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B2P and Cash Shop is now acceptable?

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  • minime2minime2 cardiffPosts: 113Member
    @ op you can buy the game for £34.99 save yourself a little cash if money is tight . Just dont get early access for the pre order so cant play till the 28th . But why worry about a CS just dont buy if you dont want to . ?
  • otacuotacu BolzanoPosts: 547Member
    Originally posted by Scot

    Yes it is dodgy, outrageous even. But that is the name of the game in any MMO these days, designed to milk the players of cash as much as possible. It could be worse, GW2 is not a sub game and I do not think the cash shop sells game play altering items. But as anyone who has played MMO’s with a cash shop will know, they always end up being sold, it is just a matter of time.

    Like Guild Wars 1 right?

     

     

  • RamanadjinnRamanadjinn Huntsville, ALPosts: 1,365Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by otacu
    Originally posted by Scot

    Yes it is dodgy, outrageous even. But that is the name of the game in any MMO these days, designed to milk the players of cash as much as possible. It could be worse, GW2 is not a sub game and I do not think the cash shop sells game play altering items. But as anyone who has played MMO’s with a cash shop will know, they always end up being sold, it is just a matter of time.

    Like Guild Wars 1 right?

     

     

     

    Scot is correct, guild wars 1 sells things in its cash shop!  i can verify this!  (well, all but the dodgy, outrageous, and game design part)

    you can even view the items from their website without having an account i think.

    they have several "game play altering items."  one of the things you can buy alters your character to look kinda like a pirate.

  • DJJazzyDJJazzy louisville, COPosts: 2,053Member
    Oh good, a cash shop thread. We haven't had one of those in a while.
  • Preacher26Preacher26 saranac, NYPosts: 378Member

    B2P + non p2w cash shop is a very good method imho. I will be staying away from the collectors addition and using the money on gems to buy bigger bag/bank slots.

    TBH gaming is a rather cheap hobby although I prefer sub based games without any cash shop I have no problems with GW2 unless they start adding power items.

    Jeeze look @ TSW... they have a sub on top of the box cost and item shop.

  • SiphaedSiphaed Everywhere!Posts: 876Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MorpheusMJW

    Hello all,

    Usually the business model of a MMO is either F2P with cash shop or subscription model with lower cost purchase. I haven't seen barely any mention on this on the forums, other than when the prices were first announced, so does that mean it is now acceptable to charge £50-120 for an MMO and then tap a cash shop on as well?

     

    I could be more forgiving if the cash shop was just more bank slots like in GW1, but paying for character slots, when I have just purchased a £50 game is a bit greedy in my opinion. Add to that genuine advantages (regardless of how large or small and I know they can be very small advantages) people can get from purchasing consumable items, it seems ridiculous to me to even have these items, Arenanet already stand to make around £100million just for box sales alone (a conservative difference between the amount of prepurchases and beta accounts active)

     

    I can already imagine people posting 'The cash shop is optional and the advantages aren't even that significant'. Regardless of how significant they are, people have the option to run 25% faster than me, even after me paying £50 for a game.

    Its like paying £40 for FIFA and then they have a cash shop for all players in squad to run 25% faster, doesn't seem fair for me. I think the initial purchase should make it so everyone is on a level playing field. Don't get me wrong, I'm really looking forward to playing, but this is the only thing that disappoints me.

     

    So what do people think, is it now acceptable to charge £50+ for a game and then adding a cash shop?

    Your opinion is rediculous to think that A.Net is "greedy' because of things like character slots in the cash shop (Trading Post).

     

       How much is a subscription game within it's 3-months?  It's $50-60 for the initial game and month, then it's $15 each month for 2 and 3.  That's $80-90 depending on the game.  And, to continue playing beyond the 3 months, you need to continue paying that monthly.  

     

    But my point about the character slots is not that bad.  This is because they're purchasable through both $-to-Gem as well as Gold-to-Gem.  And also a player starts with 5 character slots anyways, which is more than enough for continual play to either get the Gold or just be satisfied with those 5.

     

    I'm not aware of ANY of the Boosts in the Trading Post that gives more speed.   I'm sure they're in the chests that drop throughout the world, but they also don't stack with food that give the same buffs (which there is through the Chef profession).  The only Boosts that are in the trading post are those that increase XP gain, Karma Gain, and the like.  That's just increased character progression speed, which someone having that doesn't effect you in the least bit and isn't somethign to worry about.

     

    Lastly, as previously mentioned the items can be obtained ingame through Gold-to-Gem exchange.  What this means is that you can get the same stuff from the "cash shop" by playing the game normally as someone who drops a $20 in there.  So, the "advantages" you claim are there are really non-existant.   /thread.


  • The_KorriganThe_Korrigan EastPosts: 2,630Member

    I think a good B2P+Cash shop model is one where $15 per month gives you a minor advantage indeed, but where its in no way required to play the game efficiently, $15 per month being the usual monthly fee of MMOs.

    GW2 seems to fit that bill just fine.

    If you wonder why I don't answer your posts, it's most likely because you are on my block list - so don't waste your time.

    image

  • ItarugaItaruga Dinuba, CAPosts: 38Member
    Guild Wars 1 had a cash shop. This is also not the first B2P game to do this. And if you did your research, this game is built very differently from the usual MMO fare. The cash shop is not going to hurt anyone. Use it, or don't. And get over it really. If there is something about a game you don't like, don't play it. A dime a dozen these types of threads.
  • bookworm438bookworm438 Detroit, MIPosts: 647Member
    Originally posted by MorpheusMJW

    Hello all,

    Usually the business model of a MMO is either F2P with cash shop or subscription model with lower cost purchase. I haven't seen barely any mention on this on the forums, other than when the prices were first announced, so does that mean it is now acceptable to charge £50-120 for an MMO and then tap a cash shop on as well?

    Most MMOs are either F2P or P2P. Very rarely are there B2P business models. So there really aren't any precedents for us to pull from, other than GW1. Also the cash shop is option, so you don't have to spend a dime there if you don't want to.

     

    I could be more forgiving if the cash shop was just more bank slots like in GW1, but paying for character slots, when I have just purchased a £50 game is a bit greedy in my opinion. Add to that genuine advantages (regardless of how large or small and I know they can be very small advantages) people can get from purchasing consumable items, it seems ridiculous to me to even have these items, Arenanet already stand to make around £100million just for box sales alone (a conservative difference between the amount of prepurchases and beta accounts active)

    GW1 also offered more character slots in the cash shop. In fact, if you just purchased one of the campaigns and nothing else, you'd only have 4 character slots.

    I fail to see what items provide you with an advantage in the cash shop? Or how any of those items there help you "win". I can obtain boosts in game, as well. Most of them only provide a small boost. The exp boost only applies to mobs, which give very little exp to begin with. Woo 50% increase on 8 exp! I now get 12 exp per mob! I'm just raking in exp. You are free to kill mobs for exp, but I will be doing events and other things that actually contribute a sizable chunk of exp. 

    ArenaNet is a business. They are in it to make money. They are not a charity. I should remind you that they don't keep the 50 euros per copy sold. A sizable chunk goes to credit card companies, even more since ArenaNet is in America, so there would be international fees as well. Not to mention EU taxes, which if I understand correctly, are more than here in America.  And if ArenaNet doesn't pull in enough money to make investors and shareholders happy, it won't be good for them. 

     

    I can already imagine people posting 'The cash shop is optional and the advantages aren't even that significant'. Regardless of how significant they are, people have the option to run 25% faster than me, even after me paying £50 for a game.

    This just proves you haven't even bothered to research the cash shop. You saw the term "cash shop" and freaked out. There's no 25% speed boost in the cash shop. Even if there was, what's it to you? How is that speed boost hurting you any way? Are you disadvantaged any way? Is your progress in the game hindered anyway by people purchasing the convenience items available? So what if they get to level 80 a day before you, or get exotic gear a week before you. You aren't forced to purchase anything, and your progress isn't hindered in anyway should you choose not to.

    Its like paying £40 for FIFA and then they have a cash shop for all players in squad to run 25% faster, doesn't seem fair for me. I think the initial purchase should make it so everyone is on a level playing field. Don't get me wrong, I'm really looking forward to playing, but this is the only thing that disappoints me.

     

    Actually, no it's not. FIFA is an entirely different game where a speed boost would provide a distinct advantage. It would be similar circumstances if FIFA allowed you to obtain new clothing with some kind of currency earned in game, and provided you with a 10% boost in that currency generation. But again, that boost doesn't hinder you in any way, and you aren't disdvantaged in anyway by not purchasing it. 

    So what do people think, is it now acceptable to charge £50+ for a game and then adding a cash shop?

    Seems perfectly fine to me. Maybe it's because I recognize ArenaNet is a business and their goal is to make money. I don't see it as greed, I see it as business. But then again, I don't really care if any company adds a cash shop, even if they are P2P. As long as they don't hinder my progress and force me to purchase anything, it doesn't really matter to me. Plus ArenaNet has provided a way to purchase cash shop items through in-game gold. So if I really want something, I can just save up my gold (which tbh, is a pretty useless currency in GW2), and trade it for gems. 

  • palulalulapalulalula vukovarPosts: 655Member
    Originally posted by meari
    Originally posted by MorpheusMJW

    Hello all,

    Usually the business model of a MMO is either F2P with cash shop or subscription model with lower cost purchase. I haven't seen barely any mention on this on the forums, other than when the prices were first announced, so does that mean it is now acceptable to charge £50-120 for an MMO and then tap a cash shop on as well?

     

    I could be more forgiving if the cash shop was just more bank slots like in GW1, but paying for character slots, when I have just purchased a £50 game is a bit greedy in my opinion. Add to that genuine advantages (regardless of how large or small and I know they can be very small advantages) people can get from purchasing consumable items, it seems ridiculous to me to even have these items, Arenanet already stand to make around £100million just for box sales alone (a conservative difference between the amount of prepurchases and beta accounts active)

     

    I can already imagine people posting 'The cash shop is optional and the advantages aren't even that significant'. Regardless of how significant they are, people have the option to run 25% faster than me, even after me paying £50 for a game.

    Its like paying £40 for FIFA and then they have a cash shop for all players in squad to run 25% faster, doesn't seem fair for me. I think the initial purchase should make it so everyone is on a level playing field. Don't get me wrong, I'm really looking forward to playing, but this is the only thing that disappoints me.

     

    So what do people think, is it now acceptable to charge £50+ for a game and then adding a cash shop?

    Let's see... WoW, Tera, Secret World... pay for game? check. Subscription? check. Cashshop? check.

    I think you should post this in The Pub as it seems more a genre issue.

     

    I don't have issue with GW2 cashshop as it currently is.

    Wow have cash shop?? You can buy only in wow some special mount without any speed advantage. What you need to pay is character transfer to another server but you don't need to pay for character  slots ora any potion or gear. Inform you please first, it looks to me like standard--''Hey wow is crap'' but i never tried wow before

  • evolver1972evolver1972 Port Orchard, WAPosts: 1,118Member
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan

    I think a good B2P+Cash shop model is one where $15 per month gives you a minor advantage indeed, but where its in no way required to play the game efficiently, $15 per month being the usual monthly fee of MMOs.

    GW2 seems to fit that bill just fine.

    ...And the great thing about that model is that you are not forced to spend that $15 yet you can still compete very well against other players in the game.

    The fact that someone levels faster than me in PvE doesn't bother me in the least because I'm not all about leveling, and neither is GW2.

    The fact that there are so many people playing WvWvW at any given time tends to nullify any boost those players may get from the CS.  In probably 95% of cases, you won't be fighting 1v1 or small group vs small group very much, so the boosts don't affect things very much.

    The fact that none of that stuff works in sPvP is undeniable.

     

    All of these things add up to:  GW2 CS is not Pay2Win at all and it's not necessary to buy anything from there to compete against other players.  And since it is a B2P game with an optional CS, Arenanet is far less greedy than ANY P2P game, especially the ones that require box/expansion purchases and even have a cosmetic CS.  And they are far less lazy.  They know they have to make a game good enough that people will want to continue to play and by expansions for.  And they know they have to sell items in the CS that people will actually want to buy that won't alienate their player base.

     

    How much easier would it be to simply charge a box price + subscription and make a bunch of money that way?

    image

    You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???

    Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member
    Originally posted by palulalula

    Wow have cash shop?? You can buy only in wow some special mount without any speed advantage. What you need to pay is character transfer to another server but you don't need to pay for character  slots ora any potion or gear. Inform you please first, it looks to me like standard--''Hey wow is crap'' but i never tried wow before

    doesnt matter if cash shop is only cosmetic

    its still a cash shop and what i consider "double dipping" if players are already paying a monthly sub

     

    for WOW players that want to buy experience bonuses,

    they can buy themselves a RAF second account for a 3 month 300% exp to both accts

     

    regardless of the primary intent of RAF being for friends,

    Blizzard says its fine for players to also boost *themselves* w this method -- even if no friend is involved

  • bookworm438bookworm438 Detroit, MIPosts: 647Member
    Originally posted by palulalula
    Originally posted by meari
    Originally posted by MorpheusMJW

    Hello all,

    Usually the business model of a MMO is either F2P with cash shop or subscription model with lower cost purchase. I haven't seen barely any mention on this on the forums, other than when the prices were first announced, so does that mean it is now acceptable to charge £50-120 for an MMO and then tap a cash shop on as well?

     

    I could be more forgiving if the cash shop was just more bank slots like in GW1, but paying for character slots, when I have just purchased a £50 game is a bit greedy in my opinion. Add to that genuine advantages (regardless of how large or small and I know they can be very small advantages) people can get from purchasing consumable items, it seems ridiculous to me to even have these items, Arenanet already stand to make around £100million just for box sales alone (a conservative difference between the amount of prepurchases and beta accounts active)

     

    I can already imagine people posting 'The cash shop is optional and the advantages aren't even that significant'. Regardless of how significant they are, people have the option to run 25% faster than me, even after me paying £50 for a game.

    Its like paying £40 for FIFA and then they have a cash shop for all players in squad to run 25% faster, doesn't seem fair for me. I think the initial purchase should make it so everyone is on a level playing field. Don't get me wrong, I'm really looking forward to playing, but this is the only thing that disappoints me.

     

    So what do people think, is it now acceptable to charge £50+ for a game and then adding a cash shop?

    Let's see... WoW, Tera, Secret World... pay for game? check. Subscription? check. Cashshop? check.

    I think you should post this in The Pub as it seems more a genre issue.

     

    I don't have issue with GW2 cashshop as it currently is.

    Wow have cash shop?? You can buy only in wow some special mount without any speed advantage. What you need to pay is character transfer to another server but you don't need to pay for character  slots ora any potion or gear. Inform you please first, it looks to me like standard--''Hey wow is crap'' but i never tried wow before

    Um... nobody said WoW is crap. People are pointing out that WoW is a P2P game that has a cash shop as well. Also the mounts do provide an advantage comparable to any advantage GW2 CS provides. Mounts you buy in WoW are instantly unlocked for every character in the game, so you never have to worry about spending gold on mounts. You only need to worry about purchasing the training. 

    My question for those complaining about character slots, how many characters do you really have? How many characters do you actually focus on. Other than a few select people, most people only focus on a couple characters. I'm not talking about creating 5 alts and having them all sit at level 12. I'm talking about legitimately creating alts that you will spend time on and level. 

  • trenshodtrenshod charlotte, MIPosts: 128Member

    I think it is great that GW2 has cash shops now what they expect you to buy from this cash shop I don't entirely agree with. 5 character slots to boot bullcrap oh you want more bag space pony up bitch bullcrap. Don't leach your customer base anet for christ sakes. If this is how you roll I would rather just pay a sub fee. Lets just nickle and dime our fanbase so they end up paying more than they would if they had a sub lol we win and our customers are none the wiser for its only $5 here $10 there (suckers).

    For the record I enjoy playing GW2 and will most likely play the hell out of it but that doesn't change how I feel about adding additional charges to core game items.

    Question: if I unlock additional bag space on one character is it just for that character or is it account wide? I'm guessing that its for that character, I don't recall how many bag unlocks there were but I'm thinking at least 6. Even if you didn't go with extra character slots your 5 slots worth of characters your looking at 30 or so expandable bag slots. I don't recall what the pricing was on those but its my guess its not going to be inexpensive.

  • HivesHives Norfolk, VAPosts: 177Member
    I still don't see why this is a bad thing compared to paying $15 a month because it's mostly all cosmetic and no real advantage. This video explains it
  • bookworm438bookworm438 Detroit, MIPosts: 647Member
    Originally posted by trenshod

    I think it is great that GW2 has cash shops now what they expect you to buy from this cash shop I don't entirely agree with. 5 character slots to boot bullcrap oh you want more bag space pony up bitch bullcrap. Don't leach your customer base anet for christ sakes. If this is how you roll I would rather just pay a sub fee. Lets just nickle and dime our fanbase so they end up paying more than they would if they had a sub lol we win and our customers are none the wiser for its only $5 here $10 there (suckers).

    For the record I enjoy playing GW2 and will most likely play the hell out of it but that doesn't change how I feel about adding additional charges to core game items.

    Question: if I unlock additional bag space on one character is it just for that character or is it account wide? I'm guessing that its for that character, I don't recall how many bag unlocks there were but I'm thinking at least 6. Even if you didn't go with extra character slots and expanded your bags for your 5 slots worth of characters your looking at 30 or so expandable bag slots. I don't recall what the pricing was on those but its my guess its not going to be inexpensive.

     

    1) Are you really going to focus on 5 characters all at once? Down the road it may be a problem (assuming they don't add character slots in expansions like GW1), but initially it won't be a problem. And over the course of the year or so it takes you to get to the point where you need more character slots, you could be spending gold on gems to save up for more character slots.

    2)  Bag space. Currently I believe there are a total of 5 bag slots. Your initial bag is 20 slots. At level 80, you should be able to get 22(I think that's the number) space bag slots available. Not to mention you have 30 bank slots, plus a whole separate tab for materials and collectables in your bank, which you can send your mats to from anywhere in the world. You can also post directly to the TP from anywhere in the world as well. You have plenty of space. People are freaking out because they see the option to purchase bag space in the CS, and they don't have much room currently. Of course you don't have much room currently, you're level 5. I have yet to see a game that allows you to purchase 20 slot bags right at level 5. 

  • clumsytoes44clumsytoes44 portland, ORPosts: 463Member
    With being able to purchase gems (cs currency) with ingame gold, some people's complaint's seem pointless.For me i have no problem's with the GW2 CS, as i would rather support a game that is fun, rather than pay a mandatory sub.
  • adaneshadeadaneshade Bryant, ALPosts: 36Member

    What gets me is the fact that all of the cash shop items simply serve to shorten the amount of time you spend in game. However, one of the chief selling points of any video game is gameplay hours, the more you hours of content the larger the bragging rights. 

    Is it not a contradiction to simultaneously want to shorten AND lengthen the amount of time it takes to complete all the available content?

     

    And before all the "it gets you to end-game faster thus it's P2W" nonsense, the game we are talking about here has no bimodal "endgame".

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,849Member Uncommon
    http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gem_Store

    Cannot buy buffs strait across

    Can buy gems with in-game gold

    There are two things that can answer the OP further but we'll have to wait: How often does ANet update content with the CS income and what is the normalized rate of in-game gold for gems.

    Assuming box sales is not a relevant argument against the CS.
  • LucioonLucioon Palm Harbor, FLPosts: 814Member Uncommon

    Currently there are three groups in this Cash Shop debate.

    1) Cash shop is always bad

    2) Cash shop is only bad in B2P

    3) Cash shop don't matter in GW2

    Regardless of your stance, if you are in 1, nothing will change, you have made up your mind. We understand your position, but don't try to preach to those in group 3.

    Those in 2, examples are given many times to disapprove that Cash Shops are bad in B2P, we have proven that not only is Cash Shop bad in B2P, its also bad in Subscribed games, and F2P. Therefore please make up your mind and go to Group 1. Its pretty much the same argument.

    Therefore, back to my first statement, since there really is only 2 groups, don't Preach to group 3, we have experienced it, and we find that Cash Shop don't matter in GW2.

    Since we can't convince Group 1, and Group 1 can't convince Group 3. And all the informations regarding the Cash Shop has already been told. Its no Secret what is in GW2 Cash Shops. There is really nothing to wait and see, its all available for everyone to see right now atm.

    To those that said wait till you have played till later levels, well it doesn't really matter, since its an non subscription game, you buy the game you own it. So just decide if its worth it, because if Cash Shop really bothers you, out weighting the fun of GW2, then you really should think twice before you buy. But stil, your money, your decision.

     

    Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.

  • altairraltairr SenecPosts: 81Member
    Originally posted by MorpheusMJW

    Hello all,

    Usually the business model of a MMO is either F2P with cash shop or subscription model with lower cost purchase. I haven't seen barely any mention on this on the forums, other than when the prices were first announced, so does that mean it is now acceptable to charge £50-120 for an MMO and then tap a cash shop on as well?

     

    I could be more forgiving if the cash shop was just more bank slots like in GW1, but paying for character slots, when I have just purchased a £50 game is a bit greedy in my opinion. Add to that genuine advantages (regardless of how large or small and I know they can be very small advantages) people can get from purchasing consumable items, it seems ridiculous to me to even have these items, Arenanet already stand to make around £100million just for box sales alone (a conservative difference between the amount of prepurchases and beta accounts active)

     

    I can already imagine people posting 'The cash shop is optional and the advantages aren't even that significant'. Regardless of how significant they are, people have the option to run 25% faster than me, even after me paying £50 for a game.

    Its like paying £40 for FIFA and then they have a cash shop for all players in squad to run 25% faster, doesn't seem fair for me. I think the initial purchase should make it so everyone is on a level playing field. Don't get me wrong, I'm really looking forward to playing, but this is the only thing that disappoints me.

     

    So what do people think, is it now acceptable to charge £50+ for a game and then adding a cash shop?

    +1 for you

    image

  • lilHealalilHeala ZwollePosts: 512Member Uncommon

    I find it odd that you think aditional storage in the shop is acceptable but aditional character slots isn't?

    You get 5 character slots included in the box price, there have been / are P2P games that offer less character slots and make you pay to unlock more slots.

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,849Member Uncommon
    Lucioon

    Do you know the formula ANet will be using to set the in-game gold value of 100 gems?
  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member
    Originally posted by Lucioon

     

     And all the informations regarding the Cash Shop has already been told. Its no Secret what is in GW2 Cash Shops. There is really nothing to wait and see, its all available for everyone to see right now atm.

    theres a big unknown for how rare Mystic keys will drop in game

    some people claim the keys are rare and thats what makes the store P2W

     

  • NeferaNefera XPosts: 426Member
    Originally posted by lilHeala

    I find it odd that you think aditional storage in the shop is acceptable but aditional character slots isn't?

    You get 5 character slots included in the box price, there have been / are P2P games that offer less character slots and make you pay to unlock more slots.

    I have to agree here, and I'm actually even slightly puzzled, as unless I've done my math badly wrong, it'd probably be more cost-effective to buy a character slot and use the character as a mule, than buy more storage space.

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