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Issues with GW2 and ANET

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Comments

  • WeretigarWeretigar winifrede, WVPosts: 609Member

    Rawr! but if the social meda was thier only way of trying to get retention rate it would fail for every 3 members that say its good they get one player for every 1 person that says it suck they lose players. I'm not saying that TV is over powered im just saying the major population doesnt roam forums. If they want to sell more to people with lives they need some mass media type marketing some billboards, commercials, radio commercial during sports. A commercial during the superbowl with a guy pllaying it eating doritos. 

    As a person that live in the west, USA WV I can tell you we are pretty much tax slaves you need a car to get to work and home and thats pretty much your day. All the prices are going up and we are being forced to stay inside more and more. We turn on our tvs to watch 10000s of shows. Game of thrones was the most popular show of quarter 2 of this year throw in a gw2 commercial mill players. You got the fantasy the norns the swords for them to live out thier exp as a hero. 

    If i were to sell a game i would take swtors approach and i would make an initial killing.

  • PhryPhry HampshirePosts: 6,289Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by pratikrath86
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    I agree and disagree with you about the WoW marketing, Blizzard started their proactive marketing campaign for WoW more then a year after the release.  Where other game move to F2P when less and less games are sold, Blizzard started an active marketing campaign.

     

    Sadly none of the other comapnies so far in the buiseness seem to have noticed it.

     

    Currently GW2 has good marketing, they use a lot of the free tools available to push thier game. The so called hype is partly created by their brilliant marketing strategy.  And so far it did not cost a dime (except for paying some sallary).  Maybe further down the road they can decide to go and walk the Blizaard road of using commercial marketing sources, but right now, they just seem to do perfect.

     

    i Do agree with you to an extent .. that the little marketting or freelance marketing they have done till now is good .. and the Wow example of what Blizzard did does not work as well today for one 2004 there wasnt an MMO release every month .. but in 2012 its not the case. MMORPG have way more competition, from other genres also who have take MMORPG fascets into their gaming as well. A point in case is Diablo3, the game box sales were beyond rediculous and it was all down to the amazing agressive marketing Blizzard does so well. They know how to sell an IP.

    im not sure that it was really because WoW was released at a time when there were very few other MMO's out, even if you added all the players together from the games that were available just prior to WoW's release, it wouldnt add up to the kind of numbers that WoW managed to attract, Blizzard literally dragged people into the genre with WoW, and this was probably the combination of advertising and the whole Warcraft name, so yes marketing a game was probably hugely influential, but that was then, Bioware/EA managed to sell quite a few boxes of their game, and they advertised it fairly widely - even saw adverts for it in the UK, from TV to street level advertising, but i don't see anything like the kind of numbers generated that compare to WoW however you look at it, and though i really wonder what the sales figures would have been if they hadnt, and given the games rate of negative growth, its current situation, i don't think the amount they appear to have spent on advertising really worked as well as it should have. So, advertising would give the game a kickstart, but, probably not that much of one, and with all the other games on the market, i don't think MMO's really have that 'newness' factor that grabs people attention anymore, at least, not in the way that WoW seemed to, so many years ago... maybe when we get something that is really new, and i don't mean the combat mechanics or classes, but probably something more 'hardware' related. image

  • WeretigarWeretigar winifrede, WVPosts: 609Member
    Originally posted by lightblade
    Originally posted by pratikrath86
    Originally posted by rykim86
    Originally posted by Weretigar

    I agree w/ the ops statement for the most part. 

    They need some comercials to help w/ more sells. 

    You'd flunk out of marketing 101.

    It's amazing people think TV commercials are the end all be all to push out products.  

    i didnot mean only TV marketting. Getting info out is what i meant and agresive marketing not just TV commercials .. but we are not here to discuss marketting school knowledge now are we?

     

    They did got the info out. PAX, gamescom and YouTube and Internet personalities and even Athene...

    all euro crap pardon my language that had nothing to do with the country actually making the game they didnt show the US any love at all with demos thats why commercials would be a good route

  • SiphaedSiphaed Everywhere!Posts: 877Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by pratikrath86

    Here are some issues i have seen reading posts, videos and reviews and in general following the trends and information on Gw2 and ofcourse playing the game in Betas

    Patience: The fact that players require patience to learn the game and to understand its features is a major entry barrier. One they have revamped some general accepted norms of MMORPG's and they have gone to also decide on the philosophy of no hand holding. Hence asking the general player demographic to have to change / relearn thier gaming style when it comes to MMORPG's on their own terms and by them selves which in it itself requires patience and time (it may not be much ) but creates an entry barrier. Yes there are hints that pop up, NPC that explain what is going on. But Anet should know not many players like reading Tooltips and Hints that pop up, Every game does it but also holds your hand across first few levels explaning each feature, hence cancelling that first tooltip that pops up is our habit now and makes no effect on us learning the other game and hence making us think it wont here either. 

    Fanboism/Hype Train; This is not a Anet creation by itself, but they have encouraged it. I am not saying that they have encouraged the hype directly but they have been releasing info on their game for soo long over 2 years now that it is hard for some one to assimilate if they came to know about a game 3 months back before Betas started. This has lead to some players knwoing almost all features and game philosophy and every thing there is to know about the game for 2 years so when they make comments, you can see how they can be easily be branded as fanbois and blamed for creating hype. Where as some people who know some what about the game and have read a bit about it tend to give the "balanced review" and people who know nothing about it and havnt been hand held in the first few hours of the game tend to give " First impressions"

    Marketing: This has been my biggest bane with ANET as a company. They have decided just because we have made a good game is a reason our game will be successful. If i were the CEO or something of ANET i would first fire my marketing team. Just because you have a good product doesnt mean it will succeed. A good marketed product succeds at first then is retained by the product itself. For Ex. Blizzard. They market WoW a 8 year old game with already a large loyal fan base harder and better than ANET has ever done. And i like Blizzards marketing team, they can literally sell Ice to an Eskimo. ANET on the  other hand uses game developers / content designers / Lore keepers to market their product ! Seriously ANET ? I hope they know there are professionals who make a living out of marketing products, get in some professionals and market your product better. Half the marketing is being done by gamers and GW2 "Fanbois" and if i may say so some GW2 haters are promoting GW2 better than ANET has.

    A clear Example of above is the GEM store.  I dont blame those who say it is P2W. It clearly does look like P2W. If you look at a gem store exactly same as this in any other game with no changes made to it at all, this same Gem Store will be a P2W and no one can deny it. Getting gold for cash with which you can buy items ? P2W for me in any other game, faster XP P2W for me in any other game etc etc , Unfortunately ANET fails at explaining how it is not P2W. How items bought with real cash will not give you and your team a significant advantage if any advantage at all. People see game philosophy and CS as seperate entitities. And i dont blame the gamers for it but the ANET team, they have to do a better job of letting the players base know.

    Another NO END GAME content. It took ANET 2 years and only a couple of weeks back to give a slight insight into their "END GAME ". ANd even they started by saying " alot of people are asking us about our End game" Well if you ofcourse dont explain people what it is even though you have been releasing info for the last 2 years, ofourse 2 weeks before release people will ask you. I understand they want to keep content as a wow factor never seen before kinda thing but you have to give out info a lot more so people know better and not just your "fanbois".

    These are just some my "first impressions" so you cant flame me for something i have said , but please go ahead ANET "fanbois" flame me ! 

    PS: some comments above are sarcastic and back handed in nature if you dont get them i am sorry.

     

     

    1) Tough luck that they're not catering to the ignorant and lazy people.  It's THEIR (PLAYERS) fault that they don't read the pop-ups.  It's their fault that they cannot be patient with the game.  And it's their own falut that they want brain-dead combat that is the exact same from most every MMO for the past 10 years.

     

    2) Many games announce their product many years prior to it's release.  SW:TOR was announced in 2008, released 2012.  Age of Conan announced 2005, released 2008. World of Warcraft announced in 2001, released 2004.

     

       So, Guild Wars 2 was announced 2007, releases in 1 week :).  That's not too long of a time for them to take to release the game from when it's announced.  And them to be giving information to the potential playerbase (i.e. fans) is not a bad thing.  It's good that they communicated these faetures, changes and game style, because they used feedback to then make changes to the game.  They stuck by their "when it's ready" additude for the game.    The "hype" is because all these features that they've promised to be in the game are features that other games have promised:  GW2 delivers and then some, those other games have failed to deliver.

     

    3) For marketing, word of mouth is the best advertisement a person can have.  This is especially true in the age of Twitter/Facebook.  Because if one person /likes Guild Wars2, then all their friends will see it, question it, try it, and like it too.   That's how this system works.  Spending $100,000's to millions on advertisements (or CGI that looks nothing like the game) is a waste.  Honestly, I think that advertisements FEED HYPE, so it's really a counter to your #2 up there.  What gives on that?


  • timeraidertimeraider BredaPosts: 568Member Uncommon

    faster XP P2W for me in any other game etc etc ,

     

    Agreed, this is the boost most people complain about.. so if i render this useless with my coming explaination, would they stop raging? no, but ill do it anyway.

     

    You have an event .. lets say at the end of an kill-mobs event you have gotten 1000 exp. During 3 BWEs and alot of stress test ive noticed this... 900 exp would be from the quest itself, 100 exp would be from the mobs. Meaning your exp would be boosted by 50..

    so in fact 99% of the time the exp boost gives only 5% more, looking at the whole event/quest.. not only at mob exp.

    Combine that with quite a nice IRL cost and the fact thats its quite useless to be at lvl 80 5% aster then everyone else, since in spvp your lvl doesnt matter. at wvw you get buffed quite up to one line (slight armor differences) and at pve other people may even have it easier because being slightly longer in an area means more chance to get better items which also means easier load in an dungeon.

     

    Further all items in the cashshop are cosmetic OR also quite easily gained ingame ( you NEVER NEED to pay )

     

     

    I like how arenanet doesnt really publicely advertise GW2 that much.. they want people to let the game speak for itself and thats why i absolutely HATE people who talk about gw2 while not having played it yet.

     

    Also.. yes it requires patience to learn the game.. so what? Its a skillbased pvpve game... if you cant take the pressure of something hard to overcome, go play WoW :D (yeah i know ... its a prejudice .. most people complaining about gw2 havent even played wow ... but still fun to say :D)

    Main games: Heroes of the Storm, Starcraft 2, Brawlhalla
    Waiting for: Overwatch

  • Ridan477Ridan477 Fullerton, CAPosts: 48Member Uncommon

    I found this very helpfull in giving an idea of what the End Game content is about. No they do not have Raids. No that does not mean they do not have EndGame. Also WvWvW is not the EndGame content for everyone, take the time to watch to videos and be enlightened.

    Part 1:

    Part 2

    Scoobin it up on the daily.

  • RaekonRaekon AugsburgPosts: 553Member
    Originally posted by Siphaed

    1) Tough luck that they're not catering to the ignorant and lazy people.  It's THEIR (PLAYERS) fault that they don't read the pop-ups.  It's their fault that they cannot be patient with the game.  And it's their own falut that they want brain-dead combat that is the exact same from most every MMO for the past 10 years.

     

    2) Many games announce their product many years prior to it's release.  SW:TOR was announced in 2008, released 2012.  Age of Conan announced 2005, released 2008. World of Warcraft announced in 2001, released 2004.

     

       So, Guild Wars 2 was announced 2007, releases in 1 week :).  That's not too long of a time for them to take to release the game from when it's announced.  And them to be giving information to the potential playerbase (i.e. fans) is not a bad thing.  It's good that they communicated these faetures, changes and game style, because they used feedback to then make changes to the game.  They stuck by their "when it's ready" additude for the game.    The "hype" is because all these features that they've promised to be in the game are features that other games have promised:  GW2 delivers and then some, those other games have failed to deliver.

     

    3) For marketing, word of mouth is the best advertisement a person can have.  This is especially true in the age of Twitter/Facebook.  Because if one person /likes Guild Wars2, then all their friends will see it, question it, try it, and like it too.   That's how this system works.  Spending $100,000's to millions on advertisements (or CGI that looks nothing like the game) is a waste.  Honestly, I think that advertisements FEED HYPE, so it's really a counter to your #2 up there.  What gives on that?

    Agree in all 3 points.

    Addition to point 1:

    Most people indeed don't want to read so no matter how good a tutorial is, if they don't read what the npc says, they won't have a clue on what to do even after the tutorial is done.

    So saying the tutorial mission in GW2 isn't good enough is actually failing the whole argument cause in GW2 case, you get at least to understand what is to do by actually playing through it than reading a lot and even the parts you need to read are partially showcases through your character actually talking with the npc like in your personal story.

    Addition to point 2:

    ANet had the best approach a developer can have on this.

    They didn't need to generate any hype themselves cause their actions spoke in lenghts better than words because:

    - they cooperated fully with the community

    - they had a tight group of testers that were partially players from said community

    - took all the  feedback seriously, worked on issues properly, gave appropriate feedback and infos to the players so they know what is going on and what is still at work or changed or will change in the future

    - gave out infos about how the game will work in any aspect so people get to know the whole game before even playing it truthfully without promising things that are not even in the game or will ever make it in the game.

    Additions to point 3:

    I was a huge warcraft fan, had played all warcraft games prior to wow and still disliked wow due to the lore that in the beginning had so many inconsinstentcy that one couldn't tell what was going on anymore.

    The whole game was a ripoff of several other mmos I had played through the years and nothing looked or felt original (except of their own graphics) to me.

    I got sick and tired to not be able to open a gaming or other type of magazines without having WOW on every second page.

    So yes, the 200k they throwed into advertisement in the first week already worked well for most people but not for everyone.

    Advertisement was also the main reason the game got so successfull cause where other games advertise only through some banners here and there on some online sites, wow was in every magazine, television, radio, internet and everywhere to be seen and heard so a huge amount of people got to know it.

    If you ask lots of people that played it for years, most of them have one thing in common:

    They were in the game because of the community and friends they made there instead of the game itself.

    Of course it happens in other games too but in wow was a huge factor that got them many subscribers that had nothing to do with mmos before. Why? Because the advertisement promoted that.

    ANet however, let their game speak for itself and the word to mouth as Siphaed already stated, is not only the cheapest approach that saves them money they can put into the development instead but also the fastest way to spread the news among players and no-players.

    Of course Blizzard had the same result through their whole campaigns all the years but the difference lies obviously at the amount of money they spend for that so in comparison ANet has it's own "advertisement campaigns" at zero cost cause when you open a gaming magazine and see the game is featured is because of an interview the magazine did or because the people from said magazine tested the game themselves instead of a advertisement of the game on every second page like in Blizzards case.

    As about hte PW2 and "no end game" stuff, we had the discussion like 1000s times so I will leave it to that(no matter if you meant it sarcastic or meant it for real).

  • otacuotacu BolzanoPosts: 547Member

    I see what you did there. he he

     

    Btw i really liked how Arenanet didn't spend much on "marketing". Most of the marketing was made with low cost in game videos and simple interview from the developers.... all spared money that went into development of the game :D

    They rely on mouth to mouth from fans and i guess it was the right decision.

  • rykim86rykim86 winnipeg, MBPosts: 236Member
    Originally posted by Weretigar

    Rawr! but if the social meda was thier only way of trying to get retention rate it would fail for every 3 members that say its good they get one player for every 1 person that says it suck they lose players. I'm not saying that TV is over powered im just saying the major population doesnt roam forums. If they want to sell more to people with lives they need some mass media type marketing some billboards, commercials, radio commercial during sports. A commercial during the superbowl with a guy pllaying it eating doritos. 

    Holy shit you really are ignorant. 

    True that the majority of the population will not frequent forum boards.  But it's even more true that most of the population could gives two rat shits GW2 or any other MMO for that matter.  Plastering the game on billboards, radio commercials, etc..  blindly is a waste of fucking money.  

    Good luck trying to convince your marketing department to grab an advert during the superbowl lol.

    As a person that live in the west, USA WV I can tell you we are pretty much tax slaves you need a car to get to work and home and thats pretty much your day. All the prices are going up and we are being forced to stay inside more and more. We turn on our tvs to watch 10000s of shows. Game of thrones was the most popular show of quarter 2 of this year throw in a gw2 commercial mill players. You got the fantasy the norns the swords for them to live out thier exp as a hero. 

    If i were to sell a game i would take swtors approach and i would make an initial killing.

    Ah yes.  Spoken like a true EA brainwashed minion.  Make a shitty game and/or rehash and cash in and move on.

     

  • therez0therez0 Ridgecrest, CAPosts: 379Member

    I disagree whole-heartedly with your point on marketing.

    If your product needs some trumped up shill to market your game, you didn't make a good enough product.

    I would rather hear from the designers with their unbridled enthusiasm than hear the spin put out by marketing staff.

    I will also agree with you about Blizzard's marketing being able to sell ice to an Eskimo; where I'm from we call that a con-artist. Despite my gut feeling, they still managed to con me into buying Diablo 3, only to prove my gut right that it would be a disappointment.

    But I digress... I would rather hear from a designer, hear their reasoning, hear how much they want to play the game after already spending so much time with it, than another line from the guys who have too many thesauri and not enough sense.

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 17,949Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by timeraider

    faster XP P2W for me in any other game etc etc ,

    Agreed, this is the boost most people complain about.. so if i render this useless with my coming explaination, would they stop raging? no, but ill do it anyway.

    You have an event .. lets say at the end of an kill-mobs event you have gotten 1000 exp. During 3 BWEs and alot of stress test ive noticed this... 900 exp would be from the quest itself, 100 exp would be from the mobs. Meaning your exp would be boosted by 50..

    so in fact 99% of the time the exp boost gives only 5% more, looking at the whole event/quest.. not only at mob exp.

    Combine that with quite a nice IRL cost and the fact thats its quite useless to be at lvl 80 5% aster then everyone else, since in spvp your lvl doesnt matter. at wvw you get buffed quite up to one line (slight armor differences) and at pve other people may even have it easier because being slightly longer in an area means more chance to get better items which also means easier load in an dungeon.

    Further all items in the cashshop are cosmetic OR also quite easily gained ingame ( you NEVER NEED to pay )

    I like how arenanet doesnt really publicely advertise GW2 that much.. they want people to let the game speak for itself and thats why i absolutely HATE people who talk about gw2 while not having played it yet.

    Also.. yes it requires patience to learn the game.. so what? Its a skillbased pvpve game... if you cant take the pressure of something hard to overcome, go play WoW :D (yeah i know ... its a prejudice .. most people complaining about gw2 havent even played wow ... but still fun to say :D)

    You are right, but the whole argument is kinda silly. Reaching 80 fastest isnt really "winning", particularly not in GW2. 

  • ExcessionExcession NottinghamPosts: 367Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by pratikrath86
    Originally posted by alkrmr
    ppssshhhh

    Back your comment(s) with facts or dont post at all ! 

    Perhaps you should have thought about this before you made the OP.

     

    Your OP is just opinion stated as fact, with no actual facts to back it up.

     

    Practice what you preach tbh.

    A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.

  • Caliburn101Caliburn101 LondonPosts: 636Member
    Originally posted by pratikrath86
    Originally posted by Weretigar
    Originally posted by DragonPop11
    Originally posted by steeler989
    I find your signature to be wrong.

    ^.^ agreed

    3rd. Also why does your avatar look more like a grimlin and less like asura? did you feed it after midnight?

    Dang you guys are not agreeing with my signature !! YOU MUST be wrong .. i dont know why .. but i just know it ! 

    And dare you open your mouth about my ASura ... Beauty lies in the eye of the beholder.

    That's true - but you seem to be on the wrong planet of beholders to convince anyone that your rat-faced weasely asuran piccie is beautiful....

    .... striking an memorable yes - but beautiful...... no

  • Cod_EyeCod_Eye jarrowPosts: 1,016Member

    Anet doesnt need to market their product if the sales are reaching their target, marketing costs a lot of money and sometimes its unnecessary.  A lot of companies dont pay out for marketing and rely on word of mouth as a marketing concept.  Its nothing new and is popular with many products and businesses.

    Anet may still market GW2 after launch, they may have a Christmas marketing promotion put together, what do people know outside of Arenanet?  You won't see a lot of games marketted through media like TV/Radio or newspapers, they tend to stick to special interest magazines or the internet and advertise through sites like this one.

    Not really sure why Blizzard spent so much money marketing WoW in the UK through television last year, as it didnt show a spike in UK subscriptions, infact the subs have dipped since advertising, I also thought the advert was targeting children more than adults and this maybe the reason why it didnt have an adverse effect in new sales.

     

  • CombspeCombspe Eugene, ORPosts: 100Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by pratikrath86
    Originally posted by alkrmr
    ppssshhhh

    Back your comment(s) with facts or dont post at all ! 

    You tell someone to back up their comments up with facts but you fail to do the same in your post. I see zero references to your claims, therefore you yourself have baseless claims.

  • WeretigarWeretigar winifrede, WVPosts: 609Member
    Originally posted by rykim86
    Originally posted by Weretigar

    Rawr! but if the social meda was thier only way of trying to get retention rate it would fail for every 3 members that say its good they get one player for every 1 person that says it suck they lose players. I'm not saying that TV is over powered im just saying the major population doesnt roam forums. If they want to sell more to people with lives they need some mass media type marketing some billboards, commercials, radio commercial during sports. A commercial during the superbowl with a guy pllaying it eating doritos. 

    Holy shit you really are ignorant. 

    True that the majority of the population will not frequent forum boards.  But it's even more true that most of the population could gives two rat shits GW2 or any other MMO for that matter.  Plastering the game on billboards, radio commercials, etc..  blindly is a waste of fucking money.  

    Good luck trying to convince your marketing department to grab an advert during the superbowl lol.

    As a person that live in the west, USA WV I can tell you we are pretty much tax slaves you need a car to get to work and home and thats pretty much your day. All the prices are going up and we are being forced to stay inside more and more. We turn on our tvs to watch 10000s of shows. Game of thrones was the most popular show of quarter 2 of this year throw in a gw2 commercial mill players. You got the fantasy the norns the swords for them to live out thier exp as a hero. 

    If i were to sell a game i would take swtors approach and i would make an initial killing.

    Ah yes.  Spoken like a true EA brainwashed minion.  Make a shitty game and/or rehash and cash in and move on.

     EA definatly made more then any other mmo to the date when it came to selling for the first month. Seeing facts makes me a minion. I already said i had a copy of gw2 didnt i? I definatly have more beta and stress test ss then you do on these boards.

    Even you yourself said the majority of pop doesnt visit the boards yet i am ignorant to expand? Seriously? It is a waste of money to try and bring in more consumers lol. Doritos has idie funded commercials at every superbowl couldnt be to hard for a no fail marketing game like this one to grease a few palms. 

    I dont know if your baiting or just specialy educated. It worked for every company thats tried it, or does anet meet some standerd because you love a game that isnt even released yet to much to know when somone else idea might be better?

    If you ask EA where money was wasted they are not going to say commercials.

     

  • MacecardMacecard WokingPosts: 142Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by pratikrath86

    Here are some issues i have seen reading posts, videos and reviews and in general following the trends and information on Gw2 and ofcourse playing the game in Betas

    Patience: The fact that players require patience to learn the game and to understand its features is a major entry barrier. One they have revamped some general accepted norms of MMORPG's and they have gone to also decide on the philosophy of no hand holding. Hence asking the general player demographic to have to change / relearn thier gaming style when it comes to MMORPG's on their own terms and by them selves which in it itself requires patience and time (it may not be much ) but creates an entry barrier. Yes there are hints that pop up, NPC that explain what is going on. But Anet should know not many players like reading Tooltips and Hints that pop up, Every game does it but also holds your hand across first few levels explaning each feature, hence cancelling that first tooltip that pops up is our habit now and makes no effect on us learning the other game and hence making us think it wont here either. 

    Fanboism/Hype Train; This is not a Anet creation by itself, but they have encouraged it. I am not saying that they have encouraged the hype directly but they have been releasing info on their game for soo long over 2 years now that it is hard for some one to assimilate if they came to know about a game 3 months back before Betas started. This has lead to some players knwoing almost all features and game philosophy and every thing there is to know about the game for 2 years so when they make comments, you can see how they can be easily be branded as fanbois and blamed for creating hype. Where as some people who know some what about the game and have read a bit about it tend to give the "balanced review" and people who know nothing about it and havnt been hand held in the first few hours of the game tend to give " First impressions"

    Marketing: This has been my biggest bane with ANET as a company. They have decided just because we have made a good game is a reason our game will be successful. If i were the CEO or something of ANET i would first fire my marketing team. Just because you have a good product doesnt mean it will succeed. A good marketed product succeds at first then is retained by the product itself. For Ex. Blizzard. They market WoW a 8 year old game with already a large loyal fan base harder and better than ANET has ever done. And i like Blizzards marketing team, they can literally sell Ice to an Eskimo. ANET on the  other hand uses game developers / content designers / Lore keepers to market their product ! Seriously ANET ? I hope they know there are professionals who make a living out of marketing products, get in some professionals and market your product better. Half the marketing is being done by gamers and GW2 "Fanbois" and if i may say so some GW2 haters are promoting GW2 better than ANET has.

    A clear Example of above is the GEM store.  I dont blame those who say it is P2W. It clearly does look like P2W. If you look at a gem store exactly same as this in any other game with no changes made to it at all, this same Gem Store will be a P2W and no one can deny it. Getting gold for cash with which you can buy items ? P2W for me in any other game, faster XP P2W for me in any other game etc etc , Unfortunately ANET fails at explaining how it is not P2W. How items bought with real cash will not give you and your team a significant advantage if any advantage at all. People see game philosophy and CS as seperate entitities. And i dont blame the gamers for it but the ANET team, they have to do a better job of letting the players base know.

    Another NO END GAME content. It took ANET 2 years and only a couple of weeks back to give a slight insight into their "END GAME ". ANd even they started by saying " alot of people are asking us about our End game" Well if you ofcourse dont explain people what it is even though you have been releasing info for the last 2 years, ofourse 2 weeks before release people will ask you. I understand they want to keep content as a wow factor never seen before kinda thing but you have to give out info a lot more so people know better and not just your "fanbois".

    These are just some my "first impressions" so you cant flame me for something i have said , but please go ahead ANET "fanbois" flame me ! 

    PS: some comments above are sarcastic and back handed in nature if you dont get them i am sorry.

     

     

    No. Just No. Please go look at the "gem" stores for the games: Battle of the immortals and Luminary. I am positive there are more examples of pay to win out there but those 2 I know for a FACT are seriously P2W and compared to GW2 Gem store they are nothing a like.

    Items that are required for gear advancment that drop less 0.1% of the time in game from rare and difficult mobs costing 1-2 dollars in the those gem stores. These things are not optional. Also you can buy item that have a % chance of upgrading your weapon. So your buying a gambling chip. again not in GW2. 

    I am tired of this arguement. If you arguement that GW2 is p2w because TSW or other A and AAA mmos have similar gem stores then your not informed enough to make the opinion of wether a store is p2w or not.

    Play or look at these games where the store is a gamble and you something that only has a % chance to help you out. Or you have to buy an item from the gem store before you attempt your next waepon upgrade because it protects your weapon from DESTRUCTION if the upgrade fails. Do those items sound optional to you? Have another look at the GW2 store and reevaluate your opinion.

    If you continue to make sweeping statements like you know what everyone everywhere thinks about a certain topic then I am going to shout at you.
    It easy to type 'I think this is the worst game ever'
    Rather than the 'This is the worst game ever'

  • CombspeCombspe Eugene, ORPosts: 100Member Uncommon

    "Play or look at these games where the store is a gamble and you something that only has a % chance to help you out. Or you have to buy an item from the gem store before you attempt your next waepon upgrade because it protects your weapon from DESTRUCTION if the upgrade fails. Do those items sound optional to you? Have another look at the GW2 store and reevaluate your opinion."

    Exactly my point, these are not facts but mere pointless opinions.

  • grapevinegrapevine PeterboroughPosts: 1,927Member
    Originally posted by Macecard
    Originally posted by pratikrath86

    Here are some issues i have seen reading posts, videos and reviews and in general following the trends and information on Gw2 and ofcourse playing the game in Betas

    Patience: The fact that players require patience to learn the game and to understand its features is a major entry barrier. One they have revamped some general accepted norms of MMORPG's and they have gone to also decide on the philosophy of no hand holding. Hence asking the general player demographic to have to change / relearn thier gaming style when it comes to MMORPG's on their own terms and by them selves which in it itself requires patience and time (it may not be much ) but creates an entry barrier. Yes there are hints that pop up, NPC that explain what is going on. But Anet should know not many players like reading Tooltips and Hints that pop up, Every game does it but also holds your hand across first few levels explaning each feature, hence cancelling that first tooltip that pops up is our habit now and makes no effect on us learning the other game and hence making us think it wont here either. 

    Fanboism/Hype Train; This is not a Anet creation by itself, but they have encouraged it. I am not saying that they have encouraged the hype directly but they have been releasing info on their game for soo long over 2 years now that it is hard for some one to assimilate if they came to know about a game 3 months back before Betas started. This has lead to some players knwoing almost all features and game philosophy and every thing there is to know about the game for 2 years so when they make comments, you can see how they can be easily be branded as fanbois and blamed for creating hype. Where as some people who know some what about the game and have read a bit about it tend to give the "balanced review" and people who know nothing about it and havnt been hand held in the first few hours of the game tend to give " First impressions"

    Marketing: This has been my biggest bane with ANET as a company. They have decided just because we have made a good game is a reason our game will be successful. If i were the CEO or something of ANET i would first fire my marketing team. Just because you have a good product doesnt mean it will succeed. A good marketed product succeds at first then is retained by the product itself. For Ex. Blizzard. They market WoW a 8 year old game with already a large loyal fan base harder and better than ANET has ever done. And i like Blizzards marketing team, they can literally sell Ice to an Eskimo. ANET on the  other hand uses game developers / content designers / Lore keepers to market their product ! Seriously ANET ? I hope they know there are professionals who make a living out of marketing products, get in some professionals and market your product better. Half the marketing is being done by gamers and GW2 "Fanbois" and if i may say so some GW2 haters are promoting GW2 better than ANET has.

    A clear Example of above is the GEM store.  I dont blame those who say it is P2W. It clearly does look like P2W. If you look at a gem store exactly same as this in any other game with no changes made to it at all, this same Gem Store will be a P2W and no one can deny it. Getting gold for cash with which you can buy items ? P2W for me in any other game, faster XP P2W for me in any other game etc etc , Unfortunately ANET fails at explaining how it is not P2W. How items bought with real cash will not give you and your team a significant advantage if any advantage at all. People see game philosophy and CS as seperate entitities. And i dont blame the gamers for it but the ANET team, they have to do a better job of letting the players base know.

    Another NO END GAME content. It took ANET 2 years and only a couple of weeks back to give a slight insight into their "END GAME ". ANd even they started by saying " alot of people are asking us about our End game" Well if you ofcourse dont explain people what it is even though you have been releasing info for the last 2 years, ofourse 2 weeks before release people will ask you. I understand they want to keep content as a wow factor never seen before kinda thing but you have to give out info a lot more so people know better and not just your "fanbois".

    These are just some my "first impressions" so you cant flame me for something i have said , but please go ahead ANET "fanbois" flame me ! 

    PS: some comments above are sarcastic and back handed in nature if you dont get them i am sorry.

     

     

    No. Just No. Please go look at the "gem" stores for the games: Battle of the immortals and Luminary. I am positive there are more examples of pay to win out there but those 2 I know for a FACT are seriously P2W and compared to GW2 Gem store they are nothing a like.

    Items that are required for gear advancment that drop less 0.1% of the time in game from rare and difficult mobs costing 1-2 dollars in the those gem stores. These things are not optional. Also you can buy item that have a % chance of upgrading your weapon. So your buying a gambling chip. again not in GW2. 

    I am tired of this arguement. If you arguement that GW2 is p2w because TSW or other A and AAA mmos have similar gem stores then your not informed enough to make the opinion of wether a store is p2w or not.

    Play or look at these games where the store is a gamble and you something that only has a % chance to help you out. Or you have to buy an item from the gem store before you attempt your next waepon upgrade because it protects your weapon from DESTRUCTION if the upgrade fails. Do those items sound optional to you? Have another look at the GW2 store and reevaluate your opinion.

     

     

    TSW and other mmos stores are entirely cosmetic, which can't be said about GW2.  However I think you missed the OP's point.  It's the perception of P2W, because it does have items for sale the can effect the game.   Game mechanics may prevent that, but on face value it's a perception.

  • MacecardMacecard WokingPosts: 142Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by grapevine
    Originally posted by Macecard
    Originally posted by pratikrath86

    Here are some issues i have seen reading posts, videos and reviews and in general following the trends and information on Gw2 and ofcourse playing the game in Betas

    Patience: The fact that players require patience to learn the game and to understand its features is a major entry barrier. One they have revamped some general accepted norms of MMORPG's and they have gone to also decide on the philosophy of no hand holding. Hence asking the general player demographic to have to change / relearn thier gaming style when it comes to MMORPG's on their own terms and by them selves which in it itself requires patience and time (it may not be much ) but creates an entry barrier. Yes there are hints that pop up, NPC that explain what is going on. But Anet should know not many players like reading Tooltips and Hints that pop up, Every game does it but also holds your hand across first few levels explaning each feature, hence cancelling that first tooltip that pops up is our habit now and makes no effect on us learning the other game and hence making us think it wont here either. 

    Fanboism/Hype Train; This is not a Anet creation by itself, but they have encouraged it. I am not saying that they have encouraged the hype directly but they have been releasing info on their game for soo long over 2 years now that it is hard for some one to assimilate if they came to know about a game 3 months back before Betas started. This has lead to some players knwoing almost all features and game philosophy and every thing there is to know about the game for 2 years so when they make comments, you can see how they can be easily be branded as fanbois and blamed for creating hype. Where as some people who know some what about the game and have read a bit about it tend to give the "balanced review" and people who know nothing about it and havnt been hand held in the first few hours of the game tend to give " First impressions"

    Marketing: This has been my biggest bane with ANET as a company. They have decided just because we have made a good game is a reason our game will be successful. If i were the CEO or something of ANET i would first fire my marketing team. Just because you have a good product doesnt mean it will succeed. A good marketed product succeds at first then is retained by the product itself. For Ex. Blizzard. They market WoW a 8 year old game with already a large loyal fan base harder and better than ANET has ever done. And i like Blizzards marketing team, they can literally sell Ice to an Eskimo. ANET on the  other hand uses game developers / content designers / Lore keepers to market their product ! Seriously ANET ? I hope they know there are professionals who make a living out of marketing products, get in some professionals and market your product better. Half the marketing is being done by gamers and GW2 "Fanbois" and if i may say so some GW2 haters are promoting GW2 better than ANET has.

    A clear Example of above is the GEM store.  I dont blame those who say it is P2W. It clearly does look like P2W. If you look at a gem store exactly same as this in any other game with no changes made to it at all, this same Gem Store will be a P2W and no one can deny it. Getting gold for cash with which you can buy items ? P2W for me in any other game, faster XP P2W for me in any other game etc etc , Unfortunately ANET fails at explaining how it is not P2W. How items bought with real cash will not give you and your team a significant advantage if any advantage at all. People see game philosophy and CS as seperate entitities. And i dont blame the gamers for it but the ANET team, they have to do a better job of letting the players base know.

    Another NO END GAME content. It took ANET 2 years and only a couple of weeks back to give a slight insight into their "END GAME ". ANd even they started by saying " alot of people are asking us about our End game" Well if you ofcourse dont explain people what it is even though you have been releasing info for the last 2 years, ofourse 2 weeks before release people will ask you. I understand they want to keep content as a wow factor never seen before kinda thing but you have to give out info a lot more so people know better and not just your "fanbois".

    These are just some my "first impressions" so you cant flame me for something i have said , but please go ahead ANET "fanbois" flame me ! 

    PS: some comments above are sarcastic and back handed in nature if you dont get them i am sorry.

     

     

    No. Just No. Please go look at the "gem" stores for the games: Battle of the immortals and Luminary. I am positive there are more examples of pay to win out there but those 2 I know for a FACT are seriously P2W and compared to GW2 Gem store they are nothing a like.

    Items that are required for gear advancment that drop less 0.1% of the time in game from rare and difficult mobs costing 1-2 dollars in the those gem stores. These things are not optional. Also you can buy item that have a % chance of upgrading your weapon. So your buying a gambling chip. again not in GW2. 

    I am tired of this arguement. If you arguement that GW2 is p2w because TSW or other A and AAA mmos have similar gem stores then your not informed enough to make the opinion of wether a store is p2w or not.

    Play or look at these games where the store is a gamble and you something that only has a % chance to help you out. Or you have to buy an item from the gem store before you attempt your next waepon upgrade because it protects your weapon from DESTRUCTION if the upgrade fails. Do those items sound optional to you? Have another look at the GW2 store and reevaluate your opinion.

     

     

    TSW and other mmos stores are entirely cosmetic, which can't be said about GW2.  However I think you missed the OP's point.  It's the perception of P2W, because it does have items for sale the can effect the game.   Game mechanics may prevent that, but on face value it's a perception.

    And this perception comes from where exactly? [mod edit]

    As far as I can see the GEM store in GW2 is not going to create an US and THEM situation between gemmers and non gemmers and that for me at least says its not p2w.

    PS: Notice how the OP doesnt mention the "items" that are creating this p2w perception? maybe fomr evidence and facts would help people make their own opinion instead of just satating it like its a fact and not allowing people to work it out on their own. perception can be created very easily and this is the kind of thread that does just that.

    If you continue to make sweeping statements like you know what everyone everywhere thinks about a certain topic then I am going to shout at you.
    It easy to type 'I think this is the worst game ever'
    Rather than the 'This is the worst game ever'

  • WeretigarWeretigar winifrede, WVPosts: 609Member
    Originally posted by Macecard

    A clear Example of above is the GEM store.  I dont blame those who say it is P2W. It clearly does look like P2W. If you look at a gem store exactly same as this in any other game with no changes made to it at all, this same Gem Store will be a P2W and no one can deny it. Getting gold for cash with which you can buy items ? P2W for me in any other game, faster XP P2W for me in any other game etc etc , Unfortunately ANET fails at explaining how it is not P2W. How items bought with real cash will not give you and your team a significant advantage if any advantage at all. People see game philosophy and CS as seperate entitities. And i dont blame the gamers for it but the ANET team, they have to do a better job of letting the players base know.

    And this perception comes from where exactly? [mod edit]

    As far as I can see the GEM store in GW2 is not going to create an US and THEM situation between gemmers and non gemmers and that for me at least says its not p2w.

    PS: Notice how the OP doesnt mention the "items" that are creating this p2w perception? maybe fomr evidence and facts would help people make their own opinion instead of just satating it like its a fact and not allowing people to work it out on their own. perception can be created very easily and this is the kind of thread that does just that.

    I highlighted a part i think you should read before you go all crazy on everyone. He wrote the rest of the paragraph for a reason.

  • grapevinegrapevine PeterboroughPosts: 1,927Member
    I believe the p2w argument is more around being able to buy gold, and therefore in game items that can sway pvp.   If one can dominate supply, then real cash can become a factor.  As it negates having to earn in game money.  Chances of dominating supply is however another thing, and supply is limited, which is why it's perceptional.
  • Oracle_FefeOracle_Fefe N/A, NYPosts: 221Member
    Originally posted by pratikrath86

     

    A clear Example of above is the GEM store.  I dont blame those who say it is P2W. It clearly does look like P2W. If you look at a gem store exactly same as this in any other game with no changes made to it at all, this same Gem Store will be a P2W and no one can deny it. Getting gold for cash with which you can buy items ? P2W for me in any other game, faster XP P2W for me in any other game etc etc , Unfortunately ANET fails at explaining how it is not P2W. How items bought with real cash will not give you and your team a significant advantage if any advantage at all. People see game philosophy and CS as seperate entitities. And i dont blame the gamers for it but the ANET team, they have to do a better job of letting the players base know.

    Another NO END GAME content. It took ANET 2 years and only a couple of weeks back to give a slight insight into their "END GAME ". ANd even they started by saying " alot of people are asking us about our End game" Well if you ofcourse dont explain people what it is even though you have been releasing info for the last 2 years, ofourse 2 weeks before release people will ask you. I understand they want to keep content as a wow factor never seen before kinda thing but you have to give out info a lot more so people know better and not just your "fanbois".

     

     

    These two paragraphs are the ones I disagree with and would like further information from you.

     

    To remind you something that I've learned from my two months of learning, the true high-end green/orange/whatever items that you progress in PvE in (Armor, weapons, the usual gear.) Isn't purchased with gold but with Karma. Karma is gained not by cash or gold but through events, quests, WvWvW. Cash is used for basic items and crafting items alongside repairs. It can also be a currency to trade tradable equipment but I do not believe Karma items are tradable due to Karma itself being untradable (And if it is, then it's understandable to put a currency on Karma.)

     

    Faster XP is pay-to-win? The only thing you're doing is getting through levels 50% faster but that doesn't mean that in the end we won't be in the same state. Sooner or later we'll all be level 80 and doing something else. Plus most of the other "boosts" are found in mystic chests which are randomly dropped by creatures and opened with a key available from quests,  creature drops, or purchase. Although cash can be converted to gold which can be converted to guild influence, the amount of cash needed is so massive that a person deducted that if a guild wants to benefit from it for longer then a week they will have to spend hundreds or more $$ just for small, temporary buffs.

     

    Plus, they dont even have to spend $$, they could just spend the gold they grinded simply for the influence to get the same results. The gem-to-gold ratio is always fluctuation so its dependable when its worth it or not.

     

    As for your other paragraph. We have no means to just tell them they have no endgame and dislike them for that because we haven't even seen what they have for an endgame. We have, however, heard of Orr, plus the insta-80 PvP and continueing in WvW. Until we see the endgame for ourselves we can actually critisize them.

  • IstrebiteIIstrebiteI SpbPosts: 266Member

    OP has valid points, and i think theese "ISSUES" will be a boon rather than a curse.

    Entrance barrier? Hell yeah! Most normal communities have entrance barriers. If you dont have entrance barrier, if anyone can join you, then you're not something desired by others obviously. Of course, entrance barrier must not be a PAIN for newcomer, like in Dota you been called noob for not knowing all heroes/items/builds etc at day 1. Entrance barrier must not be something like Darkfall where until you grind max skills you get owned by "pros" who skilled up before you and thus are more powerful. But entrance barrier that requires you to read, to study, to learn - hell yeah. You cant read or dont have patience? GTFO from our game and go play some game for idiots. This game isnt for idiots and i love it.

    Marketing? You mean advertisment, really (because obviously ANet did part of the marketing in a sense they provide service that is demanded, they know their target audience etc). Dunno if english men have it, but russians have a saying that "Good stuff doesnt need to be advertised". Really, you dont advertise sugar, since people buy it anyway. You dont advertise bread (well, normal simple bread, not some overpriced supreme toast stuff). Well at least in russia, we dont.

    Advertisment is required when you need to convince people. I'm not saying its bad, but if your services/goods are useful, important, etc they dont need to be advertised - people will buy them anyway. You just need to make the information available - make a good website that describes your product, make good videos about it on youtube for those who like to watch and listen. Etc.

    WoW did not become popular because they convinced people they should play it - it was because people loved it and told friends, because they made a good game people enjoyed and they shared the enjoyment. And of course because they promoted sharing the enjoyment via friend recruit program. TV commercials for WOW is like a status symbol - like Coca-Cola or Malbro big advertisment stands that just show "we are number 1 company and can afford putting this huge stand in the center of the city" or something. Its show-off, its not cost-effective. When did we start seeing really many wow ads (like, play to 20 for free where those toons are dancing)? When WoW started losing subs.

    Cash shop? Yeah i agree with you on this one. Still, if a person is willing to discount the game, to find a flaw to say "i wont play it because it has X" - GTFO from our game, we dont need you, play some other game, its fine. Yea you NEED to be of sane mind and have some sort of logic going to learn about GW2 cash shop. If you believe that if someone said its P2W its true - then you're not welcome to play this game and its fine.

    This is something that destroyed WoW (and turned it into what it is now). Product DOES NOT HAVE TO CATER FOR EVERYBODY in order to be successful. Product has TARGET AUDIENCE and should only cater for THAT audience. If someone else is interested - they are WELCOME as long as they can still enjoy it. This happens all the time - like, 30-40 yr olds watching Tokusatsu (japanese tv action series about superheroes, this is what america ripped off to make and abomination called Power Rangers) - they watch it and spend money on toys/cds/dvds and Toei (company that does em) is fully aware of that, but they arent making the series more mature, more appealing to older people, becaue then 3-5yr old kids wouldnt have fun watching it anymore! Because kids are their target audience. If adults want to watch it - fine! But the product is going to cater for its target audience, not for "everybody".

    The more broad is your Target audience, the harder it is to make a complex, interesting, quality game. Op outlined it in first point - if you cater for those who dont know how to read tooltips, dont like studying builds and theorycrafting, you have to dumb down combat system like WoW's combat system. Then you cannot make awesome complexity they have in GW2 with combo skills, because noobs will not get it and will find it "confusing and hard".

    So yes, point is valid, and thats exactly why Guild Wars 2 will succeed in my opinion.

  • rykim86rykim86 winnipeg, MBPosts: 236Member
    Originally posted by Weretigar

     EA definatly made more then any other mmo to the date when it came to selling for the first month. Seeing facts makes me a minion. I already said i had a copy of gw2 didnt i? I definatly have more beta and stress test ss then you do on these boards.

    And why would we want GW2 to follow ToRs fate and become a desolate wasteland after one year?  NCSoft isn't a large as EA and isn't willing to throw cash into a furnace.

    And LOL.  I don't put up SS on these boards so now I didn't participate in beta?  Guess I'll have to put up my reciept of my CE pre purchase later.

    Even you yourself said the majority of pop doesnt visit the boards yet i am ignorant to expand? Seriously? It is a waste of money to try and bring in more consumers lol. Doritos has idie funded commercials at every superbowl couldnt be to hard for a no fail marketing game like this one to grease a few palms. 

    First off, comparing food snacks to video games. Bright lad we have here boys.

    Second, super bowl slots are filled years in advance.  

    Third, there's nothing wrong with trying to push into other demographics.  But for launch, doing a massive international campaign for a video game, especially in todays recession, is not the right move.  

    The first and foremost way to launch a title is through, oh I don't know...actual video gamers?  Websites, conventions, game shopts etc..  Hell, when I was at PAX in the last 2 years, ArenaNet had a large advertisement of GW2 on a truck driving around all day in Seattle.  

    And like I said previously, WoW did not start bill boarding and TV commercial advertising until years after it was launched.

    I dont know if your baiting or just specialy educated. It worked for every company thats tried it, or does anet meet some standerd because you love a game that isnt even released yet to much to know when somone else idea might be better?

    I'm still confused as to why it's all right for ArenaNet to cash in on GW2 and then leave it to die like, as you put it, other companies that have done it.  I don't know what your definition of "worked" is, but if a game is in ruins after a year or two...I don't consider that a good trade off.

    If you ask EA where money was wasted they are not going to say commercials.

    Of course not.  Like I said before, EA is a much larger company than NCSoft.  They're known for that style of advertising.   Not only that, those mass advertisements work well when you have one of the WORLDS LARGEST IP backing it up.  They're different.

    Just think about it.  It's not hard to understand my friend.

    An analogy is you asking a corner store to mark their prices and advertise like say WalMart does.  It's just not the same, even though both stores do the same thing in the end.

    And after ArenaNets beta sign up and their recent conference call talking about their pre-purchase/pre-order numbers...it's exceeded their expectations.  So I say they're satisfied on how they spread the word.

    Which is the bird.

     

     

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