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SWTOR = Biggest Failure in MMORPG history

hh33hh33 chicago, ILPosts: 55Member

There is no amount of spin that can change this fact. SWTOR cost over 150 million dollars to develop, came cruising out of the gates with 2.1 million subscribers and is now below 300k, some say under 100k subs.

That is a drop of 86% in less than 9 months which  is a disaster for any company offering a product whose income model is based on a monthly subscription fee.

SWTOR did not go F2P because it is the model of the future, it went in this direction because it is an unmitigated disaster and EA/Bioware are now forced to resort to desperate measures.

Time to join reality people, this game is a total failure and will most likely be shut down by Q1 2013.

Comments

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member
    Just have to ask...where are you getting your "below 300K subs" number from?

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • WhiteLanternWhiteLantern Nevada, MOPosts: 2,732Member
    Hey there, welcome to the party. You're a little late, though. It got started over here.

    I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  • XthosXthos Columbus, OHPosts: 2,628Member

    We already had this discussion.

     

    Some examples that people cited that were much more fail:

     

    APB, Tabula Rasa...plenty more in the thread.

     

  • MothanosMothanos ArnhemPosts: 1,860Member Uncommon

    Hope many many other mmo studio's follow the same path, people raged and raged about alot of stuff and only got silenced by forum bans without even taking note off all the massive feedback they got.

    Booooooom Headshot Bioware now take your piece of garbage and hand it over to EA.

    Reason why i am mad is i trusted Bioware, i had faith in them to make changes and listen to the feedback we gave them.
    None of us where taken seriously, we got banned for asking fixes for gamebreaking stuff.

    I payed around 170 euro for 2 copy's of that piece of crap and coulnt even get a refund.

    I will never ever buy a Bioware / EA game again, i download them from Spotnet and put down a crack over it and thats it.


  • BrokenSpoonBrokenSpoon LondonPosts: 205Member
    Star Wars is Role Play??? I THOUGHT IT WAS REAL!!!!!!

    All hail the Barn Owl! oh.. and the RED SQUIRREL!!!

  • ValentinaValentina Los Angeles, CAPosts: 1,675Member Uncommon

    the OP is either a troll, are hugely misinformed. According to the recent investors call, SWTOR still has just under a million subscribers, yes they have lost a bunch more than 40% listing the subscription being why they don't continue playing when they quit. Its sold well over two million copies since launch, probably somewhere around 3 million by now.

     

    you want to know the biggest flop of MMO history? FFXIV.

    you want to know who comes second? Tabula Rasa

    after that? Vanguard

    want to know what comes after that? Age of Conan, and the degree of a flop that was is still disputable as it performed well commercially, regardless of how messed up it was.

    those are not even including the masses of F2P or hybrid model MMO's that have come out over the years and failed miserably, or older MMO's such as AC2.\

     

    please get your facts straight before posting nonsense like this.

  • WhiteLanternWhiteLantern Nevada, MOPosts: 2,732Member
    Originally posted by Valentina

    the OP is either a troll, are hugely misinformed. According to the recent investors call, SWTOR still has just under a million subscribers, yes they have lost a bunch more than 40% listing the subscription being why they don't continue playing when they quit. Its sold well over two million copies since launch, probably somewhere around 3 million by now.

     

    you want to know the biggest flop of MMO history? FFXIV.

    you want to know who comes second? Tabula Rasa

    after that? Vanguard

    want to know what comes after that? Age of Conan, and the degree of a flop that was is still disputable as it performed well commercially, regardless of how messed up it was.

    those are not even including the masses of F2P or hybrid model MMO's that have come out over the years and failed miserably, or older MMO's such as AC2.\

     

    please get your facts straight before posting nonsense like this.

    Idk, I think APB and Tabula Rasa come in right up there with FF14. My opinion, for sure.

    I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  • WankyudoWankyudo Leesburg, VAPosts: 146Member Common
    Originally posted by Valentina

    the OP is either a troll, are hugely misinformed. According to the recent investors call, SWTOR still has just under a million subscribers, yes they have lost a bunch more than 40% listing the subscription being why they don't continue playing when they quit. Its sold well over two million copies since launch, probably somewhere around 3 million by now.

     

    you want to know the biggest flop of MMO history? FFXIV.

    you want to know who comes second? Vanguard

    want to know what comes after that? Age of Conan, and the degree of a flop that was is still disputable as it performed well commercially, regardless of how messed up it was.

    those are not even including the masses of F2P or hybrid model MMO's that have come out over the years and failed miserably, or older MMO's such as AC2.\

     

    please get your facts straight before posting nonsense like this.

    Seeing as every one of his 52 posts has been "SWTOR Bad, EA bad, Bioware Bad, I'd say he's a troll.

     

    Also thank you for the FFXIV example.  I'm not sure how Swtor could be the biggest fail when Square Enix had to make FFXIV free to play just to stifle the mass abandon ship screams considering how bad their game was on release.

    image

  • hh33hh33 chicago, ILPosts: 55Member
    Originally posted by Valentina

    the OP is either a troll, are hugely misinformed. According to the recent investors call, SWTOR still has just under a million subscribers, yes they have lost a bunch more than 40% listing the subscription being why they don't continue playing when they quit. Its sold well over two million copies since launch, probably somewhere around 3 million by now.

     

    you want to know the biggest flop of MMO history? FFXIV.

    you want to know who comes second? Tabula Rasa

    after that? Vanguard

    want to know what comes after that? Age of Conan, and the degree of a flop that was is still disputable as it performed well commercially, regardless of how messed up it was.

    those are not even including the masses of F2P or hybrid model MMO's that have come out over the years and failed miserably, or older MMO's such as AC2.\

     

    please get your facts straight before posting nonsense like this.

    Stop crying, SWTOR is the biggest failure in MMORPG history.

  • BrokenSpoonBrokenSpoon LondonPosts: 205Member
    FXIV has 2.0 to come. could be a double wammy of disapointment :D

    All hail the Barn Owl! oh.. and the RED SQUIRREL!!!

  • ValentinaValentina Los Angeles, CAPosts: 1,675Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by WhiteLantern
    Originally posted by Valentina

    the OP is either a troll, are hugely misinformed. According to the recent investors call, SWTOR still has just under a million subscribers, yes they have lost a bunch more than 40% listing the subscription being why they don't continue playing when they quit. Its sold well over two million copies since launch, probably somewhere around 3 million by now.

     

    you want to know the biggest flop of MMO history? FFXIV.

    you want to know who comes second? Tabula Rasa

    after that? Vanguard

    want to know what comes after that? Age of Conan, and the degree of a flop that was is still disputable as it performed well commercially, regardless of how messed up it was.

    those are not even including the masses of F2P or hybrid model MMO's that have come out over the years and failed miserably, or older MMO's such as AC2.\

     

    please get your facts straight before posting nonsense like this.

    Idk, I think APB and Tabula Rasa come in right up there with FF14. My opinion, for sure.

    I forgot APB even existed, you're right. There are a lot of games that have flopped over the years, SWTOR really isn't one of them either way not with how much bank they've made off it already.

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member
    Originally posted by Valentina

    the OP is either a troll, are hugely misinformed. According to the recent investors call, SWTOR still has just under a million subscribers, yes they have lost a bunch more than 40% listing the subscription being why they don't continue playing when they quit. Its sold well over two million copies since launch, probably somewhere around 3 million by now.

     

    you want to know the biggest flop of MMO history? FFXIV.

    you want to know who comes second? Tabula Rasa

    after that? Vanguard

    want to know what comes after that? Age of Conan, and the degree of a flop that was is still disputable as it performed well commercially, regardless of how messed up it was.

    those are not even including the masses of F2P or hybrid model MMO's that have come out over the years and failed miserably, or older MMO's such as AC2.\

     

    please get your facts straight before posting nonsense like this.

     Pot meet kettle :).

    They actually said that they had between 500K to 1 million subscribers.  Now...I'm not a genius with big city talk, but if I tell my mom that I got between a 50-100 on my test...then that means I got an F ;).

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member
    Originally posted by hh33
    Originally posted by Valentina

    the OP is either a troll, are hugely misinformed. According to the recent investors call, SWTOR still has just under a million subscribers, yes they have lost a bunch more than 40% listing the subscription being why they don't continue playing when they quit. Its sold well over two million copies since launch, probably somewhere around 3 million by now.

     

    you want to know the biggest flop of MMO history? FFXIV.

    you want to know who comes second? Tabula Rasa

    after that? Vanguard

    want to know what comes after that? Age of Conan, and the degree of a flop that was is still disputable as it performed well commercially, regardless of how messed up it was.

    those are not even including the masses of F2P or hybrid model MMO's that have come out over the years and failed miserably, or older MMO's such as AC2.\

     

    please get your facts straight before posting nonsense like this.

    Stop crying, SWTOR is the biggest failure in MMORPG history.

     Devastating rebuttle!  Your move Valentia...

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • WankyudoWankyudo Leesburg, VAPosts: 146Member Common
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by hh33
    Originally posted by Valentina

    the OP is either a troll, are hugely misinformed. According to the recent investors call, SWTOR still has just under a million subscribers, yes they have lost a bunch more than 40% listing the subscription being why they don't continue playing when they quit. Its sold well over two million copies since launch, probably somewhere around 3 million by now.

     

    you want to know the biggest flop of MMO history? FFXIV.

    you want to know who comes second? Tabula Rasa

    after that? Vanguard

    want to know what comes after that? Age of Conan, and the degree of a flop that was is still disputable as it performed well commercially, regardless of how messed up it was.

    those are not even including the masses of F2P or hybrid model MMO's that have come out over the years and failed miserably, or older MMO's such as AC2.\

     

    please get your facts straight before posting nonsense like this.

    Stop crying, SWTOR is the biggest failure in MMORPG history.

     Devastating rebuttle!  Your move Valentia...

    I don't know, I think that's checkmate right there.

    image

  • sirphobossirphobos Ames, IAPosts: 614Member Common

    OP = biggest fail in the history of OPs.

  • XthosXthos Columbus, OHPosts: 2,628Member
    Originally posted by Valentina

    the OP is either a troll, are hugely misinformed. According to the recent investors call, SWTOR still has just under a million subscribers, yes they have lost a bunch more than 40% listing the subscription being why they don't continue playing when they quit. Its sold well over two million copies since launch, probably somewhere around 3 million by now.

     

    you want to know the biggest flop of MMO history? FFXIV.

    you want to know who comes second? Tabula Rasa

    after that? Vanguard

    want to know what comes after that? Age of Conan, and the degree of a flop that was is still disputable as it performed well commercially, regardless of how messed up it was.

    those are not even including the masses of F2P or hybrid model MMO's that have come out over the years and failed miserably, or older MMO's such as AC2.\

     

    please get your facts straight before posting nonsense like this.

     They said they have north of 500,000...Which I doubt, I left a long time ago, when they said they had like 1.2 million plus and it felt dead....I put it at around 250-300k, unless they just had a ton of people that were paying subs, but not playing anymore.  I mean they purged liked around 100 servers I think it was, but not too long before then, they acted like they had no sub problem...I don't think they are too honest, so I don't believe anything they say, so like I said, I am going by my eye test, from the last time I was in the game, and the time that has passed since (people more upset, and leaving from all accounts, so doubt subs have gone up).

     

    They said if they had 500,000 subs, they would be good, so if that is the case, and they are doing good, then I don't see why it is going FTP, they are giving away guaranteed $7.5 million a month, for the hope that people will buy that much from the shop.  If they have 1 million, thats $15 million a month, and they are going to go f2p?  I doubt it.

     

    Hard for people to get facts straight, when the people you depend on the facts from have a history of lies and half truths.

     

  • vmopedvmoped Athens, GAPosts: 1,708Member

    I'm sorry OP, but there have been bigger MMO failures long before SWTOR.  Firstly, SWTOR sold 2.1 million copies.  That is not a failure in box sales.  Secondly, the game is adjusting its payment model to improve retention.  This gives us clues that the developers are trying to save the project.

    Examples of failures:

    Sims Online

    Mourning

    Earth and Beyond

    Shadowbane

    Any mmo that was shut down.

    Swtor has seen a decline in subs.  That is all.  It is still operating and therefore is much more a success than any mmo that has been shut down.  I don't even play the game anymore due to dislike of the endgame gear grind.

    Cheers!

    Edit: Oh yea lets not forget the epic and spectacular debacle of Dark and Light to mention another!

    MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member

    On a more serious note...

    SWTOR may not be the biggest MMO failure to date, but it is definitely the biggest MMO to fail.  And that, in and of itself, matters.

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • Adhesive33Adhesive33 San Francisco, CAPosts: 227Member
    Originally posted by Valentina

    the OP is either a troll, are hugely misinformed. According to the recent investors call, SWTOR still has just under a million subscribers, yes they have lost a bunch more than 40% listing the subscription being why they don't continue playing when they quit. Its sold well over two million copies since launch, probably somewhere around 3 million by now.

     

    you want to know the biggest flop of MMO history? FFXIV.

    you want to know who comes second? Tabula Rasa

    after that? Vanguard

    want to know what comes after that? Age of Conan, and the degree of a flop that was is still disputable as it performed well commercially, regardless of how messed up it was.

    those are not even including the masses of F2P or hybrid model MMO's that have come out over the years and failed miserably, or older MMO's such as AC2.\

     

    please get your facts straight before posting nonsense like this.

    I never read "just under a million" in the reports, it was always simply that they had slipped under a million but were well above the 500k mark (which they claim is needed to stay profitable). That being said, I'd speculate it's closer to the 750k mark than the 1million mark. Still, nowhere near the worst failure in MMO history, especially given the phenomenal number of box sales. 

  • hh33hh33 chicago, ILPosts: 55Member

    Figure in SWTOR's development cost, loss of customers and the haircut institutional investors took on EA stock.

    This game is without a doubt the biggest failure in MMORPG history.

  • vmopedvmoped Athens, GAPosts: 1,708Member
    Originally posted by Creslin321

    On a more serious note...

    SWTOR may not be the biggest MMO failure to date, but it is definitely the biggest MMO to fail.  And that, in and of itself, matters.

     By this and the Op's logic, then the largest mmo to fail and largest mmo failure will ultimately be WoW.  Due to it being the biggest (biggest that we have seen in the west that is) mmo with the most subs (and largest overall cost at this point) to eventually lose.

    Cheers!

    MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S

  • XthosXthos Columbus, OHPosts: 2,628Member
    Originally posted by Valentina
    Originally posted by WhiteLantern
    Originally posted by Valentina

    the OP is either a troll, are hugely misinformed. According to the recent investors call, SWTOR still has just under a million subscribers, yes they have lost a bunch more than 40% listing the subscription being why they don't continue playing when they quit. Its sold well over two million copies since launch, probably somewhere around 3 million by now.

     

    you want to know the biggest flop of MMO history? FFXIV.

    you want to know who comes second? Tabula Rasa

    after that? Vanguard

    want to know what comes after that? Age of Conan, and the degree of a flop that was is still disputable as it performed well commercially, regardless of how messed up it was.

    those are not even including the masses of F2P or hybrid model MMO's that have come out over the years and failed miserably, or older MMO's such as AC2.\

     

    please get your facts straight before posting nonsense like this.

    Idk, I think APB and Tabula Rasa come in right up there with FF14. My opinion, for sure.

    I forgot APB even existed, you're right. There are a lot of games that have flopped over the years, SWTOR really isn't one of them either way not with how much bank they've made off it already.

     I don't think they have made a profit yet, as I don't believe their sub numbers, and I put the price tag around 200-225 million with advertising.  Box/digital sales are not 100%, you have to pay retailers a cut, you have to pay the EA distributor (yeah they own BW, but it doesn't work for free, different divisions charge divisions within a company for goods/services), Lucas Arts isn't letting them use the Star Wars IP for free, and some report it is up to 30% (I don't know, but have seen it thrown around a lot, but it is a lot closer to 30%, than it is free), even the monthly subs that are transactions through credit companies get a cut, was a lot of this money sitting around or was it taken as a loan/advestors (do they have to pay say 2-5% or something on it?)....

    A lot of people just try to multiply monthly subs (which I think are a lie/inflated, I played the game, seen the amount of servers cut, etc...), game sales, and then take the lowest possible estimate for what the game costs and go BOOM...profit!

     

    I think they will make a profit on it, even going ftp, its the star wars ip, being free they will probably be able to keep a rotating base of 250-300k players for a years, atleast until someone decides to make the next Star Wars MMO, and Lucas probably changes terms on them to push TOR to the scrap heap, like they did SWG.  So it probably has a good 5-8 year run in it.

  • XthosXthos Columbus, OHPosts: 2,628Member
    Originally posted by vmoped
    Originally posted by Creslin321

    On a more serious note...

    SWTOR may not be the biggest MMO failure to date, but it is definitely the biggest MMO to fail.  And that, in and of itself, matters.

     By this and the Op's logic, then the largest mmo to fail and largest mmo failure will ultimately be WoW.  Due to it being the biggest (biggest that we have seen in the west that is) mmo with the most subs (and largest overall cost at this point) to eventually lose.

    Cheers!

     When WoW does die, yes it will be the biggest to die....But WoW has probably made more in say 3 months of subs at it's peak, than TOR will ever profit....I think they will sleep ok (and no, I don't play WoW,  never have subbed it, and don't like it).

  • AmanaAmana New York, NYPosts: 2,544Moderator Uncommon
    Multiple duplicate threads on the matter, which don't lead to a productive discussion and are, in fact, duplicate topics. Locked.

    To give feedback on moderation, contact community@mmorpg.com

This discussion has been closed.