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Trinity-It's in our blood

gieger808gieger808 Winston-Salem, NCPosts: 165Member

So I haven't played any of the beta, but from the footage I've seen, there IS a trinity. Lots of classes (if not all) have a healing and tanking "spec".  As I watch some of the dungeon running I see people falling into those roles. 

It really caught my attention during a run PC Gamer did. I don't have the Youtube link handy, but you could probably find it.

 

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Comments

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    There arent. You can spec more for support but you dont need to, also you cant classify it as 'healing' because 90% of healing comes from self healing, or 'tanking' because you cannot control aggro.
  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by gieger808

    So I haven't played any of the beta, but from the footage I've seen, there IS a trinity. Lots of classes (if not all) have a healing and tanking "spec".  As I watch some of the dungeon running I see people falling into those roles. 

    It really caught my attention during a run PC Gamer did. I don't have the Youtube link handy, but you could probably find it.

     

    check out my sig under Hot Topics talks about trinity in a few of them

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • DrachasorDrachasor Columbus, OHPosts: 2,678Member
    Originally posted by gieger808

    So I haven't played any of the beta, but from the footage I've seen, there IS a trinity. Lots of classes (if not all) have a healing and tanking "spec".  As I watch some of the dungeon running I see people falling into those roles. 

    It really caught my attention during a run PC Gamer did. I don't have the Youtube link handy, but you could probably find it.

     

    Err, then you saw wrong.

    First, everyone has a main healing ability.  It heals them for more than what others could do and has a significant cooldown.  Some of these healing abilities also provide secondary healing to others, but again, a large cooldown.  There are some other things that provide a little bit of healing to others as well, but again, that's just a little.  You certainly can't take on a healing role and spam heals, even if you focus on providing secondary healing as much as you can.

    You can up your defense, but without any aggro controls, you can't tank.  Heck, you don't want to be tanking.  You want to be moving around and avoiding damage because you can avoid getting hit with movement.

    The Devs had said repeatedly, and there have been beta testers who have backed this up (from what I recall), that if you attempt to use HT tactics on any content that's remotely difficult, then you'll do badly.  The game just isn't designed with HT in mind, and HT needs a TON of groundwork and mechanics to work.  Abilities have to be there on all characters, monsters have to be designed a certain way, etc, etc.  GW2 doesn't have that.

    That doesn't mean that it isn't a good idea to have some group synergy when doing hard content with others.  You'll probably want a certain amount of control and support, for instance.  Thing is, anyone can do this.  If say you have 5 people and need 30% support, then you can literally split that up between all 5 people without a problem.  Heck, some abilities are mixtures of support and control.  There's nothing that forces specialization, and any specialization you aim for is going to be tightly constrained by the game mechanics (in that it seems like damage, for instance, is going to be an important for everyone to contribute, for instance, and I don't think any weapons are all damage, so everyone has to bring a ltitle utility with them).

  • IlayaIlaya BochumPosts: 412Member Uncommon

    Yap!

    Lots of very interesting Videos to find there. Nearly freaking everything is explained there piece by piece.

    image

    I think when you have watched all the videos and have still questions, then you have to wait for the Release to get yourself the answers you might need  image

  • itgrowlsitgrowls newport news, VAPosts: 2,951Member
    Originally posted by gieger808

    So I haven't played any of the beta, but from the footage I've seen, there IS a trinity. Lots of classes (if not all) have a healing and tanking "spec".  As I watch some of the dungeon running I see people falling into those roles. 

    It really caught my attention during a run PC Gamer did. I don't have the Youtube link handy, but you could probably find it.

     

    not only does the game not have good aoe healing for support even with points in it, but now that the self healing of the guardians with a shield and mace has been rebalanced, even they won't be able to tank a mob anymore.

  • jmcdermottukjmcdermottuk LiverpoolPosts: 976Member Uncommon

    Erm,  no. All classes have their own heal ability, yes. They don't all have healing that affects others, but some do. They can choose to improve that through traits but it comes nowhere near the amount of healing that your own self heal does.

    You cannot heal someone through a fight, too much incoming damage to cope with, so therefore, no tanks either. Some classes can take a hit better than others but they can't "tank". No class can withstand enough damage to call it tanking.

    There are no aggro tools, no taunts. The AI has it's own rules for who it will attack, the closest person, the one hitting it hardest, someone that pisses it off, which players have no control over.

    Players will change role as they need to and not be stuck in 1 role. You will change from doing damage to controlling a mob with a CC, or (if you can) using support abilities like buffs (boons) or an aoe regen which does a very small amount of healing. No players will fall into a role and stay that role. That's just bad play in GW2's system and it won't lead to success, especially in dungeons.

     

    As someone who has played in a beta weekend, I say the trinity is dead in GW2, it's not in GW2's blood. Square peg in a round hole.

  • DrachasorDrachasor Columbus, OHPosts: 2,678Member
    Originally posted by jmcdermottuk

    As someone who has played in a beta weekend, I say the trinity is dead in GW2, it's not in GW2's blood. Square peg in a round hole.

    Which is something I'm grateful for.  The Trinity is one of the most ludicrous game mechanics I've ever experienced.  And Devs in such games spend all that work enforcing a very artificial game mechanic that isn't even fun or interesting at a base level.

  • Matheusor1Matheusor1 New York, NYPosts: 174Member

    One does not simply tank dungeons in GW2.

    You could have a team with 1 'tank' specced guardian and 4 'healer' specced guardians/elementalists, and they still won't be able to keep the tank alive for more than 15 seconds. Also, you guys would be dealing crap damage.

  • moosecatlolmoosecatlol Boring, TXPosts: 1,174Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Matheusor1

    One does not simply tank dungeons in GW2.

    You could have a team with 1 'tank' specced guardian and 4 'healer' specced guardians/elementalists, and they still won't be able to keep the tank alive for more than 15 seconds. Also, you guys would be dealing crap damage.

    A good level 80 Guardian should be able to generate 2000 healing per second on himself  without the use of his healing skill. Throw in the extra water blasts from the Ele using arcane wave, and you should have no problem tanking with 3500 armor.

    If you really need, you can even use the 20% damage reduction pots that an Artificer can make. Though you can easily get the medium version of these potions in the dungeons themselves.

     

    If you still can't tank as a Guardian you should probably just reroll an Ele.

  • FeridlyinFeridlyin Figaro, MIPosts: 10Member

    The video he is talking about is here.   http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/361283/Level-50-Twilight-Arbor-dungeon-Video.html

     

    The guardian is clearly tanking the boss mobs...  Watch it for yourself rather than listening to what a developer says about a game they want you to spend your money on.  The holy trinity might not be in guild wars 2, but that doesn't mean tanking and healing has gone away completely.

  • Rider071Rider071 Utica, NYPosts: 318Member

    there is no HT, not sure how many times we can say it. it doesn't exist.

    What does exist are skills and abilities built around weapon types, and choices you make beyond that.

    You can literally change your entire spec by switching your weapon, but you can neither be a full healer nor a full tank,

    it just doesn't exist.

    You can take care of yourself though, and support what's going on in doing so.

    You'll just have to play it to understand, and to see the undeniable truth of what people have been claiming when they say it's a dramatic change in game development.

  • seridanseridan ThessalonikiPosts: 1,202Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Feridlyin

    The video he is talking about is here.   http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/361283/Level-50-Twilight-Arbor-dungeon-Video.html

     

    The guardian is clearly tanking the boss mobs...  Watch it for yourself rather than listening to what a developer says about a game they want you to spend your money on.  The holy trinity might not be in guild wars 2, but that doesn't mean tanking and healing has gone away completely.

    And maybe you should PLAY the game instead of judging it from a video

    Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums

  • FeridlyinFeridlyin Figaro, MIPosts: 10Member
    Originally posted by seridan
    Originally posted by Feridlyin

    The video he is talking about is here.   http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/361283/Level-50-Twilight-Arbor-dungeon-Video.html

     

    The guardian is clearly tanking the boss mobs...  Watch it for yourself rather than listening to what a developer says about a game they want you to spend your money on.  The holy trinity might not be in guild wars 2, but that doesn't mean tanking and healing has gone away completely.

    And maybe you should PLAY the game instead of judging it from a video

    Well considering that is a level 50 dungeon, I doubt the majority of the playerbase has even gotten that far.  So how has your play experience in lvl 50 dungeons differed from the video shown? Pray tell, sir.

  • The_KorriganThe_Korrigan EastPosts: 2,630Member
    Have you ever tried to tank something when there's no threat table?

    If you wonder why I don't answer your posts, it's most likely because you are on my block list - so don't waste your time.

    image

  • FeridlyinFeridlyin Figaro, MIPosts: 10Member
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan
    Have you ever tried to tank something when there's no threat table?

    Considering threat is proximity based, I'd imagine you make sure you're the closest one to the enemy? As the guardian did in this video.

  • XAPKenXAPKen Northwest, INPosts: 4,941Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan
    Have you ever tried to tank something when there's no threat table?

    LOL,  Played plenty of games where a bad tank made it look like there was no threat table  image


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now turned Amateur Game Developer.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  Realm Lords 2 on MMORPG.com
  • seridanseridan ThessalonikiPosts: 1,202Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Feridlyin
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan
    Have you ever tried to tank something when there's no threat table?

    Considering threat is proximity based, I'd imagine you make sure you're the closest one to the enemy? As the guardian did in this video.

    That's not how it works. Mobs break aggro easily and attack others, there is no way to keep aggro on yourself. Also about your other question, I did the level 30 dungeon with a Guardian and believe me I never felt like a tank not the least bit.

    Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums

  • The_KorriganThe_Korrigan EastPosts: 2,630Member
    Originally posted by Feridlyin
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan
    Have you ever tried to tank something when there's no threat table?

    Considering threat is proximity based, I'd imagine you make sure you're the closest one to the enemy? As the guardian did in this video.

    Wrong. The mob AI will decide which enemy they will attack, and while the basic dumb animal mob may indeed often attack the closest target, smarter humanoids or other intellingent beings will definitely not do that at all.

    If you wonder why I don't answer your posts, it's most likely because you are on my block list - so don't waste your time.

    image

  • FeridlyinFeridlyin Figaro, MIPosts: 10Member
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan
    Originally posted by Feridlyin
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan
    Have you ever tried to tank something when there's no threat table?

    Considering threat is proximity based, I'd imagine you make sure you're the closest one to the enemy? As the guardian did in this video.

    Wrong. The mob AI will decide which enemy they will attack, and while the basic dumb animal mob may indeed often attack the closest target, smarter humanoids or other intellingent beings will definitely not do that at all.

    Then how is it the guardian in this video is tanking in a level 50 dungeon? I'd imagine by that level the AI would kick in enough to not let that happen, but watch the video. The boss just stands there hitting him.

  • DrachasorDrachasor Columbus, OHPosts: 2,678Member
    Originally posted by Feridlyin
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan
    Have you ever tried to tank something when there's no threat table?

    Considering threat is proximity based, I'd imagine you make sure you're the closest one to the enemy? As the guardian did in this video.

    Even if all threat is proximity-based, that doesn't work if there are other melee in the group.  It's also really stupid to sit still and take hits when you can move around and AVOID hits.  So what you see is someone on an easy dungeon speccing to be able to take a lot of damage, and sacrificing a lot of other things he could be doing.  That sacrifice is going to hurt in tougher situations where you should be avoiding a lot of the damage anyhow and the loss of DPS will be noticed more.

  • atticusbcatticusbc Posts: 1,069Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by gieger808

    So I haven't played any of the beta, but from the footage I've seen, there IS a trinity. Lots of classes (if not all) have a healing and tanking "spec".  As I watch some of the dungeon running I see people falling into those roles. 

    It really caught my attention during a run PC Gamer did. I don't have the Youtube link handy, but you could probably find it.

     

    no guys he's right. there is a trinity. the trinity... is within you. no but seriously. every character is the trinity. they can tank a bit, heal enough, and do good dps. and they all have support skills. you are your own walking group. you can even chat to yourself!

  • FeridlyinFeridlyin Figaro, MIPosts: 10Member
    Originally posted by Drachasor
    Originally posted by Feridlyin
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan
    Have you ever tried to tank something when there's no threat table?

    Considering threat is proximity based, I'd imagine you make sure you're the closest one to the enemy? As the guardian did in this video.

    Even if all threat is proximity-based, that doesn't work if there are other melee in the group.  It's also really stupid to sit still and take hits when you can move around and AVOID hits.  So what you see is someone on an easy dungeon speccing to be able to take a lot of damage, and sacrificing a lot of other things he could be doing.  That sacrifice is going to hurt in tougher situations where you should be avoiding a lot of the damage anyhow and the loss of DPS will be noticed more.

    He's taking significantly less damage than others would take, reducing the stress on them.  He's wearing plate and a shield.  He is causing the boss to focus on him to let the others DPS and Support.. This sounds remarkably familiar. Oh yea, he's a tank.

  • The_KorriganThe_Korrigan EastPosts: 2,630Member
    Originally posted by Feridlyin
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan
    Originally posted by Feridlyin
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan
    Have you ever tried to tank something when there's no threat table?

    Considering threat is proximity based, I'd imagine you make sure you're the closest one to the enemy? As the guardian did in this video.

    Wrong. The mob AI will decide which enemy they will attack, and while the basic dumb animal mob may indeed often attack the closest target, smarter humanoids or other intellingent beings will definitely not do that at all.

    Then how is it the guardian in this video is tanking in a level 50 dungeon? I'd imagine by that level the AI would kick in enough to not let that happen, but watch the video. The boss just stands there hitting him.

    He's not tanking... he's following the mobs because he's melee specced. How the hell do you want him to damage the mobs without being near them?

    If you wonder why I don't answer your posts, it's most likely because you are on my block list - so don't waste your time.

    image

  • gaeanprayergaeanprayer Somewhere Out There, PAPosts: 2,320Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by gieger808

    So I haven't played any of the beta

     

    Stopped reading there.

    "Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

  • FeridlyinFeridlyin Figaro, MIPosts: 10Member
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan
    Originally posted by Feridlyin
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan
    Originally posted by Feridlyin
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan
    Have you ever tried to tank something when there's no threat table?

    Considering threat is proximity based, I'd imagine you make sure you're the closest one to the enemy? As the guardian did in this video.

    Wrong. The mob AI will decide which enemy they will attack, and while the basic dumb animal mob may indeed often attack the closest target, smarter humanoids or other intellingent beings will definitely not do that at all.

    Then how is it the guardian in this video is tanking in a level 50 dungeon? I'd imagine by that level the AI would kick in enough to not let that happen, but watch the video. The boss just stands there hitting him.

    He's not tanking... he's following the mobs because he's melee specced. How the hell do you want him to damage the mobs without being near them?

    Did you watch the boss fights?

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