I played a few days again last week and just felt too restricted. Sorry, I prefer the Turbine way handling F2P. Would rather pay for content than every gear piece I come across because I can pay for the content when I get to it and then it's permanently unlocked on my account from then on out. With the gear issue, it feels like you are getting your hand slapped everytime you get a new item you want to wear, making it unrewarding and not worth the effort of even playing.
Besides, GW2 in 2 weeks and NO other game will enter my mind for months.
Looking at the list of games you have played saying no other game will enter your mind for 'months' is highly optimistic.I would change it to minutes.
Heres a repost of a post I made in 2010 about EQ2X vs LOTRO's model, educate yourself (all of these examples apply directly to Vanguard as well):
(1) LOTRO gives you access to 7 classes as a free player (Burglar, Captain, Champion, Minstrel, Hunter, Guardian and Lore-Master), there are only 9 classes in the game and the two they do not give free players are expansion content and always have been.
EQ2 has 24 classes, and they give you access to 8 for free. As a free player you get access to one third of the games classes for free, where as LOTRO gives free players access to every single (non-expansion) class for absolutely free.
(2) LOTRO only has 4 races, they give free players access to every race they have in the game for free immediately.
EQ2X has 19 available races, and they give you access to four for free. Forcing you to pay for nearly every race in the game.
(3) In LOTRO you can access ALL non expansion zones regardless of subscription level, it is the quest packs you need to pay for, and unlike EQ2X you can easily earn enough TP through ingame play to purchase the needed packs to unlock the content you desire.
(4) In LOTRO I can purchase a one month subscription, and retain everything I earned while VIP when my account reverts from VIP to Premium.
EQ2X locks any features you don't have access to if you subscribe and then revert back to a Bronze or Silver level. Forcing you to pay in order to regain access to those features, which is especially frustrating if you happen to have created characters while you were Gold or better that are not among the classes available at Bronze or Silver. Locked characters are pretty useless, no?
(5) EQ2X restricts a free players access to chat heavily. LOTRO does not.
(6) EQ2X restricts spell tiers. Which, despite what you claim, is very much a needed upgrade at endgame. No guilds intent on doing endgame content will take players with expert level spells, this is common knowledge, you are expected to have masters by 90 and this is no exception on 2X.
LOTRO does not restrict a free players access to class abilities or spells in any way.
(7) EQ2X restricts you from wearing any gear better than Mastercrafted as a free player. Again, hindering you seriously if you ever plan to use that character at endgame for anything other than questing or running content you outlevel.
LOTRO does not restrict a free players access to gear in any way.
SOEs devs have openly admited that the whole point of the payment model on 2X is to encourage freemium players to pay for subs, which (ironicly, and in typical SOE fashion) gives you access to LESS on EQ2X for the exact same price as a Live EQ2 sub which gives you everything the game has to offer.
I fail to see how EQ2X is the better deal in any way, shape or form. There is more than enough contrary evidence to prove otherwise. The restrictions LOTRO places on a free players are lax at best, and the fact that a free player can earn the TP ingame through free play to buy the needed packs for advancement is also a massive benefit over EQ2X.
What about numbers though?
EQ2X charges you 10 dollars for a guild charter. LOTRO does not charge anything for a kinship charter.
In EQ2X, what if I wanted to purchase the classes and races they don't offer me access to as a free player? Lets check out races first, shall we?
There are five race packs purchaseable in EQ2X (DE/Troll/Sarnak, Dwarf/Fae/HE, Gnome/Halfling/WE, Iksar/Ogre/Ratonga and Kerran/Froglok/Arasai). Each of these packs costs 750 Station Cash, equal to $7.50.
It would cost me $37.50 just to gain access to all of the games races.
Classes?
Well, individual classes (thats right, no "class packs" like races, you pay per single class) are also 750 Station Cash per class. With 16 available classes that are not accessable for free, you're looking at a whopping $120 just to purchase the classes.
So, if a new player wanted access to all classes and races (and wanted to start a guild), it would cost him or her an initial investment of $167.50 to be able to achieve that goal, or be forced into a sub where you will lose your content once it lapses.
What about LOTRO though?
Lets pretend that a free player wanted to buy those quests packs needed for 20-50 instead of earning the TP ingame, it would cost him or her a grand total of 17 dollars (and some change) to gain permanent access to the needed packs for progressing through the 20-50 range. This is the only purchase that would be required, and the users account would immediately be upgraded from Free to Premium just for making a purchase.
Seems like a no brainer to me.
Your entire post is wrong, doesn't even apply correctly to EQ2 (since x is gone). Each game that is F2P for SOE has it's own unique matrix. They are all Freemiums, but they are all different, including Vanguard's. None of the above applies to anything SOE offers currently.
Yes at end game you ll need better gear, but you do not need anything higher then green before that. The f2p is fine if taken as a nice casual second game idea. If you really need everything then sub. If you re so into GW2 then this game isn t really what you re looking for anyways.
I tried Everquest 2 when it went F2P and was confused as hell because i hadn't played since launch and their didn't appear to be the two starter cities, then was some new, snowy city.
Your entire post is wrong, doesn't even apply correctly to EQ2 (since x is gone). Each game that is F2P for SOE has it's own unique matrix. They are all Freemiums, but they are all different, including Vanguard's. None of the above applies to anything SOE offers currently.
You're wrong, but keep telling yourself you are not.
Also, did you miss the part where I said it was a repost from 2010? Of course things have changed since, but nowhere as drasticly as you want people to believe. 95% of my above statement is just as viable now as it was at the time it was originally posted.
Post data showing the opposite and prove me wrong?
Originally posted by I_Return been back for a bit, Games I deleted are about a good many, and pretty much on Vanguard right now. The game is "Massive" in every sense of the word and still one of the best looking game worlds ever crafted.
The draw distance, trees, volumetric clouds and expansive world are indeed impressive.
What is not is the control responsiveness and animations. They are about as bad as anything that I have ever seen in a game. You approach a mob and he starts meleeing you from 10 feet away. You and the mobs run like your on a moving escalator, etc. Pretty disappointing.
That is lag, you can't recognise lag when you see it?
This week has been a test week to iron out the bugs ready for the Official F2P launch, this has been stated many times, lag has played a big part in the last weeks lead up and is what causes mobs to attack from 10+ feet, not the control responsiveness and animations like you stated.
You do not see it but the game reads you as being within attacking distance, even though on your screen you have not got to that point yet.
This should be resolved during the patch being implemented now.
Heres a repost of a post I made in 2010 about EQ2X vs LOTRO's model, educate yourself (all of these examples apply directly to Vanguard as well):
(1) LOTRO gives you access to 7 classes as a free player (Burglar, Captain, Champion, Minstrel, Hunter, Guardian and Lore-Master), there are only 9 classes in the game and the two they do not give free players are expansion content and always have been.
EQ2 has 24 classes, and they give you access to 8 for free. As a free player you get access to one third of the games classes for free, where as LOTRO gives free players access to every single (non-expansion) class for absolutely free.
(2) LOTRO only has 4 races, they give free players access to every race they have in the game for free immediately.
EQ2X has 19 available races, and they give you access to four for free. Forcing you to pay for nearly every race in the game.
(3) In LOTRO you can access ALL non expansion zones regardless of subscription level, it is the quest packs you need to pay for, and unlike EQ2X you can easily earn enough TP through ingame play to purchase the needed packs to unlock the content you desire.
(4) In LOTRO I can purchase a one month subscription, and retain everything I earned while VIP when my account reverts from VIP to Premium.
EQ2X locks any features you don't have access to if you subscribe and then revert back to a Bronze or Silver level. Forcing you to pay in order to regain access to those features, which is especially frustrating if you happen to have created characters while you were Gold or better that are not among the classes available at Bronze or Silver. Locked characters are pretty useless, no?
(5) EQ2X restricts a free players access to chat heavily. LOTRO does not.
(6) EQ2X restricts spell tiers. Which, despite what you claim, is very much a needed upgrade at endgame. No guilds intent on doing endgame content will take players with expert level spells, this is common knowledge, you are expected to have masters by 90 and this is no exception on 2X.
LOTRO does not restrict a free players access to class abilities or spells in any way.
(7) EQ2X restricts you from wearing any gear better than Mastercrafted as a free player. Again, hindering you seriously if you ever plan to use that character at endgame for anything other than questing or running content you outlevel.
LOTRO does not restrict a free players access to gear in any way.
SOEs devs have openly admited that the whole point of the payment model on 2X is to encourage freemium players to pay for subs, which (ironicly, and in typical SOE fashion) gives you access to LESS on EQ2X for the exact same price as a Live EQ2 sub which gives you everything the game has to offer.
I fail to see how EQ2X is the better deal in any way, shape or form. There is more than enough contrary evidence to prove otherwise. The restrictions LOTRO places on a free players are lax at best, and the fact that a free player can earn the TP ingame through free play to buy the needed packs for advancement is also a massive benefit over EQ2X.
What about numbers though?
EQ2X charges you 10 dollars for a guild charter. LOTRO does not charge anything for a kinship charter.
In EQ2X, what if I wanted to purchase the classes and races they don't offer me access to as a free player? Lets check out races first, shall we?
There are five race packs purchaseable in EQ2X (DE/Troll/Sarnak, Dwarf/Fae/HE, Gnome/Halfling/WE, Iksar/Ogre/Ratonga and Kerran/Froglok/Arasai). Each of these packs costs 750 Station Cash, equal to $7.50.
It would cost me $37.50 just to gain access to all of the games races.
Classes?
Well, individual classes (thats right, no "class packs" like races, you pay per single class) are also 750 Station Cash per class. With 16 available classes that are not accessable for free, you're looking at a whopping $120 just to purchase the classes.
So, if a new player wanted access to all classes and races (and wanted to start a guild), it would cost him or her an initial investment of $167.50 to be able to achieve that goal, or be forced into a sub where you will lose your content once it lapses.
What about LOTRO though?
Lets pretend that a free player wanted to buy those quests packs needed for 20-50 instead of earning the TP ingame, it would cost him or her a grand total of 17 dollars (and some change) to gain permanent access to the needed packs for progressing through the 20-50 range. This is the only purchase that would be required, and the users account would immediately be upgraded from Free to Premium just for making a purchase.
Seems like a no brainer to me.
Your entire post is wrong, doesn't even apply correctly to EQ2 (since x is gone). Each game that is F2P for SOE has it's own unique matrix. They are all Freemiums, but they are all different, including Vanguard's. None of the above applies to anything SOE offers currently.
Yes that matrix is 2 years old, it is not the way things are run now many things have changed since eq2x went away and the live servers went free to play.
The problem that most folks don't understand is there is no free to play. It is a freemium, and with some lockouts. The lockouts encourage the free to play (endless trial accounts) to convert to a sub. Game companies make their money in selling the unlocks in the cash store, and the upgrades.
I have vangaurd downloading right now I am goingto see if my level 34 is still hanging around, it has been years since I played. I have no intention of resubing back to vangaurd, I just want to see how things have changed.
Originally posted by drakaena Honestly, this game was such a flop at launch that they should make all content free with a cosmetic cash shop. Nobody is going to pay for gear drops in a dated game. It's only going to push more people away. Sounds like their f2p model is a let down.
This is really the long and the short of it. This game could have been - and should have been - awesome, but they made a bollocks of the launch and it got a bad name which it has never shaken off. Most of the problems seem to have been corrected, but it's never been able to get the sub numbers up again and it doesn't sound as if this f2p nonsense is going to save it. They need to make this game entirely free for a month or two and advertise it like mad if there to have any hope of turning it round. It's a great game, but it's not got the numbers. This poster is right, who is going to part with hard cash, even small amounts, for gear in a game that's struggling to keep its head above water.?There's a recession on, you know...
Heres a repost of a post I made in 2010 about EQ2X vs LOTRO's model, educate yourself (all of these examples apply directly to Vanguard as well):
Seems like a no brainer to me.
Your entire post is wrong, doesn't even apply correctly to EQ2 (since x is gone). Each game that is F2P for SOE has it's own unique matrix. They are all Freemiums, but they are all different, including Vanguard's. None of the above applies to anything SOE offers currently.
Yes that matrix is 2 years old, it is not the way things are run now many things have changed since eq2x went away and the live servers went free to play.
The problem that most folks don't understand is there is no free to play. It is a freemium, and with some lockouts. The lockouts encourage the free to play (endless trial accounts) to convert to a sub. Game companies make their money in selling the unlocks in the cash store, and the upgrades.
I have vangaurd downloading right now I am goingto see if my level 34 is still hanging around, it has been years since I played. I have no intention of resubing back to vangaurd, I just want to see how things have changed.
Not to mention, LoTRO is also a Freemium, and recent changes in their matrix make EQ2 the best bargain gaming-wise, followed by a tie between LoTRO/EQ1, LoTRO is no where a good deal like it was Warner Brothers took that idea and said 'money'! Vanguard may be a better bargain than the EQ1/LoTRO tie, but not sure since you cannot unlock upper tier gear in Vanguard's matrix like you can in EQ2. EQ2 is the only freemium I have seen where you can actually unlock everything the game has to offer, where every other Freemium forces you to sub eventually if you want to see the entire game or use all of it's elements.
Why SOE didn't use the EQ2 model of unlocking everything via the shop confounds me to this day, LoTRO's change to a more restrictive model everyone saw coming when WB took them over.
Honestly EQ2 would probably be king of the Freemiums by far if they hadn't changed their expansion ruleset. They went from all expansions minus last for free (which was AWESOME), to some weird arse piecemeal moneygrab which was so obvious it forced at least 1/2 their playerbase away, the other 1/2 left was destroyed by their 'deal' with ProSieben, thus leaving EQ2 in the state it is. SOE is a master at martyrdom.
Regardless Vanguard should do well with this release to Freemium, it had nothing to lose.
Heres a repost of a post I made in 2010 about EQ2X vs LOTRO's model, educate yourself (all of these examples apply directly to Vanguard as well):
<snip>
What about LOTRO though?
Lets pretend that a free player wanted to buy those quests packs needed for 20-50 instead of earning the TP ingame, it would cost him or her a grand total of 17 dollars (and some change) to gain permanent access to the needed packs for progressing through the 20-50 range. This is the only purchase that would be required, and the users account would immediately be upgraded from Free to Premium just for making a purchase.
Seems like a no brainer to me.
regarding EQ2 - there no limits on chat channels
regarding Vanguard, all classes are available until level 20, then some are restricted
Content Access: want to access all content in LOTRO without grinding turbine points?
prepare to shell out close to $100.00
- Mines of Moria
- Rise of Isengard
- Riders of Rohan
Content Access, vanguard price: free
SOE also offers half price sales on Station Cash around 6x a year
People dont look at SOE games as "f2p"... they are known for nickel and diming their players.
One of the most absurd statements when you consider they are one of the few MMO companies that offer something like the All Access Station Pass, which is one of the best values in MMO gaming.
So, for 19.99/month you get a subscription to each of their sub games and VIP/Gold/Premium/whatever in each of their free to play games. You also get Station Cash added to your account, as well.
"I'd rahter pay a sub and get everything," is a common comment, so there's your sub. Now you don't have to worry about maybe paying 43 cents someday if you happen to find some top gear you might want to wear... in a game you probably played for 20 hours for free before finding that gear.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
This was one older title i was looking into playing but after the looking at the f2p model i dont really see myself ever playing this. I've heard great things about this game in the past but im afraid with the model they have now it is doomed to not get any where near the popularity if could of had.
Originally posted by Rider071 Vanguard may be a better bargain than the EQ1/LoTRO tie, but not sure since you cannot unlock upper tier gear in Vanguard's matrix like you can in EQ2.
I saw unlockers 5 for $2.25 when I was fooling around on VG last night. Maybe I didnt read them closely if they dont work on all gear. But it looked to me like they were there, as well as items to remove the soul bound tag
Originally posted by smokedogg311 This was one older title i was looking into playing but after the looking at the f2p model i dont really see myself ever playing this. I've heard great things about this game in the past but im afraid with the model they have now it is doomed to not get any where near the popularity if could of had.
Dont go by MMORPG.com opinion. The model did well enough for EQ2 or they wouldnt have used it here. No model would make the game have a population explosion. It just doesnt appeal to enough people. However the type of person that VG would appeal to is mostly one that wouldnt have a huge issue with the model.
Originally posted by Rider071 Vanguard may be a better bargain than the EQ1/LoTRO tie, but not sure since you cannot unlock upper tier gear in Vanguard's matrix like you can in EQ2.
I saw unlockers 5 for $2.25 when I was fooling around on VG last night. Maybe I didnt read them closely if they dont work on all gear. But it looked to me like they were there, as well as items to remove the soul bound tag
If that's true, that would be awesome, but I'm not going to hold my breath as I had my heart trampled on with EQ1's F2P matrix promises. They totally ruined that release, unless of course you play on a MAC.
I downloaded though, just waiting the 4 hours til maintainance on release day is over, lol. Always fun to play with that new game smell.
Comments
Looking at the list of games you have played saying no other game will enter your mind for 'months' is highly optimistic.I would change it to minutes.
Your entire post is wrong, doesn't even apply correctly to EQ2 (since x is gone). Each game that is F2P for SOE has it's own unique matrix. They are all Freemiums, but they are all different, including Vanguard's. None of the above applies to anything SOE offers currently.
People dont look at SOE games as "f2p"... they are known for nickel and diming their players.
The only true F2P game conversion that ive played was AION.
Lotro and EQ2 were both good but I subbed, the f2p options are too limited. Same for AoC.
I tried Everquest 2 when it went F2P and was confused as hell because i hadn't played since launch and their didn't appear to be the two starter cities, then was some new, snowy city.
oh forgot to mention, I went to download, it downloads fast and easy, but...as is SOE,
it's down for maintainance on launch day, /facepalm.
No, there is plenty to do, and you'll have enough points by 20 just from playing to buy your first quest pack and continue on without a hitch.
I refer you to my above post, numbers don't lie.
You're wrong, but keep telling yourself you are not.
Also, did you miss the part where I said it was a repost from 2010? Of course things have changed since, but nowhere as drasticly as you want people to believe. 95% of my above statement is just as viable now as it was at the time it was originally posted.
Post data showing the opposite and prove me wrong?
That is lag, you can't recognise lag when you see it?
This week has been a test week to iron out the bugs ready for the Official F2P launch, this has been stated many times, lag has played a big part in the last weeks lead up and is what causes mobs to attack from 10+ feet, not the control responsiveness and animations like you stated.
You do not see it but the game reads you as being within attacking distance, even though on your screen you have not got to that point yet.
This should be resolved during the patch being implemented now.
Yes that matrix is 2 years old, it is not the way things are run now many things have changed since eq2x went away and the live servers went free to play.
The problem that most folks don't understand is there is no free to play. It is a freemium, and with some lockouts. The lockouts encourage the free to play (endless trial accounts) to convert to a sub. Game companies make their money in selling the unlocks in the cash store, and the upgrades.
I have vangaurd downloading right now I am goingto see if my level 34 is still hanging around, it has been years since I played. I have no intention of resubing back to vangaurd, I just want to see how things have changed.
This is really the long and the short of it. This game could have been - and should have been - awesome, but they made a bollocks of the launch and it got a bad name which it has never shaken off. Most of the problems seem to have been corrected, but it's never been able to get the sub numbers up again and it doesn't sound as if this f2p nonsense is going to save it. They need to make this game entirely free for a month or two and advertise it like mad if there to have any hope of turning it round. It's a great game, but it's not got the numbers. This poster is right, who is going to part with hard cash, even small amounts, for gear in a game that's struggling to keep its head above water.?There's a recession on, you know...
they did open up blues
Not to mention, LoTRO is also a Freemium, and recent changes in their matrix make EQ2 the best bargain gaming-wise, followed by a tie between LoTRO/EQ1, LoTRO is no where a good deal like it was Warner Brothers took that idea and said 'money'! Vanguard may be a better bargain than the EQ1/LoTRO tie, but not sure since you cannot unlock upper tier gear in Vanguard's matrix like you can in EQ2. EQ2 is the only freemium I have seen where you can actually unlock everything the game has to offer, where every other Freemium forces you to sub eventually if you want to see the entire game or use all of it's elements.
Why SOE didn't use the EQ2 model of unlocking everything via the shop confounds me to this day, LoTRO's change to a more restrictive model everyone saw coming when WB took them over.
Honestly EQ2 would probably be king of the Freemiums by far if they hadn't changed their expansion ruleset. They went from all expansions minus last for free (which was AWESOME), to some weird arse piecemeal moneygrab which was so obvious it forced at least 1/2 their playerbase away, the other 1/2 left was destroyed by their 'deal' with ProSieben, thus leaving EQ2 in the state it is. SOE is a master at martyrdom.
Regardless Vanguard should do well with this release to Freemium, it had nothing to lose.
Of the free ones yeah it would probably be the best choice.
regarding EQ2 - there no limits on chat channels
regarding Vanguard, all classes are available until level 20, then some are restricted
Content Access: want to access all content in LOTRO without grinding turbine points?
prepare to shell out close to $100.00
- Mines of Moria
- Rise of Isengard
- Riders of Rohan
Content Access, vanguard price: free
SOE also offers half price sales on Station Cash around 6x a year
EQ2 fan sites
But then after that first quest pack you are stuck with deleting a character and rerolling to regrind all those slayer deeds to unlock the next one.
Oh some were locked on my toon last week. Good to hear.
One of the most absurd statements when you consider they are one of the few MMO companies that offer something like the All Access Station Pass, which is one of the best values in MMO gaming.
So, for 19.99/month you get a subscription to each of their sub games and VIP/Gold/Premium/whatever in each of their free to play games. You also get Station Cash added to your account, as well.
"I'd rahter pay a sub and get everything," is a common comment, so there's your sub. Now you don't have to worry about maybe paying 43 cents someday if you happen to find some top gear you might want to wear... in a game you probably played for 20 hours for free before finding that gear.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I saw unlockers 5 for $2.25 when I was fooling around on VG last night. Maybe I didnt read them closely if they dont work on all gear. But it looked to me like they were there, as well as items to remove the soul bound tag
I prolly won't, the game is to restrictive (F2P matrix)also it looks and feels dated.
Dont go by MMORPG.com opinion. The model did well enough for EQ2 or they wouldnt have used it here. No model would make the game have a population explosion. It just doesnt appeal to enough people. However the type of person that VG would appeal to is mostly one that wouldnt have a huge issue with the model.
If that's true, that would be awesome, but I'm not going to hold my breath as I had my heart trampled on with EQ1's F2P matrix promises. They totally ruined that release, unless of course you play on a MAC.
I downloaded though, just waiting the 4 hours til maintainance on release day is over, lol. Always fun to play with that new game smell.
patch notes from last week
http://forums.station.sony.com/vg/posts/list.m?topic_id=57981
Many items now require membership in order to be equipped.
These items can have their flag removed using the potion of unlocking
Potion of unlocking can be found on the marketplace
EQ2 fan sites