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World PvP

dyermaker714dyermaker714 Austin, TXPosts: 192Member
GW2 looks incredible to me on all fronts except for one. From what I can tell there is no open world PvP. Now I know (or at least I think I know) that there is some form of non instanced PvP, however, for me, world PvP means being able to traverse through the world with the option to attack any enemy player i see and vice versa. There's nothing more thrilling than getting the jump on someone out in the world or them jumping you and having to think on your feet to survive the attack. This is the greatest fun I take from playing mmos aside from making my character more powerful.
Can anyone shed some light on this subject for me or elaborate on exactly how PvP works in gw2 as well as share your thoughts? Thanks
-Dyer
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Comments

  • MMOheraldMMOherald lakeview, NYPosts: 22Member
    there's no open world pvp. as far as scale, sure WvW is one of the best around and truly impressive and "massive" but it's separated from the main game world.
  • JagaridJagarid West Covina, CAPosts: 415Member

    As the previous person indicated, there is no open world PvP.

    But technically you can do exactly what you stated.  You can attack "any enemy player" when playing through the world but the thing is, there are NO enemy players...  when out in the world, all other players are on the same side as you are.

  • heartlessheartless Brooklyn, NYPosts: 4,993Member
    Originally posted by dyermaker714
    GW2 looks incredible to me on all fronts except for one. From what I can tell there is no open world PvP. Now I know (or at least I think I know) that there is some form of non instanced PvP, however, for me, world PvP means being able to traverse through the world with the option to attack any enemy player i see and vice versa. There's nothing more thrilling than getting the jump on someone out in the world or them jumping you and having to think on your feet to survive the attack. This is the greatest fun I take from playing mmos aside from making my character more powerful. Can anyone shed some light on this subject for me or elaborate on exactly how PvP works in gw2 as well as share your thoughts? Thanks -Dyer

    There are no enemy players in GW2. Everyone put their differences aside and banded together to fight the evil dragons.

    You have 2 types of PvP. One is called Structured PvP and is basically battlegrounds/arena type deal. People can create their own tournaments or just join a random game. The other is World vs World PvP, which takes place in an area called the Mists and is basically 3 servers fighting over a number of huge zones for domination. There are keeps and castles to assault and defend. Supply camps, which have stuff needed to build siege engines and reenforce keeps. Each zone can have about 500 people in it and there are 3 zones, if I remember correctly. World vs World is persistant for 2 weeks after which the servers get paired up with other servers who performed similarly. In other words the winners will be paired up with other winners for the next 2 week battle.

    image

  • Arachneus1Arachneus1 Naugatuck, CTPosts: 248Member

    There is no open world pvp in any server - mainly because their goal of PvP is to keep everything fair.  No level difference as everyone is to be upgraded to level 80.  Perhaps they could downgrade you to the player that your attackings level but that would take a lot of time to implement.  Basically the game isn't built around destroying your own server, its about cooperation with one another and jumping into the server matchup PvP.

    As it is you have Structured PvP which is your basic battleground arena team fights and you have WvWvW.  Three servers (of equally matched skill ratings) go head to head in 4 gigantic maps taking over towers, keeps, supply points and building up trebuchets, catapaults, cannons etc to defend or attack. 

  • GamefunGamefun Mesa, AZPosts: 290Member

    There is no open world pvp in Guild Wars 2. I don't think we will ever see world pvp again in it's truest form. The days of Pking clans against clans in the open world are non existent now days.

  • KrossliteKrosslite Folsom, PAPosts: 317Member

    no the entire game is not open PvP

    but please please read this blog by TemperHoof on the topic before this goes too far.

     

    http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/TemperHoof/072012/23486_Guild-Wars-2-Redefines-Open-World-PVP

     

    He covers this very well and I am not in the mood for a huge debate of the topic again

     

    so I once again beg you PLEASE read it

    A MMO is like life. It is something to cherish and enjoy upon in it journey. So why race to the end of it. In life at the end you die.

  • ThrashbargThrashbarg lions arch, ORPosts: 125Member

    That type of PvP just encourages/enables griefing and ganking and wouldn't work with GW2 game mechanics or lore.

    No one would do DEs because everyone's aoe would kill each other.

    With the elder dragons threatening to eat the whole world and turn everyone into zombie minions, what exactly defines an "enemy player"?

    WvWvW is huge and open to anyone, it has level upscaling but gear and real level do matter as well. So you can beat on newbies a bit if that's your goal, but you'll never be able to oneshot someone for double their health while they are just trying to finish a quest. Plenty of games offer that mode, and their ever dwindiling populations speak to exactly how popular ffa pvp really is.

    The people who want ffa pvp are the same sort of people who destroy their own neighborhood during a riot: confused about life.

    image

  • PrenhoPrenho AracajuPosts: 298Member
    A true clan war, where enemy clans-alliances fight all over the world for territory control, world bosses and political power(via castle sieges), I think only Lineage Eternal(sequel to Lineage 1) will have it.
  • dyermaker714dyermaker714 Austin, TXPosts: 192Member
    @Thrashbarg
    Hmm well I'm not sure that its realistic to say that One's PvP preferences in an MMO are in anyway a reflection of their view or understanding of life. But I AM sure that to make such a ridiculous connection or to even SAY something like that IS a reflection of One's tendency to speak from deep within their rectum..

    Anyway I guess I understand how it wouldn't work well with the way the game is set up. I wonder if ever there will ever be an MMO with ffa pvp that actually works.
  • RamanadjinnRamanadjinn Huntsville, ALPosts: 1,365Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by dyermaker714
    Hmm. I guess I understand how it wouldn't work well with the way the game is set up. I wonder if ever there will be another MMO with ffa pvp that actually works.

     

    i like to think there will.

    i'm not sure if we'll see too many succeed on the "throw players in the world and just let em kill each other anywhere anytime and deal with it" philosophy...  especially if advertised simply as "old school FFA open loot pvp game!"..  but things like what EVE did or something fresh and inspired like that in a new game could pan out definitely imo.

    the trick is in how its implemented and more importantly -- how it is presented to the public.

     

    gw2 doesn't have what the original post described, but it has its own thing.. and its fun..  and honestly i wish there was a better game out right now but for my tastes there isn't.. i hope you can find one you enjoy!

  • PrenhoPrenho AracajuPosts: 298Member
    Originally posted by dyermaker714
    Hmm. I guess I understand how it wouldn't work well with the way the game is set up. I wonder if ever there will be another MMO with ffa pvp that actually works.

    A owpvp works if there is a good clan war-pk system, the problem is that casual pvp players think that a OWpvp game doesn't have consequences like an instanced pvp-based MMO. Lineage 1-L2 have the best clan war-owpvp system I've seen so far, where players make their own alliances and enemies, and so those clans fight against each other for world bosses, territory and politics. It's not about random ganking randoms for nothing(like in WoW for example), but organized clans that fight for something meaningful.

  • dyermaker714dyermaker714 Austin, TXPosts: 192Member
    Originally posted by Prenho

    Originally posted by dyermaker714
    Hmm. I guess I understand how it wouldn't work well with the way the game is set up. I wonder if ever there will be another MMO with ffa pvp that actually works.

    A owpvp works if there is a good clan war-pk system, the problem is that casual pvp players think that a OWpvp game doesn't have consequences like an instanced pvp-based MMO. Lineage 1-L2 have the best clan war-owpvp system I've seen so far, where players make their own alliances and enemies, and so those clans fight against each other for world bosses, territory and politics. It's not about random ganking randoms for nothing(like in WoW for example), but organized clans that fight for something meaningful.

     

    Very well put
  • DeldorDeldor HusumPosts: 51Member Uncommon

    WvW is open World PvP.

    There is a good amount of WvW-unrelated PvE in these maps: dynamic events, bosses, vistas, skill challanges and jumping puzzles.

    You can go there solely for PvE purposes and enjoy getting ganked while doing so.

  • PrenhoPrenho AracajuPosts: 298Member
    Originally posted by Deldor

    WvW is open World PvP.

    There is a good amount of WvW-unrelated PvE in these maps: dynamic events, bosses, vistas, skill challanges and jumping puzzles.

    You can go there solely for PvE purposes and enjoy getting ganked while doing so.

    So Battefield multiplayer is also an owpvp MMO because there are huge maps with several people every match.

    As I said before, the random ganking random mentality of these players will never change. I like to belong to an organized alliance and fight for world resources and political power against another big enemy clan. Waiting for Lineage Eternal, I hope to spend another 10 years playing it as I did in Lineage 1. I don't like these MMos nowadays that are busted one month after it releases, you get tired after experiencing the "endgame" doing the same instances over and over, and so, you just go to the newest game next month.

     

     

  • Goll25Goll25 bath, PAPosts: 187Member

    The only reason I am willing to deal with this fact, is because I haven't had any meaningful world pvp in ages. Also because it pushed other things to do out in the world, and still does have massive pvp. 

     

    My problem with it though is, their really isn't anything more laid back and fun for a pvp player to do then start some turf wars with a group of players in the open world! It's just that spontaneous feeling, so fun. It is way more dynamic then any of these pve events they plan on having, just because it is a truely random event. It also can form a tight knit community, and rivalries that you just don't see anymore =/. Ah well! It's a dead playstyle at best :(.

  • otinanai123otinanai123 NowherePosts: 265Member
    I don't understand why companies are scared to try out different server modes. Is a gw2 FFA PvP server with PvP enabled everywhere except main cities really that hard to implement?
  • orator1970orator1970 GenovaPosts: 112Member
    Originally posted by otinanai123
    I don't understand why companies are scared to try out different server modes. Is a gw2 FFA PvP server with PvP enabled everywhere except main cities really that hard to implement?

    Yes because it would interfere with people doing DE and Hearts, unless they took them out of course in which case it would be a totally different game :)

  • PrenhoPrenho AracajuPosts: 298Member
    Originally posted by otinanai123
    I don't understand why companies are scared to try out different server modes. Is a gw2 FFA PvP server with PvP enabled everywhere except main cities really that hard to implement?

     

    The first question is if there is any system that gives the players the freedom to make their own alliances-enemies before a OWPVP server, because if not, it will be randoms ganking randoms like the WoW's garbage pvp. As well as there must be a good pk system that punishes players that kill players that are not at war with them, because of this the system of Lineage is the best for owpvp:

     


    Originally posted by Prenho

    Themepark players never heard about pk and karma? Any sandbox focused in OW pvp-clan wars that wants to be decent use a pk system. Lineage 1 and Lineage 2 show this. Just add a pk system, there are 2 things to consider:

     

    1 - PvP without war:

    If player A wants to kill player B but player B is not at war with him(player B belongs to a clan that is not at war with player A clan, or simply doesn't belong to any clan). Player A starts attacking, so his name changes from White(normal state) to purple(flagged state), so 2 things can happen depending if player B will react or not:

    a - Player B doesn't react: if player B doesn't want to react and player A kills him, it means that he killed a player with white name(normal state), so player A will gain karma and his name will change to red color(it means that he became pk, pks are banned from towns, and if someone dies while in pk state, he can lose some(or all) items(as his weapon or armor).

    A pk player needs to kill monters of his gap of level until he cleans his karma and his name becomes white again. Anyone can kill a pk without worrying, pks can be killed and the killer won't become pk, just will have a change to loot some items from pk after killing him.

    A(white name) atks B(white name) = A becomes purple name

    A(purple name) kills B(white name) = A becomes red name(pk) gain karma because he killed a white name.

    b - Player B reacts: player B decides to fight back, so player B will become a purple name too, both players are purple, so this fight will end up and nobody will become pk, because both players are flagged, the winner will just have to wait some time until his name turns white again.

    A(white name) atks B(white name) = A becomes purple name

    B(white name) atks back = B becomes purple name 

    Both palyer are flagged, so it doesn't matter who wins, nobody will become pk because both players opened flag.

    2 - PVP with war

    Player A finds player B and he notices that player B belongs to a clan that is at war with his clan, in this case, the rule above does not apply anymore, because both players are at war, so no matter if player A kills player B without player B reacts or not, you can kill him without worrying about becoming pk. So the players make their own alliances and enemies, while a poor faction game, there are only 2(or 3) factions.

    So in a owpvp game like Lineage, you need a clan and also you need to play along with your clan all the time, there is no "you can do everything alone or with randoms" like in themeparks. Yes your clan has the option to not enter in any war, so your clan will be basically neutral, a clan without enemies.

  • JagaridJagarid West Covina, CAPosts: 415Member
    Originally posted by Goll25

    The only reason I am willing to deal with this fact, is because I haven't had any meaningful world pvp in ages. Also because it pushed other things to do out in the world, and still does have massive pvp. 

     

    My problem with it though is, their really isn't anything more laid back and fun for a pvp player to do then start some turf wars with a group of players in the open world! It's just that spontaneous feeling, so fun. It is way more dynamic then any of these pve events they plan on having, just because it is a truely random event. It also can form a tight knit community, and rivalries that you just don't see anymore =/. Ah well! It's a dead playstyle at best :(.

    I do not think it is a dead play style.   It definitely is not something that you see many games made for.  That's because it is a "niche" portion of the MMO player base that it appeals to, currently.  But the word currently is the key.    

    The problem is that a large portion of current MMO players like Theme Parks and they like not being "required" to team up just to play for a little while.  Those two preferences just don't line up well with a properly done open world PvP game.   

    But, I think a well done open world pvp game, that nails everything properly and has good production values has the potential to draw a whole lot of NEW players into the MMO genre.  FPS games are very popular and alot of them are very teamwork/clan oriented.  It shows there are a lot of players that like the concept, which essentially is the same as open world PvP on many levels.

    I think it is just a matter of time before some developers do it right and do it so well that an open world PvP game comes along that delivers and is successful.   It is worth watching the various MMOFPS games in development right now.  If one of them succeeds and is good enough it could serve as a gateway to introducing the idea of open world PvP MMOs to those gamers.  If successful on a grand scale, quality MMOs with an open world PvP focus are right around the corner.

  • KrossliteKrosslite Folsom, PAPosts: 317Member
    Originally posted by Jagarid
    Originally posted by Goll25
     

    I do not think it is a dead play style.   It definitely is not something that you see many games made for.  That's because it is a "niche" portion of the MMO player base that it appeals to, currently.  But the word currently is the key.    

    It is definately a "niche" market and most MMO companies have finally realized this and so they are starting to change how they are marketing MMOs now.

    I beleive they are finally learning where the real money comes from and so are actually pursuing this money.

    A MMO is like life. It is something to cherish and enjoy upon in it journey. So why race to the end of it. In life at the end you die.

  • mazutmazut SofiaPosts: 886Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by dyermaker714
    GW2 looks incredible to me on all fronts except for one. From what I can tell there is no open world PvP. Now I know (or at least I think I know) that there is some form of non instanced PvP, however, for me, world PvP means being able to traverse through the world with the option to attack any enemy player i see and vice versa. There's nothing more thrilling than getting the jump on someone out in the world or them jumping you and having to think on your feet to survive the attack. This is the greatest fun I take from playing mmos aside from making my character more powerful. Can anyone shed some light on this subject for me or elaborate on exactly how PvP works in gw2 as well as share your thoughts? Thanks -Dyer

    Sadly, the scenario you describe is only 0,001% of all so called "world pvp". The rest is just ganking high level on lowbies or spawn camping or 10vs1.

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by mazut
    Originally posted by dyermaker714
    GW2 looks incredible to me on all fronts except for one. From what I can tell there is no open world PvP. Now I know (or at least I think I know) that there is some form of non instanced PvP, however, for me, world PvP means being able to traverse through the world with the option to attack any enemy player i see and vice versa. There's nothing more thrilling than getting the jump on someone out in the world or them jumping you and having to think on your feet to survive the attack. This is the greatest fun I take from playing mmos aside from making my character more powerful. Can anyone shed some light on this subject for me or elaborate on exactly how PvP works in gw2 as well as share your thoughts? Thanks -Dyer

    Sadly, the scenario you describe is only 0,001% of all so called "world pvp". The rest is just ganking high level on lowbies or spawn camping or 10vs1.

    This ^.

    In my experience, even in the best PvP games, this would not happen very often. Most of the time when it did happen it would only be fun for the first encounter, and then quickly devolve into an endless loop of revenge kills, corpse camping, etc. Gets old fast. Honestly, when it comes to world PvP, I've only ever enjoyed games like Ultima that actually had a decent Outlaw system. I had more fun banding together w/ friends and trying to hunt whomever the latest 'notorious PKer' was for the day. Was much more fun imho.

    Maybe it's just me, but I've never been a big fan of the gank-heavy PvP style. While there is some skill involved, it always seemed to come down to who hit first / who had the most disposable income. Even dueling got old in a lot of games, I enjoy more tactical 'world pvp'.

  • PrenhoPrenho AracajuPosts: 298Member
    Originally posted by mazut
    Originally posted by dyermaker714
    GW2 looks incredible to me on all fronts except for one. From what I can tell there is no open world PvP. Now I know (or at least I think I know) that there is some form of non instanced PvP, however, for me, world PvP means being able to traverse through the world with the option to attack any enemy player i see and vice versa. There's nothing more thrilling than getting the jump on someone out in the world or them jumping you and having to think on your feet to survive the attack. This is the greatest fun I take from playing mmos aside from making my character more powerful. Can anyone shed some light on this subject for me or elaborate on exactly how PvP works in gw2 as well as share your thoughts? Thanks -Dyer

    Sadly, the scenario you describe is only 0,001% of all so called "world pvp". The rest is just ganking high level on lowbies or spawn camping or 10vs1.

    A high level player won't waste his time ganking low level random players(players that are not at war with his guild(or clan)), because his karma will increase montrously and he will need to kill tons of monters to clean his karma, and the risk of being pk is that any other player can kill him and loot his items. High level players that belong to big clans will need to help his guild mates and fight enemy clans(anoter big guild with high level players that is at war with his clan), so as both clans are at war, they can kill each other without becoming pk, they will fight for world bosses, recouces and politics.

     

    Don't compare a owpvp with a decent clan war-pk system with a garbage game like WoW, where you can gank random newbies without any penality to you.

  • mazutmazut SofiaPosts: 886Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Prenho
    Originally posted by mazut
    Originally posted by dyermaker714
    GW2 looks incredible to me on all fronts except for one. From what I can tell there is no open world PvP. Now I know (or at least I think I know) that there is some form of non instanced PvP, however, for me, world PvP means being able to traverse through the world with the option to attack any enemy player i see and vice versa. There's nothing more thrilling than getting the jump on someone out in the world or them jumping you and having to think on your feet to survive the attack. This is the greatest fun I take from playing mmos aside from making my character more powerful. Can anyone shed some light on this subject for me or elaborate on exactly how PvP works in gw2 as well as share your thoughts? Thanks -Dyer

    Sadly, the scenario you describe is only 0,001% of all so called "world pvp". The rest is just ganking high level on lowbies or spawn camping or 10vs1.

    A high level player won't waste his time ganking low level random players(players that are not at war with his guild(or clan)), because his karma will increase montrously and he will need to kill tons of monters to clean his karma, and the risk of being pk is that any other palyer can kill him and loot his items. High level players that belong to big clans will need to help his guild mates and fight enemy clans(anoter big guild with high level players that is at war with his clan), so as both clans are at war, they can kill each other without becoming pk, they will fight for world bosses, recouces and politics.

     

    Don't compare a owpvp with a decent clan war-pk system with a garbage game like WoW, where you can gank random newbies without any penality to you.

    Oh, that deluded romanticists :) Also where did you see me comparing it to wow? o.O

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