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Why/How is Alganon still running?

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Comments

  • JergisJergis Tulsa, OKMember Posts: 37

    -DC has put out a *lot* of product for games, both successful and complete failures, over hte last few years to raise revenue. Just ask anyone at your LCS about their standards and it isn't what i would consider a boom or bust scenario.

    FYI and all that, just because DC's brand is on it does not mean it was expensive nor a good idea.

    Jergis

  • fallonfallonfallonfallon heber springs, ARMember Posts: 99

    I tried alganon about a week ago again for the 3rd time..To me a community can literally make or break a game. I play mmo's for a reason. If i wanted to solo play i would just play The Witcher 2 or somthing. Thats exactly what it feels like when playing Alganon.. A single player console game. Maybe once they expand the IP ..the europe server will get a descent community to join.

    I will definetly check it out...The game doesnt seem to be that bad other than the population itself..so i keep checkiing on it every once in awhile. I dont really understand how they are getting the funding for these things up and coming though..Maybe they sellin weed..lmao! idk..jk!

     

    BTW WoW isnt going f2p..just the trial is going to be unlimited thats all. Still the same old trial version.

  • DapyxDapyx BucharestMember Posts: 10

    Originally posted by dbstylin34

    this game doesnt even deserve a comparison to wow in any way,shape or form. its embarrassing this game can even be classed as an mmorpg..

    Well, it isn't a mmorpg, as mmorpg stands for massivelly multiplayer online role playing game and alganon is neither massivelly nor multiplayer. 

    Is just another team of non professionals trying to make a mmorpg and failing royally at it.

  • dsmartdsmart Florida, USAMember Posts: 358 Uncommon

    A comic will make or break a game? Seriously? I mean, where do you get this stuff from?

    Saying that money going into a comic - which is a marketing expense btw - should go into game development is like saying you shouldn't market a game at all. That's just silly and since everyone thinks that they have all the answers, silly opinions like this are the result.

    Fact is, Ricardo Sanchez (the writer) and I go way back from when he was at Turner GameTap where we worked together. I ran into him at GDC this year and we got talking. In the end, he showed me the Rift comic (Telara Chronicles) he worked on while he was at Trion Worlds and it seemed like a good marketing idea to promote Alganon. So he got in touch with DC, they said they were interested in doing it. The rest is history and the Alganon comic (story based on the upcoming expansion pack) was born.

    DC gets to distribute it as they do other game based comic properties e.g. San Diego ComicCon, New York ComicCon, their iPad store etc. We also get copies for promotional purposes. And due to how the story was written, In can requisition additional volumes if I decide to do so.

    So for me, it is a marketing expense that cost about as much as the six month PC Gamer full and single page ads cost. So either I take out ads or I do a comic. It is all about what I want to do with my marketing budget. I decided to do something different. So comic it was.

    Simple.

    People who are rooting for a train wreck are usually disappointed when their preconcieved disaster doesn't happen. So I know that because Alganon is still around, it burns those who were hoping that it will fail. It boils down to  this: those very same people are forgetting that I ran into the same sort of derision with my first game back in 1996 when it was released prematurely by its then publisher. I'm still here.

    Again, if you don't like the game, don't play it. This is just a game that I want to see succeed and I will continue to do my best to make that happen. If you're sitting around waiting for it to fail (hence shutdown), you have a pretty long wait because considering the low overhead, even if I fired the entire team tomorrow, the game is already 100% finished and self-sustaining. To the point that putting it into maintenance mode just means that it will keep running as long as I can afford to pay for the servers. There are lesser games out there still running; ever wondered why that is?

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  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember Posts: 22,788 Epic
    Actually, I decided to give the game a try, to sort out the truth from the fiction. But that will be a thead of it own on what I find there.

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  • MadDemon64MadDemon64 Maplewood, NJMember Posts: 1,102 Uncommon

    Originally posted by dsmart

    A comic will make or break a game? Seriously? I mean, where do you get this stuff from?
    Saying that money going into a comic - which is a marketing expense btw - should go into game development is like saying you shouldn't market a game at all. That's just silly and since everyone thinks that they have all the answers, silly opinions like this are the result.

    Easy: you need to balance spending money on development and advertising.  If you spend a lot of money on advertising but little on development, the end product is junk that everyone knows about and that everyone knows is junk.  If you spend a lot of money on development but little on advertising, you get gold that few people know about.  This comic is, story aside, advertisment for the game, plain and simple.  By putting money into this comic, you are putting less money into development than you would if you just payed for a simple advertisement.  If the comic works, you will attract more people who are likely to pay for the game and give you more money for development (maybe double or more than what you paid for the comic).  If it doesn't, then you will not get half what you paid for the comic, and your game will suffer all the more for it.


    Originally posted by dsmart



    People who are rooting for a train wreck are usually disappointed when their preconcieved disaster doesn't happen. So I know that because Alganon is still around, it burns those who were hoping that it will fail. It boils down to  this: those very same people are forgetting that I ran into the same sort of derision with my first game back in 1996 when it was released prematurely by its then publisher. I'm still here.

    As I said in a previous post, I wanted Alganon to fail because I saw it as a horribly made WoW clone, but now I am starting to root for it.  Sadly Smart, every time you post something like this that is obviously an attack on people like me, you make me hate Alganon not for its quality, but because your name is attached to it (please do not take this as a flame).


    Originally posted by dsmart



    Again, if you don't like the game, don't play it. This is just a game that I want to see succeed and I will continue to do my best to make that happen. If you're sitting around waiting for it to fail (hence shutdown), you have a pretty long wait because considering the low overhead, even if I fired the entire team tomorrow, the game is already 100% finished and self-sustaining. To the point that putting it into maintenance mode just means that it will keep running as long as I can afford to pay for the servers. There are lesser games out there still running; ever wondered why that is?

    I do not know how true that statement is, but even if it was 100% true (not that I am saying it isn't), I still have doubts that Alganon can compete with all the existing and upcoming f2p games.  Already the list is quite long, including Perfect World, Forsaken World, Runes of Magic, Second Life, Allods Online, SMT: Imagine, Champions Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, and Lord of the Rings Online.  Add to that the fact that City of Heroes is going to be free soon, as well as the already existing unlimited free trials of Warhammer Online and World of Warcraft, and you might soon find your servers devoid of any players at all.  While I wish you luck on the comic, I fear that it might be too little too late.

     

    Since when is Tuesday a direction?

  • JimyHumuHumuJimyHumuHumu BilbaoMember Posts: 251 Uncommon

     Alganon is not f2p. Lotro is f2p, runes of magic is f2p, blabla. alganon is more of a free trial than f2p. other than that, once population picks up i would love to try it, as 10$ isnt really that much :P but with so many f2p games, most peopel wont even try it, as long as youre bound to spend money on it, im afraid.

     

    player/ guild housing sounds nice. actually thats what made me check alganon at the first place (well its forums at least) is housing instanced?

    i figured the game is not that popular, which is imo reasonable considering how many 'real' f2p games are out there, restrictive f2p wont cut it anymore. heck, im sure even AoC (not saying its a better game, its just.. bigger game :D) wont have as much success as lotro has with its different approach to f2p.

    Im sure every developer wants its game to succed, and also believes its the best thing out there... but lets get real, there are some 500-1000 mmos out there, majority of them is f2p (not trials) and to attract any interest your game has to be, well if not better, it has to be at least different than others.

    so how does alganon stand out? other than being self declared wow clone, for which you also have to pay for to advance past some stage, with really low population? Dont get me wrong, i dont expect everything for free, but todays MMO market offers just that, free with options to either purchase cash shop stuff in game from other people (RoM, Allods etc) or earn it by playing (LoTRO). Im not sure but does alganon offer either to f2p players? Beacause for you, as a dev/host doesnt really matter if player A or B buys stuff from your shop, as long as it sells its all good :P 

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Manchester, NHMember Posts: 3,429 Uncommon

    Originally posted by JimyHumuHumu

     Alganon is not f2p. Lotro is f2p, runes of magic is f2p, blabla. alganon is more of a free trial than f2p. other than that, once population picks up i would love to try it, as 10$ isnt really that much :P but with so many f2p games, most peopel wont even try it, as long as youre bound to spend money on it, im afraid.
     
    player/ guild housing sounds nice. actually thats what made me check alganon at the first place (well its forums at least) is housing instanced?
    i figured the game is not that popular, which is imo reasonable considering how many 'real' f2p games are out there, restrictive f2p wont cut it anymore. heck, im sure even AoC (not saying its a better game, its just.. bigger game :D) wont have as much success as lotro has with its different approach to f2p.
    Im sure every developer wants its game to succed, and also believes its the best thing out there... but lets get real, there are some 500-1000 mmos out there, majority of them is f2p (not trials) and to attract any interest your game has to be, well if not better, it has to be at least different than others.
    so how does alganon stand out? other than being self declared wow clone, for which you also have to pay for to advance past some stage, with really low population? Dont get me wrong, i dont expect everything for free, but todays MMO market offers just that, free with options to either purchase cash shop stuff in game from other people (RoM, Allods etc) or earn it by playing (LoTRO). Im not sure but does alganon offer either to f2p players? Beacause for you, as a dev/host doesnt really matter if player A or B buys stuff from your shop, as long as it sells its all good :P 

     

    Lotro isn't really F2P, it's an interesting hybrid with many people still paying subscriptions.  You can apparently grind enough points to unlock everything but it takes a lot of time, which is a commodity whose value varies from person to person.

     

    Runes of Magic is P2W.  You can level to max with both specs but if you want to do endgame it's going to cost you.

     

    I absolutely agree that Alganon is an extended trial and I don't think it's a good model.  It sounds reasonable, but Alganon doesn't exist inside of a vacuum and it has to compete with the games you named as well as others.  They need to let players reach max level without spending money and get them to spend money after that.  It's what their competition is doing.  Maybe charge a one time fee for the expac, sell new dungeons, vanity items and such.  At this point they need players, then they need to give them enough to keep them playing and willing to pay for new content.

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Manchester, NHMember Posts: 3,429 Uncommon

    Originally posted by MadDemon64



    Easy: you need to balance spending money on development and advertising.  If you spend a lot of money on advertising but little on development, the end product is junk that everyone knows about and that everyone knows is junk.  If you spend a lot of money on development but little on advertising, you get gold that few people know about.  This comic is, story aside, advertisment for the game, plain and simple.  By putting money into this comic, you are putting less money into development than you would if you just payed for a simple advertisement.  If the comic works, you will attract more people who are likely to pay for the game and give you more money for development (maybe double or more than what you paid for the comic).  If it doesn't, then you will not get half what you paid for the comic, and your game will suffer all the more for it.

     

    I have to disagree with you to a point.  Alganon needs bodies playing the game.  They absolutely need to keep advertising somewhere and most likely at a MUCH larger budget.  At this point, continuing to advertise in PC Gamer probably isn't going to get them many people.  I doubt the comic will, but I also don't know where they could advertise and get people interested.

  • ArEfArEf LiverpoolMember Posts: 233

    I'm genuinely amazed that they're still pumping money into this game. It's like pumping blood into a corpse, you're not going to end up with anything but a lot of wasted blood and a corpse.

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  • kakasakikakasaki Lockhart, TXMember Posts: 1,205 Uncommon

    Originally posted by ArEf

    I'm genuinely amazed that they're still pumping money into this game. It's like pumping blood into a corpse, you're not going to end up with anything but a lot of wasted blood and a corpse.

    But, in the end, their blood and their corpse. They can do as they please. image

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  • bbbmmmlllbbbmmmlll Reno, NVMember Posts: 79

    I still don't think QoL has figured out who their customers are. A comic distributed at ComicCon strikes me as targeting the wrong demographic. These people have discretionary income and are very social. They're going to be willing to spend money and want to play a game that a lot of other people are playing. Great customers if you can get them, but what's the attraction for them to play Alganon?

    What is the number one reason to play Alganon? I've always thought the strengths were a rich backstory and being casual gamer friendly. I wish they would focus on these areas. Become the mmorpg with the deepest story and most casual gamer friendly experience. Build features around the backstory such as RIFT's artifact system and simplify the game play and interface even more. If you're in a highly competitive market, you've got to find something that sets you apart. Something that you're the best at.

    Anyhow, good luck.

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Manchester, NHMember Posts: 3,429 Uncommon

    Originally posted by bbbmmmlll

    I still don't think QoL has figured out who their customers are. A comic distributed at ComicCon strikes me as targeting the wrong demographic. These people have discretionary income and are very social. They're going to be willing to spend money and want to play a game that a lot of other people are playing. Great customers if you can get them, but what's the attraction for them to play Alganon?
    What is the number one reason to play Alganon? I've always thought the strengths were a rich backstory and being casual gamer friendly. I wish they would focus on these areas. Become the mmorpg with the deepest story and most casual gamer friendly experience. Build features around the backstory such as RIFT's artifact system and simplify the game play and interface even more. If you're in a highly competitive market, you've got to find something that sets you apart. Something that you're the best at.
    Anyhow, good luck.

    I think they were trying to target people that hadn't heard of their game but might try it.  Whether it was money well spent I have no idea.

     

    There's absolutely no way that a brand new IP can have the deepest backstory when there are games based on existing IPs with much deeper backstories like LOTR, Star Wars, Warhammer and Conan to name a few.

     

    I agree that they need something that sets them apart.

  • OmaliOmali MMO Business Correspondent Orchard Park, NYMember Posts: 1,169 Uncommon

    Originally posted by FrodoFragins


    Originally posted by bbbmmmlll


    I still don't think QoL has figured out who their customers are. A comic distributed at ComicCon strikes me as targeting the wrong demographic. These people have discretionary income and are very social. They're going to be willing to spend money and want to play a game that a lot of other people are playing. Great customers if you can get them, but what's the attraction for them to play Alganon?
    What is the number one reason to play Alganon? I've always thought the strengths were a rich backstory and being casual gamer friendly. I wish they would focus on these areas. Become the mmorpg with the deepest story and most casual gamer friendly experience. Build features around the backstory such as RIFT's artifact system and simplify the game play and interface even more. If you're in a highly competitive market, you've got to find something that sets you apart. Something that you're the best at.
    Anyhow, good luck.

    I think they were trying to target people that hadn't heard of their game but might try it.  Whether it was money well spent I have no idea.

    Precisely. Since the game has as low of a barrier of entry as possible (no client fee + no subscription), the only direction they can go is outward, by advertising the game. The article in PC Gamer was a success (at least as I've been told) and having a comic by DC Comics will probably net a good amount of attention as well.

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  • bbbmmmlllbbbmmmlll Reno, NVMember Posts: 79

    Originally posted by FrodoFragins
    There's absolutely no way that a brand new IP can have the deepest backstory when there are games based on existing IPs with much deeper backstories like LOTR, Star Wars, Warhammer and Conan to name a few.

    You're right. I was thinking more along the lines of adding features that catered to those sorts of interests.  Like the artifacts from RIFT, backstory in game books like you find in a lot games, letting players become part of the story like I think they did when the game first launched along the lines of unique items, quests or locations that have character names/stories attached to them. Maybe this is a bad idea as backstory isn't really my thing. I'm just trying to figure out what makes Alganon special. But we're in agreement that they need to find it and emphasize it.

     

     

     

  • kakasakikakasaki Lockhart, TXMember Posts: 1,205 Uncommon

    Wow. Been quiet on here. How's the game going?

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  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Manchester, NHMember Posts: 3,429 Uncommon

    I judge an MMO based on how long I play before quitting.

     

    WOW - gradually reached level cap on vanilla and then discovered the life suck that is raiding.

    LOTRO - gradually reached level cap on vanilla.  Raced on expansions

    AoC: Only started playing when they went F2P.  Lost interest in the gateway of Khitai area around level 34

    Forsaken World:  Been playing a few days and am at lvl 24, will probably stick with it until I need to grind levels

    Runes of Magic: Dual leveled to around 20 and got bored.  Leveling two classes became very tedious

    EQ2: Bought on release to ease WOW boredom and quit in the teens.  I really just didn't like how the game felt or looked.

    Alganon: Couldn't stand it after about 6 levels.  Wonky animations, movement and combat.  It's like WOW with severe brain trauma.

     

    The F2P market is really competitive and I expect games like Star Trek Online and Warhammer to join the ranks in the next year.  Add in two big budget games that are likely to take a million+ subscribers away from the juggernaut WoW and it's not looking good for this IP.

     

    Games like Rift and to a lesser extent Forsaken World have had success with cloning WOW.  Alganon really didn't have the budget to try that route. 

  • StrafingmirStrafingmir Ballwin, MOMember Posts: 24

    Warhammer and Rift are generally the only games i view as Competition to WoW. As much as i've flamed and been flamed at by Smart in the past, no i wont reveal my identity. Alganon got a bad wrap, it's not bad. From the sounds of it it's being fixed and was an absolute mess before the investors grabbed the reins to stear it in a profitable direction.  A year or so and it could be a prime contender in the F2P with a Cash shop market.

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Manchester, NHMember Posts: 3,429 Uncommon

    Originally posted by Strafingmir

    Warhammer and Rift are generally the only games i view as Competition to WoW. As much as i've flamed and been flamed at by Smart in the past, no i wont reveal my identity. Alganon got a bad wrap, it's not bad. From the sounds of it it's being fixed and was an absolute mess before the investors grabbed the reins to stear it in a profitable direction.  A year or so and it could be a prime contender in the F2P with a Cash shop market.

    A year or so from now? 

     

    I've never heard of a struggling F2P game later becoming successful.  P2P games can change to the F2P model and garner success, but Alganon already went through that change and it didn't seem to make a big difference.  They'd possibly get more players if they changed their model so that players can level to the cap but need to buy content or cosmetics at max level.  Their current model is almost identical to WOWs free trial, you just get an extra ten levels in your trial.

     

    I'd be curious to hear why you think Alganon can turn things around.  What does it offer that would get people to play it instead of AoC, DDO, LOTRO, Runes of Magic, Allods or Forsaken World?

  • KeyloggerKeylogger Bumblefuck, TNMember Posts: 250

    I think it's release during the hay-day of that other title had more to do with Alganon's current state than a lack of entertainment value.

     

    I really enjoyed the beta and intended to buy it.

    Honestly!

     

    Which is unusual for me.

     

    I should add - that at the time there were no major or relevant flaws in my opinion, the game ran fine, looked fine and was pretty standard-fair MMO content but "new."

  • ThorqemadaThorqemada BerlinMember Posts: 1,282 Uncommon

    Alganon is technically way behind its competition (at best it feels like a 2002 game), was badly mismanaged by the original game director and is based on wrong market predictions (trying to get into the most competed market in the mmo space, the wow-fantasy-clones).
    A fundamental tenfold better game like Rift can not scratch WoW a lasting scar and struggles ahead with maybe 200k of players so Alganon may be lucky if it has 20k.
    Though, when the game is done and the servers running the upkeep is manageable if you write off to get a significant roi.

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  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAMember Posts: 10,910 Common


    Originally posted by Cinatrot
    I think it's release during the hay-day of that other title had more to do with Alganon's current state than a lack of entertainment value.I really enjoyed the beta and intended to buy it.Honestly!Which is unusual for me.I should add - that at the time there were no major or relevant flaws in my opinion, the game ran fine, looked fine and was pretty standard-fair MMO content but "new."

    This is what I've heard about the game from others. It's fine for what it is, but there is a lot of what it is out there to choose from.

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  • KothosesKothoses GalwayMember Posts: 843 Uncommon

    In fairness the turnaround in quality of product is noticable in relative terms to where it was before our occasionally antagonistic friend took over.

     

    If you dont mind my saying as a watcher and bit part commentator on the MMO Scene what Alganon really needs is 2 things right now.

     

    A Re-imaging and I dont mean in the terms of the new batman films, but image sticks in public perception some more focused community outreach and co-ordination could do wonders to help turn around the perceptions (right or wrong) of this games trajectory.  As momentum is everything when it comes to getting player buy-in (Time and emotionwise which is what matters more, cash will follow these regardless) the perception of a downward trajectory is one that will not benifit anyone.

     

    A unique selling point, what is Alganons unique selling point, what part of its experience will bring me away from my comfort zone challenge me as a player and give me that "First mmo feeling" which is what everyone is chasing.

     

    These are the questions I would look to answer, and Mr Smart I have watched your good and bad debates over the past few years and if you dont mind me saying, the calmer approach you are showing now is a fantastic step up from the facades of the past.  I hope people give you another chance and I hope you prove that this is a consistent change, but my advice to you would be get some one onboard who can really reach out and build a pro-active community for you.  Because all the content in the world wont buy you that on its own.

     

    I wish you and QOL the best of luck in moving to an upwards trajectory and getting something back from this because the fact it is still going is a testiment to the fact that the peeople behind the scenes do care about the game.   

     

    I hope... this change of tact isnt just temporary for the current convention season but a sign of a more stable and balanced approach to community and public relations.  Anyway good luck!

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  • sr7olsnipersr7olsniper Alhambra, CAMember Posts: 206 Uncommon
    way to bring a thread back from the dead

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