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Originally posted by verenov Originally posted by Thillian Originally posted by ellobo29
Let's compare this model with Lotro F2P
Lotro = quests available only up to level 20, all quests above that (90% of content) has to be bought via quest packs. However, in Lotro you do Deed Grinds which yield Turbine Points. TP points are the currency used to purchase the buyable content in the game. I did enough deeds to unlock Lone Lands (before Turbine included it in the base F2P, 2 Skirmishes (which allow you to get to max level, although LOTS of endless grinding), Trollshaws. Oh, and btw, you can reach level 30+ without buying ANYTHING. Remember you can also buy retail box of LotRO expansions from, say, Amazon at discounted prices and unlock classes, content, etc... without paying Turbine. It's still buying, I know, but it's an alternative. My point is that the F2P model has restrictions, but you *can* grind your way through the game with what you start with...it just takes a LOT of grind/play/time. But, Turbine runs specials/sales all the time with 50%-75% off these, so earn Turbine Points, accumulate a LOT, wait for a sale, and voila you have more content for free.
To my mind the Turbine cash shop has a lot of merit in that it allows you to get past most of the annoying encumbrances placed on F2P play without necessary spending a fortune. However, while it is nice that you can earn some turbine points in game through deed grinding, you end up having to spend a bunch of them on traits etc to avoiding overly gimping your character. What they give on one hand they take with the other - a point that is conveniently forgotten by most who sing the praises of this scheme. Not to mention how exceeding boring grinding every last TP out of an area would be...
If you approach the game (LOTRO) from the perspective that you get a limited free trial, then get an option of a la carte or rent to play the game properly, then it is in this context that the Turbine scheme really shines, and more Fremium games could learn a lot from that.
Shame Turbine has stat tomes and best gear for low levels in the turbine store now.
Originally posted by Psychow Sometimes I think these guys that create the F2P matrix think that: Entice 1,000 players to sub (1,000 x $15 = $15,000 mo) is better than Entice 200,000 to spend $20 on various account unlocks/items (200,000 x $20 = $4 million) If they make a worthwile F2P model and reasonably priced items/unlocks, they can make quite a bit. But if they chase everyone away...they make little/nothing.
whatif they allowed you to purchase item quality unlocks?
$5 to unlock blues
$5 to unlock next quality level...etc.
I'd bet everyone who decided to play would pay for that unlock. Same with bag/bank slot unlocks. All those little unlocks add up and would provide much more revenue than the small number of people who will try and then sub to the game.
Originally posted by Psychow whatif they allowed you to purchase item quality unlocks? $5 to unlock blues $5 to unlock next quality level...etc. I'd bet everyone who decided to play would pay for that unlock. Same with bag/bank slot unlocks. All those little unlocks add up and would provide much more revenue than the small number of people who will try and then sub to the game. Oh well...
That won't work though.
Using your theory, I could drop my $15 subscriptions on all 4 accounts and just pay roughly $30, be fully unlocked and play the game for the rest of it's natural life for free.
Why would anyone bother to sub?
How would SOE get money other than random fluff purchases int he store? They won't keep the game alive.
A new player, can roll a toon and play for free from level 1 to level 55 (the current cap) without hindrance, just because they can't access better quality gear it is not stopping them from playing the whole game for free.
The annoyed posts are coming from old players who abandoned the game, coming back and not being able to wear their gear that they worked for back in the day...if they had of read the forums before screaming bloody murder, they would of realised this is a bug and will be fixed before the 14th release.
For ANY other new player, they have no reason to whinge, they have access to a multi million dollar MMORPG and one of the better ones in terms of depth and a sandboxy feel, if after playing to level 55 you feel you want to unrestrict your character a bit more you can unlock things or purchase a sub for $15.
People are getting their panties in a knot over the announcement of F2P yet Vanguard will never be the F2P they expect, it's not a successful Asian truly free F2P model, it's an Eastern F2P model that is restricted, they are all in some way or another and this way has proven to work for SOE in EQ 2 and bring in quite a few dollars.
New players just sound like greedy free loading scabs when they post about it not being "free enough", Veterans and returning players actually had an argument about gear already earned.
While I agree the restrictions could be lightened there is nothing stopping you playing the game and enjoying it the way it is now.
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As dumb and counter productive as this "F2P" matrix is, the real slap in the face is the game itself.
So many bugs and errors, crashes and minute long lag spikes.
Exploring is impossible since you get pushed back to the last rez stone you visited once you crash, and you WILL crash.
The Necromancer's pet is a whole other chapter, I literaly had to dismiss then summon, at almost every doorstep.
This game is in dire need of some developer love and a realistic F2P matrix.
It feels like there is a good game in there, but Sony and all the bugs does it's best to kick you out... go figure.
The only issue I have with the F2P matrix is the gear cap- in a gear-based game this can't exist if you want players to stay after they reach the level cap. The other things, such as extra bank/bag space and housing fit to me as premium services. As it is with the current matrix I believe the game will be very playable without spending any money so long as you're only interested in adventuring and don't mind abandoning your toons once you hit the level cap.
I personally hope the current matrix proves to be a disastrous failure and $OE only loses subs from it. I think they would have far more success losing the F2P matrix, adding only convenience and cosmetic items (pots, pets, mounts, etc.) in the cash shop and just charging $5/mo in subscription would be much more profitable.
Originally posted by Kilsin While I agree the restrictions could be lightened there is nothing stopping you playing the game and enjoying it the way it is now.
Nothing except the:
Originally posted by kulhat many bugs and errors, crashes and minute long lag spikes.
Originally posted by pierth The only issue I have with the F2P matrix is the gear cap- in a gear-based game this can't exist if you want players to stay after they reach the level cap. The other things, such as extra bank/bag space and housing fit to me as premium services. As it is with the current matrix I believe the game will be very playable without spending any money so long as you're only interested in adventuring and don't mind abandoning your toons once you hit the level cap. I personally hope the current matrix proves to be a disastrous failure and $OE only loses subs from it. I think they would have far more success losing the F2P matrix, adding only convenience and cosmetic items (pots, pets, mounts, etc.) in the cash shop and just charging $5/mo in subscription would be much more profitable.
To me, the biggest problem is that there are some quest rewards that you can't use. Not level cap quest rewards either, but normal progressing through the 1-55 content quests that the rewards require a gold membership.
Originally posted by Letsinod So much mis-information here. You can wear blue items that are up to level 30. Some people are even saying that you can just equip them and it work fines even above that. You can unlock all the gear you would need up to level 50 or so with just $20 through the store. The biggest issue though is that people don't realize that VG isn't that gearcentric. Tonight there was quite the number of people playing (over 60 just in human starting area). We ran groups for dungeons for levels 10-15 stuff and had a blast. You can technically play the game to cap for 100% free and can be just fine for minimal money. Try it and see before complaining...
$20 to unlock all the gear? It'd be much better to pay the $15 sub and unlock everything, create all the classes/races you want etc. and play for a month to actually see if you'd enjoy it.
1 month's time is a lot of time
Originally posted by ellobo29 Enjoyed the game for the potentcial fun that could be had. Im not saying i had fun... but i could see myself having fun in this game if i subscribed but it had too many problems for me to actually spend money. I dont want to subscribe to ANY game this late in its development........what i want is a Quality F2P that i can occasionaly spend a dollar or 5 once in a while for a cosmetic item. Thats not what you get here.....too many restrictions for me to call this F2P. 1. Cant use top tier gear that you find as f2p... seriously what up with dat? gold drops are for subscription users only, fook dat! I find an item off random mob, say to myself oooh thats nice. try to equip it and game says i got to pay to equip an item i already felt i worked for..... 2 Severe bank restrictions,,, your personal inventory is reduced.... i say to myself ok no big deal... i expected that..... Then i find a bank.....YOU CANT EVEN USE HALF THE AVALIABLE SLOTS WTF! you only get 25 slots for free? seriously thats basicly unplayable. So you really believe im only going to find 25 usefull items in game that im going to want to keep around? thats insaine. 3. More then hafl the races and jobs are locked until you pay.....some of this i expected but lock ranger? REALLY? ya ok, whatever FU. 4. Finally the straw that broke the camels back is..... cant own a home without subscription, or real pay. im kinda dissapointed by this one.....some might not care but i did. 5. Restriction on how much gold you can have......SERIOUSLY? Lets be clear.... no one thing on my list is keeping me from playing its the accumalation. Aion might not be a good game but at least its 100% free.... all purchaseable items are cosmetic...... which is why i keep playing.... and occasionaly spend money. So thats the bad how about the good. Grapics on this game are amasing,,,,,, the clipping range and view distance is awesome i feel like i can see miles away. And there is something about the textures i like. Big game= explorers paradise...... maps are huge.... maybe biggest ive ever seen and there are 3 of em. like someone said in chat.... "You will probably play this game to 55 twice and never see all this game has to offer." Many things to do in game makes for sandboxy feel. You can level via Crafting (which i hear is extremely deep and engaging), or level via Adventuring (bashing brains in with my axe), or via Diplomacy. (watched a tutorial seemed interesting). So thats it.... i actually like the game...but id have to buy a subscription to enjoy it fully. and im just not in a place in my life where i want to subscribe to any game really. (just lost a job heh). But in all seriousness if it was just one thing i didnt like....id just spend the cash to unlock it and continue to enjoy the game....but its too much.....too much restriction..... Its like i dont feel SOE wanted me to stay and at least POPULATE the game.....it feels like a big FU. Try out the game for yourself.... let me know do you feel the same way? I hope somebody from SOE is reading this someday. And if they are....I just want them to know i will be spending more in the in-game item shop in guild wars2 and aion then i will in your silly little game because those company's know how to show me they REALLY want my business......
Is your keyboard broken!
Originally posted by Zooce Originally posted by Kilsin While I agree the restrictions could be lightened there is nothing stopping you playing the game and enjoying it the way it is now.
Originally posted by kulhat many bugs and errors, crashes and minute long lag spikes.
Seriously, doesn't anyone read the forums or investigate this stuff before they post negative things?
I am so sick of repeating myself for lazy people.
This is not the full F2P, this is a test run, allowing SOE to fix any issues, bugs, glitches, server stability... BEFORE the OFFICIAL F2P launch, which has been advertised numerous times for the 14th of August!
4 more days of testing and bug fixing to enable them to release a solid F2P model.
Relax and give constructive feedback or uninstall the game and save us all the headaches of reading this "I want everything for free whinging"
Not saying you personally but jesus man...read up on the subject before posting about bugs.
It is not fully F2P yet. Players need to understand this and stop whinging.
SOE are reading the boards and listening to us, they have already made numerous chnges to favour the F2P crowd.
Originally posted by UnleadedRev When you all gonna learn: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS FREE TO PLAY
Tell that to LEAGUE OF LEGENDS
Originally posted by Vesavius Originally posted by ellobo29 i actually like the game...but id have to buy a subscription to enjoy it fully. and im just not in a place in my life where i want to subscribe to any game really. (just lost a job heh). Its like i dont feel SOE wanted me to stay and at least POPULATE the game.....it feels like a big FU.
FU to a non paying customer that has no intention of ever spening a dime on their service?
Who woulda thunk.
GOOD READING SKILLS THERE....i said i actually WOULD spend money on the game if i felt it wasnt so dumbed down and greedy, maybe you missed that part.... i encourage to read again?
Listen i dabble a little bit in sales.... Not much but enough to know that even when your product isnt the greatest, and your sales man is garbage, if you can show the product to enough people and get it out there for all to see.
YOU EVENTUALLY WILL FIND A GROUP OF PEOPLE THAT ARE WILLING TO SPEND MONEY ON YOU!
Thats right now the VANGUARD problem. And bad buzz about this F2P thingy will not get anyone to download and check it out for themselfs thats why i didnt totally bash the game.... read my positive points at bottom.
When you are playing an MMO solo or with a group of friends, even thou you may not like grouping with others per se. You still enjoy seeing other people around just playing out there lives..... or reading the all chat. If that wasnt the case you would be playing a console. My point is when 75% of your player base isnt spending money yet enjoying the game if your player base is big enough... the 25% that is spending money usually make up for the 75%
All SOE needs to do is change up there f2p a bit to get people in there........ and somebody somewhere will start spending money. It shows a lack of imagination, and desire if this is the only way to make money,
Some games just make money off of pets.... pets that buff you..... pets that act as a walking bank that follows you and you click on and it grants accese to your bank.......pets that auto loot for you.... and i havent even started talking about skins. October is comming up and lots of holloween skins sell that time of year.... see what im getting at.
Im not a troll and i dont iike any business not to thrive. There was a study done at a magizine company i used to work for...(not sure if it really applys but it feels like it does) When we put the 1.00$ price tag on the magizine nobody wanted to buy the magizine. So we took the 1.00$ price tag off, and when people asked how much was the magizine, we said its not free but you get to decide how much you spend on it, most people opted between 5.00-10.00$ per magizine, and then we made lots of profit...........I guess my point is when you make someone feel forced to spend money they feel less in the mood to spend the money.
Originally posted by evilastro Originally posted by Starpower Same here I don't really care about space,money, chunk or class/race restrictions. I understand a F2P scheme is suppose to bring money in, but the item restriction just means I can't play any of my toons unless I either downgrade their gear or pay a full subscription price of 15 bucks. That would have been OK if the game was worth 15 a month alongside other triple A titles.
Not entirely true. They have gear unlockers which cost about 50c per item, less if you buy them on sale. The items that are restricted are raid and high end group tier.
Not defending the subscription model though, it really is horrible. SoE don't seem to understand that people will spend a bucketload of cash on appearance items, mounts and convenience gear as long as they don't feel pressured into paying just to play on par with other players. I hope more adopt the Aion model and not SoEs.
Is that suppose to be better? Even for 4 characters I would have to pay more than a months subscription. Even with it unlocked forever that's just not a good deal for me. Not only do I play a lot more than 4 characters ( I pretty much play them all, or should I say played) I don't even want to think about the cost of unlocking every single slot.
As I've said before. I understand that nothing is free even in a F2P title. I just find this particular nickle and diming too much. I would gladly pay for ekstra bag space, dungeon/chunk, crafting, hell even to unlock progress past level 20. The gear thing is a tad rediculous.. just a tad.
That's not to mention the rediculous price of a gold membership which is the same as the subscription was before it became F2P. If people thought this game was worth 15 a month, then It would have had more people playing it. It shouldn't cost more than 10 bucks a month for a gold membership period.
Originally posted by Silius(Regarding grandfathering rules) All returning characters will have access to all of the items that they currently have on their character.
Definitely an improvement.
To be honest I don't get why everyone is so fed up to have to start a thread every where to bash on vanguard. If you listen to the developers and the q/a or even follow the forums. Multiple people have said "vanguard" is not a game for everyone. It caters to older generation public that is patient and is semi nostalgic for EQ1. The F2P model is just a way for SoE to milk more money for EQ next. Since the F2P announcement the Vanguard threads have been going nuts and getting tons of attention.
Yes 90% of the people might rage or complain but if you read this thread alone they have already succedded in gaining at least 10-50 customers that have paid. I myself am willing to also play if I knew people that were interested in this game but everyone seems to be waiting for the "next best thing" (GW2, neverwinter, etc) How many are going to succeed probably none. Every game has flaws and design errors that are not meant to please the public. Find something you enjoy and then enjoy it with your friends and that is the most fun you will get out of the game.
Now to adress the F2P Model.
Minus league of legends which is not an MMORPG it is more a MMORTS.
Every model has major restrictions.
I don't think I have played a F2P that does not require any money to complete end game content.
I have played to cap in AOC, DDO, LOTR, PWI, ALLODS, Runes of Magic. (Every one of those game were F2P but the end game is unbearable unless you paid or had a lot of time to grind daily to Turbine Points.)
ACTUAL F2P games that 99% of the population refuses to play because they are old, chibi, lack of contents, etc.
Ragnarok Online, Eden Eternal, even Tera.
Yes tera cost money to buy the game but as long as you play 10-20 hours a week the game is pretty much F2P. I only paid for Tera for 2 months until the release of Chronoscroll and now my accoutn is paid for till June of 2013 even though I am already done with the game. Even though these games that I just listed is complete F2P but if you are willing to pay money the reward you gain is huge vs people that are playing it F2P.
To OP and everyone that is not familar with SoE. They don't care if people plays Vanguard from day one when it was purchased so what makes you think they will now? Promise of more developers? Promise of more contents? Promise of "f2p"?
I am going to assume OP doesn't play much F2P game. Your point 2., 3., 4., 5. is in most other F2P games one way or the other.
I am enjoying this game. I bought it when it first came out and my computer could not handle it. Shelved it and the F2P announcement made me remember it.
I have no issue with the F2P setup that SOE made for this game. I do not expect to get entertainment for free, and will either buy things individually or just set up a subscription.
Waiting on: The Repopulation
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