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[Column] General: Wanting MMO Failure



  • GruntiesGrunties Worcester, MAPosts: 859Member

    I want almost all games to succeed save two very big and important exceptions:

    1) Very bad/damaging pricing models or game designs that I do not want to have repeated in future games 

    2) Lying/Criminal/Shady business practices

    So far, the only developers that have really crossed the line in these areas have been Funcom so its really their latest 2 mmos that I have drawn issue to. You can bet though if other mmos went the same route I would take a similar stance against them.

    People have been complaining about WoW clones on these forums for years. Well why do you think there were WoW clones in the first place? Because developers see a successful model and they try to replicate it. Well guess what happens when a bad game or corrupt company has success? Many years of others repeating what they did. For someone that isn't shortsighted, the problems with this are clear. 

    Waiting for: A skill-based MMO with Freedom and Consequence.
    Woe to thee, the pierce-ed.

  • crysentcrysent cedar rapids, IAPosts: 841Member Uncommon

    To many companies now make MMOs that are like Frogster - these strange, non-imaginative MMOs with subpar graphics pop onto the market every other week, have some strange cash shop and exist almost soley to make a quick buck.


    I absolutly want these to fail, these companies are shady at best and downright deceptive at worst.  The games themselves are usually awful in nearly every aspect, I don't want these games/companies to succeed.

  • KarazulKarazul Sao PauloPosts: 39Member Common

    Agree with the article.

    Never wanted a game to fail. I hate the game WoW became (easy mode, dailies, LFR, etc) but I never wanted Blizzard to fail as a company. Like someone said, I just cancealed my subscription and started playing an inovative game.

    On the other hand, I really hope that some games succeed on the industry, so we can have more options. I love TSW and GW2 style, and will play both. Strongly hope they succeed.

    Just to complement, I liked what FUNCON did with TSW... Its new and its hard because they were not only thinking about the money. TSW is not a game for everyone and they knew it. Diversity is king and I am tired of 90% of the WoW Fantasy MMOs out there. But I don't want them to fail!
  • Superman0XSuperman0X San Jose, CAPosts: 1,918Member Uncommon

    Lets combine a few good phrases:


    The only thing sure in life is death... and taxes.

    A broken clock is right twice a day.


    It is very easy to prophesize that every game is going to fail.... because it is eventually going to happen... and if you do this for every game, you are bound to be right some of the time. Then they can always reference the time that they were right (while ignoring the times that they were not). Everyone likes to be right... right?

  • KuppaKuppa Boulder, COPosts: 3,292Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by Lethality
    For me, wanting a game to fail is attached to simlply disagreeing with design decisions or execution, and not wanting success to be a roadmap for future games (which it would stand to reason I would also not like!)  

    I too feel the same. Fail is a strong word though, maybe too strong.


    I wont mince words, I feel the GW2 model is the gaming anti-christ, atleast one of the signs. I hate the business model far more than the gameplay itself. 


    I shudder at a future when buying gold in my mmorpg is the norm instead of the outlier. When an mmorpg is collection of games in a box without a cohesive one world design. When hype sells 2.4 million boxes at launch and solid innovative play sells less than 500k at launch. When "give me now" trumps earning an reward. When all of this is a raging sucess. 






    Interesting I see the buying a box, having a sub and a cash shop closer to the "anti-christ".


    On topic. Its hard to want a game to fail, at most you want a certain aspect of it to be shun upon. Maybe its something in the gameplay or the price model. It could be a number of things, but wanting a game to fail is not something Ive come accross.



  • MueslinatorMueslinator AugsburgPosts: 78Member

    I think it is a cop out to reduce "wanting a game to fail" to the human factor. Yes, it is regrettable that sometimes, people are laid off. But do I have to wish every game well and pay for it so that this doesn't happen?

    That's guilt-tripping me into paying for and playing games I don't want. I am not responsible for the livelihoods of game devs, sorry.

    Take a look at SW: TOR. I wanted that game to be good. I pre-ordered the CE, I took leave when it came out, I was passionate about it. I even used to hang around their forums and voice productive, concise feedback to the topics I knew enough about to have an educated talk about. Only, there never was talk. There ever only was monologue.

    And I'm not saying that I'm special and that BW should have done what I said. But there were hundreds, maybe thousands of people on their forums mirroring my sentiments about concerns with the game.

    Bioware did not listen, and ultimately, this is (part of) why SW: TOR is now going f2p. Because yes, we are not game designers for the most part. But we are gamers. We usually know what works or doesn't work in our hobby. And as showcased in that Wilson/Brevik stunt: The industry detaches itself more and more from the common gamer.


    And that leaves the 'informed decision' when I 'want' a game to fail to a simple check: Do I want the characteristics of that game to be perpetuated in the industry?

    Take a look at WoW (imo a great game in its time) and what it has done to the industry as a whole. Sometimes I wish that WoW hadn't been so successful - I think we would have a few more interesting MMORPGs to play instead of one uninspired WoW-alike after the other.


    Also think about the working conditions of developers. Brevik in his infamous interview hinted at it: Being a game developer nowadays means that you either have success or you get replaced. Is that a climate we want to foster?

  • timtracktimtrack StockholmPosts: 474Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vyeth
    Good games like the chronicles of spellborne, Matrix Online and Tabula Rasa were wayy before their time and people called for their heads all the time.. Seeing those games shut down and all those jobs liquidated helps no one.. Not the industry, not the genre, not the consumers.. It only further helps the guy with the big wallet realize that MMO's are NOT the future and cannot be dependant on support from its fans (SWTOR was a big check in this category because not even star wars fans could keep that game afloat, which is partly what they were relying on)

    The most interesting thing here is that none of those games were anywhere near wow-clones (ok i can't really speak for MO, but the other 2 i played extensively). Both TR and TCoS were unique quality-games that got knocked out in round 1, just like many of the actual WoW-clones did. There have been a good bunch of games around since WoW, both clones and not-so-much-clones, and none of them came close to even meeting a guy who once pet a cat whose owner once saw a picture of a guy who heard a story about the throne.


    The major force in play here is indeed time, and TR and TCoS where, as you say, before their time, while others were to late. You cannot dethrone WoW. It's time simply has to run out. Making 1000 wow-clones won't change that fact. Making 1000 non-WoW-clones wont change that fact. WoW had perfect timing, and that's the most important factor to it's success. Only recently is WoW truly getting old, running out of time. It will still be around for years to come, but it's starting to get sour and smell.


    I think we are quite close to a shift in this little universe of ours. Tension has been building up for some time now and the bubble is about to burst. Exactly what will happen is impossible to predict. But it will happen... soon.

  • dageezadageeza london, KYPosts: 578Member

    I certainly dont want to see any major AAA games fail mostly due to the loss of employment involved however i have become quite good at successfully predicting failure based on certain red flags surrounding both the publisher and dev alike..

    MMO failure in the end cant be blamed on the gamer or the critics but can almost always be attributed to poor and or clone design principles along with better (or at least percieved as better) games that have or are releasing soon..

    Times are changing and the stubborn mindset of the $15 a month dinosaur clone will only lead to extinction and perhaps if these greed first driven companies cant deliver a fully loaded worthwhile product then we will watch natural selection take its course and new gamer friendly empires arise..

    Playing GW2..

  • MsGamerladyMsGamerlady Mmoville, INPosts: 181Member Uncommon
    Personally I don't wait for any game to fail. It's not in my nature to hold grudges when things don't work as well as I'd like in the way of game mechanics. I find it distasteful to write up long rants about the whys and wherefores when it comes to post game-play angst. When a game sucks ( and we've had some doozies lately) I only tell the game company as constructively as I can as to why I've quit. I also refuse to give attention to folk who insist on chest beating to try to get folk to agree with them.  I agree with the OP, I don't think "wanting" a game or company to fail is a good thing. 


  • ReizlaReizla 3,942Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by volvoxaureus
    DS9 is not boring !!

    Nope. I actually think it was the best ST series ever...

    AsRock 990FX Extreme3
    AMD Phenom II 1090T ~3.2Ghz
    GEiL 16Gb DDR3 1600Mhz
    MSI GTX970 GAMING 4Gb + 2x HD monitor 1920x1080

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by DarLorkar Like everything else.. money talks in the end. Dev's get caught up in the end and have to decide how they will choose. Stay true to the dream or cash out.

    "Stay true to the dream" sure sounds easy, if you don't have kids to feed.

    All creative types get to deal with this decision, at some point.  Pretty principles or a paycheck.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • LethalJaxxLethalJaxx NijmegenPosts: 105Member
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by Lethality
    For me, wanting a game to fail is attached to simlply disagreeing with design decisions or execution, and not wanting success to be a roadmap for future games (which it would stand to reason I would also not like!)  

    I too feel the same. Fail is a strong word though, maybe too strong.


    I wont mince words, I feel the GW2 model is the gaming anti-christ, atleast one of the signs. I hate the business model far more than the gameplay itself. 


    I shudder at a future when buying gold in my mmorpg is the norm instead of the outlier. When an mmorpg is collection of games in a box without a cohesive one world design. When hype sells 2.4 million boxes at launch and solid innovative play sells less than 500k at launch. When "give me now" trumps earning an reward. When all of this is a raging sucess. 






    Your hate for GW2 obviously stems from resentment. Because you believe TSW should have gotten the popularity GW2 has.

  • tuppe99tuppe99 Dark side of the moonPosts: 278Member Uncommon
    I never want a game to fail. But sometimes developers are so arrogant that they need to be brought down a notch. Especially when they tout a game as the next best thing, while refusing to listen to their fanbase.

    Like a co-op game that is advertised as the next generation MMO. You know which game I am talking about and it was essential for it to fail to prevent the wrong message being sent to future developers.
  • Agnostic42Agnostic42 That place, Overthere, WAPosts: 405Member Uncommon
    Psychopathy (/sa??k?p??i/[1][2] from the Ancient Greek ???? "psyche", -soul, mind and ?????, "pathos" -suffering, disease, condition[3][4]) is a personality disorder that has been variously described as characterized by shallow emotions (in particular reduced fear), stress tolerance, lacking empathy, coldheartedness, lacking guilt, egocentricity, superficial charm, manipulativeness, irresponsibility, nonplanfulness, impulsivity, and antisocial behaviors such as parasitic lifestyle and criminality.
    Simply put: People love to see suffering and pain as a form of amusement. If somebody is not failing, we are not succeeding.

    I am not claiming everyone who dislikes a game to be a psycho, not by a long shot. But those who find the pain, misery and suffering of others delightful and lack the emotional ability to place themselves in a sympathetic role in regards to that pain and misery, need to start thinking about their psyche profile. It's not healthy.
  • JaedorJaedor Denver, COPosts: 1,171Member Uncommon

    Scary is very scary. I was horrified to read Scary's arguments.

    I get it that it takes all kinds of people to make a world and Scary lives in it. But I am ever so glad I don't have to hang out with him.

  • DragonantisDragonantis DublinPosts: 974Member Uncommon
    People enjoy MMO's, but not as much as watching that same MMO fall and die. Kinda like watching a drama, it only gets exciting when someone dies.
  • ZekiahZekiah Posts: 2,483Member Uncommon
    MMO financial success determines the future of MMO design so why would anyone wish success on a game design, system or mechanics they don't like only to see more of them in the future?

    I'd like to see all Themeparks die a horrible death personally.

    "Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  • DragonantisDragonantis DublinPosts: 974Member Uncommon
    MoP your floors, throw your garbade into the Rift and then you have lots of time to play GW2.
  • PsychowPsychow SF Giants Territory, CAPosts: 1,784Member
    Wanting MMOs to fail is about as cool as wanting the neighbors kid to forget his lines and start crying on stage during the school play. Way to go champ.

    If you aren't rooting for success, just shut up and keep flipping yourself off in the mirror each morning you douche...
  • OzmodanOzmodan Hilliard, OHPosts: 8,291Member Rare
    Here is a good example, headline on the page, TERA $14.99 until Aug 28th? WTF? The game does not even rate a subscription let alone actually buying it. The game fits the f2p mold and until the developers face that reality, they deserve the scorn they are getting.

    SWTOR, another example of an extremely overhyped game that failed miserably to live up to expectations. Sorry for those that failed to see that, but it was quite obvious to many of us it was a very badly designed game.

    As long as developers continue to generate these boring theme park designs that offer little or no continuity for continued play, why would anyone want them to succeed? Why reinforce what is recognized as a bad design?
  • RocknissRockniss Youngstown, OHPosts: 1,034Member
    Wow this is pathetic. First of all if you want to work in an industry the world does not need, then this is what you face. Secondly if the game is crap then tell the world about it, do not cover it up for others to find out on thier own. Third if your going to produce crap games then you already know your going to catch heat.

    This is freaking video games not life or death!!!!

    Want to give a shout out to Swtor for sucking too btw
  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 21,834Member Epic
    Originally posted by Icewhite

    Originally posted by Zooce

    Where the kisses are hers and hers and his...  (And apparently, those young'uns who were teens in the 90s.)


    Oh i know that show ; )
  • JimmyYOJimmyYO Columbus, OHPosts: 519Member Uncommon
    People want MMO's to fail because of obvious stupid decisions in which they deserve to fail. If I could push a button that made every themepark WoW clone fail for the next hundred years I would push it but luckily they are tanking without me.

    Games with overly greedy business models deserve to fail. Games that ignore the playerbase deserve to fail. Games with endgame as an afterthought deserve to fail. Games lacking smooth gameplay at launch deserve to fail. etc. etc.

    The above reasons are why pretty much every MMO after WoW has failed. Until these companies start truly thinking for themselves they are doomed to chase 5% of WoW's market and even failing in that regard.

    And No, games like Tera having a unique combat system and almost every other aspect of the game is a bad WoW imitation does not count as innovation. You can tell if a company is trying to clone WoW with a single screenshot nowadays, that's how bad it is and yes GW2 is a part of this.

  • cheyanecheyane EarthPosts: 4,366Member Rare
    Deep Space 9 was great. Any series that gave birth to characters like Dukat and the multifaceted Elim Garak is winner in my book.
  • Paradigm68Paradigm68 New York, NYPosts: 890Member Uncommon
    There are valid reasons for wanting a game to fail.

    Let's say an MMO is made of your favorite ip, but you think the game sucks. You know that the only way to get another shot at your favorite ip being made into a better game is if the current one fails.

    Let's say there are trends or dynamics you feel are ruining MMO's, like heavy instancing, focusing on singleplayer storytelling to the detriment of community. You know that they only way for these trends to go away are if the games using them fail.
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