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[Column] The Secret World: A Complex Issue for Funcom

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  • Agent_JosephAgent_Joseph SarajevoPosts: 1,070Member Uncommon

    prolly ,TSW ll be F2P next year after first expansion , it is Funcom business model,look AO

     

    F2P isnot sight of faillure ,it is simple new trend in mmo market and easy way for get money

     

    only EVE is real MMO...but I am impressive with TSW

  • s1fu71s1fu71 fair oaks, CAPosts: 220Member

    I very much agree with the section of "The Informed Consumer."

    There are so many games I would have never tried if I only read reviews.

    And many times I've been pleasantly surprised. This game is one of those times.

    I've always wanted a modern horror game to play. And the first horror stories I ever read

    were, Lovecraft.

    It's not about fighting, it's about balance. It's not about enlightenment, it's about balance. It's not about balance.

  • RazeeksterRazeekster Solon, MEPosts: 2,201Member Uncommon
    One of the reasons Funcom isn't doing as well as expected is because many people are scared to give Funcom another chance after other mistakes they've made. I'm one of those people who isn't willing to waste money on a company that's had a bumpy history. 

    Smile

  • Xstatic912Xstatic912 New York, NYPosts: 365Member
    @ Jaedor

    it is a good game but just like Eve it wasn't gonna appeal to the masses like they were hoping. I just wish the guys who made this game were independent like Trion, so they would have been ok carving out a little piece of the mmo market for itself and can survive off that...
  • BarCrowBarCrow Tampa, FLPosts: 2,212Member
    Originally posted by Tibernicus
    Originally posted by TalulaRose
    Originally posted by Tibernicus
    Originally posted by TalulaRose
    Originally posted by Dakirn

    This was a good article.

     

    I'm so tired of hearing people wishing that a game will fail.. they don't even take into consideration what they're asking for.  They're asking for hundreds of employees to lose their jobs and ability to provide for their families.. simply because they don't "like" the game or have some deep set grudge against the company because of a game you played 5 years ago.

     

    If you don't like a game, state your reasoning and move on.. don't spend your time bashing the game and wishing for failure.  It doesn't help the industry at all.

     

    MMO developers have to be some of the most selfless people on the planet to work such long hours for very average pay to make a game that so many people end up hating, wishing for the failure or of wishing personal bodily harm to those who work on it.

     

    It's sad to read so much, especially on this site.. especially in an industry where something "new" is rare.  Everyone wants a company to try something different and then hope for their failure at the same time.

    This site needs to start doing a better job at moderating its community. Most of the times its a band wagon mentlity of trashing a game for lolz.

    Trashing a game because it's a bad game.

    We hope for games to fail so that there's a positive change in the industry. Those developers will ultimately be the ones to suffer either way, so long as publishers that don't know what they're doing are dictating what the devs are making.

    When I first came to this site I was like..this is amazing...now I can find a new MMO. Started reading the reviews...not bad......read the user comments and was......is any game worth playing? For the first few months I had the impression that 99%of the games listed on this site were trash. I thought this was strange and tried the games that interested me. 

    Now I think that 99% of the user comments are trash.

     

    You're coming from a point of ignorance. What you deem as "trash" comments are usually made by Veteran MMORPG players who judge modern MMOs by the same standards as old MMOs. And compared to old MMOs, modern MMOs are SEVERELY lacking in the features that make an MMO an MMO. Most are shallow, uninspired, generic, and boring. But to someone new to the genre, they may be enticed for a time.

    He's not coming from ignorance. He's coming from experience. He tried the games despite the comments and apparently found some games unworthy of the poor comments. Doesnt matter what the commentors mindsets are...how old they are..or how THEY judge games. It matters to Talularose how Talularose judges a game. He probably judges them by whether he likes them, has fun, or not and judges comments from others about a game on whether he agrees with them or not. At least..if he's like me he does.

  • erictlewiserictlewis Cottondale, ALPosts: 3,026Member Uncommon

    Well if anybody has ever read my rants in the past about failcom  you know how I feel about failcom.  

    However I was at a friends house he showed me the game, and I went and picked it up.  I am only playing 2-3 days out of the week as kind of a curiosity.

    The game is ok,  however compared to aoc it is great.

    The only problem is funcom still has the failcom word attached to it.  And if it goes free to play well that just shows they missed the target audience they were aiming for.

    I have subscribed but it is not my main mmo by a long shot.  I still play eq2 as my main game and tsw is no even in the same arena as soe.

     

  • GruntiesGrunties Worcester, MAPosts: 859Member
    Originally posted by jdnyc

    You sir are the problem.  You're exactly what the first part of the article is talking about.

    I can never understand anyone whom takes gaming and companies so serious and with such venom.

    Ethics and accountability are very important concepts in many walks of life, including the business world. They are not unique to gaming companies by any stretch. They have far reaching implications and they serve an important function for maintaining a positive business and customer relationship. If someone prefers to ignore those things because they only care about having another game to play, thats their perogative. My opinion is that such a position is selfish and shortsighted, but to each their own I guess.

    If people who care about those things are the problem I would hate to hear what you think the solution is...

    Waiting for: A skill-based MMO with Freedom and Consequence.
    Woe to thee, the pierce-ed.

  • CassSmithCassSmith ParkesPosts: 17Member

    F2P can be done appallingly with no regard to the player past being a cash cow, these are the games that are doomed to fail, however.... it can be done really well also, with the attitude of pumping out all they can for the player to keep their interest.

    I love TSW to death but my one issue with it is that it requires university knowledge/research skills, unless you use a walkthrough...... I used to love this but it seems investigation missions have got increasingly hard, they were fun in Kingsmouth/Savage Coast, other than the story component, I sadly cant say the same for Egypt.

  • jdnycjdnyc Long Island City, NYPosts: 1,696Member
    Originally posted by Grunties
     

    If people who care about those things are the problem I would hate to hear what you think the solution is...

    Forums shouldn't be a venue for personal axes to grind.  Save that for your blog.  :)

  • LelariolLelariol Padova, AKPosts: 32Member
    Funcom devs should stop aiming at the sane and smart part of mmorpg community, since that part is so small and so less vocal than the majority to be near non existing... Trying to put some "culture" and thought into this genre is a useless effort. I feel sorry for them.
  • laseritlaserit Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,952Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lelariol
    Funcom devs should stop aiming at the sane and smart part of mmorpg community, since that part is so small and so less vocal than the majority to be near non existing... Trying to put some "culture" and thought into this genre is a useless effort. I feel sorry for them.

     Kinda like expousing the virtues of "National Geographic" to someone who watches "Jersey Shore" and "Tots with Tiares"

    Damn sure I spelled that wrong ;)

    "If you make an ass out of yourself, there will always be someone to ride you." - Bruce Lee

  • GruntiesGrunties Worcester, MAPosts: 859Member
    Originally posted by jdnyc
    Originally posted by Grunties
     

    If people who care about those things are the problem I would hate to hear what you think the solution is...

    Forums shouldn't be a venue for personal axes to grind.  Save that for your blog.  :)

    Its funny that your unedited post had a comment about moderating posts with personal attacks, and then you edit it to say something like this :)

    Waiting for: A skill-based MMO with Freedom and Consequence.
    Woe to thee, the pierce-ed.

  • lotapartylotaparty taxila canttPosts: 514Member
    so if the game fails .will the author of this article give us our money back ? you said no? i guessed so . i am not an idiot . author should not biased and in reality should not be a fanboy of any game . unfortunately thats what companies are hiring .

    image

  • GrumpyMel2GrumpyMel2 Catskills, NYPosts: 1,832Member

    Victor,

     

     

    I'll give you my personal skinny on TSW. I was extremely psyched about it, right up until the moment that I got the opportunity to try the beta. At which point I pretty much knew I wasn't going to be playing it. Frankly I didn't even bother playing the beta beyond a day or two. Here are the main points that drove me away from it:

     

     - I'm a guy armed with an assault rifle, so why is combat playing out pretty much like every fantasy themed MMO I've ever played. You could remove the assault rifle graphic and substitute in a bow or wand of magic missles and you really wouldn't notice the difference. Don't get me wrong I LOVE the idea of a modern/horror/sci-fi MMO, but as far as combat goes, TSW wasn't one. The standard vanilla MMO combat mechanics work perfectly well for fantasy based MMO's where you are dealing with swords and bows and magic. But once you go to a modern/sci fi theme and start dealing with things like assault rifles and shotguns, etc....that paradigm starts to break down. The player wants to actualy FEEL like they are using modern weaponry. Having those kind of armaments in a game actualy is a BIG DRAW to attract different types of players, but you THROW THAT AWAY if you aren't actualy using mechanics that reflect them. IMO, TSW should have gone with more of a 1st person style shooter mechanic. Maybe something like Fallen Earth did (who's combat really shines, IMO). That way you get the kind of combat that reflects the era and style of weapons being used....and for the horror portion you get the immediacy of experiencing it in the 1st person. You WANT the players to feel creeped out about whats lurking behind them just outside thier limited field of view...you WANT people constantly turning around to see what's behind them.

     

    - Absolutely nothing in the origional portion of the game says, "GO OUT and interact with other players". One of the big highlights of this type of game is the level of social interaction it can foster. But in the beginning experience you feel completely disconnected from other players.

     

    - Themematically the thing that makes Horror work as a genre is that you SLOWLY build suspense. You give SUBTLE little hints that things aren't quite. Somethings a little bit off, but you can never quite put your finger on what it is. There's just a small hint here or there for the player to follow...a mystery for them to solve....and they never quite know when something will jump out of the shadows at them. Pyrotechnics in the opening cut scene and inky black tenticals all over the place and subway stations floating off into an abysss in the first experience of the game is kinda like bringing Frodo to Mt. Doom in the 1st chapter. You've wasted all the dramatic elements that could be used to build the experience.  The Developers should have read some Stoker or Mary Shelly or Lovecraft before going to work on this...or watched some classic horror movies (House on Haunted Hill, The Fog, Salems Lot, etc) or even played some of the really good older single player horror games (Silent Hill) to get a feel for how to build a narrative for this type of genre. Instead it felt more like Buffy the Vampire slayer meets Freddy Kruger.

     

    Essentialy, as far as I was concerned, they took a really AWESOME concept for a game and completely astro-turfed the execution. YMMV.

  • KuppaKuppa Boulder, COPosts: 3,292Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Fadedbomb
    Originally posted by Kuppa
    The aricle was OK. But I could not stand your f2p rant, I just don't agree with it. You basically made the f2p transition look like the greatest evil that could happen to a game.

    "Free to Play" IS the greatest evil that could happen to a game that was DESIGNED around PayToPlay.

     

    PayToPlay demands higher quality than FreeToPlay games do, and the rise of "Sub + CashShop" is even further pushing the envelope for bad products. If your product is good, and you know it's good, you won't ask more than $15/month. EvE knows they're a "niche" product, but they also know that they're a damn good one for the niche that they're in so they only charge $15/month and give FREE expansions.

     

    You think TSW would do $15/month + FREE expansions? Heck no, TSW isn't a quality enough product for full & true "PayToPlay". TSW was designed around the idea of immediate cash flow from P2P+CashShop+Boxes for the first year, and then a transition to "F2P" next year (or later this year) to sustain the product. Don't believe me? Wait a couple more months for the announcement. TSW is as themepark as an MMO can get, and linear themeparks have a hard time keeping content up to pace with even "Casual" gamers unless they cater to every age range & type of person like WoW has and are mega-huge-successful money wise.

     

    If you build a game from scratch AROUND the concept of a "Cash Shop" then you can go the 'Free'-To-Play route because then you're never considered a failure like SWTOR, but you're also not a good product.

     

    I've NEVER played a "F2P" product that was developed around the idea of "F2P" from the start that was worth a single dime. The only playable "F2P" titles out now were actually P2P failures that went F2P to keep from closing down, and they're the only "F2P" titles out now that are half-playable.

     

    We need a different name for "Free To Play" as the word "Free" is wholefully misleading, and quite frankly "F2P" is a lie entirely, nothing is EVER free.

     

     

    So LoL is not a good product and is not worth a single time? Definately do NOT agree.

    image


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  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,647Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kuppa
    Originally posted by Fadedbomb
    Originally posted by Kuppa
    The aricle was OK. But I could not stand your f2p rant, I just don't agree with it. You basically made the f2p transition look like the greatest evil that could happen to a game.

    "Free to Play" IS the greatest evil that could happen to a game that was DESIGNED around PayToPlay.

     

    PayToPlay demands higher quality than FreeToPlay games do, and the rise of "Sub + CashShop" is even further pushing the envelope for bad products. If your product is good, and you know it's good, you won't ask more than $15/month. EvE knows they're a "niche" product, but they also know that they're a damn good one for the niche that they're in so they only charge $15/month and give FREE expansions.

     

    You think TSW would do $15/month + FREE expansions? Heck no, TSW isn't a quality enough product for full & true "PayToPlay". TSW was designed around the idea of immediate cash flow from P2P+CashShop+Boxes for the first year, and then a transition to "F2P" next year (or later this year) to sustain the product. Don't believe me? Wait a couple more months for the announcement. TSW is as themepark as an MMO can get, and linear themeparks have a hard time keeping content up to pace with even "Casual" gamers unless they cater to every age range & type of person like WoW has and are mega-huge-successful money wise.

     

    If you build a game from scratch AROUND the concept of a "Cash Shop" then you can go the 'Free'-To-Play route because then you're never considered a failure like SWTOR, but you're also not a good product.

     

    I've NEVER played a "F2P" product that was developed around the idea of "F2P" from the start that was worth a single dime. The only playable "F2P" titles out now were actually P2P failures that went F2P to keep from closing down, and they're the only "F2P" titles out now that are half-playable.

     

    We need a different name for "Free To Play" as the word "Free" is wholefully misleading, and quite frankly "F2P" is a lie entirely, nothing is EVER free

    So LoL is not a good product and is not worth a single time? Definately do NOT agree.

     

    The bottom line is that, if we accept that this model is actually 'free', going 'F2P' does not make these failed games any more fun.

     

    If I wanted to play TSW I would be playing it. I would have paid for the client. If the folks that did buy it found it more then a month's worth of fun, they would be paying the £10 for another to keep on playing the game. The reason I didn't, and so many of them didn't, is because the game isn't fun enough for the majority. It is a ragged around the edges snooze fest with moments of 'that's cool'.

     

    It's the game that's the issue, not the rev model.

     

    The devs need to stop blaming the payment model (or metacritic!! or whatever else...) for their fails and face up that they simply need to make better games.

     

    Ones we find fun enough to not mind spending money on. 

     

     

     

  • VaporsVapors Fr.Posts: 407Member Uncommon
    can't read mmorpg comments anymore xD everyone just tries to bash out his oppinion like theres nothing better:D
  • DakirnDakirn Kansas City, MOPosts: 374Member Uncommon

    I'm not sure why I was hoping the OP's point would get across.. but I guess it's too late to stop the insanity of the pure hatred that exists here.  Just look at how many people felt the need to belittle the game in a public spotlight (even if they have never played it at release, don't plan on playing it or have no interest in it what so over).. even if the article wasn't about the game itself.

     

    Any excuse to bash the "cool game to bash" at the time I guess.  There was very little TSW bashing at all until Suzie started doing articles and then the waves of negativity started coming in and destroying the forum.

     

    Eventually the hateful mobs will move on to the next "cool game to bash" and the cycle will start again... but not until after the damage is already done.  The wonderful anonymous internet damage that nobody thinks about.

     
  • XAPKenXAPKen Northwest, INPosts: 4,940Member Uncommon

    I don't see any storyline mode MMORPG having longevity without dedication to PVE endgame.


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now turned Amateur Game Developer.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  Realm Lords 2 on MMORPG.com
  • JaedorJaedor Denver, COPosts: 1,140Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Dakirn

    I'm not sure why I was hoping the OP's point would get across.. but I guess it's too late to stop the insanity of the pure hatred that exists here.  Just look at how many people felt the need to belittle the game in a public spotlight (even if they have never played it at release, don't plan on playing it or have no interest in it what so over).. even if the article wasn't about the game itself.

     Any excuse to bash the "cool game to bash" at the time I guess.  There was very little TSW bashing at all until Suzie started doing articles and then the waves of negativity started coming in and destroying the forum.

     Eventually the hateful mobs will move on to the next "cool game to bash" and the cycle will start again... but not until after the damage is already done.  The wonderful anonymous internet damage that nobody thinks about.

     

    Agree. It's really sad. Thank you for saying it.

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,787Member Uncommon

    F2P i only evil when its pay to win, and much more evil when companies fail as P2P and make it freemium and force free players to buy content to progress further in game.

    I would say to FunCom and other devs/publishers, keep the price on the box, remove the subscription, keep a decent and fresh cash shop AND stay away from the freemium model and free limitations.....

    hopefully the success of GW2 will teach the greedy companies to look gamers as gamers, not as brainless zombies with full wallets.

     

    edit: by buying content to progress further in game i dont mean expansion, i mean stop locking content that is already in game to free players

     
     

    image
  • KiljaedenasKiljaedenas New Westminster, BCPosts: 468Member
    Originally posted by rojo6934

    F2P i only evil when its pay to win, and much more evil when companies fail as P2P and make it freemium and force free players to buy content to progress further in game.

    I would say to FunCom and other devs/publishers, keep the price on the box, remove the subscription, keep a decent and fresh cash shop AND stay away from the freemium model and free limitations.....

    hopefully the success of GW2 will teach the greedy companies to look gamers as gamers, not as brainless zombies with full wallets.

     

    edit: by buying content to progress further in game i dont mean expansion, i mean stop locking content that is already in game to free players

     
     

    F2P is pay to win almost 100% of the time. There are some people who wouldn't mind buying purely aesthetic stuff for their characters/house/whatever in a game, but the vast majority of players won't give up so much as a penny for something that doesn't give them at least some kind of tactical or logistical benefit, and that is pay-to-win. It is simple, historical fact; that is human nature. Why pay something for errant decorative fluff in a game when it will have no real impact whatsoever in your ability to play?

    Where's the any key?

  • thamighty213thamighty213 NewcastlePosts: 1,630Member

    Of course had nothing to do with the 10000's who said the animation system was atrocious 3 years ago and were assured it was simply a placeholder system.

     

    If TSW had looked good from an animation perspective I and I'm sure the 10s of thousands of others who repeatedly raised this would have indeed purchased it, I enjoyed the rest of the game but I simply could not get past just how atrocious the combat system was as a visual user experience.

  • lotapartylotaparty taxila canttPosts: 514Member
    Originally posted by thamighty213

    Of course had nothing to do with the 10000's who said the animation system was atrocious 3 years ago and were assured it was simply a placeholder system.

     

    If TSW had looked good from an animation perspective I and I'm sure the 10s of thousands of others who repeatedly raised this would have indeed purchased it, I enjoyed the rest of the game but I simply could not get past just how atrocious the combat system was as a visual user experience.

     i agree with your brother

    image

  • AeolronAeolron Ottawa, ONPosts: 648Member
    I agree with this article whole heartily! Very good write up and I agree with the f2p model. I actualy prefer paying a monthly sub because I know it helps funds future content and the salaries of the devs, and just because a company released a game that SOME people didn't like they refer back to "failcom" just shows you how much education and experiences these people have, little to none. I also agree to play a game to try it for yourself and not read these so called professional reviews, actualy I don't consider them professional reviews , why you might ask? How is it that their personal opinion is better than yours? It isn't because it's based on pure opinion and speculation. Most of the time these people don't play that many games and are trying to get the so called "review" out so they can get onto the next one, that's how these guys get paid more reviews in a timely manner. A prime example would be the movie 300 it got terrible reviews, but the public loved the movie making it a ton of money, so grain of salt people, one review may vary greatly from the other.

    I am also a firm believer that nothing is free in today's world. So those f2p games seem like you are playing for free but in truth it is really costing you a lot more then a sub fee, yes TSW had a shop. It only clothes and titles, that's it no PTW bs here , but if the game went f2p it most likely will end up PTW and that we attract the cheap people who have a issue in spending 15 a month then the true supporters of the game that pony up that 15 a month to support their game and the company that they love, I know that's what I do. So think on this article with a clear mind and a solid grasp of how going f2p will hurt and effect the people working at Funcom, and stop bashing a company because of one product you don't like , and if your that guy who must say "Failcom" then don't post here and go find something else, perhaps your Xbox or ps3? Mmos are not meant for you, but the people like myself who have been supporting/ paying for them for over a decade. That's my two cents on the matter.
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