I sort of wish you would have included an option where raiding didn't have a tiered loot structure. Simply because I've always been curious what percentage of people who raid would do it if they didn't have that particular carrot dangled in front of them.
I know I would, and I have friends who would, but I have no real idea what the general viewpoint would be on that.
Come to think of it though, I voted no to this poll...so maybe my question needs a seperate poll outside of a "raiding only" environment.
i think that most people that play mmo's still want some sort of world, or at least the illusion they are in a world. a fps style lobby system, where you just clicked 'join next raid' or invited friends to a group, wouldnt be popular imho. as bad as some may think WoW has become in terms of being a 'lobby' at endgame, you could at least run around the world aimlessly if you so chose.
and ill ask this hee, as i dont think it needs its own thread:
RAIDS - do you hate the idea of the raid itself, or hate the geargrind and treadmill aspect?
so many people here the word raid and have this pavlovian hate response.
i personally really enjoy large scale group pve content, but the gear grind is what eventually wears me out.
edit: i aslo think of SWTOR, where many people complained that gear came too easy, you would have near full sets or geaqr after a mere couple of weeks, leaving 'no reason' to continue to do it.
Voted no; the only content I enjoy in MMORPGs is the non-loot character progression/leveling. Playing the game and earning new skills or abilities and new ways to spec a character is the fun part of character progression for me. Once the ability to progress in that way is gone I usually stop playing unless the community is good enough to keep the game fun in a social aspect.
I would but then I never raided for the loot. I just enojyed good raid content and I don't mind doing the same instance a number of times. (Heck did Elesses(sp?), deadmines, Mara, Schoolo, BRS lower, etc.. atleast 30 times each.)
I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.
Not particularly interested in a game that was only about raiding. To be fair I don't care about story in most MMOs either because I can't stand reading dumb generic quest monologue texts. The only two games MMOs I've cared about story in were LotRO and SWTOR because they actually manage to present story at a meaningful degree.
Idk why they dont put low level raids tbh. It makes it so bait and switchy to me. At least fiesta online had the decency to have raids starting level 10. Id like raiding more if its not jst tacked on at the end.
''/\/\'' Posted using Iphone bunni ( o.o) (")(") **This bunny was cloned from bunnies belonging to Gobla and is part of the Quizzical Fanclub and the The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club**
There's got to be more to a game than just raiding. Raiding is the MMO definition of insanity. Doing the same thing over and over expecting different drops.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
Originally posted by DJJazzy You are missing just the plain old No option
LOL I had to spice it up a little! It's basically Yes, Maybe, No, and WTF is the point of this stupid thread!
On the whole, some pretty good answers and about what I expected in this totally non scientific poll. I also think it's kind of lame to change up a game at level cap, and story ending to make it a wholly different experience and then keep repeating the new experience over and over again.
I think putting raids into a game at earlier levels is a great idea. Especially if the main point to anyone raiding is to get gear and progress their character. If a game has plenty to do within the game itself and doesn't penalize you for being level cap (as in not being able to go into lower level areas without being so overpowered there's no point), then integrating raids into the game itself rather than having it as "endgame" would be a good thing IMO.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
Part of the e-peenery is getting a character up to entry-level capability, the passing the barriers to entry (tiered up) and the various gear checks.
OP's describing a game with even less content. Developers are providing that to us, whether or not we ask for it, so :shrug: just wait a bit, it should be along shortly.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I think raiding is great for people who like it, but I don't think raiding by itself is great. Raiding is the end of a three stage progression system. Leveling to Dungeons to Raids. Without the Leveling and Dungeons to compare the Raids to, they don't have the necessary impact.
There is also the link between the MMORPG world and raids where the raiders have to do things out in the world to prepare for the raids, even if that preparation is just farming gold to pay for repairs and potions. Seeing the 'world' gives the raid context. It makes the raid important, not just challenging.
This is all from the point of view of someone who doesn't raid, so it could be gibberish.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
That's an interesting idea. If a developer spent all of their energy just on class design, PVE balance and a pipeline of strong end game raids, they could definitely be a player in the market. I personally wouldn't pay to play it, but they could conceivably attract the hardcore raiders and elitists. Whether that's a big enough crowd to try and capture is another question.
Originally posted by FrodoFragins That's an interesting idea. If a developer spent all of their energy just on class design, PVE balance and a pipeline of strong end game raids, they could definitely be a player in the market. I personally wouldn't pay to play it, but they could conceivably attract the hardcore raiders and elitists. Whether that's a big enough crowd to try and capture is another question.
I doubt it. Part of being an elitist is the fun or flaunting it infront of 'lesser' players. If everybody is doing it then nobody is special. Feeling 'better' and 'special' is what drives those types
For that you need a big enough gap between the haves and the haves not. Like an arbitrary levelling/progression system
Originally posted by Castillle Idk why they dont put low level raids tbh. It makes it so bait and switchy to me. At least fiesta online had the decency to have raids starting level 10. Id like raiding more if its not jst tacked on at the end.
While GW2 doesn't have traditional raids, they would have the equivalent of open world raids (meta events), and IIRC the first ones started at level 15 or so. Also there are the player created ones, like the 40 level 1 raids on hogger in WoW..
I despise raiding. I don't like the idea or execution of it.
When I hit level cap, my character's journey is done.
So, a game with only raiding? No thanks.
Same here. I wish they would make that journey longer. To me, "end game" means the part where the credits start rolling.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
seriousl? 40 people with no idea what they do (since they just started their char and went into raiding) and that for about 20 levels? no thanks.
Back in the day, we actually helped people who were new, but inexperienced. Granted, we didn't do much of that while trying to catch the top guild on the server..heh.
But if Wrath taught the world anything, it was that raiding is really not (never was) some magical set of skills that can't be learned by the average PuGer. Considering how many (formerly complete newbs, raised in PuGs) were working on finishing the hardmodes by the end of the expansion. A year seems to be about sufficient to teach the "don't stand in bad shit" skills necessary from a standing start, to people who are inclined to learn them anyway.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Raiding was fun for a little while in WoW when it was a new experience for me. I've already played that game. I know how it works. Now I want to play other games.
Raiding gear progression games are all the same game to me. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with raiding, but once was enough.
Comments
I sort of wish you would have included an option where raiding didn't have a tiered loot structure. Simply because I've always been curious what percentage of people who raid would do it if they didn't have that particular carrot dangled in front of them.
I know I would, and I have friends who would, but I have no real idea what the general viewpoint would be on that.
Come to think of it though, I voted no to this poll...so maybe my question needs a seperate poll outside of a "raiding only" environment.
i think that most people that play mmo's still want some sort of world, or at least the illusion they are in a world. a fps style lobby system, where you just clicked 'join next raid' or invited friends to a group, wouldnt be popular imho. as bad as some may think WoW has become in terms of being a 'lobby' at endgame, you could at least run around the world aimlessly if you so chose.
and ill ask this hee, as i dont think it needs its own thread:
RAIDS - do you hate the idea of the raid itself, or hate the geargrind and treadmill aspect?
so many people here the word raid and have this pavlovian hate response.
i personally really enjoy large scale group pve content, but the gear grind is what eventually wears me out.
edit: i aslo think of SWTOR, where many people complained that gear came too easy, you would have near full sets or geaqr after a mere couple of weeks, leaving 'no reason' to continue to do it.
Voted no; the only content I enjoy in MMORPGs is the non-loot character progression/leveling. Playing the game and earning new skills or abilities and new ways to spec a character is the fun part of character progression for me. Once the ability to progress in that way is gone I usually stop playing unless the community is good enough to keep the game fun in a social aspect.
I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.
''/\/\'' Posted using Iphone bunni
( o.o)
(")(")
**This bunny was cloned from bunnies belonging to Gobla and is part of the Quizzical Fanclub and the The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club**
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
LOL I had to spice it up a little! It's basically Yes, Maybe, No, and WTF is the point of this stupid thread!
On the whole, some pretty good answers and about what I expected in this totally non scientific poll. I also think it's kind of lame to change up a game at level cap, and story ending to make it a wholly different experience and then keep repeating the new experience over and over again.
I think putting raids into a game at earlier levels is a great idea. Especially if the main point to anyone raiding is to get gear and progress their character. If a game has plenty to do within the game itself and doesn't penalize you for being level cap (as in not being able to go into lower level areas without being so overpowered there's no point), then integrating raids into the game itself rather than having it as "endgame" would be a good thing IMO.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!
Part of the e-peenery is getting a character up to entry-level capability, the passing the barriers to entry (tiered up) and the various gear checks.
OP's describing a game with even less content. Developers are providing that to us, whether or not we ask for it, so :shrug: just wait a bit, it should be along shortly.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I think raiding is great for people who like it, but I don't think raiding by itself is great. Raiding is the end of a three stage progression system. Leveling to Dungeons to Raids. Without the Leveling and Dungeons to compare the Raids to, they don't have the necessary impact.
There is also the link between the MMORPG world and raids where the raiders have to do things out in the world to prepare for the raids, even if that preparation is just farming gold to pay for repairs and potions. Seeing the 'world' gives the raid context. It makes the raid important, not just challenging.
This is all from the point of view of someone who doesn't raid, so it could be gibberish.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I doubt it. Part of being an elitist is the fun or flaunting it infront of 'lesser' players. If everybody is doing it then nobody is special. Feeling 'better' and 'special' is what drives those types
For that you need a big enough gap between the haves and the haves not. Like an arbitrary levelling/progression system
I despise raiding. I don't like the idea or execution of it.
When I hit level cap, my character's journey is done.
So, a game with only raiding? No thanks.
While GW2 doesn't have traditional raids, they would have the equivalent of open world raids (meta events), and IIRC the first ones started at level 15 or so. Also there are the player created ones, like the 40 level 1 raids on hogger in WoW..
What can men do against such reckless hate?
Same here. I wish they would make that journey longer. To me, "end game" means the part where the credits start rolling.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
so... you wanna start with "easy" raids for everyone, so they can get to understand their chars? and that for what? 20 lvls?
seriousl? 40 people with no idea what they do (since they just started their char and went into raiding) and that for about 20 levels? no thanks.
the way to max lvl usualy is the way to understanding your character.
have you ever seen a "bought character" playing in a max lvl raid? i have, and i dont wanna see that again ^^
"believe me, mike.. i calculated the odds of this working against the odds that i was doing something incredibly stupid and i did it anyway!"
Back in the day, we actually helped people who were new, but inexperienced. Granted, we didn't do much of that while trying to catch the top guild on the server..heh.
But if Wrath taught the world anything, it was that raiding is really not (never was) some magical set of skills that can't be learned by the average PuGer. Considering how many (formerly complete newbs, raised in PuGs) were working on finishing the hardmodes by the end of the expansion. A year seems to be about sufficient to teach the "don't stand in bad shit" skills necessary from a standing start, to people who are inclined to learn them anyway.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Raiding was fun for a little while in WoW when it was a new experience for me. I've already played that game. I know how it works. Now I want to play other games.
Raiding gear progression games are all the same game to me. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with raiding, but once was enough.
The issue about standard wow type raid is that it is pretty cut & dry boss fights.
I think something like DDO and DCUO's approach, with more a scripted adventure (even with some random variations) will help to make raids more fun.