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Why 38 studios proves that F2P is not nessecary a good thing.

MrNoMrNo Phx, AZPosts: 92Member

The game that would of been offered by 38 Studios Copernicus was planned to be a F2P MMO In a interview Curt Schilling states:

 "We were going to be the first triple-A, hundred-million-dollar-plus, free-to-play, micro-transaction-based MMO. That was one of our big secrets. I think when we eventually showed off the game for the first time, the atom bomb was going to be free-to-play. When we announced that at the end, that was gonna be the thing that, I think, shocked the world."

Sadly 38 Studios is now defunct. I feel bad for Curt I hope that he can contribute something to the MMO world in the future.

I do not see that Sub based MMO's will be obsolete any time soon.

Source 1

Source 2

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Comments

  • PurutzilPurutzil East Stroudsburg, PAPosts: 2,924Member Uncommon

    That doesn't really prove anything. it just proves they went crazy budget wise trying to do something beyond their power. If blizzard or some other big name company did it that had the funding, there is a good chance that, while initially costly, they could actually turn out big profit from it.

     

    That being said, I am one that leans towards Premium, but the idea that 38 studios collapsed due to making a f2p mmo is just silly. They would of collapsed if it was a P2P MMO as well due to the simple fact: It was NEVER out to actually make profit with whichever model it used.

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common

    the game never launched -- its  unknown what free to play means for success

     

    APB declared bankruptcy one month after launch,

    does that mean sub games are not a good thing?

  • MrNoMrNo Phx, AZPosts: 92Member

    The articals go on to say that:

    "that fact that it was free-to-play was what made investors most excited to invest. Schilling said, “Most investors wanted nothing to do with subscription-based products, they were all on the social media, and free-to-play games as a means to revenue.”

    Now if this is the case why did the F2P approach fall threw?

    image

  • VengerVenger York, PAPosts: 1,318Member

    So would the magic p2p fairies of showed up with a ton of money if copernicus was going to be a p2p title?

    It amazes me the leaps people take in their thought processes just to validate their own opinion is corrent.

  • MrNoMrNo Phx, AZPosts: 92Member
    Originally posted by Venger

    So would the magic p2p fairies of showed up with a ton of money if copernicus was going to be a p2p title?

    It amazes me the leaps people take in their thought processes just to validate their own opinion is corrent.

    I do favor sub based MMO's but I have a mutual respect for F2P games I wanted 38 studios to succeed for I believe that Coprnicus would of been a spectacular game.

    image

  • AldersAlders Jack Burton'sPosts: 1,857Member Uncommon
    It's obvious the pricing model doomed the game from the start and not the inexperience and mismanagement.
  • thinktank001thinktank001 oasisPosts: 2,027Member Uncommon

    I really wonder what they were telling investors.   Nexon didn't make much more than 40 mil in revenue in NA+EU.   With a staff size of 400 it would have taken 38 studios at least 5 years to make that money back, and that is assuming they could actually earn as much as Nexon.  

    However, maybe they were going to go the GW2 route and ask people to pay for a box?

     

    The more details that surface and the more this project was a failure from the start.

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Manchester, NHPosts: 2,928Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Purutzil

    That doesn't really prove anything. it just proves they went crazy budget wise trying to do something beyond their power. If blizzard or some other big name company did it that had the funding, there is a good chance that, while initially costly, they could actually turn out big profit from it.

    Basically this.  Plus a weakly received IP.  But mainly budget and design issues prevented them from releasing an MMO at all.

  • ajayazirajayazir RC, BCPosts: 108Member
    Originally posted by FrodoFragins
    Originally posted by Purutzil

    That doesn't really prove anything. it just proves they went crazy budget wise trying to do something beyond their power. If blizzard or some other big name company did it that had the funding, there is a good chance that, while initially costly, they could actually turn out big profit from it.

    Basically this.  Plus a weakly received IP.  But mainly budget and design issues prevented them from releasing an MMO at all.

    This... not sure what you were hoping for with those articles.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member

    I feel this is now appropriate.

    What is this I don't even

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • kitaradkitarad RomePosts: 1,744Member Uncommon
    There is no real evidence of why the game fell through but it could be because they threw everything but the kitchen sink at the budget.

    image

  • TuchakaTuchaka san diego, CAPosts: 468Member
    games cost too much to make F2P and microtransactions are the future i hope people realize this...Not only are they not going away, but expect more and more of this.
  • azmundaiazmundai St Louis, MOPosts: 1,417Member

    i hate cash shops .. but this makes zero sense. where do you people come up with this stuff?

    LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
    I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already :)

  • SlampigSlampig Chantilly, VAPosts: 2,376Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MrNo

    The game that would of been offered by 38 Studios Copernicus was planned to be a F2P MMO In a interview Curt Schilling states:

     "We were going to be the first triple-A, hundred-million-dollar-plus, free-to-play, micro-transaction-based MMO. That was one of our big secrets. I think when we eventually showed off the game for the first time, the atom bomb was going to be free-to-play. When we announced that at the end, that was gonna be the thing that, I think, shocked the world."

    Sadly 38 Studios is now defunct. I feel bad for Curt I hope that he can contribute something to the MMO world in the future.

    I do not see that Sub based MMO's will be obsolete any time soon.

    Source 1

    Source 2

    They kind of already said that terrible mismanagement is what did that studio in. Them going with a F2P model being the reason the company failed? Really?

    That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  • HarttzHarttz Jacksonville, FLPosts: 91Member

    The failure of the studio had nothing to do with the payment model. They never finished the game because they ran out of money due to terrible mismanagement. Even worse, the parts that they had finished weren't fun.

    It wouldn't have really mattered what payment model they were using because the game wasn't very good. Games don't fail based on their payment model. People don't say: "That game is terrible but it is free so I will play it!" and they certainly don't pass on truly high quality games because of a price tag. They spent a ton of money on artwork and story from their two big-name designers but they didn't make a corresponding investment into programming fun game systems. At best, the game would have been another SWTOR but I doubt it would have had anywhere near SWTOR's launch sales.

  • LethalJaxxLethalJaxx NijmegenPosts: 105Member
    The real reason they went belly-up is because Rhode Island demanded their investment back, since 38 studios wasn't able to meet the clauses that came with the loan. Clause being that 38 studios promised a certain number of jobs created within Rhode Island, which was way over their head. It had nothing to do with the game itself, just a combination of politics and mismanagement.
  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common
    Copernicus being F2P had nothing to do with the downfall of 38 Studios. They had a HUGE team with little to no income.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • tixylixtixylix gfff, TNPosts: 1,208Member Uncommon
    It didn't even get released to prove this..... only thing it proved was they spent more than they had in development and no one would save them.
  • MrNoMrNo Phx, AZPosts: 92Member
    The qustion that comes to mins is how many MMO's that are now F2P are not treading water?

    image

  • gaeanprayergaeanprayer Somewhere Out There, PAPosts: 2,320Member Uncommon

    That doesn't prove anything, they never launched. They still had more than a year of development left before they were even at that point, minimum. What sub model and how much money a game may or may not have made is irrelevant if it never actually released.

    They defaulted because Amalur didn't sell enough to be successful according to the Governor of RI, breaking off more than they could chew budget wise. The problem was compounded with the development of an MMO that was making the exact same mistake.

     

    http://www.joystiq.com/2012/05/24/kingdoms-of-amalur-reckoning-had-to-sell-3m-just-to-break-even/

    "Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

  • tokinitokini third hut on the leftPosts: 341Member Common
    ive read interviews where experienced 'lead devs' say that if you dont stop underlings from constantly tweaking, re-doing, refining, reprogramming, they will do it without end in an attempt to make it perfect. schilling apparently was more than willing to allow this, thus why they never really got close to a releasable product.  schilling also was said to have treated emplyees like gold, and while admirable, combined with the other factor was a ticking time bomb.  to have been developing so long, spending so much cash, and have little beyond a fly over cinematic to show, seems they may never have had a releasable product.
  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,778Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Slampig
    Originally posted by MrNo

    The game that would of been offered by 38 Studios Copernicus was planned to be a F2P MMO In a interview Curt Schilling states:

     "We were going to be the first triple-A, hundred-million-dollar-plus, free-to-play, micro-transaction-based MMO. That was one of our big secrets. I think when we eventually showed off the game for the first time, the atom bomb was going to be free-to-play. When we announced that at the end, that was gonna be the thing that, I think, shocked the world."

    Sadly 38 Studios is now defunct. I feel bad for Curt I hope that he can contribute something to the MMO world in the future.

    I do not see that Sub based MMO's will be obsolete any time soon.

    Source 1

    Source 2

    They kind of already said that terrible mismanagement is what did that studio in. Them going with a F2P model being the reason the company failed? Really?

    its sad that everyone lost their jobs at 38 studios and the companie died terribly.... But thats what happens when you do shady business.... at least thats how i first new about the 38 going bankrupt.... everyone had their eyes on Curt

    image
  • gaeanprayergaeanprayer Somewhere Out There, PAPosts: 2,320Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by tokini
    ive read interviews where experienced 'lead devs' say that if you dont stop underlings from constantly tweaking, re-doing, refining, reprogramming, they will do it without end in an attempt to make it perfect. schilling apparently was more than willing to allow this, thus why they never really got close to a releasable product.  schilling also was said to have treated emplyees like gold, and while admirable, combined with the other factor was a ticking time bomb.  to have been developing so long, spending so much cash, and have little beyond a fly over cinematic to show, seems they may never have had a releasable product.

    I don't necessarily think that's true. It's not just a flyover, they had fully completed environments. That takes a LOT of work, and they also showed some model work and animations. What they didn't show however, was combat or any real game mechanics, so you'd be right in assuming they had a long way to go. Their original prospective date of 2013 seemed optimistic to me. 

    It's not about Schilling treating his employees like gold, that's a great thing. The problem is he refused to hire anyone that didn't command top dollar. He started hiring for the project several years ago and, for a start-up studio, I was shocked he wanted only the creme de la creme and would accept nothing less, based on the qualifications of the job postings on placed like LinkedIn. Salvatore doesn't come cheap, either. All of that means a remarkably over-inflated budget, which is hopefully a lesson learned by everyone involved and the people watching as well.

    "Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,444Member Uncommon

    Well f2p is a bad design for the players in the long run,but it has it's positive points.

    it makes your game look busy with all the freeloaders.People like to see a busy game,if areas are barren of players,they will get bored and probably quit.Some freeloaders might eventually spend a little bit of money.The downside is of course a low end product that needs to run on VERY little cost.

     


    Samoan Diamond

  • MrNoMrNo Phx, AZPosts: 92Member
    Originally posted by Wizardry

    Well f2p is a bad design for the players in the long run,but it has it's positive points.

    it makes your game look busy with all the freeloaders.People like to see a busy game,if areas are barren of players,they will get bored and probably quit.Some freeloaders might eventually spend a little bit of money.The downside is of course a low end product that needs to run on VERY little cost.

     

    I agree with this. How can the MMO industry see F2P the way of the future? I actually think that more developers could very well take a note from ArenaNet after all GW1 did very well also it would be a safe bet that GW2 will profit very nicely. As far as other MMO's that are Sub that made it so far no one can argue the HUGE success that Blizz has with WoW.

    image

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