Like fixing pvp including the exploits is some sort of marketing tactic. It's desperate, ugly, and I don't want to pay money to a company where the employees do nothing about anything until they either get bored (comboskipping in aoc) or pull this.

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,284Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Illyssia
    Funcom made an mmo that was good and had niche apeal, but in the end the game wasn't what joe and jane casual gamer were looking for so we are likely telling less than 100K subs now, and drastic measures now from Funcom. EA/Bioware had problems with losing their casual player base and it is a reality, I level up my character in a month or two and play that part of the game then quit it. However, EA/Bioware got much bigger numbers and in theory free-two-play and new content aimed at both casual and hardcore will bring joe and jane back, while keeping the gamers in their too. GW2 which launches in days is perfect for joe and jane casual player, no sub, buy-to-win, but the launch content will dry up and they will go elsewhere, but that's fine subs don't mean anything to a game box numbers mmo, WoW will come out with its Panda expansion, but is a Panda game too kidie now for joe and jane casual, who played the game when it had a much darker tone to it. In the end of the year I think themmo market saturated, and stuff like a good IP and lore will matter to where you spend your bucks and time, albeit you may be spending in a cash shop rather than a sub. In this word TSW looks a bit too small and nice to survive as sub alone, we are surely talking relaunch as free-to-play title soon. Funcom have to play the cards dealt to them by the world and yes they do desrve this.

    image

  • zimboy69zimboy69 chicargo, FLPosts: 378Member Uncommon

    why didnt they just release it buy to play

     

    personaly i loved TSW but i couldnt justify even buying knowing  a month later  GW2 was out and i knew i wouldnt play it after then as i simply  wouldnt pay a subscription for somthing im not playing

    i think they even know themselves that a lot will leave for GW2

    so in there greed  they lost a box sale from me

     if they had released a month ago  on  B2P  they could have stolen so much of GW2 thunder and might have stolen a lot of players 

     

    but they have a chance, if they announced in the next week that in a month or so  they are going B2P

    they could catch people leaving GW2 and gain alot of box sales but they should have done it   at release

     

    plus they have  to compete with MOP so its  not  looking good

     

     

     

    image

  • HurvartHurvart ystadPosts: 565Member
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by Kenze
    Originally posted by Dakirn
    Originally posted by Wolvards
    Originally posted by Fraugnutz
    I really dont understand the objection to the sub+cash shop model when the shop is purely for vanity and there is no reason that any player HAS to use it. It offers zero advantages to those players that do choose to use it. So who cares? Its no sweat off my sack if someone wants to drop some $$$ on a new beanie or a leather coat for their toon. Whats the issue...? WoW has a cash shop more or less that offers purely cosmetic items to players, why isnt that considered a strike against it, when for so many people its a deal breaker when it comes to TSW.

    1) Buy the game

    2) Pay for the game

    3) Cash shop in game

    All 3 is greedy.

    Any two is ok (as long as not P2W by MY definitions)

     

    The only purpose of the cash shop is.. to make things for the cash shop.  All of the money made is to support additional clothing for those people.  It has absolutely nothing, at all, to do with the game.  At all. Period.  Money made in cash shop = money to make more items for cash shop.  If nobody buys cash shop items, no cash shop items get made. It's completely self sustained.

     

    It has the added benefit of clothing that was made FOR the cash store eventually coming into the game, in addition to ALL the other clothing ALREADY coming into the game as part of the regular updates (and there has already been additional clothing into the game just in the first 2 patches that aren't in the cash shop).

     

    I've seen games triple dip but the clothing store in TSW isn't one of them (by MY definition).

    could you show proof from Funcom that all cash shop proceeds go back in to making more cash shop items?

    I don't know about that, but I know the clothing items in the cash are at most 10- 15% of what's in game and 100% optional  with no cash for gold system.

     

    Hell the TSW cash makes the WoW cash shop look like p2w...

    They can always add more items to the CS. And they will if they think they need to do that to increase profits. Perhaps there is no P2W now... But what do you think will happen 6-12 months from now? For some companies profit is much more important than idealism and principles.

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,284Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by shalissar

    No, they don't deserve better. They sat on their hands while numerous balance tipping exploits went and are still going unresolved. I saw the noobies of a faction go from ql5 to ql10.4 in remarkably short order because of an exploit with regards to certain tokens. There's a rumor of a certain bugged item in the game, and the playerbase doesn't even realize that particular item is just the tip of the iceberg.

    It's a poorly executed good idea. They really bit off more than they could chew BUT... I really hope and pray that they get it together so the game becomes really well polished and smoothed out. Because it is a good idea and it did have some amazing content.

    You know not nearly as bad as you make it sound, but there is truth in what you say.  TSW and the Dream engine are ahead of the graphics cure, the concept is so original that they it could have backed for another year and still been ahead of it's time. 

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,284Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Hurvart
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by Kenze
    Originally posted by Dakirn
    Originally posted by Wolvards
    Originally posted by Fraugnutz
    I really dont understand the objection to the sub+cash shop model when the shop is purely for vanity and there is no reason that any player HAS to use it. It offers zero advantages to those players that do choose to use it. So who cares? Its no sweat off my sack if someone wants to drop some $$$ on a new beanie or a leather coat for their toon. Whats the issue...? WoW has a cash shop more or less that offers purely cosmetic items to players, why isnt that considered a strike against it, when for so many people its a deal breaker when it comes to TSW.

    1) Buy the game

    2) Pay for the game

    3) Cash shop in game

    All 3 is greedy.

    Any two is ok (as long as not P2W by MY definitions)

     

    The only purpose of the cash shop is.. to make things for the cash shop.  All of the money made is to support additional clothing for those people.  It has absolutely nothing, at all, to do with the game.  At all. Period.  Money made in cash shop = money to make more items for cash shop.  If nobody buys cash shop items, no cash shop items get made. It's completely self sustained.

     

    It has the added benefit of clothing that was made FOR the cash store eventually coming into the game, in addition to ALL the other clothing ALREADY coming into the game as part of the regular updates (and there has already been additional clothing into the game just in the first 2 patches that aren't in the cash shop).

     

    I've seen games triple dip but the clothing store in TSW isn't one of them (by MY definition).

    could you show proof from Funcom that all cash shop proceeds go back in to making more cash shop items?

    I don't know about that, but I know the clothing items in the cash are at most 10- 15% of what's in game and 100% optional  with no cash for gold system.

     

    Hell the TSW cash makes the WoW cash shop look like p2w...

    They can always add more items to the CS. And they will if they think they need to do that to increase profits. Perhaps there is no P2W now... But what do you think will happen 6-12 months from now? For some companies profit is much more important than idealism and principles.

    I don't think FC is one of those companies. There is a point of importance for money no doubt though. Being an independent developer it seems Funcom has put gaming before investment people. For better or for worse, Funcom holds true to their name.

  • shadow9d9shadow9d9 Boca Raton, FLPosts: 366Member
    The game isn't even an mmo imo.  Tiny, separated instanced worlds with a lobby.  5 minutes of content followed by repeating a handful of dungeons like wow.   Same old, same old.  Companies need to stop copying wow's tired formula.  Look to Asheron's Call, Eve, and Ultima Online.
  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Webster, MAPosts: 4,813Member
    Originally posted by grimal
    Originally posted by Mothanos

    If you charge people with a box sale + sub = cash shop you need to deliver, Funcom does not delive that qaulity.
    Its like buying a car that is worth 5000 euro but is for sale for 10000 euro.

    In these days and the days to come you need to make full qaulity products if your in for a shot at the top.
    Medium created mmo's are not going to make it anymore with GW2 / PS2 / WoW / AA, people have seen the light, and are demanding top products.

    I heared TSW has around 350k subs, wich is a failure for investors as they at least counted on 750k or even more.

    Iam not here to bash your post as its well written.


    But Funcom had it comming, you raraly get second chanses from players, once you failed them its hard to convince them to play more of your products.
    Worth to mouth is a strong medium and on the internet its hard to erase your mistakes.

    Great read OP :)

     

    I don't agree with this at all. TSW is as good as any mainstream MMO released in the past few years. Quality has nothing to do with it. If you want to argue that, then by your logic WoW is the highest quality product out. Quality products are not guaranteed commercial success. History has proven this time and time again. The MMO market is completely over-saturated, WoW is an anomoly that arrived at the perfect time and people maintain their allegiance to it more due to its social connection than anything else. No game has been able to reproduce WoW numbers for many reasons, but quality certainly is not the prime reason.

    I do agree with him and yes a quality is the prime reason for it's failings that and failing to price accordingly. People will pay what they feel a product is worth. If they are asked for to much more than they feel the product is worth they move on. I can show evidence I am correct easily, when TSW was discounted heavily on Amazon thats when it started finally selling well. The reason for this is simple, the game isn't worth the price tag. Those people like many others will simply leave after the 30 days because again it's not worth the price tag. It happens alot now days. 

     

    And you are correct and incorrect about the market being over saturated. It is over saturated by sub par games, which makes it hard for other sub par games like TSW to survive let alone thrive. 

     

    And no WoW isn't the measuring stick of success or failure. Funcom set goals for TSW and failed to reach those goals. They set the bar to high and thought marketing alone could overcome the shortcommings of TSW and allow them to charge what they wanted. EA did the same with SWTOR. 

  • lifeordinarylifeordinary AgadirPosts: 646Member
    Originally posted by shadow9d9
    The game isn't even an mmo imo.  Tiny, separated instanced worlds with a lobby.  5 minutes of content followed by repeating a handful of dungeons like wow.   Same old, same old.  Companies need to stop copying wow's tired formula.  Look to Asheron's Call, Eve, and Ultima Online.

    I am no way a TSW fanboy but even i know what you wrote is false and complete nonsense.

  • ThorqemadaThorqemada BerlinPosts: 1,277Member Uncommon

    Funcom made a real stunt yet and will fire its german CM "Waldgeist" which backlashes to them and also made the german forum moderator team resign.
    The coporate decisions of Funcom sometimes make one wonder if they have any clue whats going on...

    "Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"

    MWO Music Video - What does the Mech say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF6HYNqCDLI
    Johnny Cash - The Man Comes Around: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0x2iwK0BKM

  • Ice-QueenIce-Queen USA, GAPosts: 2,451Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Mothanos

    Iam not here to bash your post as its well written.


    But Funcom had it comming, you raraly get second chanses from players, once you failed them its hard to convince them to play more of your products.
    Worth to mouth is a strong medium and on the internet its hard to erase your mistakes.

    Great read OP :)

    I think that sums it up really. It's hard to gain back trust in the mmorpg communities once you fail to deliver with a game that's hyped up from the makers. I think this has happened with Funcom, and why people didn't give TSW a fair shot.

    image

    What happens when you log off your characters????.....
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
    Dark Age of Camelot

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