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Open World PVP?

13

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  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,503Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Xiaoki

     


    Originally posted by colddog04

    Originally posted by Xiaoki  

    Originally posted by Creslin321

    Originally posted by sammandar

    Originally posted by Valua Theres no open world pvp because there are no factions. GW2 has no Open World PvP. All GW2 PvP is instanced. The closest you'll get to Open World PvP is WvW, which is instanced, but very, very large.
    I agree
     WvW is like....kind of instanced.   I mean, it's instanced, but that instance persists for 2 weeks long.  So I mean...where do you draw the line between instanced and persistent?
    Raids in WoW persist for 1 week. Are the raids in WoW no longer instances then?   Whats the difference between 1 persisting for 1 week and 1 persisting for 2 weeks? Also, in WoW you can extend the lock out for a raid so they can technically persist forever. So I guess that means raids in WoW are more persistent and therefor less instanced than WvWvW. Where DO you draw the line?
    Raids are instances because there are mutiple copies of the raid that different groups are doing.

     

     

    WvW is not instanced, because there are not mutiple copies.


    But there is multiple copies.

     


    The Mists only connects 3 servers.


    GW2 will launch with 18 NA servers which means there will be 6 copies.

    Umm...

     

    You are now saying that any game with mutiple servers is fully instanced. Given that, yes, GW2 is instanced the same way every open world MMORPG is instanced (like UO for example).

  • GruntiesGrunties Worcester, MAPosts: 859Member
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by Xiaoki

     


    Originally posted by colddog04

    Originally posted by Xiaoki  

    Originally posted by Creslin321

    Originally posted by sammandar

    Originally posted by Valua Theres no open world pvp because there are no factions. GW2 has no Open World PvP. All GW2 PvP is instanced. The closest you'll get to Open World PvP is WvW, which is instanced, but very, very large.
    I agree
     WvW is like....kind of instanced.   I mean, it's instanced, but that instance persists for 2 weeks long.  So I mean...where do you draw the line between instanced and persistent?
    Raids in WoW persist for 1 week. Are the raids in WoW no longer instances then?   Whats the difference between 1 persisting for 1 week and 1 persisting for 2 weeks? Also, in WoW you can extend the lock out for a raid so they can technically persist forever. So I guess that means raids in WoW are more persistent and therefor less instanced than WvWvW. Where DO you draw the line?
    Raids are instances because there are mutiple copies of the raid that different groups are doing.

     

     

    WvW is not instanced, because there are not mutiple copies.


    But there is multiple copies.

     


    The Mists only connects 3 servers.


    GW2 will launch with 18 NA servers which means there will be 6 copies.

    so basically in ANY MMO with multiple servers everything in the game is instanced?

    Yeah this... I can see what you are saying Xia using a strict interpretation of the 'multiple copies' comment, and maybe the issue is that the scope of 'per server' wasnt defined with that. As Aerowyn was implying, servers inherently are multiple copies of the game world, but that does not make everything on the server instances.

    If im on one server, I cannot access any other WvWvW zone than the one 3 world cluster. There are no more copies to access within that server cluster.

    Waiting for: A skill-based MMO with Freedom and Consequence.
    Woe to thee, the pierce-ed.

  • XiaokiXiaoki White Pigeon, MIPosts: 2,607Member Uncommon

    image
    "Is this far enough?"

    "No, push it back farther."

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,503Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Xiaoki

    image
    "Is this far enough?"

    "No, push it back farther."

    In your case, you pushed the goal outside of the stadium, past the bar, down the sidewalk, up to the beach and into the water.

  • otacuotacu BolzanoPosts: 547Member
    Originally posted by Ramanadjinn

    its kind of funny, what with overflow servers and all.

    one could argue WvW is the only area in all of GW2 that is NOT instanced.

    LOL true

  • XiaokiXiaoki White Pigeon, MIPosts: 2,607Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by Xiaoki image "Is this far enough?" "No, push it back farther."
    In your case, you pushed the goal outside of the stadium, past the bar, down the sidewalk, up to the beach and into the water.

    "WvWvW isn't instanced because it persists for 2 weeks"
    Raids in WoW can persist forever


    "But what I meant is that anyone can join in WvWvW and there is no Overflow server for it"
    It has a player cap


    "But I meant is that there's no copies"
    There are copies, 6 for NA


    "But what I meant is that ...."


    Theres always going to be some other qualifier. Some other reason. Some other excuse.

    So, who's moving goal posts again?

  • austriacusaustriacus limaPosts: 624Member
    Originally posted by Xiaoki

     


    Originally posted by colddog04

    Originally posted by Xiaoki image "Is this far enough?" "No, push it back farther."
    In your case, you pushed the goal outside of the stadium, past the bar, down the sidewalk, up to the beach and into the water.
    "WvWvW isn't instanced because it persists for 2 weeks"
    Raids in WoW can persist forever

     


    "But what I meant is that anyone can join in WvWvW and there is no Overflow server for it"
    It has a player cap


    "But I meant is that there's no copies"
    There are copies, 6 for NA


    "But what I meant is that ...."


    Theres always going to be some other qualifier. Some other reason. Some other excuse.

    So, who's moving goal posts again?

    Are you intentionally ignoring the fact that the people saying that it isnt instanced because it is persistent and the people saying it isnt instanced because there is only 1 copy for 1 server are not the same?

    I know its hard for some people to understand but a forum isnt composed of 1 person, coldog has never said it isnt instanced because its persistent.

    You arent debating with 1 person only so keep track of who says what ok?

    So yes, you are stretching it.

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,281Member Uncommon
    WoW, RIFT, SWTOR have Wpvp. GW2 and TSW do not.
  • DerrosDerros Posts: 1,077Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bcbully
    WoW, RIFT, SWTOR have Wpvp. GW2 and TSW do not.

    they may have the ability to fight anyone in the world, that doesnt mean its meaningful in any way.  Actually I cant remember the last time I SAW an enemy in TOR, or fought someone in WoW that wasnt vastly overpowering me.

     

    I hate the world pvp thats basically just a toggle, it doesnt add to the game.......danger, what danger, I just respawn with all my gear, perfectly fine, if the guy camps, I log for a bit or play an alt. 

     

    Shadowbane, now there was some world pvp, to bad the rest of the game was awful.

     

    for real open pvp to be meaningful, and imo, good, the WHOLE game needs to be designed around that, and support it, death penalty, loot, crafting, resources, all that fun stuff.  It cant just be a switch you flip.  If a dev doesnt want to do that, keep it seperate from the pve, in its own little areas.

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,503Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Derros
    Originally posted by bcbully
    WoW, RIFT, SWTOR have Wpvp. GW2 and TSW do not.

    they may have the ability to fight anyone in the world, that doesnt mean its meaningful in any way.  Actually I cant remember the last time I SAW an enemy in TOR, or fought someone in WoW that wasnt vastly overpowering me.

     

    I hate the world pvp thats basically just a toggle, it doesnt add to the game.......danger, what danger, I just respawn with all my gear, perfectly fine, if the guy camps, I log for a bit or play an alt. 

     

    Shadowbane, now there was some world pvp, to bad the rest of the game was awful.

     

    for real open pvp to be meaningful, and imo, good, the WHOLE game needs to be designed around that, and support it, death penalty, loot, crafting, resources, all that fun stuff.  It cant just be a switch you flip.  If a dev doesnt want to do that, keep it seperate from the pve, in its own little areas.

    Agreed. It's a fun concept, but unless a game is actually designed from the ground up with this type of gameplay in mind, the systems are usually just trash in my opinion. WoW and ToR are good examples of really poorly done OWPvP in my opinion like you said. And EVE and Shadowbane are really good examples of interesting systems.

  • JuaksJuaks Cocoa, FLPosts: 274Member
    Originally posted by Ezhae
    Originally posted by xalvi
     

    The main reason why there is no open world pvp is because there are no factions, shame :(

    Nope. The reason there is no open world PvP is because the game emchanics in PvE world are built around the ideal of co-op gameplay. You don't need to group up to help each other, to gain contribution from events or xp and loot from kills. Having open world PvP in game like it would mean that any AoE you use when doing DE would have to hurt all other players, which would be pretty counter intuitive. 

    This is right. You can have OWPVP with no factions, See L2 and Tera. GW2 has no OWPVP because of the concept and mechanics the PvE is built on.

    The WvWvW is a new concept and thats why there is so much debate around it. But I think its brilliant and will be copied by other developers.

  • mearimeari SydneyPosts: 101Member
    Originally posted by Xiaoki

     


    Originally posted by colddog04

    Originally posted by Xiaoki image "Is this far enough?" "No, push it back farther."
    In your case, you pushed the goal outside of the stadium, past the bar, down the sidewalk, up to the beach and into the water.
    "WvWvW isn't instanced because it persists for 2 weeks"
    Raids in WoW can persist forever

     


    "But what I meant is that anyone can join in WvWvW and there is no Overflow server for it"
    It has a player cap


    "But I meant is that there's no copies"
    There are copies, 6 for NA


    "But what I meant is that ...."


    Theres always going to be some other qualifier. Some other reason. Some other excuse.

    So, who's moving goal posts again?

    The per server condition is implied, seriously you're just being intentionally obtuse. By your definition no mmo has open world, not even Eve, one of the greatest bloodbath of mayhem and destruction open world sandbox, because there's Tranquility and Serenity (Eve China).

  • laokokolaokoko TaipeiPosts: 2,003Member

    The player cap in WvW worries me.  I'm not sure if I should join a high or medium server etc.

     

  • Atlan99Atlan99 Calgary, ABPosts: 1,323Member
    Originally posted by laokoko

    The player cap in WvW worries me.  I'm not sure if I should join a high or medium server etc.

     

    This is my biggest concern by far for launch. I made a post about it on the official forums but it got ignored.

    What happens to people like myself that buy GW2 specifically for WvWvW? If you join the wrong server you might not be able to play the game. Especially at prime time and weekends.

    I would be willing to make a modest bet that this will be an issue on some servers at launch. There will be some qq threads complaining about not being able to participate in WvWvW.

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,503Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by laokoko

    The player cap in WvW worries me.  I'm not sure if I should join a high or medium server etc.

     

    Yeah, me too.

     

    I'm still going to pick a heavy server to account for the inevitable fallout that might come... well who knows when, but when servers do start to lighten up, I want my home server to be one of the more popular ones.

     

    But in the beginning, I expect to have to wait during prime time for quite a while. Ehh...

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by Atlan99
    Originally posted by laokoko

    The player cap in WvW worries me.  I'm not sure if I should join a high or medium server etc.

     

    This is my biggest concern by far for launch. I made a post about it on the official forums but it got ignored.

    What happens to people like myself that buy GW2 specifically for WvWvW? If you join the wrong server you might not be able to play the game. Especially at prime time and weekends.

    I would be willing to make a modest bet that this will be an issue on some servers at launch. There will be some qq threads complaining about not being able to participate in WvWvW.

    i have seen this brought up many times on the official forums and has been talked about many times by the devs... how was yours ignored? got a link to that thread?

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • Atlan99Atlan99 Calgary, ABPosts: 1,323Member
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by Atlan99
    Originally posted by laokoko

    The player cap in WvW worries me.  I'm not sure if I should join a high or medium server etc.

     

    This is my biggest concern by far for launch. I made a post about it on the official forums but it got ignored.

    What happens to people like myself that buy GW2 specifically for WvWvW? If you join the wrong server you might not be able to play the game. Especially at prime time and weekends.

    I would be willing to make a modest bet that this will be an issue on some servers at launch. There will be some qq threads complaining about not being able to participate in WvWvW.

    i have seen this brought up many times on the official forums and has been talked about many times by the devs... how was yours ignored? got a link to that thread?

    Nobody posted in the thread and quickly faded into obscurity. I obviously can't link because they wipe the forums a few days after every event.

  • laokokolaokoko TaipeiPosts: 2,003Member
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by Atlan99
    Originally posted by laokoko

    The player cap in WvW worries me.  I'm not sure if I should join a high or medium server etc.

     

    This is my biggest concern by far for launch. I made a post about it on the official forums but it got ignored.

    What happens to people like myself that buy GW2 specifically for WvWvW? If you join the wrong server you might not be able to play the game. Especially at prime time and weekends.

    I would be willing to make a modest bet that this will be an issue on some servers at launch. There will be some qq threads complaining about not being able to participate in WvWvW.

    i have seen this brought up many times on the official forums and has been talked about many times by the devs... how was yours ignored? got a link to that thread?

    So what exactly did the dev say.  A bit lazy to register on guildwars forum.

  • The_KorriganThe_Korrigan EastPosts: 2,630Member
    Originally posted by terrant
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan
    Originally posted by Valua

    Theres no open world pvp because there are no factions. GW2 has no Open World PvP. All GW2 PvP is instanced.

     

    The closest you'll get to Open World PvP is WvW, which is instanced, but very, very large.

    WvW isn't instanced. Everybody fights in the same zone, and you only have one version of that zone.

    sPvP is instanced though (just like WoW's battlegrounds).

    This, like many of the arguments about this game, is a matter of definition.

    I don't want to nitpick about definition, but I will definitely clarify things when I see posts that could lead to misunderstanding. For us MMORPG players, an instance is a copy of a zone that is not unique, like e.g. the dungeons in World of Warcraft or even in GW2, or the BGs in WoW. So when someone uses the term "instance" to describe World vs World, it could mislead some people who will thing it's just another BG like area without any persistance, which is completely wrong. There's only one version of the four WvW areas, and everybody plays there. If anything, the WvW areas are part of the world just as much as any other world area.

    If you wonder why I don't answer your posts, it's most likely because you are on my block list - so don't waste your time.

    image

  • AmegashieAmegashie naPosts: 282Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by laokoko

    The player cap in WvW worries me.  I'm not sure if I should join a high or medium server etc.

     

     

    It's pretty obvious by now the game will be a major success, but there probably won't be as many 365/7/24 players as in some other MMOs. Most people will play off and on, so after the initial rush getting into WvW shouldn't be much of a problem even on  most larger servers.

     

    There'll probably develop 1 or 2 super servers per area/language and those will be packed all the time. Best to avoid those, unfortunately there is no way to tell which ones that'll be though at this point.

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 18,030Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Creslin321

    No open-world PvP as games like WoW have it...but it does have world versus world, which offers a pretty open PvP experience.

    http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/World_versus_World

    I am however willing to bet money on that Wow will include something similar to WvWvW PvP soon in the future...

  • sammandarsammandar San Antonio, TXPosts: 523Member
    Originally posted by Loke666
    Originally posted by Creslin321

    No open-world PvP as games like WoW have it...but it does have world versus world, which offers a pretty open PvP experience.

    http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/World_versus_World

    I am however willing to bet money on that Wow will include something similar to WvWvW PvP soon in the future...

    haha, most definitely! I would not be surprised if their devs are already working on the mechanics for a wvw in WOW.

  • ShadanwolfShadanwolf Posts: 2,114Member Uncommon
    OP.....I don't care for the idea...at all.
  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loke666
    Originally posted by Creslin321

    No open-world PvP as games like WoW have it...but it does have world versus world, which offers a pretty open PvP experience.

    http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/World_versus_World

    I am however willing to bet money on that Wow will include something similar to WvWvW PvP soon in the future...

    They already did something like that when WAR came out. They also took the polymock mechanic as well, though to be fair, they're both pretty much pokemon. If there's three things you can count on from Blizzard (even after D3) it's polish, more polish, and lots of shamelessly stolen features from other games.

  • LucioonLucioon Palm Harbor, FLPosts: 814Member Uncommon

    I think where most of the arguments comes from is the definitions of those terms.

    Why is everyone stuck with the old terms anyways?

    GW2 invented their own terms, its called WvWvW PVP, its neither Open world pvp, nor instanced pvp, its called WvWvW pvp something new and something familiar.

    Your questions of whether or not its instanced or zoned, lets just call GW2's WvWvW pvp as an 2 week pvp event within an 4 map area zone instance.

    See all problems solved!!

     

    Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.

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