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  • RamanadjinnRamanadjinn Huntsville, ALPosts: 1,365Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bcbully
     

    @Raman above, would have prefered for me to have called them battlegrounds?

     

    doesn't matter to me what you call them.  you said men can only do 1000 games of structured pvp.  i was only concerned with where you retreived your data.  if i were you i would stop consulting that source as they have lied to you.

    i know for a fact some male humans have played well over 1000 arena games in WOW.  then theres league of legends, rift, and many FPS games that all have structured and lobby type pvp on instanced or small-scale maps.

    i certainly wouldn't discount players achieving 1000+ games in TSW here in the next few months if not sooner.

  • MosesZDMosesZD Kirkwood, MOPosts: 1,383Member
    Originally posted by DragonPop11

    http://forums.thesecretworld.com/showthread.php?t=53477

     

    Honestly, as a fan of TSW and  GW2, I couldn't help but laugh at how desperate the situation is

     

    What desperation?   Play time is down?  That's normal.    I think the game will do fine.   And I certainly don't dispute the release near GW2s announced release date helped matters.   I was getting ready to buy it when I read GW2's release date and put it off until later.

     

    In the end I will play it.   I liked the game.   Plus they have an ambitious update program so when one takes a break and thinks about coming back, the decision to come back is easier.   I think it'll be good to go in the long run and people who like the game will bring in others who like game.

     

    And even if the opening wasn't a blockbuster... So what?   Dark Souls went from 'meh' to a cult classic to a mainstream CRPG.   DayZ was just a mod...  Has one million players.   Minecraft...  A half-finished sand-box game.   I was in the first million, now it's what?  Over 7 million on the PC.

     

    And while I certianly don't think it'll be 'minecraft' popular.  I do think that for a company that had a lot of bad reputation to over-come (like Turbine) they did a good job of that.   And I think this MMO will (in the long run) grow, like LOTRO grew, for years.     

  • The_KorriganThe_Korrigan EastPosts: 2,630Member
    Originally posted by MosesZD
     ... like LOTRO grew, for years.     

    LOTRO grew until Mines of Moria. Then began the slow downfall that lead to the game going free to play. And believe me or not (and since we are on the GW2 forums, I will not refrain from giving my opinion, TSW fans can stick to TSW forums), I'm willing to bet that TSW will be free to play much faster than LOTRO, within the year to come at BEST (if not before, and I think it will be before), just like SW:TOR. See you here in August 2012 for a "told you so", either from you or from me... ;)

    If you wonder why I don't answer your posts, it's most likely because you are on my block list - so don't waste your time.

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  • MosesZDMosesZD Kirkwood, MOPosts: 1,383Member
    Originally posted by Kaneth
    Originally posted by colddog04
    He's not really considering the juggernaut that is WoW.

    Agreed. Even with WoW losing a couple of million subscribers, they are still boasting around 9 million subs. WoW is still the giant of the industry.

    If TSW went B2P you'd have an uptick of players most definately, and I am actually surprised they didn't go that route out the gate. However, it's also coming to a point where they really missed an opportunity to get folks in and hooked before GW2 and MoP come out.

     

    That number drive me nuts.   The real number is closer to 4.5 to 5 million western subs with the rest being Chinese kids who play on timecards for pennies and as subscribers are counted as anyone who logged on any WoW account for even one hour (time-card) in the quarter.   I read an analyst report years ago and at the time Blizzard got about 5% of it's WoW revenue from the 7 million Chinese time-card players.  That's a joke.

     

    The whole China thing is more about PR than income.   It's a nice little royalty.  But it isn't the truth of the game when we look at the western market.

     

    The real base (that is the people who pay for the game and make it a financial success) is about 5.5 million westerners (at peak) that provide the 95% financial support the game.   They're the ones that buy the expansions (Cataclysm sold 5.25 million copies last I checked, not 12 million or 9 million) which come free with the Chinese time-cards.  They're the ones that pay the $15 a month sub fee.   They're the ones that, when a million of them quit, caused Blizzards quarter-to-quarter sub revenue to drop by $101 million in 2Q2012 from 2Q2011.

     

     

     

     

     

  • cyress8cyress8 Croatia, VTPosts: 832Member
    Originally posted by Nitth

     


    Originally posted by Graey

    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus There is only one assuption in this blog i dont agree to, There will not be to many players leaving GW2 after just a single month of play. I think most peopel will stick atleast a few months with GW2 and after that might become frequent returners.   Which makes the whole conclusion a bit lackluster.
    I noticed on that post they were speaking of the GW2 hype dying down, and thusly giving TSW a chance to sort of surpass GW2. What I don't seem them doing is bringing up the fact that GW2 is buy to play. So I think the hype will last longer because when you buy the game that's it...no sub fees, no real need to use the cash shop  and on top of that you have a game that has a lot of content fresh out the gate.

     

     

    If the devs at GW2 decide to update on a regular like Trion (Rift) then TSW and WoW I believe will have a significant problem.

     

    Hell between one bwe and the next they added vistas...what was that like a month or so inbetween...come on. GW2 is about to mess the standards up make no mistake about that.


     

    Being b2p also makes it easier for people to "jump ship"

    Not really,  subs will make people "jump ship" a hell of alot faster since there is an ongoing cost involved.  Why would I keep wasting money to see if something improve and will probably take a few months.  With B2P,  it costs nothing to wait and you can keep playing till you see the improvements you want.

    BOOYAKA!

  • AlotAlot BredaPosts: 1,948Member


    Originally posted by dekou
    Originally posted by bcbully What you said in orange. This is me. I honestly believe PS2 is a bigger threat to GW2 than GW2 is to TSW. Why buy GW2 when PS2 is download and play. Atleast this is the feeling that hit me.
    Edit: Never mind the first post. I thought you were talking about PSO for some reason.

    PS2 is a shooter first and RPG second.


    PS2 isn't even an RPG. It's a 100% PvP First-Person Shooter structured like an MMO. And it will probably be a niche game.

  • MosesZDMosesZD Kirkwood, MOPosts: 1,383Member
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan
    Originally posted by MosesZD
     ... like LOTRO grew, for years.     

    LOTRO grew until Mines of Moria. Then began the slow downfall that lead to the game going free to play. And believe me or not (and since we are on the GW2 forums, I will not refrain from giving my opinion, TSW fans can stick to TSW forums), I'm willing to bet that TSW will be free to play much faster than LOTRO, within the year to come at BEST (if not before, and I think it will be before), just like SW:TOR. See you here in August 2012 for a "told you so", either from you or from me... ;)

     

    LOTRO grew until 2010 (through the Shadows of Mirkwood expansion (post Moria)) and peaked at just over 250K if I remember right.   Then they went F2P because Turbine saw how much more porfitable that model was.   And that made the subs grow to their all time high (over 600k, pushing 700k) under the hybrid model through 2011 (and RoI).  In 2012 the game crashed in subs to just under the 2010 numbers (somewhere around 225K).

     

    I do agree on TSW going F2P faster.   That was built into the game.   The hybrid model used by LOTRO, DCUO, DDO, STO and many other games is far more profitable for small MMOs with dedicated fan bases than the pure-sub model.    I think Funcom would have been stupid to not go box/sub with the initial release and not prepare for a hybrid model down the path. 

     

    I just don't see that the proposition that things are 'desperate' is warrented.   I think Funcom knew they'd be hammered by the critics because that's how it works.  It doesn't matter what you do today, you're bolstered (BioWare) or slammed (Funcom) for what you did in the past...

  • The_KorriganThe_Korrigan EastPosts: 2,630Member
    Originally posted by MosesZD
     

    LOTRO grew until 2010 (through the Shadows of Mirkwood expansion (post Moria)) and peaked at just over 250K if I remember right.   Then they went F2P because Turbine saw how much more porfitable that model was.

    You should give LOTRO more credit, it actually started with 300k subs in 2007 at release ;)

    And no, it peaked at Moria, and followed a long slope downwards since then. It went F2P because the subs were getting too low, and also a big part of the player base was lifetimers not paying a cent anymore.

    Make the game first P2P, perfectly knowing you will make it F2P in the year after release, and sell expensive lifetime accounts... what a nice cash cow model :)

    Originally posted by MosesZD

     I think Funcom would have been stupid to not go box/sub with the initial release and not prepare for a hybrid model down the path. 

    Oh yes, they even did a nice little scam that no fan will ever acknowledge with their lifetime accounts... since I'm pretty confident they know they will go free to play since long before release. It's called "milk the cash cow", just like Turbine does now with their pay to win F2P model.

    If you wonder why I don't answer your posts, it's most likely because you are on my block list - so don't waste your time.

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  • RamanadjinnRamanadjinn Huntsville, ALPosts: 1,365Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MosesZD
     

     

    I just don't see that the proposition that things are 'desperate' is warrented.   I think Funcom knew they'd be hammered by the critics because that's how it works.  It doesn't matter what you do today, you're bolstered (BioWare) or slammed (Funcom) for what you did in the past...

     

    that is interesting.  wasn't TSW praised for its relatively smooth release?  especially considering it was Funcom i never heard anyone with issues at the release of that game.  i'm asking honestly as i don't read reviews but i do know the game ran great when i played it and i encountered almost no bugs.  am i in a bubble? was i just fortunate to miss all the issues with the game miraculously?  or did they just pan it because its funcom?

  • otacuotacu BolzanoPosts: 547Member
    Originally posted by Graey
    Originally posted by otacu

    TSW is a really nice and niche title. 

    Unfortunately mmorpg are "do or die" games. They have only ONE chance at launch. There is no second chance.

     

    Even GW2 will be like that.

    But that thread is kind of aiming at the wrong target. Sure Gw2 is big and all but the biggest threat to TSW is another subscription mmorpg not a B2P. Like WOW for example that it's still king subscription wise.

    I don't know about only having one chance. Final Fantasy 14 is relaunching with FF14 2.0 at the end of the year. I will more than likely go back to that as well because I want to see the changes. Given that scenario and if I like the changes I will probably put Rift on hold or just log for raid for a time and continue with GW2 and FF14. Who knows however as I'm finding it increasingly hard to play video games with work, school, dating etc popping up.

    Well Final Fantasy 14 2.0 is just a different game.

     

    There is nothing left from the old game.

  • natuxatunatuxatu Denver, COPosts: 1,371Member

    Having played both Secret World and Guild Wars 2, there is a major flaw in that post. Guild Wars 2 is way better than the Secret World. At least at earlier levels that we have seen. I doubt very much that The Secret World is going to bring back any sort of player base from Guild Wars 2. The Secret World is not a bad game, but it felt inferior to Guild Wars 2 in every way. 

    If/When people do leave Guild Wars 2, it would probably be to go back to WoW or something. Not TSW.

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  • lilHealalilHeala ZwollePosts: 513Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Normike

    TSW is a good game. I just didn't enjoy it enough to justify a $15 a month. But B2P? Sure!

    Probably wouldn't play it if it was F2P like Lotro though. That's a ripoff. Making you pay for certain quests, or talents, or weapons, or skills. Just bad.

     

    If you expect a free game then yes but if you accept that F2P isn't actually free then the LOTRO model is one of the least bad ones (or best ones depending your opinion). Look at it this way, either you unlock chunks of content when you have the money and/or want to play it and have it unlocked forever or you pay a sub.

    If say you spend 100 bucks in the lotro store to unlock everything you want (which is very well possible if you make use of promotional offers and certain things like swift travel and trait slots remain unlocked if you sub for 1 month and then cancel again), then after 7-8 months playing you already payed less than someone who has a sub and has to remain subscribed to access all content. As opposed to you, who whenever you login will have access to everything you bought until the servers shut down.

    Oh and you can't buy any useful weapons in the store, just some starter crap stuff that you outlevel within a day playing anyways and buying skills in the store that you can else get through gameplay is just plain stupid imo.

  • Scripture1Scripture1 Philadelpihia, PAPosts: 426Member
    Originally posted by DragonPop11

    http://forums.thesecretworld.com/showthread.php?t=53477

     

    Honestly, as a fan of TSW and  GW2, I couldn't help but laugh at how desperate the situation is

    Desperate is exactly the right word for that post... Wow.

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  • loulakiloulaki PatrasPosts: 918Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by colddog04
    He's not really considering the juggernaut that is WoW.

    those who played WoW, as their main MMO, or it as their first MMO, they wont play anyother game for more than 1-2 months they will go back to WoW again or they will stop the genre disgusted from WoW ...

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  • MercAngelMercAngel odenton, MDPosts: 204Member

    there is also one thing about GW2 that every one seams to be missing. something they tested at the end of every BEW.

     

    they where testing the system to inject content into the game live at will any time they went with out have to shut server down or have you download a new patch take hungergames at the end of BE3 they put togeather in 15 min.

     

    no one has a system like that and all it would take is do fo some big event once a week they you may never see again and it will keep a lot of player playing

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  • TafaleTafale HaugesundPosts: 37Member
    Originally posted by Loke666
    Originally posted by Graey
    Originally posted by otacu

    TSW is a really nice and niche title. 

    Unfortunately mmorpg are "do or die" games. They have only ONE chance at launch. There is no second chance.

    Even GW2 will be like that.

    But that thread is kind of aiming at the wrong target. Sure Gw2 is big and all but the biggest threat to TSW is another subscription mmorpg not a B2P. Like WOW for example that it's still king subscription wise.

    I don't know about only having one chance. Final Fantasy 14 is relaunching with FF14 2.0 at the end of the year. I will more than likely go back to that as well because I want to see the changes. Given that scenario and if I like the changes I will probably put Rift on hold or just log for raid for a time and continue with GW2 and FF14. Who knows however as I'm finding it increasingly hard to play video games with work, school, dating etc popping up.

    It still rarely works to relaunch a MMO with the same name and basically the same setting.

    A few games do have turned around a humble launch do, Eve is probably the one most people have heard about.

    TSW largest advantage is that it is a none fantasy MMO and after all pretty well made, but it´s biggest disadvantage is that it is a P2P game with cashshops, it is hard enough for P2P games with no cashshop.

    If FC would have launched this as B2P instead things might have been very different, but I still don´t see it as with more active players than GW2. 

    B2P wouldn't really change much, at least for player retention. Many people left when the story was done and meeting the old gear grind, not liking the game, people that got tired of doing dungeons or people that got 10.4 completed and done with for them meaningful stuff in the ability wheel. All things irrelevant to having a subcription or not.

  • TafaleTafale HaugesundPosts: 37Member
    Originally posted by natuxatu

    Having played both Secret World and Guild Wars 2, there is a major flaw in that post. Guild Wars 2 is way better than the Secret World. At least at earlier levels that we have seen. I doubt very much that The Secret World is going to bring back any sort of player base from Guild Wars 2. The Secret World is not a bad game, but it felt inferior to Guild Wars 2 in every way. 

    If/When people do leave Guild Wars 2, it would probably be to go back to WoW or something. Not TSW.

    I think many will come back for the two new playfields, a few monthly updates and maybe to some degree the 10 man raid. It will most likely be only for one month though.

     

    That is at least when I plan to buy TSW :)

  • jdnycjdnyc Long Island City, NYPosts: 1,696Member
    Originally posted by natuxatu

    Having played both Secret World and Guild Wars 2, there is a major flaw in that post. Guild Wars 2 is way better than the Secret World. At least at earlier levels that we have seen. I doubt very much that The Secret World is going to bring back any sort of player base from Guild Wars 2. The Secret World is not a bad game, but it felt inferior to Guild Wars 2 in every way. 

    If/When people do leave Guild Wars 2, it would probably be to go back to WoW or something. Not TSW.

    This is absolutely a reasonable stance to take.  GW2 is your jam more than TSW.  I strongly disagree with you on story though.

    PvP wise?  GW2 wins hands down.

     

    TSW fans are rabid.  They're fighting for the survival of the game they love.  Would you be any different if ANet and GW2 was in a similar situation?

     

  • NateEssexNateEssex Hoboken, NJPosts: 58Member
    Originally posted by Normike

    TSW is a good game. I just didn't enjoy it enough to justify a $15 a month. But B2P? Sure!

    Probably wouldn't play it if it was F2P like Lotro though. That's a ripoff. Making you pay for certain quests, or talents, or weapons, or skills. Just bad.

     

    I still have days left of my first 30 included days and I am bored already. I found the combat one dimensional and was bored. The quests were cool, but that's it. 

    Current: GW2 (almost)
    Played: EQ, DAoC,EQOA,Shadowbane,WoW, WAR, SWTOR, TSW

  • JyiigaJyiiga Seneca, SCPosts: 1,042Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nitth

     


    Originally posted by Graey

    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus There is only one assuption in this blog i dont agree to, There will not be to many players leaving GW2 after just a single month of play. I think most peopel will stick atleast a few months with GW2 and after that might become frequent returners.   Which makes the whole conclusion a bit lackluster.
    I noticed on that post they were speaking of the GW2 hype dying down, and thusly giving TSW a chance to sort of surpass GW2. What I don't seem them doing is bringing up the fact that GW2 is buy to play. So I think the hype will last longer because when you buy the game that's it...no sub fees, no real need to use the cash shop  and on top of that you have a game that has a lot of content fresh out the gate.

     

     

    If the devs at GW2 decide to update on a regular like Trion (Rift) then TSW and WoW I believe will have a significant problem.

     

    Hell between one bwe and the next they added vistas...what was that like a month or so inbetween...come on. GW2 is about to mess the standards up make no mistake about that.


     

    Being b2p also makes it easier for people to "jump ship"

     

    Being B2P also makes it easier for people to drop in now and again. I often do not drop in on other games for say, a weekends worth of play.. because I don't want to front that 15 dollars.

    I don't have that problem with GW1 or GW2. 

  • heartlessheartless Brooklyn, NYPosts: 4,993Member

    Even if Funcom does follow that poster's advice and does a major relaunch initiative in October, I fear that it will do TSW little good. They need to fix their game before any relaunch. Last time I checked, besides broken quests, the chat still didn't work for some people. How do you launch an MMO and still have broken chat a month after the game's release?

    The game was released buggy and unfinished and sold poorly because of it, with an even poorer retention due to the heavy reliance on story content and lack of any emergent game play elements and no serious replay value. The sad thing is that because the game did poorly, Funcom will probably lay off a large chunk of their staff, which would mean slower bug fixes and less frequent update patches. Which, in turn, means even poorer sales and account retention.

    Barring a miracle, I highly doubt that TSW will bounce back.

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  • JyiigaJyiiga Seneca, SCPosts: 1,042Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by heartless

    Even if Funcom does follow that poster's advice and does a major relaunch initiative in October, I fear that it will do TSW little good. They need to fix their game before any relaunch. Last time I checked, besides broken quests, the chat still didn't work for some people. How do you launch an MMO and still have broken chat a month after the game's release?

    The game was released buggy and unfinished and sold poorly because of it, with an even poorer retention due to the heavy reliance on story content and lack of any emergent game play elements and no serious replay value. The sad thing is that because the game did poorly, Funcom will probably lay off a large chunk of their staff, which would mean slower bug fixes and less frequent update patches. Which, in turn, means even poorer sales and account retention.

    Barring a miracle, I highly doubt that TSW will bounce back.

    Yep... Kind of hard to hype and push things on us after most of us experienced AOC first hand. 

    Rinse and repeat. 

  • Eir_SEir_S Argyle, NYPosts: 4,623Member
    People who think everyone's going to stop playing GW2 after a month are in for a sad reality.
  • Eir_SEir_S Argyle, NYPosts: 4,623Member
    Originally posted by JoeyMMO
    Originally posted by otacu

    TSW is a really nice and niche title. 

    Unfortunately mmorpg are "do or die" games. They have only ONE chance at launch. There is no second chance.

     

    Even GW2 will be like that.

    But that thread is kind of aiming at the wrong target. Sure Gw2 is big and all but the biggest threat to TSW is another subscription mmorpg not a B2P. Like WOW for example that it's still king subscription wise.

     I don't think you're right in thinking that GW2 has no impact on TSW. You're competing for people's time and not having a sub is just icing on the cake. People won't pay a subscription just for the sake of paying a subscription, while not playing the game.

    This.  God, how many times do people have to say this in order for those claiming "you can have both sub and B2P at the same time" to get it?  Some people will pay for both, but at its core, the idea is not logical.  If I'm enjoying a B2P game, I'm not going to pay for a sub of something that's collecting dust.

    Anyone who thinks GW2 will not directly impact TSW sales and subs is really, really in the dark.

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