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Guild Wars 2 particularly vulnerable to population changes?

GorillaGorilla Posts: 2,203Member Uncommon

Firstly, I am talking about gameplay, not business. 

I played the stress test a couple of nights ago that started 1:00 am in most of the EU (it was a work day too). As you might imagine it was not nearly as busy as previous tests/BW's. The experience was very different. I really missed not having many people around, events where tough and a lot slower for example. It was testament that Anet have largely succeeded in there vision of getting people paying together.

If I was Anet I would seriously think about having relatively high population caps vs server capacity and let overflow servers work there magic. Of course that might impact WvW queues or have other consequences.

their server technology obviously allows dynamically changing stuff but I wonder what they can do to maintain optimal populations? I guess the very best outcome is a slow steady rise in overall number of players!

(a side point, broadly speaking some events are pretty tough with 1 or 2 and somewhat trivial with 20+, I guess that can be tuned)

Comments

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,503Member Uncommon
    Guesting helps with this. If your server starts to get low, you can guest over to a higher population server.
  • GorillaGorilla Posts: 2,203Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Guesting helps with this. If your server starts to get low, you can guest over to a higher population server.

    You know, I had forgot about that mechanic. Of course this is only possible because of their server technology. But shows the thought they have put into things. I wonder if you can guest from EU to USA? GW 1 allowed you to choose.

    My hunch is that a rather large percentage of the population will want to WvW especially as time goes by. I guess you might end up with a situation where Sea of Sorrows is the "unofficial PVE server". Now there's a wacky thought!

  • mazutmazut SofiaPosts: 886Member Uncommon

    You can;t solo many of the events, but its extreamly fun to duo or run with 3-4-5 players. BWE expirience is facerolling, prepare for much tougher and challenging expirience ;)

    Also what the mate above me said - Guest to another World if nobody around.

  • STDBSTDB ViennaPosts: 81Member
    Sea of Sorrows is the "unofficial PVE server".

    Kinda offtopic, sorry, but how do people know this? Is there a list of these "unofficial" PVE/PVP servers?

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,503Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gorilla
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Guesting helps with this. If your server starts to get low, you can guest over to a higher population server.

    You know, I had forgot about that mechanic. Of course this is only possible because of their server technology. But shows the thought they have put into things. I wonder if you can guest from EU to USA? GW 1 allowed you to choose.

    My hunch is that a rather large percentage of the population will want to WvW especially as time goes by. I guess you might end up with a situation where Sea of Sorrows is the "unofficial PVE server". Now there's a wacky thought!

    Yeah, I was reading a thread about the implications of a major population drop a while back and they were talking about exactly what you described. Making some unoffical PvE servers. 

     

    They were also talking about how they might be able to organize better for zones like Orr that might actually require quite a few coordinated people to complete in an optimal way.

  • aviciavici DWG, PAPosts: 44Member
    Did i miss something about sea of sorrows? I was hoping to go there, and certainly intend on doing lots of pvp.

    image

  • FoahFoah StockholmPosts: 8Member

    http://www.gw2guilds.org/

     

    It's a pretty wellknown websites for many established guilds, and will give you a pointer of what some of the population on many servers will do. E.g. guilds of a certain nationality will roll on server X, you'll find it all there.

  • fiontarfiontar Dana, MAPosts: 3,719Member

    I'm a night owl and I've had just as much fun playing the game when there aren't many people around as I do when the zone I'm in is packed.

    Dynamic Events scale to the number of participants. Level Scaling scales people down to be able to play the game with lower level friends, (or just for the joy of playing content they enjoy). The game also has a Guesting feature, which allows people to join others for PvE play on another game server.

    This game is much, much better designed to adapt to changing population densities than any MMO I've ever played.

    So, no, the game is not particularly vulnerable to population changes. Just the opposite.

    Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
    image

  • eye_meye_m Notta Chance, ABPosts: 3,133Member Uncommon

    I have found that some DE's can be really difficult solo, and it was much slower.  I'm not really sure how much this will actually factor into things however. In any of the mmo's that I've played at launch, I keep expecting to go back and see the starting zones empty but they never are.  And DE's are not required to complete, so if you decide to pass on one it doesnt matter. With levelscaling, people from higher levels can come back and still enjoy the content, so a person really doesn't outlevel an area.   

    With all these points, I don't think it will be as vulnerable as you might guess.

    All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

    I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.

    I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.

  • JagaridJagarid West Covina, CAPosts: 415Member
    Originally posted by Gorilla
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Guesting helps with this. If your server starts to get low, you can guest over to a higher population server.

    You know, I had forgot about that mechanic. Of course this is only possible because of their server technology. But shows the thought they have put into things. I wonder if you can guest from EU to USA? GW 1 allowed you to choose.

    My hunch is that a rather large percentage of the population will want to WvW especially as time goes by. I guess you might end up with a situation where Sea of Sorrows is the "unofficial PVE server". Now there's a wacky thought!

     

    I seem to recall a developer post specifically talking about guesting that indicated you could guest from EU to USA, or vice versa.    But I can't find it now.   Unfortunately, I'm getting old as well, so my memory is sometimes a bit flawed.  I can say, for sure, with 100% certainty that I did see a developer directly address this question.   What I might be getting scrambled is in thinking they said you could...it's possible they said the exact opposite.

    Does anyone else remember having seen what I'm talking about?  I swear, It is out there.

    Edit: I'm taking the time to try to find the original source of what I saw.   So far, I have found this thread over at guru.   No developer response or link there, but it says what I thought I remember, which means it is just a matter of finding the developer source.  I will keep looking.

    Edit 2: I found this link over in reddit with someone who actually did do it during early BWE before they disabled it.

    Giving up on finding the web page where I saw a developer specifically talk about this, but based on what I'm seeing in other forums and on reddit, I am confident I am remembering it correctly.

  • jondifooljondifool cphPosts: 1,114Member

    It puts thesse worries in perpective that there is also players talking about GW2 be a game that benefit from population drops, because immersion will be so much better, when the Zerg is gone and the story in the events really can unfold.

     

    read how to create a succesfull mmo before posting about GW2. And read tao of ArenaNet before talking about innovation in GW2

  • -Inferno--Inferno- Staff Writer DresdenPosts: 361Member
    Originally posted by Foah

    http://www.gw2guilds.org/

     

    It's a pretty wellknown websites for many established guilds, and will give you a pointer of what some of the population on many servers will do. E.g. guilds of a certain nationality will roll on server X, you'll find it all there.

    Now that's a nice website. I guess my server of choice will be "Riverside" - it's a German server with a good number of guilds already listed as playing there on release. I hope Anet completes all the localization before launch... there were still a lot of things untranslated during last stress test.

    "Fire is never a gentle master..."

  • EzhaeEzhae LondonPosts: 737Member
    Originally posted by Gorilla

    If I was Anet I would seriously think about having relatively high population caps vs server capacity and let overflow servers work there magic. Of course that might impact WvW queues or have other consequences.

     

    You know thats exactly what they have done? First beta weekends had tons of servers, nearly 50. But for BWE3 they cut the numbers and instead increased the population caps on them, better utilizing the hardware and lowering the number of low pop ones. 

  • sinloisinloi dunedin, FLPosts: 198Member Uncommon
    umm he didnt say sea of sorrows was the unofficial pve server he said he could see something like that happening.
  • MangaMaidenMangaMaiden BirminghamPosts: 180Member
    Originally posted by Foah

    http://www.gw2guilds.org/

     

    It's a pretty wellknown websites for many established guilds, and will give you a pointer of what some of the population on many servers will do. E.g. guilds of a certain nationality will roll on server X, you'll find it all there.

     Thankyou so much for this link!!!! Been wondering where the UK guilds were going. X3

    So possibly Desolation or Gandara if those servers are still up :) (Think there were a less servers in  the last BW).

    Sorry for going slightly off topic btw XD

    image

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,065Member Uncommon

    I was there last friday night too, during the nightly european stresstest.

     

    The low populated starter zones gave a very different feeling, no more zerging, but actually thinking how to handle the problems, some DE´s played totally different with little people around, they obviously dont scale linear, which makes me thinking some events have a minimal player requirement to succeed.  While others can be done with a single person and smart thinking.

     

    Actually the lower number of players made people want to group and talk to eachother.

     

    And best of all, no queue for WvWvW ;)

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • VannorVannor YorkshirePosts: 2,970Member Uncommon
    Dunno about anyone else but I hope the population dies down a abit actually. 'Massive' zergs are not something I consider a good thing, especially in PvE. I like it when there's about 8-15 people.. but when there's about 30 or more wailing on one mob it's just stupid.
  • Eir_SEir_S Argyle, NYPosts: 4,623Member
    I logged on when other people were having a lot of login issues, so there was hardly anyone around, and you know what?  Personally, I enjoyed it as much or more than 50 people spamming a veteran mob into atoms in seconds, spamming every skill they have.  It was more challenging and therefore rewarding (on a personal level, the same game rewards apply).  Some events are more fun in a "zerg", but I like the idea of some areas being less populated.  It might mean other players are doing higher or lower level content than I am, and that the game is finally evening out in terms of zone population.  It's all good.
  • GorillaGorilla Posts: 2,203Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by STDB
    Sea of Sorrows is the "unofficial PVE server".

    Kinda offtopic, sorry, but how do people know this? Is there a list of these "unofficial" PVE/PVP servers?

    I was just speculating what might happen if ( for example) populations largely shifted to WvW, people could designate servers to hook up on. Hasen't happened yet, hopefully will not.

  • GorillaGorilla Posts: 2,203Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vannor
    Dunno about anyone else but I hope the population dies down a abit actually. 'Massive' zergs are not something I consider a good thing, especially in PvE. I like it when there's about 8-15 people.. but when there's about 30 or more wailing on one mob it's just stupid.

    Yes there is definitely a sweet spot. Actually it works well from 3-4 upwards. As for upper limit I guess it depends on the event, some of them seem to get a bit zergy round 15 or maybe 20 people.

  • JagaridJagarid West Covina, CAPosts: 415Member
    Originally posted by Gorilla
    Originally posted by Vannor
    Dunno about anyone else but I hope the population dies down a abit actually. 'Massive' zergs are not something I consider a good thing, especially in PvE. I like it when there's about 8-15 people.. but when there's about 30 or more wailing on one mob it's just stupid.

    Yes there is definitely a sweet spot. Actually it works well from 3-4 upwards. As for upper limit I guess it depends on the event, some of them seem to get a bit zergy round 15 or maybe 20 people.

    I have to agree with this 110%.  This is one of the reasons I am not too worried about the fact that I have not yet settled on which class I want to play first.  I will do a little alt-hopping for the first week before I settle on one (leaning toward Sylvari guardian but I'm not quite sure yet).

    By the time I get settled, the main mass of people should have moved past where I will be.   And I do not see that as a bad thing.  As someone who normally does a lot of end game raiding, I am pleasantly suprised with how happy it makes me to be going into a game where I won't be "in a rush" to get my first character to the level cap.

  • AmegashieAmegashie naPosts: 282Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by -Inferno-
    Originally posted by Foah

    http://www.gw2guilds.org/

     

    It's a pretty wellknown websites for many established guilds, and will give you a pointer of what some of the population on many servers will do. E.g. guilds of a certain nationality will roll on server X, you'll find it all there.

    Now that's a nice website. I guess my server of choice will be "Riverside" - it's a German server with a good number of guilds already listed as playing there on release. I hope Anet completes all the localization before launch... there were still a lot of things untranslated during last stress test.

     

    I don't think that site is very reliable when it comes to non English speaking communities. Last I heard, Riverside will be the unofficial German RP server and most of the "pro" guilds will go to Elona's Reach.

  • GorillaGorilla Posts: 2,203Member Uncommon

    I'm determined to try to pace myself a bit too, no reason to rush if the metre isn't running (no sub). 

    Really the issue is dealing with some stuff solo, sure the zergs are perhaps not the finest experience but some things are very challenging solo. 

    As a previous poster said its good to be challenged and I agree, a couple of things verged on frustratingly difficult. Maybe that's not a bad thing!

  • GorillaGorilla Posts: 2,203Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by eyelolled

    I have found that some DE's can be really difficult solo, and it was much slower.  I'm not really sure how much this will actually factor into things however. In any of the mmo's that I've played at launch, I keep expecting to go back and see the starting zones empty but they never are.  And DE's are not required to complete, so if you decide to pass on one it doesnt matter. With levelscaling, people from higher levels can come back and still enjoy the content, so a person really doesn't outlevel an area.   

    With all these points, I don't think it will be as vulnerable as you might guess.

    That's another good point a DE level scaled down is likely to be less challenging than 'on level'.

    i rmember  on an early BW finding a fort with a couple of things to do, rescue a couple of little guys (skinks I think) and kill a champ. Tried pulling the champ to somewhere I had a chance of killing him, wasn't to be, not with his escorts. I Then spent time on the first problem kinda got close. Long story short despite failing had fun and look forward to returning one day.

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