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Don't you think it's time to remove "Free" from F2P?

FadedbombFadedbomb Aiken, SCPosts: 2,081Member

I've been of the opinion ever since the "F2P" movement started that the word "Free" in "F2P" is a disrespectful lie given to players from developers. Speaking from an Adult's perspective, and developer, NOTHING is EVER "Free".

 

So how do we go about this? Well there are a couple options we can choose to tell developers "No More!".

 

If I left a popular option out (since I do tend to forget things) please post a reply with what you think, or go ahead and reply with your opinion :D!

 

I chose: "MTs" for "MicroTransactions"

 

 

:)

The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.

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Comments

  • thekid1thekid1 GroningenPosts: 789Member

    I voted CSS (not CS2)

     

    But I think you CAN have a free to play game where the cash shop is entirely optional.

    Team Fortress 2 from Valve is a good example.

  • IchmenIchmen Winnipeg, MBPosts: 1,228Member

    its free in that you do not have to buy the game installer or pay a monthly fee for it. 

    so in that regard it is free to play it. the item mall is just a gambler's addiction though. like slots once you start you find it hard to stop, where by you spend more per day/week/month on cash shops then you would with a monthly fee lol. 

    a quality f2p title will allow you to play fully without paying a dime. others will trap you in to having to pay just to play it.  so changing the term wont work across the board.

     

    no two f2p titles are published the same. :/

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  • FadedbombFadedbomb Aiken, SCPosts: 2,081Member
    Originally posted by thekid1

    I voted CSS (not CS2)

     

    But I think you CAN have a free to play game where the cash shop is entirely optional.

    Team Fortress 2 from Valve is a good example.

    Well i didn't want to put "CSS for Cash Shop Supported" because then it'd start confusing people with that acronym between CountrStrike:Source etc. Which is why I did CS2 :P!

    The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
    Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.

  • ste2000ste2000 londonPosts: 4,697Member Uncommon
    Obviously "Pay as you Go" since you are paying for part of the content.
    Also there are real F2P MMO, they are all Asian though. Westener developers prefer to con their customer by charging for content which supposedly should be "Free"
  • FadedbombFadedbomb Aiken, SCPosts: 2,081Member
    Originally posted by Ichmen

    its free in that you do not have to buy the game installer or pay a monthly fee for it. 

    so in that regard it is free to play it. the item mall is just a gambler's addiction though. like slots once you start you find it hard to stop, where by you spend more per day/week/month on cash shops then you would with a monthly fee lol. 

    a quality f2p title will allow you to play fully without paying a dime. others will trap you in to having to pay just to play it.  so changing the term wont work across the board.

     

    no two f2p titles are published the same. :/

    Every "Free to Play" title currently has game design elements that apply HEAVY restrictions if you do not buy something from the store as opposed to someone who does. F2P games are built around the idea of you spending something so they make money. They're a business, and they want money!

     

    What "Quality F2P" title have you experienced that did what you're talking about? Don't say LOTRO, they don't let you experience the game "fully" without paying a dime.

    The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
    Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.

  • FadedbombFadedbomb Aiken, SCPosts: 2,081Member
    Originally posted by ste2000
    Obviously "Pay as you Go" since you are paying for part of the content. Also there are real F2P MMO, they are all Asian though. Westener developers prefer to con their customer by charging for content which supposedly should be "Free"

    Have you played any of those "Asian" MMOs that are F2P? I ask in all seriousness because I've tried every single one of them, and the game eventually (usually around 40% through the game) that the game gets so grindy that if you do NOT purchase exp boosters from the store you cannot progress without spending 20hrs per day grinding just to level up once a week.

    That stops being "Play" and becomes "Job to Progress".

    The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
    Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.

  • ste2000ste2000 londonPosts: 4,697Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Fadedbomb

    Originally posted by ste2000
    Obviously "Pay as you Go" since you are paying for part of the content. Also there are real F2P MMO, they are all Asian though. Westener developers prefer to con their customer by charging for content which supposedly should be "Free"

    Have you played any of those "Asian" MMOs that are F2P? I ask in all seriousness because I've tried every single one of them, and the game eventually (usually around 40% through the game) that the game gets so grindy that if you do NOT purchase exp boosters from the store you cannot progress without spending 20hrs per day grinding just to level up once a week.

    That stops being "Play" and becomes "Job to Progress".

     

    Well you are supposed to play a game.....that's the point.
    If you don't have enough time you have the OPTION to cheat and level faster, but it is your choice.
    XP Potion are a shortcut, but you have no restriction whatsoever unlike any of the Westener MMOs.
    If you don't want to pay, then you have to play longer, I think it is fair.
    In Western MMO you HAVE to pay for content which otherwise is forbidden, and there is no alternative to that, not even playing 24 hours you can access that content.
    All developers have to make money, and the Asian system is much more honest than what our developers shove in our throats.
  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member

    In the truest sense of the term, free to play is just that. One can play the game and not spend a wooden nickel. There are many games that follow this model.

    Where the model gets a bad name is from companies that restrict a player until they HAVE to pay something to play.

    Wizard101 is a prime example of this. You can play for free as long as you wanted. Unfortunately, in their very linear game, you had to clear 5 areas in the starter zone to advance to the next zone. They locked out 2 of those zones until you paid something for each zone, or bought a sub. Technically, yes, you can play the game for free. You can play the same 3 areas over and over and over for free as long as your heart desires. You can even fill all of your 6 character slots. And play the same three areas over and over and over.

    Vanguard, EQ, and EQII are all "free to play" games. You can play through the games without spending a wooden nickel. However, SOE places restrictions on what you can play from the get go. In essence, most of the game is free to play. I happen to enjoy playing Bards. In every one of these games, bard type classes are pay to play. And SOE likes to use the slogan "Free to play. Your way." That is a lie. I cannot play the character (a bard type class) *I* want for free.

    As far as I know, Nexon games offer truly F2P games. I have played a few, but not for very long. (None of them grabbed my interest.) I did not run into restrictions in these games. There may be some, I just may not have played long enough to encounter them.

    "F2P" is viable term, I think. Unfortunately, it gets abused by too many gaming companies. It ends up with a bad name.

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Yes they should be called Micro payment to play or something.
  • GorillaGorilla Posts: 2,202Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ichmen

    its free in that you do not have to buy the game installer or pay a monthly fee for it. 

    so in that regard it is free to play it. the item mall is just a gambler's addiction though. like slots once you start you find it hard to stop, where by you spend more per day/week/month on cash shops then you would with a monthly fee lol. 

    a quality f2p title will allow you to play fully without paying a dime. others will trap you in to having to pay just to play it.  so changing the term wont work across the board.

     

    no two f2p titles are published the same. :/

    No. It's unreasonable to expect to play a game in its entirety completely for free. I favour a DDO type approach personally. You pay for expansions but they are 'micro expansions'. Who funds games development your way? 

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,633Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ichmen

    a quality f2p title will allow you to play fully without paying a dime.

    Can you explain the business model in that scenario?

     

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,860Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Fadedbomb

    Speaking from an Adult's perspective, and developer, NOTHING is EVER "Free".

    There is your problem.

    The term does not imply that there are no payments at all or that the game makes no money from people playing it.

    F2P - no payment upfront for access to the game.

  • ReizlaReizla AlkmaarPosts: 3,293Member Uncommon

    Kinda a hard one to answer with a poll IMO. Every company uses it's own Free2Play model. Let me illustrate by some examples:

    $O€ provides their games as F2P, but in fact they are Free2Login. Without adding a subscription-plan to their games, it's kinda pointless to play their games (EQ2 is the main example of it)
    Turbine provides LotRo and DDO as Freemium (a rather good description I think). These games are more a Pay As You Go model with a CashShop Support. Or you take a subscription and you have the full game at your disposal. An other good thing is that when you grind you ass off, these games can be truly Free2Play
    NCSoft provides Lineage II (and I think Aion as well) as truly Free2Play. Just signup, download and you have the whole game at your feet without even having to pay a penny. But the game is CashShop Supported, dropping you a shitload of fluff items as well as consumables in all sorts.

    There you have almost all your poll options included in only 3 examples of games available...

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  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member


    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    Originally posted by Ichmen
    a quality f2p title will allow you to play fully without paying a dime.
    Can you explain the business model in that scenario?
    But I thought only a handful of players actually "paid" anything in most F2P games. They counted on "whales" to support the games. Is this not true? Are you suggesting that all these "I don't pay a cent!" posts about F2P games are just hyperbole?

    As far as the business model goes... "Vanity Items" seem to be a popular thing pointed to as acceptable in a cash shop. Mounts, potions, "grind eraser items", and the like could also be popular to players. Lots of things devs can create and sell to players :) A player doesn't have to buy the items, but they are there if they feel the need, or a players wants to support the game they are playing.

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • Superman0XSuperman0X San Jose, CAPosts: 1,571Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

     


    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    Originally posted by Ichmen
    a quality f2p title will allow you to play fully without paying a dime.

    Can you explain the business model in that scenario?
    But I thought only a handful of players actually "paid" anything in most F2P games. They counted on "whales" to support the games. Is this not true? Are you suggesting that all these "I don't pay a cent!" posts about F2P games are just hyperbole?

     

    As far as the business model goes... "Vanity Items" seem to be a popular thing pointed to as acceptable in a cash shop. Mounts, potions, "grind eraser items", and the like could also be popular to players. Lots of things devs can create and sell to players :) A player doesn't have to buy the items, but they are there if they feel the need, or a players wants to support the game they are playing.

     

    It is true that only ~5% (in US) of the players pay anything at all in F2P games. Some of them pay much more than others, and this is how it covers the cost (there is not much real cost in bandwith and servers anymore) of everyone playing.

     

    As Ichmen requested.... you would play FULLY without paying a dime. This includes vanities. The only thing specified in this request is that there be no 'spender only' exclusives. Everything would be achievable in game... but he didnt say that that same content could not also be sold directly.

     

    Want to gring to L100? It may take a year, spend $ now and shorten the time.

    Want that shiny new sword? You can raid for it, and hope to get the drop, or spend $ now (have a chance) to get it instantly.

     

    This is what was proposed.

  • TechinsteinTechinstein Charlotte, NCPosts: 10Member
    I disagree, because if you go to a F2P game site it well usually have a thing that you can clcik that says what does it mean to be F2P. And they tell you, also I kind of like the MTs idea, but maybe add it to make it F2P+MTs.

    image

  • JaedorJaedor Denver, COPosts: 1,140Member Uncommon
    I think F2P is a good acronym, and LOTRO is an excellent example of how to do it right. Never need to spend a dime all the way to cap.
  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member


    Originally posted by Superman0X
    As Ichmen requested.... you would pay FULLY without paying a dime. This includes vanities. The only thing specified in this request is that there be no 'spender only' exclusives. Everything would be achievable in game... but he didnt say that that same content could not also be sold directly.
    I see what I missed. Thank you for the clarification :)

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,635Member Uncommon

    I agree the use of the word 'free' is shadey to say the least, but it won't ever change. It is just too essential to the smoke'n'mirrors illusion that the rev model needs to suceed.

     

    It's all about marketing, and people calling your game 'free' (even when it isn't) with every breath and attaching that false reality to your product all day every day is worth literally billions.

     

    I would just call them 'RMT' games, but the industry would hate that because it sounds too much like what it really is.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,633Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

     


    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    Originally posted by Ichmen
    a quality f2p title will allow you to play fully without paying a dime.

    Can you explain the business model in that scenario?
    But I thought only a handful of players actually "paid" anything in most F2P games. They counted on "whales" to support the games. Is this not true? Are you suggesting that all these "I don't pay a cent!" posts about F2P games are just hyperbole?

    Well, AlBSnarky, how do the 10% and the 1% pay money if there's no cost for anything?  He presented a scenario that seemed to have no payment model. I was asking what he was considering for a revenue source, not questioning established practice.

    As far as the business model goes... "Vanity Items" seem to be a popular thing pointed to as acceptable in a cash shop. Mounts, potions, "grind eraser items", and the like could also be popular to players. Lots of things devs can create and sell to players :) A player doesn't have to buy the items, but they are there if they feel the need, or a players wants to support the game they are playing.

    Vanity items are popular here on MMORPG.com as a cash shop item because they are pointing to the content that they wouldn't buy or that is unimportant to them. Again, I was asking what he proposed for his scenario, not questioning a monetization system that I am more than familiar with. To your point, however, several of those items you listed are regularly contested as 'need' items. Accelerants or boosters being the most common, often presented as the iconinc Pay to Win item.

     

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • CaldrinCaldrin CwmbranPosts: 4,533Member Uncommon

    Technically they are free to play, you dont ahve to pay anything to play the basic game.. but like anyone companies are out to make money not just entertain you for free..

    So it should stay f2p i dont like f2p as such as i dont like the idea of cash shops but there we go..

     

  • VermilioNomyVermilioNomy SomewherePosts: 32Member

    Sorry but F2P sounds good to me, it means you can play the game without spending a dime on it.

    Unless we're talking about people under 15 years old, I find it unnecessary to change the term "F2P". Everyone knows these days that F2P includes some sort of limitation or most likely a Cash Shop.

    I truly don't see a problem with using the term F2P, everyone knows you can "donate" to them in one way or another and in exchange you can receive certain bonuses/items/gifts as a "Thank you for your donation/contribution kind lady/sir."

  • VrikaVrika FinlandPosts: 2,576Member Uncommon

    Free to play is misleading. The game's publishers are trying to convince customers that they are playing for free, yet at the same time their only source of income is payments made by those people playing for free. But I'm not under illusion that people who like a F2P game, or publishers of that game, would admit that the game is really not free to its players and change the label. To counter this, I propose inflating the F2P -term by using it with every possible game, no matter the payment method and costs, until the term becomes meaningless.

    WoW is F2P because once you pay the necessary game, expansion packs, monthly fees, vanity mounts, etc. the game costs nothing else to play. Also GW2 is FP2 because once you pay the box costs and costs of cash shop items the game costs nothing else to play.

     

  • KrelianKrelian GöteborgPosts: 369Member Uncommon

    ''Free to play'' but mostly; ''pay to enjoy''. And in MY experience, f2p usually ends up costing MORE THAN what p2p costs on a monthly basis (ca 15$ a month).

    So it should be called: FTP B PTE... ? :P

  • hfztthfztt GlostrupPosts: 839Member Uncommon

    So, if not f2p, what would you call League of Legends and Team Fortress 2?

    Ups...

    I guess there ARE f2p games out there done right...

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