Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

Guild Wars 2 Needs a more robust Tutorial (for Novices)

Kyus_HoBKyus_HoB LondonPosts: 185Member

Intro

Having played pretty much all the available beta weekends and stress tests as well as a number of mmo's since ultima online I definately do not need a tutorial system forced into my face. 

The thing is a lot of people who have been kept out of the genre by new released requiring subs and credit cards will.

My partner who has tried a 2 mmo's before (WoW and Aion) (I dropped the bomb recommending Aion huge mistake) has picked up Guild Wars 2 and whilst she enjoys the art style, music and concept she has struggled with the increased need for mobility in combat. 

She enjoyed WoW and found it incredibly intuative, Its combat system and difficulty level are definately less demanding but the pacing of the initial zones of WoW are a lot slower too and this helps with not having to deliver such a robust tutorial.

My Solution

I am under the belief that the game would benefit hugely from a togglable extended tutorial that the game actively asks you if you'd like to view when you make your first character. 

The current hints are well written but do not convey enough through text alone to help new players particularly with mobility and the interface. 

I would suggest that a more robust video tutorial be made available, with either video's or step through animations that explain elements of movement and the input devices available (Keyboard movement, Keyboard and mouse movement, Dual mouse button movement and how they relate to the camera).

the second point where I felt the need for more instruction for a novice is at the point of exiting your tutorial. When you first enter the world you need a little more direction in regards too interface and option menu's. again a video explaining these would be great. A great way to step this through would be through the purchasing of a harvesting tool and showing how it can be equipped. 

TL;DR

The Games current Hints/Tips Tutorial is not robust enough for a true novice. Whilst its ambitious to offer a full tutorial for launch Arena Net should consider working on one to be included ASAP that includes animated or movie content that better illustrates how to use input devices (keyboard/mouse) to move and better illustrates the UI. 

Side Note:  I found personally that Queensdale was a much better starting zone than say the Sylvari one for new players it felt more userfriendly with the heart event layout in the immediate vacinity of where you zone in following the tutorial.

«13

Comments

  • MeowheadMeowhead New Carlisle, INPosts: 3,716Member

    As long as it's optional, more tutorial wouldn't be the world's worst idea.

    Especially since it's obvious GW2 is trying to catch the interest of people who aren't heavily into MMORPGs as well as MMORPG fans, good to assume people don't know anything about playing.

    Has to be optional though, otherwise super annoying. :)  ... and by optional, that includes not having an achievement for listening to the tutorial.  I hate when games think they should give titles or achievements that are tutorial only.  Like their tutorial is so great you should totally immerse yourself in it.

  • C1d0sC1d0s Marshall, TXPosts: 238Member

    One-hundred percent agree. Regardless of your opinion on the game, World of Warcraft's tutorial is very nice: it explains everything from the most common methods of walking, combat, and itemization to the functions of UI and their retrospective buttons. 

    I don't see why ANet wouldn't be working on this, seeing how they are clearly trying to appeal a market of less-than-savvy MMO players. 

    image
  • Kyus_HoBKyus_HoB LondonPosts: 185Member
    Originally posted by Meowhead

    As long as it's optional, more tutorial wouldn't be the world's worst idea.

    Especially since it's obvious GW2 is trying to catch the interest of people who aren't heavily into MMORPGs as well as MMORPG fans, good to assume people don't know anything about playing.

    Has to be optional though, otherwise super annoying. :)  ... and by optional, that includes not having an achievement for listening to the tutorial.  I hate when games think they should give titles or achievements that are tutorial only.  Like their tutorial is so great you should totally immerse yourself in it.

    Definately has to be optional and togglable in the option menu. So you get a splash screen when you first enter the world. Would you like to display an extended tutorial yes no followed by: are you sure you'd like to cancel this if you would like to view this at a later date then it can be enabled from the option menu. 

    On your last point I think Guild Wars 2 gives you an achievement for viewing all the hints and tips... I'm not sure if you have to view them all or just encounter everything that grants them.

  • MikeJezZMikeJezZ HillerødPosts: 1,197Member
    I never figured how to join sPvP as a group or the gathering professions

    Playing ATM: Elder Scrolls Online, Diablo 3
    MMO's shelted: Check my mmorpg profile
    KICKSTARTED: Camelot Unchained. (250 USD)

  • The_KorriganThe_Korrigan EastPosts: 2,630Member
    Originally posted by MikeJezZ
    I never figured how to join sPvP as a group or the gathering professions

    Really? For gathering, just buy the tools at a merchant, and there you go. Trying to gather without the tools will get our a help message anyway.

    Have a look at this otherwise: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFU_b4e2bxU

    If you wonder why I don't answer your posts, it's most likely because you are on my block list - so don't waste your time.

    image

  • meddyckmeddyck Athens, GAPosts: 1,140Member Uncommon
    I agree. There should be a longer, optional tutorial that goes into more detail about most game systems and an even longer, more detailed full manual on the guildwars2.com web site.

    Camelot Unchained Backer
    DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

  • doragon86doragon86 Boston, MAPosts: 589Member
    Originally posted by MikeJezZ
    I never figured how to join sPvP as a group or the gathering professions

    I don't believe they added an option to join sPvP as a group yet. 

    "For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast,
    And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed:
    And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill,
    And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!"
    ~Lord George Gordon Byron

  • Kyus_HoBKyus_HoB LondonPosts: 185Member
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan
    Originally posted by MikeJezZ
    I never figured how to join sPvP as a group or the gathering professions

    Really? For gathering, just buy the tools at a merchant, and there you go. Trying to gather without the tools will get our a help message anyway.

    Have a look at this otherwise: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFU_b4e2bxU

    I really like Engimius's video's his new one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUKWeaXZeOY on mobility is very close to what I'm referring too in terms of mobility, but I feel he's entering at a level where an FPS player who has never played an mmo could use the advice but a total novice would struggle. 

    Should we have another stress test I think I might make a series of video's for absolute novices with no experience of video gaming in 3d environments.

    The gathering thing is really important, I can see how easy it would be for people to initially miss it and its such a good source of early game xp and of course mats/gold

  • ariboersmaariboersma Yankton, SDPosts: 1,802Member
    Originally posted by C1d0s

    One-hundred percent agree. Regardless of your opinion on the game, World of Warcraft's tutorial is very nice: it explains everything from the most common methods of walking, combat, and itemization to the functions of UI and their retrospective buttons. 

    I don't see why ANet wouldn't be working on this, seeing how they are clearly trying to appeal a market of less-than-savvy MMO players. 

    WoW didnt have one until recently... but I will agree they should have one.. just dont say WoW's is so good when it took them like 5 yrs to have any sort of tutorial. Also lets hope if they make something its nothing like TSW's horrid, bland, uninformative travesty of a tutorial. I think the big thing is that GW2 is just so new and different.. I have a cpl guildies who just will not watch vids as they feel it might ruin the game for them.. so I will be there in vent for them with stuff to watch THEN.. because I know it will be needed. One of the top of my list to offer is Enigmius' crafting series.

    image

  • JustsomenoobJustsomenoob lexington, KYPosts: 871Member

    This would be a good idea, anything really.

     

    The game actually has quite a lot of nuances really.  We understand it all because we've been playing lots of MMOs and have been researching the game.    If someone wasn't really experienced with MMOs and didn't know anything about the game other than a friend told them it was good, I could see them really struggling.

     

     

  • AmjocoAmjoco Layton, UTPosts: 4,778Member Uncommon
    Meh. WoW tutorial. Orc starting area 1. Kill those pigs 2. Kill those scorpions. Ok you are trained. Oh btw, over 12 million people learned the ropes of mmorpgs this way. 

    Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  • Kyus_HoBKyus_HoB LondonPosts: 185Member
    Originally posted by Amjoco
    Meh. WoW tutorial. Orc starting area 1. Kill those pigs 2. Kill those scorpions. Ok you are trained. Oh btw, over 12 million people learned the ropes of mmorpgs this way. 

    Yeah this is kind of what I'm alluding to and the difference and challenge that GW2 faces.

    When you come out of the starting instance you are faced with a lot less direction (definately a good thing) the scout you first encounter goes someway to help but the hints and tips do not go far enough to help out new players. I'm definately hoping for another stress test so I can make a very very dumbed down guide.

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by Kyus_HoB

     

    I really like Engimius's video's his new one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUKWeaXZeOY on mobility is very close to what I'm referring too in terms of mobility, but I feel he's entering at a level where an FPS player who has never played an mmo could use the advice but a total novice would struggle. 

    Should we have another stress test I think I might make a series of video's for absolute novices with no experience of video gaming in 3d environments.

    The gathering thing is really important, I can see how easy it would be for people to initially miss it and its such a good source of early game xp and of course mats/gold

    nice one! added to my video collection under combat.. player made tutorials are generally always better than anything the devs put together.. I don't care either way but as long as there are helpful gamers out their like you can see in my sig I don't see the need for an ingame tutorial:)

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • ariboersmaariboersma Yankton, SDPosts: 1,802Member
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by Kyus_HoB

     

    I really like Engimius's video's his new one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUKWeaXZeOY on mobility is very close to what I'm referring too in terms of mobility, but I feel he's entering at a level where an FPS player who has never played an mmo could use the advice but a total novice would struggle. 

    Should we have another stress test I think I might make a series of video's for absolute novices with no experience of video gaming in 3d environments.

    The gathering thing is really important, I can see how easy it would be for people to initially miss it and its such a good source of early game xp and of course mats/gold

    nice one! added to my video collection under combat.. player made tutorials are generally always better than anything the devs put together.. I don't care either way but as long as there are helpful gamers out their like you can see in my sig I don't see the need for an ingame tutorial:)

    oh damn I thought you had this one, yea its great.. sent it to my mom last night and I think it finally got through to her what I have been trying to explain for 2 yrs lol

    image

  • clumsytoes44clumsytoes44 portland, ORPosts: 463Member
    This has too be the best legitimate complaint I've seen for GW2. It really could use a better tutorial for new player's, esp for the downed state, and being mobile in combat.
  • MosesZDMosesZD Kirkwood, MOPosts: 1,383Member
    Originally posted by Meowhead

    As long as it's optional, more tutorial wouldn't be the world's worst idea.

    Especially since it's obvious GW2 is trying to catch the interest of people who aren't heavily into MMORPGs as well as MMORPG fans, good to assume people don't know anything about playing.

    Has to be optional though, otherwise super annoying. :)  ... and by optional, that includes not having an achievement for listening to the tutorial.  I hate when games think they should give titles or achievements that are tutorial only.  Like their tutorial is so great you should totally immerse yourself in it.

     

    Yeah.   I'd do them once just to make sure I didn't miss something.  But I'd rather have them optional so I didn't have to do them every character.

  • OziiusOziius Baltimore, MDPosts: 1,388Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan
    Originally posted by MikeJezZ
    I never figured how to join sPvP as a group or the gathering professions

    Really? For gathering, just buy the tools at a merchant, and there you go. Trying to gather without the tools will get our a help message anyway.

    Have a look at this otherwise: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFU_b4e2bxU

    True but it's not that apparent. I remember when playing in the beta weekend asking around about crafting and not getting many responses. Even after you buy the tools and gather, then what? I mean... I know now, but it wasn't readily apparent when I was playing. 

  • MosesZDMosesZD Kirkwood, MOPosts: 1,383Member
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by Kyus_HoB

     

    I really like Engimius's video's his new one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUKWeaXZeOY on mobility is very close to what I'm referring too in terms of mobility, but I feel he's entering at a level where an FPS player who has never played an mmo could use the advice but a total novice would struggle. 

    Should we have another stress test I think I might make a series of video's for absolute novices with no experience of video gaming in 3d environments.

    The gathering thing is really important, I can see how easy it would be for people to initially miss it and its such a good source of early game xp and of course mats/gold

    nice one! added to my video collection under combat.. player made tutorials are generally always better than anything the devs put together.. I don't care either way but as long as there are helpful gamers out their like you can see in my sig I don't see the need for an ingame tutorial:)

     

    All of his videos on GW2 have been excellent.   I rarely subscribe to anyone on YouTube, but he's one of two or three for this game.

  • MahavishnuMahavishnu BerlinPosts: 336Member

    I remember how it was, when you just played an MMO to learn it. You asked other players for hints and help, you tried a lot of things and sometimes little things like finding a crafting-teacher, or another useful feature in the options-menu were already little discoveries.

    GW2 is not tricky, just play the game and enjoy, lvl 1-10 is the actual tutorial.

     

    The combat it fine. It was far too easy in WoW - and WoW has been criticized for that fact all the time by many players. If you want  challenging combat against dangerous opponents, you will fail from time to time and die. That is the essence of challenge: you fail, you get angry, you fail again, you ask yoursfelf why, you try it differently, you ask for help and in the end you succeed.

    Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need.

  • MosesZDMosesZD Kirkwood, MOPosts: 1,383Member
    Originally posted by Praetalus
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan
    Originally posted by MikeJezZ
    I never figured how to join sPvP as a group or the gathering professions

    Really? For gathering, just buy the tools at a merchant, and there you go. Trying to gather without the tools will get our a help message anyway.

    Have a look at this otherwise: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFU_b4e2bxU

    True but it's not that apparent. I remember when playing in the beta weekend asking around about crafting and not getting many responses. Even after you buy the tools and gather, then what? I mean... I know now, but it wasn't readily apparent when I was playing. 

     

    In GW1 I think they stayed in your inventory.   Or I was thinking they stayed in your inventory.  I don't actually remember exactly what i was thinking at the moment.  But anyway, it took me a bit to figure out what I was doing wrong because I couldn't remember the convention.   You know, some games have slots for gather tools.  With other games you have equip it while un-equiping your weapons.   Other games you just keep the tools in the inventory.    

     

    I, incorrectly, went with Option 3.    Then, to make it worse, I kept thinking the nodes were broken like so many of them in the previous MMO I played.   Something that is normal in beta-level MMOs.     

     

    It was a derp-moment when I saw the gathering tools slots on the hero panel and definitely had a laugh at myself for missing something so obvious.   So I can really see where you're coming from.    Even with all that experience in this area, I just flat-out got it wrong and leaped to the wrong conclusions with the data I had.

     

     

  • MosesZDMosesZD Kirkwood, MOPosts: 1,383Member
    Originally posted by Mahavishnu

    I remember how it was, when you just played an MMO to learn it. You asked other players for hints and help, you tried a lot of things and sometimes little things like finding a crafting-teacher, or another useful feature in the options-menu were already little discoveries.

    GW2 is not tricky, just play the game and enjoy, lvl 1-10 is the actual tutorial.

     

    The combat it fine. It was far too easy in WoW - and WoW has been criticized for that fact all the time by many players. If you want  challenging combat against dangerous opponents, you will fail from time to time and die. That is the essence of challenge: you fail, you get angry, you fail again, you ask yoursfelf why, you try it differently, you ask for help and in the end you succeed.

     

    I actually really like the fact that I die sometimes.   It pushes me to get better.  And when I succeed against something tough, I actually get a feeling of accomplishment.  Unilke faceroll MMOs where everybody wins...

  • DJJazzyDJJazzy louisville, COPosts: 2,053Member
    I agree that a better tutorial should be implemented, as long as it is optional as others have said. Just make sure it is visible the first time you play so new players know where to go or what to use.
  • RequiamerRequiamer ???Posts: 2,034Member

    They have a huge help "book" (use esc key then help button if i'm not mistaken) containing many aspects of the game i just looked at it quickly because i don't need it that much, but it seamed very complete.

     

    But ye they can probably make a noob proof tutorail for those that pretty much play games for the first time or almost, it's not that needed though and can probably wait post launch.

  • Kyus_HoBKyus_HoB LondonPosts: 185Member

     

    Originally posted by Mahavishnu

    I remember how it was, when you just played an MMO to learn it. You asked other players for hints and help, you tried a lot of things and sometimes little things like finding a crafting-teacher, or another useful feature in the options-menu were already little discoveries.

    GW2 is not tricky, just play the game and enjoy, lvl 1-10 is the actual tutorial.

     

    The combat it fine. It was far too easy in WoW - and WoW has been criticized for that fact all the time by many players. If you want  challenging combat against dangerous opponents, you will fail from time to time and die. That is the essence of challenge: you fail, you get angry, you fail again, you ask yoursfelf why, you try it differently, you ask for help and in the end you succeed.

    Originally posted by Requiamer

    They have a huge help "book" (use esc key then help button if i'm not mistaken) containing many aspects of the game i just looked at it quickly because i don't need it that much, but it seamed very complete.

     

    But ye they can probably make a noob proof tutorail for those that pretty much play games for the first time or almost, it's not that needed though and can probably wait post launch.

    Hey guys, I couldn't agree more, its definately something I enjoy about the genre being able to explore and find advice for myself. I am purely thinking about people that are so completley new to the genre and are coming at this as an almost first time gamer or certainly a first time in the genre. I'm basing this purely on my experience with my partner who struggled more than I expected as she isn't too bad at most games. I just feel that people with this level of experience are very unlikely to find their way onto websites like this or the GW2 wiki and databases.

    I also agree with many of the points about fan made video's being the best source of advise and youtube is definately the beginner gamers friend. hoping to start my own video's and achieve a standard similar to Enigmius

  • Kyus_HoBKyus_HoB LondonPosts: 185Member
    Originally posted by CrunkJuice2
    [mod edit]

     

    Wow I don't think I've ever had to say this before but you are coming across as a rather nasty piece of work with posting like this. 

    I think you will find that if you read my post properly as one whole statement instead of looking for something to complain about that you will realise that I am drawing attention to an optional tutorial that would fit in with the games current difficulty setting. This would allow for non regular gamers to adapt faster and ultimately more comfortably without having to dumb down the game. 

    My only comparison to Word of Warcraft which I haven't played for any length of time since the end of the Burning Crusade, was to illustrate that a standard tutorial (such as guild wars 2 currently has) lets players with no experience slide into a game like WoW because it is so simple. 

    A game like Guild Wars 2 however is more challenging and therefore requires a more robust tutorial available for people who would like to enjoy a game but have not previously played or experienced the genre as much.

    Now if you'd care to keep posting in this thread I'd suggest you do so in a manner that is a bit more in keeping with being a descent friendly human being and someone that wants to be part of a good community.

«13
Sign In or Register to comment.