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Diablo creator speaks out...has Blizzard arrogance reached new heights?

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  • ZooceZooce B, FLPosts: 586Member
    Originally posted by xenogias

     The response from Blizzard employee's who did work on D3 where verry unprofessional.   http://i.imgur.com/mVhWE.png (NSFW!) Thoes are some of the responces he got. Thoes people are lucky they are not my employees. They wouldnt have a job right now. Personal attacks on someone who gave an opinion in a, shall we say nice? way is not tollerated in most professional companies. Thats why I think its not over. Blizzard may not make games the way they used to but thoes comments are being talked about in the gaming community and it doesnt look good for Blizzard.

     

    Edit: My personal favorite is them trashing him for making hellgate:london. An easy cheapshot response is simply "Yea I made that. And you made D3 with a budget 100x the size I had. Whats your excuse?"

    Interesting how the cover-up is progressing:  https://www.facebook.com/chris.haga.9/posts/419226154780096

     

    Thread on d3 forums - Ignoring Jay Wilsons facebook post.

  • AtmaDarkwolfAtmaDarkwolf Edmonton, ABPosts: 353Member

    You do realize it don't matter, right? That companies(Blizzard being one of the largest right now) will continue to 'churn' out games which sell before they even become real(Many people decides to buy d3 before it was even 1/3 though development, once they heard it was being made, that was enough)

     

    People are (no offense) stupid. We can't help it. When we make a decision, sometimes nothing can change that choice. Blizzard will continue to use what they gained from the inspired people that have walked in(And out) thier doors over the years, and continue to sweep in the cash. EA does it, bioware(whos ea now) did it, why is it so 'wrong' that blizzard does it. What I mean is, they, all the large souless game 'producing' companies, are heartless, cash hungry, greedy bastards, run by people who only understand one single thing, yet understand that one thing to an almost zen like quality; How to get more money than we have now!

     

    We are bound to see many many more 'dead' but shiny games and one or 2 with soul that MAY survive. Big companies will continue to take from thier employee's then toss them out on thier ass right after. And we as buyers(ALL of us) are all going to, some day, make a stupid choice which makes one of these companies richer. Life goes on.

  • ZezdaZezda Posts: 685Member Uncommon

    This quote here from Peet from the facebook comments basically sums things up nicely.

     

     

    Peet Cooper - I agree with you both. But he never said we made a bad game. Just a different one than what he would have made. I worked on the game for 5 years and I would not be offended (or surprised) if one of the original D1 or D2 artists said we did 

    not 'understand' the artistic direction of the franchise. We made drastic changes to many aspects of the game, so its inevitable that some will love it and other will hate it. This happens every time a new team works on an old franchise.
     
  • Ramonski7Ramonski7 Aurora, ILPosts: 2,656Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kost
    Originally posted by expresso
    David Brevik concived Hellgate London (nuff said) and has bouned around half a dozen studios since blizzard north, he's only ever had sucess while under the nurturing arms of Blizzard - as soon as he can prove himself and a competent developer who does not need his hand held then we might pay attention, right now he's just like one of us who all think we can do better.  Not to say D3 blew me away but I enjoyed some 50 hours in that game.

    The nurturing arms of Blizzard?

    Dave Brevik created two genre-redefining, award winning games that sparked a fanatical fanbase willing to wait twelve years just for the next installment in the series. He is a large part of the reason that Blizzard are who they are today, to say he has never done anything noteworthy is simply ignorant, to say the least.

    He nurtured THEM during his time with the company, not the other way around.

    So why wasn't he able to repeat his winning formula when he had several opportunities? I'll give you a hint...you cannot win a war with generals alone. He had talent backing up his vision. Not a half dozen, more like a few hundred. I've said this before about people thinking a handful of people are responsible for the success of D1 and D2. And to them I say this:

    Go back and review the credits after you finsh and tell me if you only see a handful of staff listed.

    No? I thought not. A handful of visionaries may offer a direction on a project, but they are NOT the ones in the trenches and giving feedback about what works and what does not. And it seems to me that Mr. Brevik yet again conveniently forgot about the little people involved. And you know what? I don't blame them one bit for the remarks they made.

    They are NOT PR coached into making proper responses when they've be openly attacked for something (no matter how you nor I feel about it) they worked so hard on. So when they do respond you get raw emotions over carefully worded responses. They are real working people, not hindsighted armed, former top brass with an axe to grind. And don't get me wrong, I thank Mr. Brevik for his contribution to the development of D1 and D2, but let's not forget a contribution is NOT the same thing as a pledge. As the latter requires a certain level of good faith and honor.

    image
    "Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

  • Bushi131Bushi131 of angelsPosts: 62Member

    Like the guyz in Wallstreet thinks that consumers are morons because now they don't buy things as much as they should, those righteous bastards.

    Same for D3, maker or producers, whomever had a finger into it is righteous and the gamers /customers are just spoiled idiots.

    It's still hurt me that I bought this game and each clic make me work for them ....

    I'm on the lookout for activision product, I check everything before to buy a game now, and even it might be a good game, with a bad company behind, i won't buy it, nether for my kids, i try to spread the word as well to friends and familly.

     

    Everybody should do the same actually, keep your money away from bad people, even they might sel good stuff, don't suck it.

  • ReklawReklaw Am.Posts: 6,476Member Uncommon

    Update #2: A few hours later Gazilli0n issued IncGamers with a statement reading

    “We admire Blizzard and Blizzard games. David was asked about Diablo 3 and gave his honest opinion and we stand by him 100%. Marvel Heroes is David’s vision and is the spiritual successor to Diablo 2. We’ll be in closed beta soon, so visit MarvelHeroes.com if you want to check it out.” – Leo Olebe, VP Marketing Gazillion Entertainment.

    Think Diablo fans might need to be looking out for MarvelHeroes?? image

    On the other hand most sequel games turn out different compared to it's original, especially if the original development team is long gone. Some for the better, unfortunaly many for the worst.

  • azmundaiazmundai St Louis, MOPosts: 1,417Member

    i think it's great. with all of the paid reviews going on it's nice to have someone with some actual weight express something other than blind passion.

    of course if he is the only one they will just shrug it off as disgruntled .. and keep whistling to themselves as if nothing is wrong .. but at least it's a start.

    LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
    I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already :)

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Reklaw

    Update #2: A few hours later Gazilli0n issued IncGamers with a statement reading

    “We admire Blizzard and Blizzard games. David was asked about Diablo 3 and gave his honest opinion and we stand by him 100%. Marvel Heroes is David’s vision and is the spiritual successor to Diablo 2. We’ll be in closed beta soon, so visit MarvelHeroes.com if you want to check it out.” – Leo Olebe, VP Marketing Gazillion Entertainment.

    Think Diablo fans might need to be looking out for MarvelHeroes?? image

    On the other hand most sequel games turn out different compared to it's original, especially if the original development team is long gone. Some for the better, unfortunaly many for the worst.

    I don't understand all the hate. D3 is a very fun game and many people have hundreds of hours into it.

    Oh, i will definitely look out for Marvel Heroes. Most certainly i will play since it is F2P.

  • freegamesfreegames san gabriel, CAPosts: 158Member

    Diablo 3 was a success for the Blizzard-Activision, but a failure for gamers.

     

    Marvel Heroes looks okay, but with DC universe online competiting I sure hope it is small and easy to play. (not a fan of mmos that are 20-50 gigs and you play for 2-5 hours for the most part) Also hope there isnt some bs stuff like friend bonuses forcing you to team up or you will always lose.

     

    Wish there would only be 4 player instances for some quests and at most 12 players for world events.

     

    Even though it is called marvel heroes there should at least be some DLC or something that adds villians. (minimum 8) later on. MMMMmmmm City of Heroes vs Villians

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Manchester, NHPosts: 2,926Member Uncommon

    I hate the defense of people like Jay Wilson regarding the number of boxes sold.   Yeah it was a great seller, but it didn't sell that money because of Jay Wilson, it sold that many because it was Diablo freaking 3.  It's retention after one month was horrible and they will be hard pressed to sell nearly that many expansion boxes unless they fix everything.

     

    It's unprofessional on both sides though really.  But if my team got kicked off of the franchise we made popular, I'd be pretty bitter too.

     

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by FrodoFragins

    I hate the defense of people like Jay Wilson regarding the number of boxes sold.   Yeah it was a great seller, but it didn't sell that money because of Jay Wilson, it sold that many because it was Diablo freaking 3.  It's retention after one month was horrible and they will be hard pressed to sell nearly that many expansion boxes unless they fix everything.

     

    It's unprofessional on both sides though really.  But if my team got kicked off of the franchise we made popular, I'd be pretty bitter too.

     

    Retention? It is a box game. People finished it and moved on.

  • PurutzilPurutzil East Stroudsburg, PAPosts: 2,924Member Uncommon

    Simply put, those who made Diablo 3 did not understand a single thing as to why people liked Diablo 2 and other games of the genre. Taking stuff out and 'dumbing' down the game does NOT make more people want to play it, it makes less want to play it. People liked Diablo 2 a lot with the ability to make builds and design their character as they level and progress them. Sure, the system wasn't flawless (Stats were pretty useless putting them in, granted it still felt satisfying, was pretty much a 'just to get a piece of gear' investment) but it let people feel more connected to a character. Diablo 3 I feel no connection to my character at all. I hit 60 and thats really all she wrote. 

     

    While prestige will help a little with the 'progress', it still just doesn't feel the same. Making things ultra casual doesn't get  more players. Sure you can get a larger population willing to try it starting off, but in the end you will have far less as your retention rate will be far less. 

     

    The creator of diablo really feels the game betrayed what made diablo, diablo. Even if he wasn't working on it, I'm sure he would of been happy if the game itself had been done right, but instead its so twisted that he frankly isn't happy with it. Its like giving your faovrite stuffed animal to a friend and watching them rip its arm off and damage its button eyes and you can only stand and watch in distaste as they destroy, even if its unintentional.

  • SteamRangerSteamRanger Great Northwest, WAPosts: 920Member Uncommon

    Hellgate: London is a good game, what there is of it. The big mistake Flagship made with it was trying to do too much at once. A single-player focus with LAN mode would have given the game a solid player base, provided they could keep Bill Roper from spending so much of the budget on PR tours. Plus there was the whole "using your game assets as collateral with foreign investors" thing.

    Had they done like Runic did with Torchlight, HG: L would have a couple of expansions under their belts by now. Flagship just tried to do too much too soon.

    "Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II
    "People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,255Member Uncommon
    I mean hey, can somebody at least explain what the main problem is with D3?

    image

  • PsychowPsychow SF Giants Territory, CAPosts: 1,784Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by FrodoFragins

    I hate the defense of people like Jay Wilson regarding the number of boxes sold.   Yeah it was a great seller, but it didn't sell that money because of Jay Wilson, it sold that many because it was Diablo freaking 3.  It's retention after one month was horrible and they will be hard pressed to sell nearly that many expansion boxes unless they fix everything.

     

    It's unprofessional on both sides though really.  But if my team got kicked off of the franchise we made popular, I'd be pretty bitter too.

     

    Retention? It is a box game. People finished it and moved on.

     

    Logic and reason are not allowed in Anti-Blizzard propaganda threads!

     

    LEARN THE RULES! image

  • kalrhaelkalrhael Boston, MAPosts: 87Member

    Okay, skimmed through the posts, read the article, and looked at the image... I don't see anything wrong with what he said, he basically just said he would of done a few things more differently, big woop. 

     

    People are overly sensitive and overreacting... There are more important things to worry about then the fragile egos of game designers. 

     

    All in all not worth wasting 5 minutes on any of this stuff... moving on.  

  • kalrhaelkalrhael Boston, MAPosts: 87Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by FrodoFragins

    I hate the defense of people like Jay Wilson regarding the number of boxes sold.   Yeah it was a great seller, but it didn't sell that money because of Jay Wilson, it sold that many because it was Diablo freaking 3.  It's retention after one month was horrible and they will be hard pressed to sell nearly that many expansion boxes unless they fix everything.

     

    It's unprofessional on both sides though really.  But if my team got kicked off of the franchise we made popular, I'd be pretty bitter too.

     

    Retention? It is a box game. People finished it and moved on.

    Yea, It's scary that people expected a dungeon crawlyer to have any sort of logevity. They're basically mindless action games, you're not going to get much brain stimulation in that, but it's good stuff for teenagers. 

     

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by MMOExposed
    I mean hey, can somebody at least explain what the main problem is with D3?

    Fudamentally .. nothing. But it has problems when it was first released:

    1) server down-time .. purely technological .. and no excuse

    2) horrible AH interface design (worse offender, only can search 3 stat, and cannot search on DPS for offhand) .. fixed in 1.04

    3) inferno normal mobs too easy, elite/champ too difficult (elite/champ nerfed in many patches and some more in 1.04)

    4) legendaries not useful .. fixed in 1.04

    5) no end-game (personally i don't think it needs one since it is no a MMO) .. fixed in 1.04 (i am pretty happy to have more levling).

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by kalrhael

    Okay, skimmed through the posts, read the article, and looked at the image... I don't see anything wrong with what he said, he basically just said he would of done a few things more differently, big woop. 

     

    People are overly sensitive and overreacting... There are more important things to worry about then the fragile egos of game designers. 

     

    All in all not worth wasting 5 minutes on any of this stuff... moving on.  

    yeah ...

    but i would like to see how he will do with Marvel Heroes, and how well that game turns out.

  • VhalnVhaln Chicago, ILPosts: 3,159Member

     

    Do you agree...feel free to post opinions.

     

    Yeah, I agree completely.  We see this all the time, IP sequels which seem inexplicably far from what made them great in the first place.  Maybe decent in their own way, usually not, but either way, missing what made the original games.

     

    Seems a lot of people still fail to grasp that it's the talent behind the IP that makes it what it is - and that talent is all too often inexplicably absent from sequels.  I don't know if its because they're considered disposable by the big business they work for, or if they've simply moved on in one way or another, but yeah, of course those people are vital to an IP living up to its name.

    When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  • kol56kol56 gbfbfg, KYPosts: 124Member

    Dave Brevik was too kind, Diablo 3 was a POS.

    Unlike Diablo 1 & 2, who had more than 56 people playing after 3 months.

    "Dogs are the leaders of the planet. If you see two life forms, one of them's making a poop, the other one's carrying it for him, who would you assume is in charge."

    "The idea behind the tuxedo is the woman's point of view that men are all the same; so we might as well dress them that way. That's why a wedding is like the joining together of a beautiful, glowing bride and some guy"
    -Seinfeld

  • VhalnVhaln Chicago, ILPosts: 3,159Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Retention? It is a box game. People finished it and moved on.

     

    Sure, but people seem to have moved on exceptionally fast, this time around.  It's an indication of customer satisfaction, and how likely people are to buy an expansion, Diablo IV, or whatever else Blizzard does next.  It's terribly short-sighted to think it doesn't matter, just because there's no subscription involved.

    When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Webster, MAPosts: 4,813Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by kalrhael

    Okay, skimmed through the posts, read the article, and looked at the image... I don't see anything wrong with what he said, he basically just said he would of done a few things more differently, big woop. 

     

    People are overly sensitive and overreacting... There are more important things to worry about then the fragile egos of game designers. 

     

    All in all not worth wasting 5 minutes on any of this stuff... moving on.  

    yeah ...

    but i would like to see how he will do with Marvel Heroes, and how well that game turns out.

    Sad to say I saw how bad D3 was going to be early on and avoided it like the plauge, Marvel Heroes on the other hand I'm actually looking forward to at least to some extent. Unlike D3 it looks like it actually has some potential. 

     

    As far as worrying about what Jay said... lol He's simply throwing a tantrum because even other developers are saying what players have been saying. Coming from the original team just made it hurt more. 

  • JeroKaneJeroKane OsloPosts: 5,353Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by kalrhael
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by FrodoFragins

    I hate the defense of people like Jay Wilson regarding the number of boxes sold.   Yeah it was a great seller, but it didn't sell that money because of Jay Wilson, it sold that many because it was Diablo freaking 3.  It's retention after one month was horrible and they will be hard pressed to sell nearly that many expansion boxes unless they fix everything.

     

    It's unprofessional on both sides though really.  But if my team got kicked off of the franchise we made popular, I'd be pretty bitter too.

     

    Retention? It is a box game. People finished it and moved on.

    Yea, It's scary that people expected a dungeon crawlyer to have any sort of logevity. They're basically mindless action games, you're not going to get much brain stimulation in that, but it's good stuff for teenagers. 

     

    Ehh if that was the design intention of the game, then

    Why did Blizzard made the game online only, with multiplayer, armory, etc?

    Why is Blizzard continueing to patch the game?

    Why did Blizzard bother with an Auction House?

    Why did they even put so much effort into a Real Money Auction House?

    Why are they going to bother to spend time and money to add PVP to the game?

     

    So.... I think it's you and your previous poster that has lost a little logic here.

    They very much intended this game to have longetivity to bank on RMAH sales, future expansion sales, etc!

     

  • laseritlaserit Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,943Member Uncommon

    I like how they are bragging on facebook about how they had the biggest selling game, but are too arrogant to realize that those sales are mostly due to the reputation of the two preceeding games in the series.

    Jay Wilson? Is he the dick who monetized the game?

    Way to destroy a franchise Jay

     

    "If you make an ass out of yourself, there will always be someone to ride you." - Bruce Lee

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