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B2P and Cash Shop is now acceptable?

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  • MosesZDMosesZD Kirkwood, MOPosts: 1,383Member
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by Lucioon

     

     And all the informations regarding the Cash Shop has already been told. Its no Secret what is in GW2 Cash Shops. There is really nothing to wait and see, its all available for everyone to see right now atm.

    theres a big unknown for how rare Mystic keys will drop in game

    some people claim the keys are rare and thats what makes the store P2W

     

     

    So far the treasure has been crap.   You're not going to get me to buy a Black Lion Chest.   Turning into some animal for 10 minutes...   Not paying for that.   Minor buffs that I can't really get a solid value out of?   Nope...

     

     

  • bookworm438bookworm438 Detroit, MIPosts: 647Member
    Originally posted by rygard49

    Let me start by saying that I'm against cash shops in any game that you purchase outright to play, not just the GW2 shop, so please don't take the body of this post to mean that I'm attacking GW2.

    I feel like many people only defend this particular cash shop because they love the game so much. To them, I say it's okay to love the game and dislike the idea of a cash shop. For those pro cash shop people, here are my responses to the major arguments for it:

     

    • You don't have to use it.
    Yes, I know I don't have to use it. That doesn't make it's existence any less intrusive on my gameplay experience. I don't like having to pay convenience fees in any form, and that's exactly what they're doing with reduced bag/bank space and limiting character slots. They have designed the game from the ground up with a cash shop in mind, and the only way to have a successful cash shop without being pay to win is to make the game just inconvenient enough to keep people playing, but to strongly encourage small sales to decrease the inconvenience.
     
    Except the game isn't inconvienient at all. Maybe for some people, but everyone I've talked is cruising right along in the game. The games rewards stupid amounts of exp for everything from rezzing people to just finding a point of interest. You can gain 7 levels just from explore 4 of the major cities. And then crafting rewards a lot of exp as well. 
     
    There is no reduced bag space actually. You have about just as much as most other games out there. You've got 5 slots, 1 for our starter bag, and 4 for whatever you want. There are 20 slot bags at level 80. So on your own character you have 100 slots available. Then you have 30 slots in your bank. Then you have a separate tab for your materials, which you can send mats to from anywhere in the world. Plus you can post to the TP from anywhere in the world. 
     
    I'm use to limited character slots because I played GW1. I should mention that not even P2P games have unlimited character slots. Generally the cap is between 7-10 characters per server. In GW2, the server architecture is different, so your account is basically across every server. I can see a problem for those who are true altoholics, but I'm betting those are a minority. 
     
    Not to mention you can purchase things from the CS with in-game gold. And most of the boosts are obtainable in game.
     
    Finally, going back to your first point "any less intrusive", I have found this cash shop to be very unintrusive. In fact, I barely know it's there when I'm playing. The only thing that reminds me about it is when I go to the trading post and I can see an icon for the cash shop. I don't even feel compelled to spend money in there. I don't get how someone else purchasing something affects you personally? You aren't disadvantaged in anyway, and in most cases you'll never notice.
     
    • Other games are B2P with sub and cash shop.
    So those other games are run more greedily, and that makes this particular cash shop somehow okay by comparison? Many of you HATE the Box Price/Sub/CS combo, and yet won't bat an eye to use it to defend the cash shop in this game. It's a bit hypocritical.
    You aren't paying for the game monthly. So, in general, people are a little more willing to accept a CS. And nothing in this CS is required to play. Anyone calling this CS "P2W" is fooling themselves, and I honestly think those people don't know what "P2W" stands for. Right now, there is nothing P2W in the cash shop. Could that change down the road? Unlikely, but of course it could. As of right now, the only thing that I may spend more money on is character slots, and even then it won't be until exhaust the current 5 character slots available.
     
     
    • It's a business, they have to make money.
    I agree with this argument actually, but there's a difference between trying to make an honest buck for your labors, and trying to turn your customers into a cash faucet, which is what many MMOs are trying to do nowadays, and the cash shop is definitely a tool that facilitates this.
     
    Many of us are under the mistaken assumption that if we contribute to the cash shop, then somehow that translates into more, better game content in the future. In truth, a large portion of those contributions are going to go toward more, better cash shop content.
    Personally, I'm under no delusion that the money I spend on the CS will go towards development of the game. And I'm prefectly OK with that. They aren't forcing me to spend a cent in there, and they provided me with an avenue to purchase something without actually spending a cent. 
     
    And ALL companies will do whatever it takes to get you to spend more money. Their approach is different, but their end goal is the same. Anyone who thinks companies aren't greedy at all and want to get you to spend as much money as possible is foolish. The difference is that ArenaNet is taking a mild approach. It's also a very smart approach. When you feel like you aren't being forced to spend anything, you tend to be a little looser with your wallet. It's smart business.
     
     
     
    TL;DR: For me, cash shop and B2P is not acceptable in any game, not just GW2.

    For me, Cash shop is acceptable in any game. I don't give a crap that a P2P game, F2P game, or B2P game has a cash shop. As long as it's not interfering with my ability to play a game, does it really matter?

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Personally, sometimes I think some people need to stop worrying about what other people are buying and just mind their own business. If Sally wants to spend $20 bucks in a cash shop, what does it matter to everyone else? As long as you aren't forced to purchase anything in there in order to actually progress, your good. If you don't feel it's right to spend any more money on a game than what you already did, then don't. It's honestly that's simple. ArenaNet hasn't gimped your character. You have a lot of storage. Obviously you don't have a lot in the beginning because you're only level 5. You have yet to be able to get better bags. And things drop like candy in this game. So when you are playing the game, you perceive that your character is gimped in the storage area, when in reality, items just drop like crazy. 

    The only legitimate claim people have against the cash shop, I think, is character slots. And even then, a very good argument can be made in favor of selling more character slots. 

     

    Which goes back to an earlier post in this thread. There are two types of people here:

    1) People who hate cash shops

    2) People who don't mind cash shops

    No matter what people do, they won't be able to convince each other. I am personally #2, I just don't care about cash shops. 

  • Eir_SEir_S Argyle, NYPosts: 4,623Member
    I don't think he should have been reported unless it was for beating a dead horse.  His argument getting trampled is enough for me.
  • heartlessheartless Brooklyn, NYPosts: 4,993Member
    Originally posted by MosesZD
    Originally posted by bookworm438

     

    Um... nobody said WoW is crap. People are pointing out that WoW is a P2P game that has a cash shop as well. Also the mounts do provide an advantage comparable to any advantage GW2 CS provides. Mounts you buy in WoW are instantly unlocked for every character in the game, so you never have to worry about spending gold on mounts. You only need to worry about purchasing the training. 

    My question for those complaining about character slots, how many characters do you really have? How many characters do you actually focus on. Other than a few select people, most people only focus on a couple characters. I'm not talking about creating 5 alts and having them all sit at level 12. I'm talking about legitimately creating alts that you will spend time on and level. 

     

     

    Raises hand...   Yeah, that'd be me.   I have 8 characters in GW1 (I have all the campaigns plus EoN).   I have 9 characters in LOTRO.   I have 6characters in DDO.   And at least 25%, usually more, are at cap in any of those games.   In LOTRO, before I quit, the lowest level I had was 30 and that was a race-re-roll on my burg.  I have 3 at cap, 3 in their 70's as they were moving from the old 65 cap to the new cap and 3 moving up to start Moria (level 50).     

     

    I only create alts as long as there is new content to experience. I'm not sure if GW2 has enough unique content for 5 characters to experience. I mean, I know that there are multiple leveling paths but I'm not sure if they merge later or not. So I'm guessing maybe 2 - 4 mostly unique leveling paths. The game gives you 5 character slots right off the bat, that to me is plenty.

    With that said, I do plan to purchase 3 more slots because I'm not really sure which character to stick with and I want to try all of them without having to start over.

    image

  • darkhalf357xdarkhalf357x Brooklyn, NYPosts: 1,164Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MorpheusMJW

    Hello all,

    Usually the business model of a MMO is either F2P with cash shop or subscription model with lower cost purchase. I haven't seen barely any mention on this on the forums, other than when the prices were first announced, so does that mean it is now acceptable to charge £50-120 for an MMO and then tap a cash shop on as well?

     

    I could be more forgiving if the cash shop was just more bank slots like in GW1, but paying for character slots, when I have just purchased a £50 game is a bit greedy in my opinion. Add to that genuine advantages (regardless of how large or small and I know they can be very small advantages) people can get from purchasing consumable items, it seems ridiculous to me to even have these items, Arenanet already stand to make around £100million just for box sales alone (a conservative difference between the amount of prepurchases and beta accounts active)

     

    I can already imagine people posting 'The cash shop is optional and the advantages aren't even that significant'. Regardless of how significant they are, people have the option to run 25% faster than me, even after me paying £50 for a game.

    Its like paying £40 for FIFA and then they have a cash shop for all players in squad to run 25% faster, doesn't seem fair for me. I think the initial purchase should make it so everyone is on a level playing field. Don't get me wrong, I'm really looking forward to playing, but this is the only thing that disappoints me.

     

    So what do people think, is it now acceptable to charge £50+ for a game and then adding a cash shop?

    I understand your argument, but not your premise. In the end isnt it free choice to accept or deny a game we want to play?  

    But back to your argument... I'd counter why should it not be accepted?  You never have to buy anything from the cash shop, so its existence shouldn't affect you or your gameplay.  Some games have a purchase + sub + cash shop.  That seems to be ok.   

    I dont understand the financials of making a game, but I do know its not free.  So its impossible for me to believe that a game can survive if all pieces of content were free.  How would you recoup any of your cost?  Better yet how would you eat? Let them have their cash shop.  It cant take your money unless you give it to them.  Think wisely.

    I am gamer. Play. Forever

    image
  • rykim86rykim86 winnipeg, MBPosts: 236Member

    Yes.

    I may be a gamer, but I'm also a business man.  Only people who have started and pushed out a product or idea can understand when I say there's nothing wrong with capitalizing on your work.  

    ArenaNet is not an indy or charity group.  They answer to corporate members and shareholders.  And a responsibility to their employees.

    And in the beginning and end, the choice is ultimately the users.  YOU decide to buy the game.  YOU decide whether to use the gem shop with real currency or trade in gold.  This is their product.  While you can have an opinion on their decision for something here or there, in the end, it's their baby to raise.

  • Serin101Serin101 Markham, ONPosts: 103Member
    Originally posted by heartless

    What I don't understand is why isn't the OP creating this same topic in other MMO forums? I mean if he has an issue with a B2P MMO having an optional cash shop, he should be up in arms over MMOs that have a box price, a cash shop and a subscription fee. Which is pretty much every single AAA MMO out there.

    Word, people these days, as the game comes closer to launch, seems like the sleepers are coming out more and more.  Its suprising because ever since the WoW patch annoucment, seems like a huge influx of people raising their pitchforks and torches and try to find anything to complain about.  Such is the vicious circle of a new upcoming MMO.

  • ZzadZzad Palma de MallorcaPosts: 1,332Member Uncommon

    I just don´t accept Pay to Play games with cash shop.

    in FTP or BTP i have different consideration.

  • bookworm438bookworm438 Detroit, MIPosts: 647Member
    Originally posted by rykim86

    Yes.

    I may be a gamer, but I'm also a business man.  Only people who have started and pushed out a product or idea can understand when I say there's nothing wrong with capitalizing on your work.  

    ArenaNet is not an indy or charity group.  They answer to corporate members and shareholders.  And a responsibility to their employees.

    And in the beginning and end, the choice is ultimately the users.  YOU decide to buy the game.  YOU decide whether to use the gem shop with real currency or trade in gold.  This is their product.  While you can have an opinion on their decision for something here or there, in the end, it's their baby to raise.

    Thank you!! I think you've said it infinitely better than I have been saying.

  • laokokolaokoko TaipeiPosts: 2,003Member
    Originally posted by bookworm438
    Originally posted by rykim86

    Yes.

    I may be a gamer, but I'm also a business man.  Only people who have started and pushed out a product or idea can understand when I say there's nothing wrong with capitalizing on your work.  

    ArenaNet is not an indy or charity group.  They answer to corporate members and shareholders.  And a responsibility to their employees.

    And in the beginning and end, the choice is ultimately the users.  YOU decide to buy the game.  YOU decide whether to use the gem shop with real currency or trade in gold.  This is their product.  While you can have an opinion on their decision for something here or there, in the end, it's their baby to raise.

    Thank you!! I think you've said it infinitely better than I have been saying.

    I try not to troll.  But this is what happen on a typical F2P cashshop discussion on a typical F2P game:

    "LOL, F2P, dont' play, the developer will try to milk you on your last penny with the cash shop".  Cash shop are evil!

    Now come to GW2 forum it became:

    "Oh, you think the developer dont' need money?  How would a company survive if they don't capitalize.  There's nothing wrong with cash shop!

  • rykim86rykim86 winnipeg, MBPosts: 236Member
    Originally posted by laokoko

    I try not to troll.  But this is what happen on a typical F2P cashshop discussion on a typical F2P game:

    "LOL, F2P, dont' play, the developer will try to milk you on your last penny with the cash shop".  Cash shop are evil!

    Now come to GW2 forum it became:

    "Oh, you think the developer dont' need money?  How would a company survive if they don't capitalize.  There's nothing wrong with cash shop!

    Waiting for you to show up!

    It's amazing you still don't see the difference between in development of GW2 and a typical F2P.  

    Hmmm, a F2P MMO that only took maybe tens of thousand or a hundred thousand to develop versus a multi million dollar project that's be released internationally.  Has a much larger work force, payroll.  Actual bosses and share holders to answer to.

    You know what, I'm not doing this again.  I've explained the basics of business concepts to you multiple times and yet you still don't understand it.

  • TokkenTokken Portland, ORPosts: 1,154Member Uncommon
    to me, the cash shop adds to the game... it's fun to go shopping to support the game.  Don't make me go shopping in a mall in real life or I will give you a smack down!
    Brad McQuaid Quote:  So, God-willing, the Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen team and I will be able to make or allow that magic to happen a third time, and it too will be not just a great game, but also that catalyst again that brings people together, sometimes out of their comfort zone, learning how to work together not just tactically in a virtual world but also socially in the real world.
  • laokokolaokoko TaipeiPosts: 2,003Member
    Originally posted by rykim86
    Originally posted by laokoko

    I try not to troll.  But this is what happen on a typical F2P cashshop discussion on a typical F2P game:

    "LOL, F2P, dont' play, the developer will try to milk you on your last penny with the cash shop".  Cash shop are evil!

    Now come to GW2 forum it became:

    "Oh, you think the developer dont' need money?  How would a company survive if they don't capitalize.  There's nothing wrong with cash shop!

    Waiting for you to show up!

    It's amazing you still don't see the difference between in development of GW2 and a typical F2P.  

    Hmmm, a F2P MMO that only took maybe tens of thousand or a hundred thousand to develop versus a multi million dollar project that's be released internationally.  Has a much larger work force, payroll.  Actual bosses and share holders to answer to.

    You know what, I'm not doing this again.  I've explained the basics of business concepts to you multiple times and yet you still don't understand it.

    So what's the budget of GW2.  Ok you dont' know!

    You keep saying about GW2 being AAA or whatever.  and you don't even know how much the development cost is.

    So how much is the development cost of GW2?  20m?30m?50m?80m?100m?150m?  Can you even give me any resonable estimate of it?  NO!!!! No one knows

     

  • davhut21davhut21 hoover, ALPosts: 14Member Uncommon
    I look at it this way, if the developers do not make profits that make the shareholders happy we will no longer have quality games like Guild Wars 2 to play. The items the OP is referring to are also available in the game. I have not visited the cash shop in beta but have had several potions that increase XP, run speed, and other random buffs. These are found in the mystic chests in game. If you choose to buy from the cash shop or not it is up to you. I will support ANet myself and probably buy from it on occasion.
  • prpshrtprpshrt Clarksville, MDPosts: 258Member
    The original Guild Wars started with the same amount of character slots. I think GW2 has one more. They also sold character slots in GW1. I think people are making a big deal because the cash shop in GW2 is more integrated than it was in GW1. In GW1 they had things like skill unlock packs that would allow you to access all skills in the game in PvP and for heroes. They also had mercenary packs which allowed you to get more heroes of a particular class which would really give you an edge in PvE when it came to clearing areas and stuff. The GW2 cash shop from what I've seen isn't really much worse than this. Granted there's that whole TF2 thing with the mystic keys but eh who cares cause the keys drop anyways. Also for the xp boosts, those were there in GW1 as well except that they were easy and cheap to buy because there were only 20 levels. All they've done is made them rare and made the purchasable for that one person who just wants nothing to do with playing the game and powering their way to level 80 (which would make one wonder why they're even playing the game in the first place).
  • rykim86rykim86 winnipeg, MBPosts: 236Member
    Originally posted by laokoko

    So what's the budget of GW2.  Ok you dont' know!

    You keep saying about GW2 being AAA or whatever.  and you don't even know how much the development cost is.

    So how much is the development cost of GW2?  20m?30m?50m?80m?100m?150m?  Can you even give me any resonable estimate of it?  NO!!!! No one knows

     

    And like I told you before, we don't need to know the exact amount.  What we do know is how much SWTOR cost and it can be used as a comparison.  Comparing GW2 to something like R.O.S.E or Aika?....lol.

    If that's your only argument to what I've said, you absolutely fail.  

  • NitthNitth AustraliaPosts: 3,684Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by MorpheusMJW
    Hello all,

    Usually the business model of a MMO is either F2P with cash shop or subscription model with lower cost purchase. I haven't seen barely any mention on this on the forums, other than when the prices were first announced, so does that mean it is now acceptable to charge £50-120 for an MMO and then tap a cash shop on as well?

     

    I could be more forgiving if the cash shop was just more bank slots like in GW1, but paying for character slots, when I have just purchased a £50 game is a bit greedy in my opinion. Add to that genuine advantages (regardless of how large or small and I know they can be very small advantages) people can get from purchasing consumable items, it seems ridiculous to me to even have these items, Arenanet already stand to make around £100million just for box sales alone (a conservative difference between the amount of prepurchases and beta accounts active)

     

    I can already imagine people posting 'The cash shop is optional and the advantages aren't even that significant'. Regardless of how significant they are, people have the option to run 25% faster than me, even after me paying £50 for a game.

    Its like paying £40 for FIFA and then they have a cash shop for all players in squad to run 25% faster, doesn't seem fair for me. I think the initial purchase should make it so everyone is on a level playing field. Don't get me wrong, I'm really looking forward to playing, but this is the only thing that disappoints me.

     

    So what do people think, is it now acceptable to charge £50+ for a game and then adding a cash shop?


    To be honest, These days in general i like the microtransaction systems.

    For example, I would purchase a "premium class" in a ftp game and play that on and off at my leisure rather than pay the monthly "instalments"

    Does that work out cheaper? that's hard to say, but at least that gives me freedom to choose when and if I buy modular packages.

    Not so much into buying "usable items" its a hidden trap, once you buy those things you lose the "drive" to continue playing games that praise gear progression.

    --------------------------------
    Guild wars 2:

    Still haven't decided on weather i will purchase this or not, But if i did i would probably buy stuff from the shop for "real money" - lets face it buying stuff from the shop directly supports developers and if you enjoy the product what's wrong with investing in your fun?


    image
    TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  • laokokolaokoko TaipeiPosts: 2,003Member
    Originally posted by rykim86
    Originally posted by laokoko

    So what's the budget of GW2.  Ok you dont' know!

    You keep saying about GW2 being AAA or whatever.  and you don't even know how much the development cost is.

    So how much is the development cost of GW2?  20m?30m?50m?80m?100m?150m?  Can you even give me any resonable estimate of it?  NO!!!! No one knows

     

    And like I told you before, we don't need to know the exact amount.  What we do know is how much SWTOR cost and it can be used as a comparison.  Comparing GW2 to something like R.O.S.E or Aika?....lol.

    If that's your only argument to what I've said, you absolutely fail.  

    I dont' think GW2 even cost much for development.  First of all Anet though independent is still under NCSoft.  NCsoft with it's resource and being a well managed company will keep the cost low.  And if GW2 is even high budget it'll already release it's development cost.

    Wow 50m, Tera 50m, Aion 25m, C9 18m, allods 12m.  Maybe you think all comapnies are like APB or Bioware which stupidly toast hundred million around.

    Some people on google even guess GW2 to cost 10m. 

    And my question to you is you think APB should cost 100m, or 150m for SWTOR?

    And my question is why dont' GW2 publish it's development cost.  Most games do.  Maybe it dont' cost much, that's why it's a widely hide secret.

    -------------------------------------

    Nevermind, after reading the post below me, I finally understood and everything you say is right...

     

  • MyrdynnMyrdynn Beaumont, CAPosts: 1,518Member Uncommon

    I read nothing in this thread.

    Just want to add my 2 cents.  Anything GW2 does is acceptable, dont you know

    GW2 will cure cancer, and solve the world economy, while feeding Africa and taking out Kony, all while destroying the drug cartel in Mexico

     

  • warmaster670warmaster670 Simcoe, ONPosts: 1,384Member
    Originally posted by MosesZD
    Originally posted by VirgoThree
    It's not so bad really. There are plenty of single player games that have cash shop like DLC such as Dead Space as an example. You can pay cash for overpowered weapons and breeze through the game. Granted it's not multiplayer but I find that to be more strange since it is singleplayer.

     

    OMG.   Dragon Age Origins had a cash shop in the game.   As a vendor.   I'm like 'cool, there's a vendor at my camp.'  Followed by "OMG, WTFBBQ!!!"   That was the last (except the SWTOR mistake) full-retail BioWare game ever.   I have plenty of good games, waiting a year to buy the game on a super deep discount (if at all) suits me fine.

    Newsflash, somethings not a cash SHOP if you dont buy anything from it.

     

    An npc talking about DLC =/= cash shop.

     

    And he wasnt a vendor either, just a dude.

    Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling"
    Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.

  • PhryPhry HampshirePosts: 6,290Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by warmaster670
    Originally posted by MosesZD
    Originally posted by VirgoThree
    It's not so bad really. There are plenty of single player games that have cash shop like DLC such as Dead Space as an example. You can pay cash for overpowered weapons and breeze through the game. Granted it's not multiplayer but I find that to be more strange since it is singleplayer.

     

    OMG.   Dragon Age Origins had a cash shop in the game.   As a vendor.   I'm like 'cool, there's a vendor at my camp.'  Followed by "OMG, WTFBBQ!!!"   That was the last (except the SWTOR mistake) full-retail BioWare game ever.   I have plenty of good games, waiting a year to buy the game on a super deep discount (if at all) suits me fine.

    Newsflash, somethings not a cash SHOP if you dont buy anything from it.

     

    An npc talking about DLC =/= cash shop.

     

    And he wasnt a vendor either, just a dude.

    was totally a vendor, click on him and presto, instant invitation to buy stuff, the only good thing is that 'much later on' they sold the whole DA;O thing with all the DLC included, at less than the original price, patience has its virtues eh.. anyway, saying something is not a cash shop if you don't buy from it, is like saying churches don't exist if you don't believe in god, i think the whole B2P or F2P thing, a cash shop is a necessary evil, you don't have to use them, but, their there, and in GW2's case, they are a feature that will hopefully make the game profitable, Arenanet believe it will, and as its their game, they should know.image

  • VirgoThreeVirgoThree Tarzana, CAPosts: 1,220Member
    Originally posted by Phry
    Originally posted by warmaster670
    Originally posted by MosesZD
    Originally posted by VirgoThree
    It's not so bad really. There are plenty of single player games that have cash shop like DLC such as Dead Space as an example. You can pay cash for overpowered weapons and breeze through the game. Granted it's not multiplayer but I find that to be more strange since it is singleplayer.

     

    OMG.   Dragon Age Origins had a cash shop in the game.   As a vendor.   I'm like 'cool, there's a vendor at my camp.'  Followed by "OMG, WTFBBQ!!!"   That was the last (except the SWTOR mistake) full-retail BioWare game ever.   I have plenty of good games, waiting a year to buy the game on a super deep discount (if at all) suits me fine.

    Newsflash, somethings not a cash SHOP if you dont buy anything from it.

     

    An npc talking about DLC =/= cash shop.

     

    And he wasnt a vendor either, just a dude.

    was totally a vendor, click on him and presto, instant invitation to buy stuff, the only good thing is that 'much later on' they sold the whole DA;O thing with all the DLC included, at less than the original price, patience has its virtues eh.. anyway, saying something is not a cash shop if you don't buy from it, is like saying churches don't exist if you don't believe in god, i think the whole B2P or F2P thing, a cash shop is a necessary evil, you don't have to use them, but, their there, and in GW2's case, they are a feature that will hopefully make the game profitable, Arenanet believe it will, and as its their game, they should know.image

    I think DA:O is not necessarily a good comparison for the cash shop dlc argument. Last I recall majority of the DLC was extra content. If that vendor was selling DLC that were along the lines of dead space such as pay real money for phat gear, skins and etc then yeah I'd call that a straight up cash shop.

    Honestly, this is one of those arguments that can go either way forever because there is a lot up to interpretation.

  • PhryPhry HampshirePosts: 6,290Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by VirgoThree
    Originally posted by Phry
    Originally posted by warmaster670
    Originally posted by MosesZD
    Originally posted by VirgoThree
    It's not so bad really. There are plenty of single player games that have cash shop like DLC such as Dead Space as an example. You can pay cash for overpowered weapons and breeze through the game. Granted it's not multiplayer but I find that to be more strange since it is singleplayer.

     

    OMG.   Dragon Age Origins had a cash shop in the game.   As a vendor.   I'm like 'cool, there's a vendor at my camp.'  Followed by "OMG, WTFBBQ!!!"   That was the last (except the SWTOR mistake) full-retail BioWare game ever.   I have plenty of good games, waiting a year to buy the game on a super deep discount (if at all) suits me fine.

    Newsflash, somethings not a cash SHOP if you dont buy anything from it.

     

    An npc talking about DLC =/= cash shop.

     

    And he wasnt a vendor either, just a dude.

    was totally a vendor, click on him and presto, instant invitation to buy stuff, the only good thing is that 'much later on' they sold the whole DA;O thing with all the DLC included, at less than the original price, patience has its virtues eh.. anyway, saying something is not a cash shop if you don't buy from it, is like saying churches don't exist if you don't believe in god, i think the whole B2P or F2P thing, a cash shop is a necessary evil, you don't have to use them, but, their there, and in GW2's case, they are a feature that will hopefully make the game profitable, Arenanet believe it will, and as its their game, they should know.image

    I think DA:O is not necessarily a good comparison for the cash shop dlc argument. Last I recall majority of the DLC was extra content. If that vendor was selling DLC that were along the lines of dead space such as pay real money for phat gear, skins and etc then yeah I'd call that a straight up cash shop.

    Honestly, this is one of those arguments that can go either way forever because there is a lot up to interpretation.

    True enough, and honestly the whole DLC thing seems a bit dodgy to me, expansion packs that add new islands or whatever thats fine, GW1 had the right idea with that imo, the problem is that DA;O DLC pretty much was the whole phat loot thing, lots of extra 'bits' that gave you huge item drops that made the rest of the game a hell of a lot easier. i think players might think better of Bioware if they didnt keep doing all this DLC thing and actually had them in the game to begin with, especially after the whole ME3 debacle, in that respect, i truly think that Cash shops are a more 'honest' approach, so im tempted to think that despite the fact i don't like cash shops all that much, Arenanet are probably on the right track with their own.image

  • VoiidiinVoiidiin Barrow, AKPosts: 817Member

    Not really directed to the OP but he does fall into this.

    When did ANet start forcing people to play GW2 ?

    Last i checked it was a choice to pay for a game and continue to play it and or pay for it. If the B2P with CashShop is so bothersome maybe move on to another game ?

    Same with lack of raiding, lack of Trinity, lack of pandas or pokemon. I just find it so odd, with the glut of MMOs' available why does GW2 have to conform to everyone elses idea ? 

    If the game bothers you so much that you feel the need to troll the forums of the game, umm don't play it.

    Or there is something else at play here, the trolls are afraid that GW2 will ruin the populations of there game so they make a vain attempt to try and influence others from buying it ? I dunno maybe i need a tinfoil hat on ?

    Lolipops !

  • rykim86rykim86 winnipeg, MBPosts: 236Member
    Originally posted by laokoko

    I dont' think GW2 even cost much for development.  First of all Anet though independent is still under NCSoft.  NCsoft with it's resource and being a well managed company will keep the cost low.  And if GW2 is even high budget it'll already release it's development cost.

    Nope.  ArenaNet became a subsidiary for a reason.  For NCSofts resources.  And what the hell do you mean they'll release their development cost?  They're only legally bound to tell their bosses and shareholders.  Very, very doubtful they would tell anyone else, including media outlets.

    Wow 50m, Tera 50m, Aion 25m, C9 18m, allods 12m.  Maybe you think all comapnies are like APB or Bioware which stupidly toast hundred million around.

    Hmmm, when did WoW and Aion and a few others start development?  Oh yeah, before the global recession kicked everyone a new one.  

    And you're still thinking ArenaNet gets all of the profit from box sales.  Laughable.

    Some people on google even guess GW2 to cost 10m. 

    And here's your regular "BECAUSE I GOOGLED IT" comment.

    And my question to you is you think APB should cost 100m, or 150m for SWTOR?

    No.  They never should've cost that much.  But with an IP like Star Wars, of course everything will cost more.  But you're moronic if you think GW2 didn't, at minimum, cost $50million.  

    And my question is why dont' GW2 publish it's development cost.  Most games do.  Maybe it dont' cost much, that's why it's a widely hide secret.

    Why?  Why the fuck would any company of that size publicly display their revenue stream?  Okay, you're making it very apparent now just how ignorant you are of business practices.  Dear Lord.  This isn't a film.

     

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