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From what I've seen / experienced, unless that game is going to be your "main" game and you plan on playing it all the time, the fremium model works because you get what you pay for.
For expample 1: if you subscribe for $15 and only play 1 day a week, you just paid $15 for 4 days of gameplay.
Example 2: But if you bought content (such as in LOTRO) for $15, played 1 day a week and it took 8 weeks to finish that content, you got the full benefit of what you paid for. If you had subscribed, you would have only been halfway through it and would have had to pay for another full month to complete that part of content.
The reverse is true too however. It all depends on how often you play and how fast you go through the content.
Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by KingGator
There is no such thing as free to play. You will pay one way or the other. It just so happens sub games in the long run are cheaper, and more honest about what they're doing.
What you say is factually wrong. A majority of F2P players do NOT pay. It is well known that a few whales are subsidizing everyone else.
So no .. you won't pay. A few will pay for you.
actually...YOU are factually wrong. in another thread i posted in about a month ago someone found data showing that literally 75 percent of free to play players pay!! it was also shown thay retention is low. so yeah... you are factually wrong. ill find the links later.im on my phone. or if you care to educate yourself you can look it up.
Originally posted by TheScavenger Freemiums are very expensive. Ever taken a look at everything you would need to unlock, compared to just paying monthly? Vanguard, Everquest 2 and Lord of the Rings online (unless you grind for a year to get it for free)...all cost more than a years worth of subscription would if you wanted to unlock every class/quest/bags/etc. EQ2 and VG being the most expensive out of the ones I listed. Sure, you can play for free...but they are more like an extended demo than anything.
I've been raging about EQ2X being expensive like hell from the moment it was launched. Instead of ppl telling me true at the time, I was rather bashed because it was 'cheaper than the subscription'.
(yeah there the graph is again
I fully agree with you Scavenger. The Freemium MMO's these days are way more expensive than old-school subscription (and that's why they changed to Fremium in the first place), and do not deserve the title Free2Play at all.
On the other hand, true Free2Play MMORPG's (Lineage II, Aion and perfect World come to mind) are hard to find and when you have foud one, you got to take a good look at the cash shop to make sure it's not a Pay2Win title (Perfect World & gPotato titles).
AsRock 990FX Extreme3AMD Phenom II 1090T ~3.2GhzGEiL 16Gb DDR3 1600MhzASUS GTX970 3x HD monitor 1920x1080
Originally posted by madazz Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by KingGator
Here are research showing that MOST f2p players do NOT pay.
And i quote "The large majority of free-to-play online gamers in the U.S. never pay extra money on virtual items, the main revenue generator for many "free-to-play" games, according to the report."
And i quote "Of all 50 million MMO gamers in the US, 23 million spend money on free-to-play or subscription MMOs." .. that is a majority 27M .. do not pay.
freemium is free whit payment option ,sub force you to pay
you can play a freemiun game and even if you have some content block it really dont afect you or force you to buy somehting it just if you want it like Lotro and d&d ,but it stil lfree,its we human are soo greedy that we fall from ourself and thats why companny steal from us ,but what can isay we are all diferent and some may fall.
Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by madazz Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by KingGator
Interesting .. that's still more than I would have guessed. Of course those free players help to populate a world and make those willing to pay feel like it's money well spent. Essentially they help to keep the game environment well above critical mass. It's a tight balance.
Free works as a means of generating popularity to go viral. See early web browsers trying to compete with Microsoft.
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcpRecognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
Actually maybe there is a social dynamic here involved which is making some people lean toward fremium. Here is what I mean....
I have several rental properties. I have mentioned to various renters over the years that with a small investment, you can own your own home for a mortgage half as much as what they are paying in rent and take the tax deduction as well. It's a great time to buy! Housing prices are down and mortgage rates are low. But every time, my renters have said the same thing: they don't want to buy their own house and feel committed.
So is that what's going on? Is it this increasing lack of desire to commit....to anything...that is pushing this new payment model? Because if you are playing a ftp hardcore or semi hardcore you will exceed $15 a month most likely.
Originally posted by Vesavius Originally posted by TheScavenger Why is "Freemium" the new rage? More than paying monthly fee
Because the social engineering (read 'sales push') that has been conducted across the 'independent' gaming sites acorss the gaming internet to make it so the last few years has been gob smackingly effective.
Just goes to show how easily opinions are formed and the drones are led, all the while ending up convinced they wanted it all along and even that it was THEIR idea.
Ofc, everyone so led is convinced they are hugely smart and totally beyond being sold to, having their opinions formed, or indeed incapable of ever being a drone. They are the smartest most free thinking individuals on the planet and impervious to being manipulated.
All the while they are thinking this advertisers, shills, and creative marketing departments the world over laugh their arses off.
I see I am not the only one that understands what has REALLY been going on for years now in MMO Gaming.
Originally posted by Gardavsshade Originally posted by Vesavius Originally posted by TheScavenger Why is "Freemium" the new rage? More than paying monthly fee
So the only ones that are truely smart are the ones that agree with you? Interesting.
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar Originally posted by Gardavsshade Originally posted by Vesavius Originally posted by TheScavenger Why is "Freemium" the new rage? More than paying monthly fee
this is awesome. we're getting horrifying conspiracy theories even in the mmo industry. hey did bobby kotick take elvis?
People are cheap and want something for nothing.
Many games needed a better free trial.
Originally posted by MMOman101 People are cheap and want something for nothing. Many games needed a better free trial.
This and some. Especially here in the US people think they're entitled to get everything free.
It really makes no difference for the individual player. If I know I will have to pay to have fun It will be expensive for me. Every potential player should try to figure that out. Think about the limitations and check out the CS and the items they sell in it.
Originally posted by TheScavenger Freemiums are very expensive. Ever taken a look at everything you would need to unlock, compared to just paying monthly? Vanguard, Everquest 2 and Lord of the Rings online (unless you grind for a year to get it for free)...all cost more than a years worth of subscription would if you wanted to unlock every class/quest/bags/etc.
Most of the unlocks are one time charges. If you play the game two years you wouldn't get charged the second year.
SWTOR and AoC have models specifically designed to get you to subscribe if you want to enjoy the content. The basically offer a free trial to the level cap and then expect you to sub in order to enjoy end game. Anyone that doesn't want to sub can't really enjoy the game at level cap.
The LOTRO model is definitely superior to those.
I don't think the LOTRO online was a bad decision,i bet stats show gamers don't last long enough to get 199 out of a game.
EVERY single developer that decides on a pay schedule will make a game that fits the budget,They will not give you a high end game for free.They will also not give you a complete game,but instead rely on selling yo uthe rest of the game in xpacs.
If yo uread Chris Whiteside article from Arena-Net he put it best to say this.He said people are looking for the best bang for the buck,a game tha tcharges a sub fee would have to be a LOT better tha nthe free game,or people won't pay it.
So the obvious choice by developers now is to make an average game and bank on no other developer will make a GREAT game to overthrow you.
Just like we saw early on everyone copied SOE's lead,we will see the majority copy this lead.This is MUCH more cost efficient and less risk for developers,but it will NOT give us the high end games we had hoped for.
None the less just like everything else ,people soon catch on and things change.
There is really only one avenue left and i guarantee it happens.next stop is full blown cash shop and soon to have advertisements everywhere in game.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Originally posted by TheScavenger Why is "Freemium" the new rage? More than paying monthly fee?
People are generaly stupid when it comes to handling money.
To find an intelligent person in a PUG is not that rare, but to find a PUG made up of "all" intelligent people is one of the rarest phenomenons in the known universe.
Originally posted by atticusbc Originally posted by VengeSunsoar Originally posted by Gardavsshade Originally posted by Vesavius Originally posted by TheScavenger Why is "Freemium" the new rage? More than paying monthly fee
Because the social engineering (read: 'sales push') that has been conducted across the 'independent' gaming sites acorss the gaming internet to make it so the last few years has been gob smackingly effective.
It just goes to show how easily opinions are formed and the drones are led, even to the point of ending up convinced they wanted it all along and even that it was THEIR idea.
Ofc, everyone so led is convinced they are hugely smart, totally beyond being sold to, having their opinions formed, or indeed incapable of ever being a drone. They are the smartest most free thinking individuals on the planet and impervious to being manipulated.
All the while they are thinking this the advertisers, shills, and creative marketing departments the world over are laughing their arses off.
Statements of denial like this that you are being sold to and having your opinions formed are exactly why the 'creative marketers' are laughing their arses off at you.
This is kind of the point in what I was saying really. They even have the normal user arguing to defend, deny, or discredit the aggressive commercial promotion of the cash shop revenue model because it's easier then admitting he is getting played.
If you cannot see that this revenue model has been handled and sold very much in the same way as a conventional product across the internet the past few years then I don't really know what to say to you except wake up and look around further then your own tiny bubble.
Originally posted by William12 Originally posted by MMOman101 People are cheap and want something for nothing. Many games needed a better free trial.
Goes for europeans as well.
Originally posted by TheScavenger Freemiums are very expensive. A real free to play is a lot better, since you can truly play for free and everything is unlocked, without being nickle and dimed.
The first line is false. The second line refers to something that doesn't exist.
Since all the facts regarding this have been presented time and again, yet you dismiss them for the sake of chanting the same debunked talking points over and over, I don't think any amount of actual explanation at this point would do any good.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
The current popular themepark MMORPG design model revolves around designing what amounts to a single player story “campaign" with cooperative play opportunities that is themed around the idea of killing things and taking their stuff. PVP feels like an after thought and raiding a railroad between boss encounters for loot that does nothing other than look shiny on your character for bragging rights.
To be honest, I can get better PVP from a MOBA. I can get better boss fights for loot from an ARPG. I can get better story from a good single player RPG. I can get better co-op in a shooter. They provide more focused experiences. MMORPGs try to compete by providing a breadth of experience but unfailingly end up feeling watered down in comparison as they are diverse by nature. This is why I feel most people will tell you they quit their MMORPG of choice after a month. In comparison to the competition it wasn’t worth the subscription fee for the content offered and other additional costs.
The typical new release MMORPG expects me to buy the core game for $60 US. They expect me to pay $15 US per month to play. They expect me to buy the “niftier” items from their cash shop at additional charge. None of the competing game types require that sort of cash investment. Just as an example I can go become a Gamefly member again and rent any console or PC game I want throughout the month for a set fee of something like $15 to $20 a month. I can go download a MOBA like MechWarrior and pay for what I want right then almost like visiting the old Video Game Arcades from my home PC.
Right now, it seems the thinking sweeping the industry is that in order to compete an MMORPG needs to remove the first barrier to entry (being the software cost) and then try to hook you on playing long enough to recoup their money by encouraging you to buy the game piece mail along the way in the heat of the moment. It’s almost like addicting someone to gambling knowing they are going to bottom out and burn out after a few hands so you charge a small fee at the outset that quickly grows into premium charge ASAP before they realize what is happening to them.
What I can’t figure out is why it hasn’t occurred to most development teams to redefine their niche in order to compete. If breadth of play experience in one bundle is all you have to offer then you need to improve that “breadth.” It’s your strength and one way to fight the weaknesses. Some might claim the “virtual world” concept of play is dead but it seems to be the only way to compete against individually better, more focused, niche products. The only reason I can come up with for the status quo is that we the consumer keep throwing money at them in hopes of a better value than what we invariably get and there are enough new suckers inbound to fill our shoes when we wise up.
I will not claim that the MMORPG genre is dead. I will say that the industry doesn’t look healthy and designers seem to be suffering from a funk while throwing their hands into the air trying to figure out what we want when its right under their noses. There are industry leading professionals like Matt Firor that now claim to be making online RPGs rather than MMORPGS and if that trend continues...
These statements are always made by people who don't understand how players of freemium games approach those games.
Players can be devided in a couple of groups, take my definitions as you will, this is how i see them
-Free players: Mostly casual players, they'll play because their friends do, or hop from game to game, or just have fun with the game witout caring if they see everything it has to offer or not
-Cash shop casuals: Those are free players who have played for a while, know what they like, and what they need to enhance their experience. They will generally not be spending more than a sub. Mostly one-time purchases or something around $5 per month
-Cash shop regulars: Mostly players that want to get all they can out of the game, but won't play months in a row, generally bursts of a few days or weeks, many times a burst of play preceeded by a cash shop purchase
-Subcribers: The key to freemium, is that a subscribtion is also possible. Those who tried it and liked it, and expect they will hang around for a long time to come, and want to experience everything the game has to offer, will generally buy a sub. Subscribers can also occasionally buy in the cash shop, but it's pretty insignificant
-fans&whales:The true moneybags for the system. They'll sub and buy everything they can on the cashshop. They really don't care what they spend, and lot's of times, it's even a status symbol to them to be able to show off what they've got.
So, to say Freemium will cost you more than a P2P game, is inacurate. Those that pay less, don't mind that they don't get the same content, those that pay more don't mind that they pay. The developer gets payed, the players get what they want, everybody happy. The only ones not happy, are those who used to sub, and can't handle the change (even if in most models, verry little actually changes if you'd stay subbed).
As for validity of everything i've said above. All i can say is that at one point or another, i've been playing as one of those player types(except for whale, though i knew people who flaunted it enough to understand how they think) over different games, had friends there from each of the types. And in each occasion, i felt i got my money's worth. More importantly, i never felt i was paying for crap that i wasn't interested in.
Originally posted by Sicae Originally posted by William12 Originally posted by MMOman101 People are cheap and want something for nothing. Many games needed a better free trial.
Goes for everyone. Human nature.
I think they are still trying to figure out which model works best for the western market. Overall we dont like pay to win. We dont like being nickle and dimed to death. Some of the best models I have seen are ones that let you play a decent portion of the game then start nickle and diming you AND offer a subscription fee to unlock everything.
The problem the market is running into is not the payment models really. Its all of these AAA titles that are comming out and arent verry good. Players are getting jaded by all of the broken promises and lies from developers. Free to play allows a person to try the game before spending any money on it. You can thank all of the trash WoW clones the last decade for F2P becomming so popular in the western market.
Originally posted by dave6660 Originally posted by Ginaz Theres a lot of people that can't afford to sub to more than one MMO, or even to one MMO, and therefore the f2p option looks attractive. I also think so many people have pirated (meaning stole) so many games, music and movies over the years that they feel they shouldn't have to pay for it now.
If I did not personally know a couple people with that attitude I would never believe that statement. Welcome to the entitlement generation.