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Don't you think it's time to remove "Free" from F2P?

2

Comments

  • KrelianKrelian GöteborgPosts: 369Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by hfztt

    So, if not f2p, what would you call League of Legends and Team Fortress 2?

    Ups...

    I guess there ARE f2p games out there done right...

    There are.........they are few in number, BUT there are.

  • Pratt2112Pratt2112 Mt marion, NYPosts: 1,535Member Uncommon

    Games with subscriptions are oftern referred to as Subscription, or Sub-based MMOs.

    In that vein, I see nothing wrong wtih referring to F2P with Cash Shop as "Microtransaction MMOs" or "MT MMOs"

    The freemium model MMOs, like LoTRO, DDO, etc... could be referred to as Freemium.

    Something like GW1 or GW2 could simply be referred to as B2P, or Buy-To-Play.

    In fact, a lot of those terms are used already. They're just not always used correctly and people tend to throw them around without thought to what they actually imply, such as people calling GW2 "F2P", when it clearly isn't.

    I mean, if we want to identify MMOs by their revenue model in that way, it's easy enough to simply refer to what the game's primary means of earning revenue is. Yeah there are "mix-and-match" combinations out there, but each MMO has a model that is its primary one, with other things being there as alternate revenue streams.

  • paroxysmparoxysm Nowhere, INPosts: 437Member

    And to think I got scolded for saying not everything in the MMORPG genre should be called an MMORPG.  HEH.

    To the topic, I think some of the F2P games should be called GCG/GCM (Gated Community Games/Model) or something with Gate in the name.  I say that because a lot of the F2P games don't allow you to play the entire game or have access to end game items unless you pay.  Money is the only thing that opens the gate.

  • TheocritusTheocritus Gary, INPosts: 3,734Member Uncommon
       I've played many MMOs for free since 2005 or so......If you're paying money for f2p games, then it is your choice...There is nothing in any of these games that forces you to pay...You pay because there is something you want....Dont blame these companies for using these business models...in the end, it is you that is spending the money.
  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member


    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    Originally posted by AlBQuirky  

    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    Originally posted by Ichman
    a quality f2p title will allow you to play fully without paying a dime.
    Can you explain the business model in that scenario?
    But I thought only a handful of players actually "paid" anything in most F2P games. They counted on "whales" to support the games. Is this not true? Are you suggesting that all these "I don't pay a cent!" posts about F2P games are just hyperbole?
    Well, AlBSnarky, how do the 10% and the 1% pay money if there's no cost for anything?  He presented a scenario that seemed to have no payment model. I was asking what he was considering for a revenue source, not questioning established practice.
    Duly and deservedly chastised. I misread Ichman's intent.

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • miguksarammiguksaram Fort Meade, MDPosts: 826Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

     


    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    Originally posted by Ichmen
    a quality f2p title will allow you to play fully without paying a dime.

    Can you explain the business model in that scenario?
    But I thought only a handful of players actually "paid" anything in most F2P games. They counted on "whales" to support the games. Is this not true? Are you suggesting that all these "I don't pay a cent!" posts about F2P games are just hyperbole?

     

    As far as the business model goes... "Vanity Items" seem to be a popular thing pointed to as acceptable in a cash shop. Mounts, potions, "grind eraser items", and the like could also be popular to players. Lots of things devs can create and sell to players :) A player doesn't have to buy the items, but they are there if they feel the need, or a players wants to support the game they are playing.

    I would like to point out that while Aion's F2P model might be great for the consumer it has "proven" to be a poor choice for the producer/distributor.  Another quarter like the one listed in the link provided and I wouldn't expect to see the current F2P model to remain in place for much longer.

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/08/08/ncsoft-weathers-6m-loss-in-q2/

    A quote from the link, "Aion was also blamed for the company's financial woes, as revenues in that title sharply decreased due to fewer microtransaction sales."

    Too many fish, not enough whales.

  • CecropiaCecropia The Great White North, ONPosts: 3,471Member Uncommon

    A free to "play" game would mean to have the ability to play the entire product for free. That simply does not exist. Essentially what we have here with the "F2P" model, is the ability to "dip your toes in" for free (or sometimes a wee bit more, woohoo!). It boils down to "free to try". If you desire to actually go for a swim for real, you're going to have to open up your wallet. Bottom line. For my taste, a fair flat rate makes much more sense. This should be a fucking no brainer.

    After observing this industry for many years, it would appear that this payment model is simply a symptom of a horribly stagnated genre. There is such a lack of quality fresh ideas and intelligently designed mechanics that few games truly justify a monthly fee anymore. Instead, we have an excess of disposable games that attempt to do nothing more than squeeze the sponge.

    It aint pretty, but sooner or later, something's gotta give.

    "Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,452Member Uncommon

    The problem with the use of f2p is that it's not entirely right and not entirely wrong.

    f2p games ARE f2p. One can download and play it. However, there are barriers set in place in such a way that players are encouraged to spend a little money to remove them or to make things a bit more sane in some situations.

    There is not one f2p game that I know of that one can't download and "play for free". However that doesn't mean that everything is available or that things will progress easily or that all areas are accessible.

    It means one can play it for free but run into barriers here and there.

    It's somewhat misleading but not entirely untrue.

     

  • ajayazirajayazir RC, BCPosts: 108Member
    I like paying for pixels, money needs to go somewhere right!?
  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,452Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ajayazir
    I like paying for pixels, money needs to go somewhere right!?

    When you buy a game you are "paying for pixels".

    And when you buy music you are paying for sound waves. Hmmm, and when you watch a movie you are either paying for pixels and/or paying for light waves.

     

  • ZaltarkZaltark Lockhart, TXPosts: 421Member

    I like PAG. It sounds offensive. Just like most F2P games are.

  • hundejahrehundejahre Chicago, ILPosts: 339Member

    I think sites like this need to start charging for Original Posts, that would cut down on so much wasted bandwidth.

  • SouldrainerSouldrainer Elmer, NJPosts: 1,857Member
    I like "Micro Transaction" over F2P.  The reason?  The word "Free" is entirely misleading.

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  • WarmakerWarmaker San Diego, CAPosts: 2,231Member
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

    In the truest sense of the term, free to play is just that. One can play the game and not spend a wooden nickel. There are many games that follow this model.

    Where the model gets a bad name is from companies that restrict a player until they HAVE to pay something to play.

    Wizard101 is a prime example of this. You can play for free as long as you wanted. Unfortunately, in their very linear game, you had to clear 5 areas in the starter zone to advance to the next zone. They locked out 2 of those zones until you paid something for each zone, or bought a sub. Technically, yes, you can play the game for free. You can play the same 3 areas over and over and over for free as long as your heart desires. You can even fill all of your 6 character slots. And play the same three areas over and over and over.

    Vanguard, EQ, and EQII are all "free to play" games. You can play through the games without spending a wooden nickel. However, SOE places restrictions on what you can play from the get go. In essence, most of the game is free to play. I happen to enjoy playing Bards. In every one of these games, bard type classes are pay to play. And SOE likes to use the slogan "Free to play. Your way." That is a lie. I cannot play the character (a bard type class) *I* want for free.

    As far as I know, Nexon games offer truly F2P games. I have played a few, but not for very long. (None of them grabbed my interest.) I did not run into restrictions in these games. There may be some, I just may not have played long enough to encounter them.

    "F2P" is viable term, I think. Unfortunately, it gets abused by too many gaming companies. It ends up with a bad name.

    Something I want to add to your examples.  The F2P design where the developers, as the levels progress, begin to throw increasingly larger obstacles at the player to push the player to purchase from the item shop.  A great, old example I saw was XP requirements for the next level.  In the beginning, progression felt fast.  Naturally you run into some slowdown.  Then at some level where the player has typically invested alot of time, the XP requirement skyrockets.  I'm talking ridiculous, multiplied levels of XPs compared to before.  Before that massive jump, XP potions were available, but you felt they weren't needed.  You progressed fast enough.  Then when the increasingly larger mountains of XP requirements begin to take their toll on the player, those XP potions that you need to pay for are looking more and more tempting.  It's like the game slapping a player and forcing them to look at and purchase from the item shop.

    Oh, by all means, the game is still technically "free."  You CAN keep playing through the mountains of gameplay obstacles, but if you really want to enjoy the game and not be weighted down by these specifically designed hassles, you need to pay up.

    So much for free...

    "I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)

  • WarmakerWarmaker San Diego, CAPosts: 2,231Member
    Originally posted by miguksaram
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

     


    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    Originally posted by Ichmen
    a quality f2p title will allow you to play fully without paying a dime.

    Can you explain the business model in that scenario?
    But I thought only a handful of players actually "paid" anything in most F2P games. They counted on "whales" to support the games. Is this not true? Are you suggesting that all these "I don't pay a cent!" posts about F2P games are just hyperbole?

     

    As far as the business model goes... "Vanity Items" seem to be a popular thing pointed to as acceptable in a cash shop. Mounts, potions, "grind eraser items", and the like could also be popular to players. Lots of things devs can create and sell to players :) A player doesn't have to buy the items, but they are there if they feel the need, or a players wants to support the game they are playing.

    I would like to point out that while Aion's F2P model might be great for the consumer it has "proven" to be a poor choice for the producer/distributor.  Another quarter like the one listed in the link provided and I wouldn't expect to see the current F2P model to remain in place for much longer.

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/08/08/ncsoft-weathers-6m-loss-in-q2/

    A quote from the link, "Aion was also blamed for the company's financial woes, as revenues in that title sharply decreased due to fewer microtransaction sales."

    Too many fish, not enough whales.

    Regarding your link:  Kind of scary for NCsoft that their biggest moneymakers, the Lineage I & II games, are more than 7-8 years old, and for as many MMORPG titles that have come out under the NCsoft name, none have yet to replace any of them.  Lineage I makes 45% of their money?  With Lineage II next in line with 13%?  Wow...

    "I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)

  • ajayazirajayazir RC, BCPosts: 108Member
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by ajayazir
    I like paying for pixels, money needs to go somewhere right!?

    When you buy a game you are "paying for pixels".

    And when you buy music you are paying for sound waves. Hmmm, and when you watch a movie you are either paying for pixels and/or paying for light waves.

     

    Almost exactly! Sometimes just buy the games to own the box! Money needs to be SPENT!

  • jmcdermottukjmcdermottuk LiverpoolPosts: 976Member Uncommon
    I'd have to go with Free To Try, because at some point you know it's going to cost you money, but that normally comes later in the game.
  • centkincentkin Asbury, NJPosts: 943Member Uncommon

    It almost needs a few monickers.

    I mean there are games that are "Free to Lose" meaning a pvp game where you will be slaughtered unless you pay money.

    Then there are "Free to Try" games where it is perfectly fine to play for free for the first 30% of the game -- then the mechanics shift and if you either can not procede (games with lower caps for f2p) or you are slowed to a snails pace if you don't pay or it becomes really BAD if you don't pay.

    Then there are "Limited Free to Play" games -- where you get to pick 4 classes out of 20 and can't use any items that you would want to use -- or where boxes drop with uber loot but the keys you have to purchase from the cash shop to open them... but you can if you are willing to deal with it, make it to the end.

    Then there are the normal old-style free to play games -- where you actually CAN play free.   You might have is fewer bag spaces, gain a little less exp (say 20% less), and other little things to annoy you -- but it doesnt significantly hinder you at the end.

    ----

    Any game where paying over $100 per month makes you godlike compared to people paying $20 per month should also get the monicker P2W (pay to win).

     

  • MumboJumboMumboJumbo LondonPosts: 3,221Member

    NAG: "Not A Game" - because a free-to-play game will be nag, nag, nag every few minutes for you to pay up!

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon

    I really don't get what all this fuss is about.

    It's called free to play (f2p) because the games cost you no money to be able to play the game. And get this, none of the f2p games on the market require you to pay money to play the game.

    Now, I find it really hard to believe that anyone would seriously believe that a video game as costly as an MMO, would have absolutely no way of earning revenue. As such I have a real hard time buying people who feel 'duped' by the f2p model, or think it's misleading. If someone's only experience w/ f2p games was basically Allods, then I could understand, but there are a wide range of f2p implementations of varying degree. Not all f2p games try and force you into buying basic needs on the cashshop. There are games like DDO, CO, DCUO, that do it fairly well. You can play the game, but if you want more access to the game you need to cough up at least a little cash.

    When you think about it, it's not even all that different from a subscription model in some ways. The business model (f2p) doesn't guaruntee you'll have a good play experience, or a long lasting game; just as a subscription model doesn't guaruntee this either. The funny thing is, if a game sucks and is f2p, the only things lost to you are time. You didn't have to spend a dime. If a sub game sucks, you've wasted time, and a lot of money. However, for some reasons people are intrinsically 'okay' with wasting money on a bad game, then playing it for free and finding out it's bad. Makes perfect sense...

  • rdrakkenrdrakken Gotham, FLPosts: 426Member

    I hate all of your options, so i'll post my own.

    How about we stop calling Freemiums F2P and leave F2P for actual F2P games instead?

    A F2P game is 100% free with a shop that has items you can buy, if you want to buy them...Freemiums are partially free and can only be unlocked by buying it from a shop or subbing.

  • snapfusionsnapfusion San, CAPosts: 954Member

    I guess the F2P crowd also thinks its free to drive on a freeway because they didnt have to drop a quarter on the on ramp.  They have already paid the price long before and long after they log into their favorite F2P.

    There will be a bunch of people that will read this and have no idea what Im referring to.

  • kiltakkiltak Austin, TXPosts: 103Member

    Here the deal even with the microtransactions you're still going to save money in the long run. Look at WoW, you pay $15 dollars a month but you only get two maybe three real big content updates a year, the rest is just them fixing aspects of the game. That means you spend $180 dollars a year just to play WoW. However a lot of games you spend money to expand Inventory slots, bank slots, money slots, extra character slots, as well as new content. You basically expand what you want. It usually is far cheaper because while it might come out a bit more then $180 dollars at least you never have to spend money again other then content updates.

    I think it silly that developers ask use to pay $15 dollars a month but we really get nothing but fixes to game that we should be getting for free. I'd rather pay as I go. That is just my opinion.

  • rdrpappyrdrpappy Hamilton, OHPosts: 325Member

    SF2P = Some Free to Play, you know some character slots, some inventory space, some auction features, some content.

    Ya the F2P title may be a little missleading in some situations, and it does many times mean limited quality and limited maintenance by the developer.

  • erictlewiserictlewis Cottondale, ALPosts: 3,026Member Uncommon

    I hate the words free to play. It is a lie.   While you might be able to log in for free,  you will not be able to do certain things based on the type of freemium that games have.

    Some games soe related lock out races, lock out armor, lock out weapons, and spells.  So you either pay to unlock those or you subscribe,  thus not free at all.

    Other games using turbines model lock out raids, instances and so forth, as well as a couple of premium races.  You have to unlock those as well.

    Nothing is free in life ever.   Sure there will be folks who log in play around and never pay a dime, but those who really want to play the game will pay.   So you will have the deadbeets and the real players.

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