The PVE in GW2 is mediocre and will not hold the PVE crowd long term. This is painfully obvious to anyone who isnt drunk on the GW2 kool-aid. Good thing for GW2 is there are no good PVE centric MMO's coming anytime soon anyways so they have awhile to change their minds on adding raids.
This game is all about the PVP which is quite good but still needs to add and change a few things in order to be great (pvp ladders, rankings and the titles to go with it, and to remove the generic pvp names garbage). But when Planetside 2 drops it wont matter anyways because thats gonna be the next monster E-Sport game not GW2.
Raiding is a minority thing, but it's such a influential thing that nearly every MMO caters to this obnoxious minority,, and raiders love their stranglehold on MMOs. That's why you wrote this message. You don't want to lose the control you have over MMOs.
The reason they are so influential is merely because they are always very active in the forums and always take to the forums to complain and what not, if more casuals were to take to the forums and voice their opinions more, there's no way any developer would listen to the raiding minority. Raiding sucks big time as a form of endgame imo simply because it's just about grinding some gear to enter some other raid and than grind some more rinse repeat, which has been said to death here as well.
To the casuals:
Do NOT allow your voice to be shutdown by the raiding minority which is what they always try to do when you don't agree with them, calling you whatever name comes to mind. Telling you, you don't know more than they do because they have been raiding for years etc etc.
I think one of the keys to understanding if you will like PvE or not is this:
Are you focused on the Journey or the Destination?
I feel the GW2 is about the joruney. I don't worry about leveling or getting my next loot drop, I get pulled into one crazy adventure after another. Weither its exploring mines for angry Mole-people, or deciding that I wont allow any centaur outposts in this area. For me, the game falls away and its just an interesting story I get to explore.
Some folks are focused on the destination. And this is not wrong. Just a diffferent view. They look more at what they will get in the end. How much stronger will they be? They want to take on tougher and tougher challenges and know that the boss they killed has only been felled by the best.
It is 300 pages of people arguing about raid content, who "deserves" to see it, and who "deserves" to get gear out of it, and how quickly it is consumed.
From what I've seen, raiders want raids to be exclusive to them so they can "earn" gear that is also exclusive to them. It doesn't matter if only 5% - 10% of the playerbase actually raided before LFR. Only 1.5% of the playerbase actually completed firelands on normal. These are WoW related figures, obviously, but it has the largest sample size for analysis.
If you have time to kill, just click a random page.
"Loading screens" are not "instances". Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.
Would raiders even really play this? Would they line up a lot of people and clear content for a cool looking helmet that provides the same stats as my Helm of Poorness? I don't mind raiders, I personally was never into it even though I played Everquest for several years. I always kind of felt not as important though, as in I felt Devs spent a ton more effort to appease them. Where as I was happy just doing group content with friends and Slumming on some pvp servers
I don't care if they added some raiding, but i just think without the statistical advantages that they would be popular. Of course that probably opens the door for complaints about difficult stuff deserves special rewards and best gears.
The PVE in GW2 is mediocre and will not hold the PVE crowd long term. This is painfully obvious to anyone who isnt drunk on the GW2 kool-aid. Good thing for GW2 is there are no good PVE centric MMO's coming anytime soon anyways so they have awhile to change their minds on adding raids.
This game is all about the PVP which is quite good but still needs to add and change a few things in order to be great (pvp ladders, rankings and the titles to go with it, and to remove the generic pvp names garbage). But when Planetside 2 drops it wont matter anyways because thats gonna be the next monster E-Sport game not GW2.
Apparently you didnt read my response:
As a hardcore PvE player I disagree. Raiding does not equate endgame, in fact it narrowly defines it. GW2 has oodles of endgame for the PvE'er.
From Legendary building, to map completion, to the Orr zone, to the 1500+ Dynamic events spread about a VERY large map. Im sorry if you dont see it, and sure this wont please the raiding community but seeing as the raiding community is around 10% of the playerbase of a given MMO then its not a bad thing.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
The PVE in GW2 is mediocre and will not hold the PVE crowd long term. This is painfully obvious to anyone who isnt drunk on the GW2 kool-aid. Good thing for GW2 is there are no good PVE centric MMO's coming anytime soon anyways so they have awhile to change their minds on adding raids.
This game is all about the PVP which is quite good but still needs to add and change a few things in order to be great (pvp ladders, rankings and the titles to go with it, and to remove the generic pvp names garbage). But when Planetside 2 drops it wont matter anyways because thats gonna be the next monster E-Sport game not GW2.
game is not ever close to being all about PVP.. could take a look at the videos in my sig to show you otherwise.
Not necessary. Ive beta tested GW2 multiple times. The PvE is not nearly as interesting as you try and make it out to be. It doesnt offer enough character progression to have any real longevity with the PvE crowd. Most people simply will not care to grind a rainbow sword which gives them no statistical advantage. Most people will not want to grind boring "events" when they get hardly anything interesting in return.
Around October-November this will be very obvious. The PvPers will still be around but the PVE zones will be quite empty.
What was it like in Orr? I'm assuming that you must have tried this content out to have such a solid perception on the PvE content in GW2.
or perhaps you can tell me how all 32 dungeons were.. or how the elder dragon battles went.. I'd love to know as well
Well obviously its gonna be the most bestest PVE of all times and it will be so kewl cuz its GW2 and it has to be the best cuz its GW2 /logic.
Seriously though. I have played enough of GW2 PVE to be able to determine how super cool and amazing the pointless "endgame" is gonna be. But you have watched hype videos so obviously I am wrong. GW2 PVE will be a paradigm shift which will change the world.
Oh, so you have played the "endgame" components like the dungeons and Orr? How were they?
Also, what "purposeful" "endgame" have you played? How purposeful is any endgame? Aren't all games in general pretty pointless? They are pointless to me outside of entertainment. And I've played enough of GW2 PvE to be able to determine how entertaining it's "pointless" endgame will be to me. Which is pretty damn entertaining.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
It is 300 pages of people arguing about raid content, who "deserves" to see it, and who "deserves" to get gear out of it, and how quickly it is consumed.
From what I've seen, raiders want raids to be exclusive to them so they can "earn" gear that is also exclusive to them. It doesn't matter if only 5% - 10% of the playerbase actually raided before LFR. Only 1.5% of the playerbase actually completed firelands on normal. These are WoW related figures, obviously, but it has the largest sample size for analysis.
If you have time to kill, just click a random page.
That just confirms my assertion that the people who scream about having to have raids in a game are a very small, but very vocal minority who, if they're not kept in check, will take over and destroy any cool game out there.
I don't mind raiding as a possible endgame component alongside a slew of other options. What I have a problem with is making it basically the "only" endgame component.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
It is 300 pages of people arguing about raid content, who "deserves" to see it, and who "deserves" to get gear out of it, and how quickly it is consumed.
From what I've seen, raiders want raids to be exclusive to them so they can "earn" gear that is also exclusive to them. It doesn't matter if only 5% - 10% of the playerbase actually raided before LFR. Only 1.5% of the playerbase actually completed firelands on normal. These are WoW related figures, obviously, but it has the largest sample size for analysis.
If you have time to kill, just click a random page.
That just confirms my assertion that the people who scream about having to have raids in a game are a very small, but very vocal minority who, if they're not kept in check, will take over and destroy any cool game out there.
I don't mind raiding as a possible endgame component alongside a slew of other options. What I have a problem with is making it basically the "only" endgame component.
Me either, what I do have a problem is the elitist mentality that ALL raiders seem to have. I also dont mind if raiding rewards cosmetic or aesthetically pleasing gear based on a horizontal progression. Vertical progression HAS to go.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Just like in reality. Would you want everyone to have the same equal standing even though you work twice as many hours as the other guy doing the same job? This equality crap to me makes no sense because if that is true why not go give half of what you own to some random homeless near you?
The problem with this statement is that raiding in most MMOs is not technically "harder" for the individuals. Most individuals just have to memorize a few little details about the fight and how they need to react to those details. It's scripted mechanics for each encounter and a whole lot of people who raid just go online and watch videos of someone else doing it to memorize the script.
Raiding is only technically "harder" in two ways:
1. If you are one of the first groups doing it and you have to learn the fight and figure it out for yourselves.
2. You have to organize and get a large group of people to coordinate, which is difficult for the ones RUNNING the raid (not those who are just participating)
Now, I agree, if you are in the #1 scenerio above, raiding is incredible. It is exhilirating and it is a ton of fun. And imo, that is the only reward or incentive you actually need. It certainly is the only incentive I ever needed to do it.
For the #2 scenerio, even if I choose to buy into the fact that the people working harder deserve to be rewarded better...then only raid leaders and sub-leaders deserve any special rewards.
Either way you cut it, let's be honest about it and acknowledge that for the average raider, raiding is not harder to do. It might be harder to get into in the first place, but the actual beating of the content is nothing but rote memorization of cues and the appropriate reaction to them. When I was raiding in MMOs where I was not in guilds that were doing raid content before guides and videos showed up online it was some of the most boring content in those games because of this.
That's not really true at all. At least not in WoW, the most popular raiding MMO out there today (#-wise). I hear that a lot even by WoW players - but when it comes down to it, fill a raid, and be surprised how many people and raids fail on a consistant basis. It's NOT easy usually. You DO need to be enchanted, gemmed, geared properly, and so on. Enrage timers ensure that people can do enough dps. How hard bosses hit determine if your tanks are up to snuff. AOE damage keeps healers on their toes. I see all the time.. "pfft, raiding is easy!," but in reality, it's not. In WoW at least. it's not until multiple timed raid nerfs that groups start getting down some bosses they couldn't beat before.
And how many guilds can beat the heroic version of the raid content? Not very many. It IS difficult. It's not just memorization - it's reaction and making good decisions too. Raiding is more than just a game of Simon, some people would lead you to believe. There is nothing wrong with raiding imo - I really like the concept. It gives you some new marks to shoot for in the end game.
However, I am all for trying something new - I'd love to see a game where the endgame is different but still engaging. I think that is what killed it for me in almost all the other MMOs I have tried before and after WoW. The only one I thought was sort of smart was DAoC and the PvP they tried to implement. Otherwise, games like Aion, Star Wars, Conan, Rift and others.. they all started boring me terribly by the endgame. This game looks engaging.. I can't wait to try it. : )
The PVE in GW2 is mediocre and will not hold the PVE crowd long term. This is painfully obvious to anyone who isnt drunk on the GW2 kool-aid. Good thing for GW2 is there are no good PVE centric MMO's coming anytime soon anyways so they have awhile to change their minds on adding raids.
This game is all about the PVP which is quite good but still needs to add and change a few things in order to be great (pvp ladders, rankings and the titles to go with it, and to remove the generic pvp names garbage). But when Planetside 2 drops it wont matter anyways because thats gonna be the next monster E-Sport game not GW2.
As someone who had chance to play both games mentioned above I have to 100% agree with this man.
Tho I probably end up buying GW2, cuz I dont feel like going back to wow lol .... .. ... /sigh
As someone who had chance to play both games mentioned above I have to 100% agree with this man.
Tho I probably end up buying GW2, cuz I dont feel like going back to wow lol .... .. ... /sigh
what was your issue on PVE? and what MMO do you feel has great PVE in your opinion?
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
While I'm not a big fan of raiding, I have yet to see anything GW2 has that will prolong the interest of it's PvE community. It's PvP is adequate endgame, but I have very little doubt that you're going to hear a lot of complaining from the PvE community.
So no, it's not a strength. It would be a strength if they implemented a meaningful alternative, but right now theres nothing to fill the gap adequately..
The thing is... Raiding doesn't really prolong pve either. The only people left doing Raids are those that can't realize they're simply doing the same repetitive shit over and over and over until they get higher numbers. When you realize how boring and dated this system of longevity is it's senseless to include it into any game you want to be good.
The PVE in GW2 is mediocre and will not hold the PVE crowd long term. This is painfully obvious to anyone who isnt drunk on the GW2 kool-aid.
I guess this means anyone that dosen't agree with you is 'drunk on kool-aid'... not that they can simply enjoy PvE that you find 'mediocre'?
For my part, kool-aid or not, I have enjoyed GW2 PvE a lot. More so in fact then standard PvE questing. If it is mediocre in this game, then the genre has seen sub mediocre PvE for around 8 years now IMO.
I guess you will just dismiss me as 'drunk' though. Easier that way for you I guess.
The better question is why is a great thing. If you don't want to raid don't. There are people that want to raid. It bothers you that they are raiding and your not?
They can't even get good gear to compete in pvp if that's what bothers you, since in guild wars2 all gear have the same power.
While I'm not a big fan of raiding, I have yet to see anything GW2 has that will prolong the interest of it's PvE community. It's PvP is adequate endgame, but I have very little doubt that you're going to hear a lot of complaining from the PvE community.
So no, it's not a strength. It would be a strength if they implemented a meaningful alternative, but right now theres nothing to fill the gap adequately..
The thing is... Raiding doesn't really prolong pve either. The only people left doing Raids are those that can't realize they're simply doing the same repetitive shit over and over and over until they get higher numbers. When you realize how boring and dated this system of longevity is it's senseless to include it into any game you want to be good.
Maybe you are an elite raider who just faceroll all the raids with your elite group.
The fun thing about raid to me is killing the boss which you havn't kill yet. That's the whole game to me. And alot of the time I didn't even complete all the raids in most game I tried. Maybe they just made raid too easy that everyone can faceroll them now.
I have no problem with Raids. I'm not really a PvE type of guy anymore, I enjoy the higher skill level required of PvP and the satisfaction of beating another human being, but I can respect PvE. And of course, PvE can be pretty damn hard - especially when you are learning a fight for the first time and nobody is there to guide you on the correct strategy.
Raiding is cool as shit for people that are into it. Sure, a lot of people aren't, and its easy to get burnt out from ANYTHING you do over and over again - but raiding is pretty damn cool and epic at times.
Think about those times you had when you were young, maybe playing FF7, Sonic 2, Mario 64, Castlevania, or whatever. You are on that last boss, and you keep on dying. You finally get the strategy down, and you are finally able to beat that boss. You felt great - accomplished, satisfied. Now imagine doing that in a group of 5, 10, 20, 30, 40 other people and how great it feels.
Pretty epic - especially when you had to work hard for it. But like I said, anybody can get burnt out from doing anything over and over again especially when it no longer provides satisfaction.
Originally posted by sammyeli OP has created the most sucessful troll posts!
Ahh, MMORPG.com, where intelligently written posts somebody might not like is slammed as trolling. Anyway, I totally agree, the absense of raiding is one of the reasons I'm semi excited about this game. Raiding is a concept that needs to be thrown in the bin already.
While some detractors attempt to use this fact as a criticism of something Guild Wars 2 is lacking, the truth is that it’s actually one of the game’s strengths in my opinion.
it gives us a world which is virtually level-less - you can be any level and still enjoy any part of it....
Oh Really! Up-leveling was sacked early on in PVE. There is only down-leveling in open world.
Instant level 80 only happends in sPVP and WvW pvp.
So how is a level 20 going to accomplish anything in the 75+ zones?
I am not sure if you really understand the reasons why they took away up-scaling.
Up-scaling destroys the game, because it allows everyone to skip content. While Down-scaling allows anyone that experiences the contents to go back and experience all the contents they might have missed or wanted to experience again.
Up-scaling decrease the life of the game, where people can focus on 1 aspect of the game, while Down-scaling opens the game to everyone for all aspects.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
I have never been big on raids. Like others have said though, I think they are making a mistake. Having raids in the game wouldn't hurt people that don't raid since there is no gear progression outside of cosmetics. It would make the pro-raid group happy, with no downside for others, and increase the longevity of PvE.
Doing away with raids would be fine if they had thought of something better to replace it with. (An actual incentive to go back and complete those areas. Doing content for contents sake is never going to cut it, in my opinion.) As it stands, all they're going to do is alienate a percentage of their playerbase that actually enjoys it. I stop playing current MMOs when it comes time to raid, but just because I do doesn't mean I am not aware of the large groups that continue to go to raids day in and day out.
While some detractors attempt to use this fact as a criticism of something Guild Wars 2 is lacking, the truth is that it’s actually one of the game’s strengths.
Let’s start by dispelling the myth of raiding as the ultimate in PvE endgame content. I enjoyed raiding in other MMOs for a number of years, but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s designed to force players to spend their time on repetitive, scripted tasks purely for the sake of advancing to the next tier of repetitive, scripted tasks. Because of their static nature, and because they rely on the holy trinity of dedicated tanks, healers and damage dealers, raid boss encounters are like a puzzle, but it’s a puzzle you only need to solve once. Where does the tank stand? How many healers do you need? Can the DPS stay out of fire? Once you solve the puzzle, or have it solved for you by reading a kill strategy step by step, it’s really little challenge to repeat it over and over again.
And you WILL need to repeat it over and over again. Subscription MMOs need to keep you coming back to do the same thing week after week, long after the novelty has worn off, and the only way to incentivize the experience is to gate the rate at which everyone acquires gear. That’s why gear is randomized when it drops and why not everyone who participated gets a reward. That’s why content has weekly lockouts, preventing you from running it over and over again as much as you’d like. Similar to a Las Vegas slot machine, raiding is designed to give you a gambler’s high every so often so you’ll keep chasing that high night after night. The time you sink into raiding can really start to add up for adults with college courses, full-time jobs and families. Having to put your social life on hold, or to sacrifice time spent on other hobbies or with friends and family just to chase pixels with better stats, shouldn’t be considered the ultimate endgame experience.
Thankfully, Guild Wars 2 doesn’t have raiding. What it does have are other forms of large-scale, cooperative content that are far more dynamic, and far less monopolizing of your time, than raiding. The best part about all of this content is that you can participate and compete in every bit of it on a level playing field, without the barrier to entry of gear grinds, regardless of how much time you have to play.
While I'm not a big fan of raiding, I have yet to see anything GW2 has that will prolong the interest of it's PvE community. It's PvP is adequate endgame, but I have very little doubt that you're going to hear a lot of complaining from the PvE community.
So no, it's not a strength. It would be a strength if they implemented a meaningful alternative, but right now theres nothing to fill the gap adequately..
Sounds like you've bought into the raiding myth. Raiding is not the huge end game of even the King of Raiding Games --- WoW. Nor is it PvP. Between the raiders and PvPers, you've got about 20% or so of the population (unless you're talking niche MMOs).
What does the other 80% do?
They socialize (the largest self-identified group when surveyed). They craft. They explore. They spend hours figuring out builds and game mechanics. They advise people in the forums and train noobs in game. They roll alts and re-experience the game. They grind cosmetics. They collect things like pets and cosmetic gear. They role-play. They design in-game, player-run events. They participate in GM run events. They play/manipulate the market (economic PvP). They may even go PvP as casuals with their PvP friends. They may even raid on some easy-mode raids with their raid friends. They do all kinds of things and they do it without being lead by the nose by a developer because they use their initiative to create the game they want to play instead of being passive and relying solely on the developers to entertain them.
This 'there is no raiding (or PvP for the PvPers) endgame so the game will fail' is a myth. These are subsets of the entire gaming population that vastly over-rate what they do and constantly spam the forums about how the game will fail if they're not catered to... All while the people who create their own fun are in game creating their own fun and are rarely heard from...
Sounds like you've bought into the raiding myth. Raiding is not the huge end game of even the King of Raiding Games --- WoW. Nor is it PvP. Between the raiders and PvPers, you've got about 20% or so of the population (unless you're talking niche MMOs).
What does the other 80% do?
/snip
This post is factually false.
WoW's Wrath raiding had over 50% of the playerbase playing it.
It was something Blizzard was very vocal about.
WIth the LFR system in Cata, I'd imagine that number went UP.
I don't get why not putting in a game mechanic can be a 'good' thing.
Give players choices and let them choose what they want to do.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Comments
The reason they are so influential is merely because they are always very active in the forums and always take to the forums to complain and what not, if more casuals were to take to the forums and voice their opinions more, there's no way any developer would listen to the raiding minority. Raiding sucks big time as a form of endgame imo simply because it's just about grinding some gear to enter some other raid and than grind some more rinse repeat, which has been said to death here as well.
To the casuals:
Do NOT allow your voice to be shutdown by the raiding minority which is what they always try to do when you don't agree with them, calling you whatever name comes to mind. Telling you, you don't know more than they do because they have been raiding for years etc etc.
Angry Joe's Guild Wars 2 video review
Aerowyn's Video Compilation of ALL things Guild Wars 2
@Taugrim explains why the fanbois don't get it
I think one of the keys to understanding if you will like PvE or not is this:
Are you focused on the Journey or the Destination?
I feel the GW2 is about the joruney. I don't worry about leveling or getting my next loot drop, I get pulled into one crazy adventure after another. Weither its exploring mines for angry Mole-people, or deciding that I wont allow any centaur outposts in this area. For me, the game falls away and its just an interesting story I get to explore.
Some folks are focused on the destination. And this is not wrong. Just a diffferent view. They look more at what they will get in the end. How much stronger will they be? They want to take on tougher and tougher challenges and know that the boss they killed has only been felled by the best.
This is one of my favorite threads relating to the issue of raids:
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/4879017939?page=1
It is 300 pages of people arguing about raid content, who "deserves" to see it, and who "deserves" to get gear out of it, and how quickly it is consumed.
From what I've seen, raiders want raids to be exclusive to them so they can "earn" gear that is also exclusive to them. It doesn't matter if only 5% - 10% of the playerbase actually raided before LFR. Only 1.5% of the playerbase actually completed firelands on normal. These are WoW related figures, obviously, but it has the largest sample size for analysis.
If you have time to kill, just click a random page.
"Loading screens" are not "instances".
Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.
Would raiders even really play this? Would they line up a lot of people and clear content for a cool looking helmet that provides the same stats as my Helm of Poorness? I don't mind raiders, I personally was never into it even though I played Everquest for several years. I always kind of felt not as important though, as in I felt Devs spent a ton more effort to appease them. Where as I was happy just doing group content with friends and Slumming on some pvp servers
I don't care if they added some raiding, but i just think without the statistical advantages that they would be popular. Of course that probably opens the door for complaints about difficult stuff deserves special rewards and best gears.
Apparently you didnt read my response:
As a hardcore PvE player I disagree. Raiding does not equate endgame, in fact it narrowly defines it. GW2 has oodles of endgame for the PvE'er.
From Legendary building, to map completion, to the Orr zone, to the 1500+ Dynamic events spread about a VERY large map. Im sorry if you dont see it, and sure this wont please the raiding community but seeing as the raiding community is around 10% of the playerbase of a given MMO then its not a bad thing.
Guild Wars 2 End Game (7.12.12.) Q&A Part 1
Guild Wars 2 End Game (7.12.12.) Q&A Part 2
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Oh, so you have played the "endgame" components like the dungeons and Orr? How were they?
Also, what "purposeful" "endgame" have you played? How purposeful is any endgame? Aren't all games in general pretty pointless? They are pointless to me outside of entertainment. And I've played enough of GW2 PvE to be able to determine how entertaining it's "pointless" endgame will be to me. Which is pretty damn entertaining.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!
That just confirms my assertion that the people who scream about having to have raids in a game are a very small, but very vocal minority who, if they're not kept in check, will take over and destroy any cool game out there.
I don't mind raiding as a possible endgame component alongside a slew of other options. What I have a problem with is making it basically the "only" endgame component.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!
Me either, what I do have a problem is the elitist mentality that ALL raiders seem to have. I also dont mind if raiding rewards cosmetic or aesthetically pleasing gear based on a horizontal progression. Vertical progression HAS to go.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
That's not really true at all. At least not in WoW, the most popular raiding MMO out there today (#-wise). I hear that a lot even by WoW players - but when it comes down to it, fill a raid, and be surprised how many people and raids fail on a consistant basis. It's NOT easy usually. You DO need to be enchanted, gemmed, geared properly, and so on. Enrage timers ensure that people can do enough dps. How hard bosses hit determine if your tanks are up to snuff. AOE damage keeps healers on their toes. I see all the time.. "pfft, raiding is easy!," but in reality, it's not. In WoW at least. it's not until multiple timed raid nerfs that groups start getting down some bosses they couldn't beat before.
And how many guilds can beat the heroic version of the raid content? Not very many. It IS difficult. It's not just memorization - it's reaction and making good decisions too. Raiding is more than just a game of Simon, some people would lead you to believe. There is nothing wrong with raiding imo - I really like the concept. It gives you some new marks to shoot for in the end game.
However, I am all for trying something new - I'd love to see a game where the endgame is different but still engaging. I think that is what killed it for me in almost all the other MMOs I have tried before and after WoW. The only one I thought was sort of smart was DAoC and the PvP they tried to implement. Otherwise, games like Aion, Star Wars, Conan, Rift and others.. they all started boring me terribly by the endgame. This game looks engaging.. I can't wait to try it. : )
As someone who had chance to play both games mentioned above I have to 100% agree with this man.
Tho I probably end up buying GW2, cuz I dont feel like going back to wow lol .... .. ... /sigh
what was your issue on PVE? and what MMO do you feel has great PVE in your opinion?
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
OP doesn't strike me as a troll.
The thing is... Raiding doesn't really prolong pve either. The only people left doing Raids are those that can't realize they're simply doing the same repetitive shit over and over and over until they get higher numbers. When you realize how boring and dated this system of longevity is it's senseless to include it into any game you want to be good.
I guess this means anyone that dosen't agree with you is 'drunk on kool-aid'... not that they can simply enjoy PvE that you find 'mediocre'?
For my part, kool-aid or not, I have enjoyed GW2 PvE a lot. More so in fact then standard PvE questing. If it is mediocre in this game, then the genre has seen sub mediocre PvE for around 8 years now IMO.
I guess you will just dismiss me as 'drunk' though. Easier that way for you I guess.
The better question is why is a great thing. If you don't want to raid don't. There are people that want to raid. It bothers you that they are raiding and your not?
They can't even get good gear to compete in pvp if that's what bothers you, since in guild wars2 all gear have the same power.
Maybe you are an elite raider who just faceroll all the raids with your elite group.
The fun thing about raid to me is killing the boss which you havn't kill yet. That's the whole game to me. And alot of the time I didn't even complete all the raids in most game I tried. Maybe they just made raid too easy that everyone can faceroll them now.
I have no problem with Raids. I'm not really a PvE type of guy anymore, I enjoy the higher skill level required of PvP and the satisfaction of beating another human being, but I can respect PvE. And of course, PvE can be pretty damn hard - especially when you are learning a fight for the first time and nobody is there to guide you on the correct strategy.
Raiding is cool as shit for people that are into it. Sure, a lot of people aren't, and its easy to get burnt out from ANYTHING you do over and over again - but raiding is pretty damn cool and epic at times.
Think about those times you had when you were young, maybe playing FF7, Sonic 2, Mario 64, Castlevania, or whatever. You are on that last boss, and you keep on dying. You finally get the strategy down, and you are finally able to beat that boss. You felt great - accomplished, satisfied. Now imagine doing that in a group of 5, 10, 20, 30, 40 other people and how great it feels.
Pretty epic - especially when you had to work hard for it. But like I said, anybody can get burnt out from doing anything over and over again especially when it no longer provides satisfaction.
Ahh, MMORPG.com, where intelligently written posts somebody might not like is slammed as trolling. Anyway, I totally agree, the absense of raiding is one of the reasons I'm semi excited about this game. Raiding is a concept that needs to be thrown in the bin already.
Oh Really! Up-leveling was sacked early on in PVE. There is only down-leveling in open world.
Instant level 80 only happends in sPVP and WvW pvp.
So how is a level 20 going to accomplish anything in the 75+ zones?
Fixed that for you.
I am not sure if you really understand the reasons why they took away up-scaling.
Up-scaling destroys the game, because it allows everyone to skip content. While Down-scaling allows anyone that experiences the contents to go back and experience all the contents they might have missed or wanted to experience again.
Up-scaling decrease the life of the game, where people can focus on 1 aspect of the game, while Down-scaling opens the game to everyone for all aspects.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
I have never been big on raids. Like others have said though, I think they are making a mistake. Having raids in the game wouldn't hurt people that don't raid since there is no gear progression outside of cosmetics. It would make the pro-raid group happy, with no downside for others, and increase the longevity of PvE.
Doing away with raids would be fine if they had thought of something better to replace it with. (An actual incentive to go back and complete those areas. Doing content for contents sake is never going to cut it, in my opinion.) As it stands, all they're going to do is alienate a percentage of their playerbase that actually enjoys it. I stop playing current MMOs when it comes time to raid, but just because I do doesn't mean I am not aware of the large groups that continue to go to raids day in and day out.
Sounds like you've bought into the raiding myth. Raiding is not the huge end game of even the King of Raiding Games --- WoW. Nor is it PvP. Between the raiders and PvPers, you've got about 20% or so of the population (unless you're talking niche MMOs).
What does the other 80% do?
They socialize (the largest self-identified group when surveyed). They craft. They explore. They spend hours figuring out builds and game mechanics. They advise people in the forums and train noobs in game. They roll alts and re-experience the game. They grind cosmetics. They collect things like pets and cosmetic gear. They role-play. They design in-game, player-run events. They participate in GM run events. They play/manipulate the market (economic PvP). They may even go PvP as casuals with their PvP friends. They may even raid on some easy-mode raids with their raid friends. They do all kinds of things and they do it without being lead by the nose by a developer because they use their initiative to create the game they want to play instead of being passive and relying solely on the developers to entertain them.
This 'there is no raiding (or PvP for the PvPers) endgame so the game will fail' is a myth. These are subsets of the entire gaming population that vastly over-rate what they do and constantly spam the forums about how the game will fail if they're not catered to... All while the people who create their own fun are in game creating their own fun and are rarely heard from...
This post is factually false.
WoW's Wrath raiding had over 50% of the playerbase playing it.
It was something Blizzard was very vocal about.
WIth the LFR system in Cata, I'd imagine that number went UP.
I don't get why not putting in a game mechanic can be a 'good' thing.
Give players choices and let them choose what they want to do.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.