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Windows 7 vs Windows 8

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  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,770Member Uncommon

    I'm not entirely sure what to think.

    Microsoft isn't really dumb enough to try to force everyone to use a touch-based tablet UI when they have a desktop that can do so much more.  Are they?

    I kind of wonder if they're just trying to get everyone to try out the interface formerly known as Metro before launch, but then will relent and let you have the normal interface that everyone with a desktop wants when it finally launches.  That doesn't entirely make sense either, though; why would they try to get everyone to try a tablet UI on desktops, and not on tablets?  Well, other than the fact that there are very few Windows tablets out yet, and most of the ones that do exist are gimpy Atom-based toys that no one buys.

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by Quizzical

    I'm not entirely sure what to think.

    Microsoft isn't really dumb enough to try to force everyone to use a touch-based tablet UI when they have a desktop that can do so much more.  Are they?

    I kind of wonder if they're just trying to get everyone to try out the interface formerly known as Metro before launch, but then will relent and let you have the normal interface that everyone with a desktop wants when it finally launches.  That doesn't entirely make sense either, though; why would they try to get everyone to try a tablet UI on desktops, and not on tablets?  Well, other than the fact that there are very few Windows tablets out yet, and most of the ones that do exist are gimpy Atom-based toys that no one buys.

    metro comes up when you launch windows 8 but you can still click on the desktop icon and go into the standard desktop ui. So you can use either one.. you can also hit the windows key and it will cycle from metro ui to desktop mode ui

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • proxy42086proxy42086 Nashville, TNPosts: 29Member
    windows 8 is intended to integrate pcs with tablets and phones and promote cloud system.  windows 8was intended for the new touch screen pcs
  • prpshrtprpshrt Clarksville, MDPosts: 258Member

    It's nothing more than a windows vista with touch capability. I'll leave it at that. Windows 7 is the new xp imo

  • FalcomithFalcomith Hastings, FLPosts: 800Member
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by Quizzical

    I'm not entirely sure what to think.

    Microsoft isn't really dumb enough to try to force everyone to use a touch-based tablet UI when they have a desktop that can do so much more.  Are they?

    I kind of wonder if they're just trying to get everyone to try out the interface formerly known as Metro before launch, but then will relent and let you have the normal interface that everyone with a desktop wants when it finally launches.  That doesn't entirely make sense either, though; why would they try to get everyone to try a tablet UI on desktops, and not on tablets?  Well, other than the fact that there are very few Windows tablets out yet, and most of the ones that do exist are gimpy Atom-based toys that no one buys.

    metro comes up when you launch windows 8 but you can still click on the desktop icon and go into the standard desktop ui. So you can use either one.. you can also hit the windows key and it will cycle from metro ui to desktop mode ui

    More like desktop wallpaper. There is no Start bar/taskbar at the bottom. Its mainly so you can put a bunch of shortcuts for easier access. Unless you found a way to enable it, but the only "start" takes you from the desktop back to the metro screen.

  • GiddianGiddian Livonia, MIPosts: 415Member
    Windows 8 is Windows 7 with a Different Menu system.

    image

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,770Member Uncommon

    Microsoft justified taking away the start button by saying that people don't use it very often.  But that doesn't justify it.  You put the programs you use the most on the taskbar, but when you want to go launch a program that you don't use very often, you use the start button to find it.  That it doesn't get used very often hardly means that it doesn't need to be there.

    Most of the time that a computer accesses memory, it gets something either out some level of processor cache or else system memory.  Only infrequently (as a percentage of times it tries to grab data) does it have to grab something from virtual memory.  But that hardly makes virtual memory unnecessary.  It needs to be there precisely as a way to handle the outlier cases--just like the start button.  You'd think that Microsoft of all companies ought to know this.

  • wrightstufwrightstuf Carlsbad, CAPosts: 655Member Uncommon

     

    if you've got the hard drive space, you can always create a partition that will keep win 8 and the programs you want to try with it separate from win 7 with a dual boot setup. its very easy to do, and you can wipe it at any time and delete the partition. thats how i previewed win 8.

    now, my thoughts...win 8 sucks. it may be fine for a smartphone or tablet, but its total crap for a pc. win 7 works so well, its scary. why on earth would you want to use any other OS?

    i'll also predict that win 8 will flop hard for the pc. worse than vista even...maybe on par with Win ME or windows bob.

  • FadedbombFadedbomb Aiken, SCPosts: 2,081Member

    Windows8 is, as someone else correctly mentioned, is the 2012-Vista. No one uses, as far as I'm aware, touchscreen monitors, and there's been no market push towards touchscreen monitors to even go in this direction.

     

    I've had the unfortunate task of setting up a dev environment with visual studios 2010 on Windows8 to test for our company if it is worth upgrading to.

     

    Long story short, our company of 2500 some odd employees will be staying with Windows7 professional for QUITE some time, or until Windows9 releases and is not a wholesum pile of crap. Yes, you can "disable" that 'metro' aka 'modern' view & use a semi-functional desktop like windows7, but there are absolutely ZERO upgraded benefits from windows7 if not some detriments.

     

    So I'm not entirely sure why anyone is even considering Win8 for a desktop PC as it is clearly meant for mobile application use.

    The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
    Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.

  • GalthonGalthon Concord, NHPosts: 48Member Uncommon

    I've been running Win8x64 for a few months. It has some niceties over 7, but I wouldn't run out and upgrade to it. Performance wise, I notice very little difference between 7 and 8, but I'm not pushing any envelopes hardware-wise. I personally don't much care for the "Modern" menu or the ribbon interface in Explorer, but they aren't killer issues either.

  • NightCloakNightCloak Barrington, ILPosts: 450Member
    Originally posted by Fadedbomb

    Windows8 is, as someone else correctly mentioned, is the 2012-Vista. No one uses, as far as I'm aware, touchscreen monitors, and there's been no market push towards touchscreen monitors to even go in this direction.

     

    I've had the unfortunate task of setting up a dev environment with visual studios 2010 on Windows8 to test for our company if it is worth upgrading to.

     

    Long story short, our company of 2500 some odd employees will be staying with Windows7 professional for QUITE some time, or until Windows9 releases and is not a wholesum pile of crap. Yes, you can "disable" that 'metro' aka 'modern' view & use a semi-functional desktop like windows7, but there are absolutely ZERO upgraded benefits from windows7 if not some detriments.

     

    So I'm not entirely sure why anyone is even considering Win8 for a desktop PC as it is clearly meant for mobile application use.

    This is what I'm not understanding. A huge part of the market is business use. It almost seems that every other release is a consumer vs business target.

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member
    Windows 8 is just a fundamentally flawed idea. Touch screens and mouse keyboard interfaces is so different and trying to cater to both will just leave one, or both, lacking. Micro$oft is again showing that their out of touch and this attempt is just a desperate grab for the explosing smartphone market. Too bad desktop users will suffer because of it.
  • keirionkeirion seattle, WAPosts: 51Member Uncommon

    I actually hurried to buy my new laptop early to keep from getting stuck with Windows 8.

    Between personal experience and the response from developers, as I see it the only OS I could get that would be worse than Win 8 would be getting a Mac (in my opinion, macs have the worst ui ever created for an os. I'd rather run windows 95).

  • AethaerynAethaeryn Kitchener, ONPosts: 1,971Member Uncommon
    Download the preview and try it.  I hated it.   It is designed for touchscreens to the point that it actually makes it worse to use with a mouse.  Also, have you tried to find a touchscreen monitor that is not part of a built in system - I have with no luck.  The only thing I see Windows 8 bringing is integration for Windows on phones, XBox etc.  This is good for Microsoft.  Also, it might get people to make stand alone touch screen monitors. . . so I can have lots of fun with Blackshark.

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  • mgilbrtsnmgilbrtsn belleville, ILPosts: 1,701Member Uncommon
    99% of us, probably don't really know at this point.  It's like any other software package that comes out (MMOs, can you say here) needs to get that first few months of massive feedback and patches before it all settles. 

    Concentrate on enjoying yourself, and not on why I shouldn't enjoy myself.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,770Member Uncommon

    The real question is, why get Windows 8 over Windows 7?  For a desktop or laptop, the only advantage I'm aware of is that Windows 8 handles AMD's Bulldozer and Piledriver CPUs better than Windows 7, as Windows 7's thread scheduler wasn't written with the newer architecture in mind.

    With Windows 7, I was aware at launch of quite a few advantages over Vista.  Dramatically better handling of multicore processors, knowing what to do with SSDs, a backup utility that is actually usable, and prefetching that is far less aggressive when the computer is actually in use were all a big deal.  What does Windows 8 offer that 7 doesn't?  I mean, that is actually worth having, unlike Metro.

  • terrantterrant Virginia Beach, VAPosts: 1,683Member
    Been playing with the demo build..8 is very clearly designed for smartphones and tablets first, traditional PCs second. It's not bad, and it does seem a little easier on the resources, but there's certain functions that are clunky without a tocuh screen (oh, and you have to make a shortcut to shut down your PC, lolz)
  • FalcomithFalcomith Hastings, FLPosts: 800Member
    Originally posted by terrant
    Been playing with the demo build..8 is very clearly designed for smartphones and tablets first, traditional PCs second. It's not bad, and it does seem a little easier on the resources, but there's certain functions that are clunky without a tocuh screen (oh, and you have to make a shortcut to shut down your PC, lolz)
    The shutdown button is on the password screen. Simply click your name on the metro screen, choose log off. It then brings you to the log in screen. There is a button, similar to a power icon. Thats your shutdown in windows 8

    Funny that Win 8 using the internet explorer browser doesnt like mmopg.com text box when quoting. It actually put the text I typed in a box like I was quoting it. However it doesnt appear its doing so when editing this post.

  • terrantterrant Virginia Beach, VAPosts: 1,683Member
    Originally posted by Falcomith
    Originally posted by terrant
    Been playing with the demo build..8 is very clearly designed for smartphones and tablets first, traditional PCs second. It's not bad, and it does seem a little easier on the resources, but there's certain functions that are clunky without a tocuh screen (oh, and you have to make a shortcut to shut down your PC, lolz)
    The shutdown button is on the password screen. Simply click your name on the metro screen, choose log off. It then brings you to the log in screen. There is a button, similar to a power icon. Thats your shutdown in windows 8

    Funny that Win 8 using the internet explorer browser doesnt like mmopg.com text box when quoting. It actually put the text I typed in a box like I was quoting it. However it doesnt appear its doing so when editing this post.

    Which is just as clunky. It's a step backwards. Wanted to shut down in Windwos? Start-shut down. 

     

    Now it's Start, click on  picture, click on log off, wait for windows to log off, click shut down.

     

     

  • FalcomithFalcomith Hastings, FLPosts: 800Member
    Originally posted by terrant
    Originally posted by Falcomith
    Originally posted by terrant
    Been playing with the demo build..8 is very clearly designed for smartphones and tablets first, traditional PCs second. It's not bad, and it does seem a little easier on the resources, but there's certain functions that are clunky without a tocuh screen (oh, and you have to make a shortcut to shut down your PC, lolz)
    The shutdown button is on the password screen. Simply click your name on the metro screen, choose log off. It then brings you to the log in screen. There is a button, similar to a power icon. Thats your shutdown in windows 8

    Funny that Win 8 using the internet explorer browser doesnt like mmopg.com text box when quoting. It actually put the text I typed in a box like I was quoting it. However it doesnt appear its doing so when editing this post.

    Which is just as clunky. It's a step backwards. Wanted to shut down in Windwos? Start-shut down. 

     

    Now it's Start, click on  picture, click on log off, wait for windows to log off, click shut down.

     

     

    Found a faster way just a minute ago. Mouse over the bottom right corner of screen. Side bar slides out. Click "Settings". There is a power button inside.

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by Falcomith
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by Quizzical

    I'm not entirely sure what to think.

    Microsoft isn't really dumb enough to try to force everyone to use a touch-based tablet UI when they have a desktop that can do so much more.  Are they?

    I kind of wonder if they're just trying to get everyone to try out the interface formerly known as Metro before launch, but then will relent and let you have the normal interface that everyone with a desktop wants when it finally launches.  That doesn't entirely make sense either, though; why would they try to get everyone to try a tablet UI on desktops, and not on tablets?  Well, other than the fact that there are very few Windows tablets out yet, and most of the ones that do exist are gimpy Atom-based toys that no one buys.

    metro comes up when you launch windows 8 but you can still click on the desktop icon and go into the standard desktop ui. So you can use either one.. you can also hit the windows key and it will cycle from metro ui to desktop mode ui

    More like desktop wallpaper. There is no Start bar/taskbar at the bottom. Its mainly so you can put a bunch of shortcuts for easier access. Unless you found a way to enable it, but the only "start" takes you from the desktop back to the metro screen.

    by default yes there is no start menu but start menu customizers work fine like start8 and classic shell.. yes it does suck you need to use a third party app to have one but you can have one

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • RidelynnRidelynn Fresno, CAPosts: 4,171Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Quizzical
    The real question is, why get Windows 8 over Windows 7?  For a desktop or laptop, the only advantage I'm aware of is that Windows 8 handles AMD's Bulldozer and Piledriver CPUs better than Windows 7, as Windows 7's thread scheduler wasn't written with the newer architecture in mind.With Windows 7, I was aware at launch of quite a few advantages over Vista.  Dramatically better handling of multicore processors, knowing what to do with SSDs, a backup utility that is actually usable, and prefetching that is far less aggressive when the computer is actually in use were all a big deal.  What does Windows 8 offer that 7 doesn't?  I mean, that is actually worth having, unlike Metro.

    Win8 brings very little to the table under the hood. The biggest change was support for ARM CPU's - which desktops don't run. It's a big deal for the Microsoft folks, as it takes a good deal of work to support a change in CPU architectures, but for people who still use x86/x64 - a total non-event.

    Win8 supports signed programs. Drivers have been signed since Vista, but now Win8 expands that to all programs as a security feature. You can turn off the ability to run programs that aren't digitally signed. Win8 also supports UEFI SecureBoot - which takes the concept of signed drivers and applications and goes a step farther - the computer won't boot unless it has a signed kernel, stopping certain types of viruses. Neither of these mean a lot to gamers, or really add anything to an enthusiast - just more security safety nets for us to click our way through and approve.

    Win8 has "FastBoot" technology - which for an SSD doesn't offer a whole lot, but presumably on a standard HD and certain laptops which have the hardware capability, can dramatically speed up cold boot times (I hear on hardware-enabled laptops it's near-instant, on desktops it can get sub-30 seconds which isn't bad for a standard hard drive). It's probably the only marginally performance-related enhancement of the new version.

    Internet Explorer 10, for everyone who doesn't use Firefox/Chrome. Not really a game changer...

    Windows To Go is a new way to carry around your OS, for people who use a lot of different machines. It's OS-level support for running off a thumb drive (there have been ways to do this for a while now, although most less than optimal - supposedly with OS support it will be a lot faster/easier to accomplish).

    There will be DirectX 11.1 support - not a huge deal.

    And there will be a Microsoft Online Store, which lets you buy programs (not just from Microsoft) - think Steam or Origin, but for all kinds of programs, not just games. Again, not a huge deal, as we already have Steam/Origin/Stardock/Microsoft Online store /etc. But this time, Microsoft will get the distribution cut, so that presumably makes it a major feature.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,770Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ridelynn

     


    Originally posted by Quizzical
    The real question is, why get Windows 8 over Windows 7?  For a desktop or laptop, the only advantage I'm aware of is that Windows 8 handles AMD's Bulldozer and Piledriver CPUs better than Windows 7, as Windows 7's thread scheduler wasn't written with the newer architecture in mind.

     

    With Windows 7, I was aware at launch of quite a few advantages over Vista.  Dramatically better handling of multicore processors, knowing what to do with SSDs, a backup utility that is actually usable, and prefetching that is far less aggressive when the computer is actually in use were all a big deal.  What does Windows 8 offer that 7 doesn't?  I mean, that is actually worth having, unlike Metro.


     

    Win8 brings very little to the table under the hood. The biggest change was support for ARM CPU's - which desktops don't run. It's a big deal for the Microsoft folks, as it takes a good deal of work to support a change in CPU architectures, but for people who still use x86/x64 - a total non-event.

    Win8 supports signed programs. Drivers have been signed since Vista, but now Win8 expands that to all programs as a security feature. You can turn off the ability to run programs that aren't digitally signed. Win8 also supports UEFI SecureBoot - which takes the concept of signed drivers and applications and goes a step farther - the computer won't boot unless it has a signed kernel, stopping certain types of viruses. Neither of these mean a lot to gamers, or really add anything to an enthusiast - just more security safety nets for us to click our way through and approve.

    Win8 has "FastBoot" technology - which for an SSD doesn't offer a whole lot, but presumably on a standard HD and certain laptops which have the hardware capability, can dramatically speed up cold boot times (I hear on hardware-enabled laptops it's near-instant, on desktops it can get sub-30 seconds which isn't bad for a standard hard drive). It's probably the only marginally performance-related enhancement of the new version.

    Internet Explorer 10, for everyone who doesn't use Firefox/Chrome. Not really a game changer...

    Windows To Go is a new way to carry around your OS, for people who use a lot of different machines. It's OS-level support for running off a thumb drive (there have been ways to do this for a while now, although most less than optimal - supposedly with OS support it will be a lot faster/easier to accomplish).

    There will be DirectX 11.1 support - not a huge deal.

    And there will be a Microsoft Online Store, which lets you buy programs (not just from Microsoft) - think Steam or Origin, but for all kinds of programs, not just games. Again, not a huge deal, as we already have Steam/Origin/Stardock/Microsoft Online store /etc. But this time, Microsoft will get the distribution cut, so that presumably makes it a major feature.

    Thanks for the summary.  Sounds like a bunch of niche features.

    And how many of them will be ported back to Windows 7, anyway?  If IE10 doesn't, then that would be like telling everyone who still uses IE but isn't upgrading to Windows 8 immediately that they should switch browsers.  Unless, of course, they're still using IE6.

    If DX11 was a big deal and got ported back to Vista, I'd somewhat expect DX 11.1 to be available for Windows 7 and Vista, too.  If not, it's dead on arrival.

  • IchmenIchmen Winnipeg, MBPosts: 1,228Member

    this is a pretty stupid question im sure.... but umm who the fk plays video games with a touch screen @_@"; last time i checked not many games cerca 1990-2012 had touch screen support.... unless it was a smart phone game.......

    sooooo why the fk would anyone buy win8 for gaming least of all right out of the box without the several months/years of patching???

     

    as far as i am aware the best 2 windows right now  are Win XP and Win 7.. no reason to upgrade from those :/

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  • AvsRock21AvsRock21 Denver, COPosts: 256Member
    There is a regular desktop available in Windows 8. It's not only the tiles... The problem is, the regular desktop version of Windows 8 looks the same as Windows 7. For gaming I see no real benefits from Windows 8. I haven't heard anything about DirectX 12 being available on Windows 8 only, so lets hope we will get it on Windows 7 too.
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