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GW2 re-did half of the MMORPG.

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  • FelixMajorFelixMajor London, ONPosts: 576Member
    Originally posted by Jimmydean

    People will get bored

    It's inevitable, if people never got bored of doing the same things over and over, nothing would ever change, or would be very very slow to change.

     

    Boredom is a product of your self, not of outter experiences.

    Originally posted by Arskaaa
    "when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".

  • VannorVannor YorkshirePosts: 2,968Member Uncommon
    Even sex gets boring if you have it often enough. Everything gets boring, thinking you'll ever find something that doesn't is just unrealistic and naive.
  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by Vannor
    Even sex gets boring if you have it often enough. Everything gets boring, thinking you'll ever find something that doesn't is just unrealistic and naive.

    ha! very true though although variation and variety can keep things interesting for a very LONG time.

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • MosesZDMosesZD Kirkwood, MOPosts: 1,383Member
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by Vannor
    Even sex gets boring if you have it often enough. Everything gets boring, thinking you'll ever find something that doesn't is just unrealistic and naive.

    ha! very true though although variation and variety can keep things interesting for a very LONG time.

     

    Both.  

  • I don't agree with the OP's opinion that raids need to be added to GW2, and I'm very satisfied with what I've heard from Anet as far as "end game" in GW2.

    However, one thing I would like to see done in a future expansion is incorporate some sort of massive, non-instanced dungeon (similar in size to Darkness Falls) with dynamic content like hidden rooms, traps, puzzles to solve to open doors/chests, and random mob/boss spawns.  You help an NPC trapped in a cage and he gives you a key that opens a door triggering a new DE.  They could have passageways that get blocked off and others that you have to open up so the route through the dungeon isn't the same every time.

    I think something like that would be the next logical step in Anet's advancement of GW2.  They've opened up a world of possibilities with their dynamic event system.
  • otinanai123otinanai123 NowherePosts: 265Member
    Originally posted by seridan
    Originally posted by otinanai123
    Originally posted by seridan

    I think everyone is overestimating how many high levels will go back to lowbie zones. The only reason to go back is for map completion.

    And maybe to have fun? Why do you need some kind of "benefit" to do anything in a game?

    If only a 4%-5% of WoW population is raiding I wonder what the rest 95%+ is spending their time on.

    They will have as much fun as WoW level 80s have in the lowbie zones. Even at level 15 it was WAY too easy at the level ~5 areas. Most people want to be challenged.

  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,639Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Jimmydean

    So GW2 re-did half of the MMORPG. They changed the level experience from quest grinding, to dynamic event grinding.  But how much time did we really spend leveling? How much fun did you have during the leveling process of most games?

    Imagine this. Some people say raiders' are a small population of the playerbase. I say otherwise. Rather than getting rid of "endgame", I say the next truly successful MMORPG will re-do endgame. And I don't mean LFR either, that was more like groups in school you never wanted to be a part of but was forced to be. 

    So any input? Maybe GW2 could be the first to do it.  People will get bored of DEs eventually, then what? I won't claim to have the answers. A lot of people are tired of the current raid system, that doesn't mean they hate raids. 

    Maybe throw around some ideas of how end-game could be redone. 

     

    Then what?

    Achievements, PvP, WvW, dungeons, gathering/ crafting...

    Pretty much the same as I do in any MMO once I reach top level tbh. I don't see any difference in raiding and doing the hard mode dungeons here tbh... it just uses less people on a run so is a lot more accessable to the bulk of the player base.

    Sounds good to me.

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by otinanai123
     

    They will have as much fun as WoW level 80s have in the lowbie zones. Even at level 15 it was WAY too easy at the level ~5 areas. Most people want to be challenged.

    if you only played BWE3 they already adjusted difficulty  back to the previous beta weekeends which is much more challenging. GW2 is a TON harder than warcraft when it comes to PVE leveling even when playing in lower zones. Can't comment on dungeons since I haven't put enough time into GW2's yet but heard the multiple exploration modes are extremly challenging to the point the devs struggled to get through many parts of them.

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • InFlamestwoInFlamestwo HindPosts: 662Member
    I didn't notice when i leveled up in GW2 and i didn't care if i did. Best game ever!

    image

  • SaerainSaerain Barrington, RIPosts: 944Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Jimmydean

    But how much time did we really spend leveling? How much fun did you have during the leveling process of most games?

    All of it. I've never been to the maximum level in any MMO, and in most, even my favorites, I never even got half way there, because I have no urge to effectively complete the game and therefore I do not grind. I just play.

    Favorites: EVE, VG, LotRO | Playing: None | Anticipating: SC, ED, TD, EQN, CU
  • seridanseridan ThessalonikiPosts: 1,202Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by otinanai123
    Originally posted by seridan

    And maybe to have fun? Why do you need some kind of "benefit" to do anything in a game?

    If only a 4%-5% of WoW population is raiding I wonder what the rest 95%+ is spending their time on.

    They will have as much fun as WoW level 80s have in the lowbie zones. Even at level 15 it was WAY too easy at the level ~5 areas. Most people want to be challenged.

    Most people? If only a mere 5% is raiding in WoW, which is the "hardest" part in WoW, I can't believe that the vast majority want to be challenged. Also I was talking about the WoW population, if only a small percentage is raiding, and an even lower percentage is doing PVP then what is the rest of the population doing in WoW all these years? They are having fun doing dungeon runs, they are having fun chatting with others, you know socializing, which is important in MMO longevity. Can they do the same in GW2? Certainly they can, only to a very higher extent, since grouping and playing with lower level friends is much easier, and also rewarding. So the 95% of the WoW playerbase can do in GW2 what they do in WoW, arguably they can do even more, or at least be challenged while they do so.

    Try to reach the level 30 zone next time. Above level 30 the game actually reaches an upper limit, at level 30 you have elite and utility skills ready, after 30 most zones will be more challenging even for a level 80. Keep in mind that the areas bellow level 30 are doable by people without elite or lots of utility skills, they are bound to be a lot easier than higher zones. After all the slots are unlocked (at level 30) the game reaches the first cap. After 30 your experience is also normalized, meaning going from 30 to 31 requires the same amount of experience as going from 79 to 80, at levels lower than 30 you need progressively more and more experience to level up.

    Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums

  • jusomdudejusomdude Somewhere, KSPosts: 2,401Member

    You're still doing pretty much the same activities as every other MMO with quests. Cannot agree with that being considered chaning half the MMORPG.

    You accquire the quests differently but it's all gather x, kill x, etc.

  • otacuotacu BolzanoPosts: 547Member
    Originally posted by Jimmydean

    So GW2 re-did half of the MMORPG. They changed the level experience from quest grinding, to dynamic event grinding.  But how much time did we really spend leveling? How much fun did you have during the leveling process of most games?

    Imagine this. Some people say raiders' are a small population of the playerbase. I say otherwise. Rather than getting rid of "endgame", I say the next truly successful MMORPG will re-do endgame. And I don't mean LFR either, that was more like groups in school you never wanted to be a part of but was forced to be. 

    So any input? Maybe GW2 could be the first to do it.  People will get bored of DEs eventually, then what? I won't claim to have the answers. A lot of people are tired of the current raid system, that doesn't mean they hate raids. 

    Maybe throw around some ideas of how end-game could be redone. 

    First of all.

    Give me your definition of "End Game"

     

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by jusomdude

    You're still doing pretty much the same activities as every other MMO with quests. Cannot agree with that being considered chaning half the MMORPG.

    You accquire the quests differently but it's all gather x, kill x, etc.

    so basically your telling me this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6zBTOwuSh0  to you is no differn't than just doing this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Fp0r1dzQow

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • IstavaanIstavaan CorkPosts: 1,350Member
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by jusomdude

    You're still doing pretty much the same activities as every other MMO with quests. Cannot agree with that being considered chaning half the MMORPG.

    You accquire the quests differently but it's all gather x, kill x, etc.

    so basically your telling me this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6zBTOwuSh0  to you is no differn't than just doing this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Fp0r1dzQow

    The difference in pace is staggering, i don't think i could go back and play another mmo after playing guild wars 2.

  • seridanseridan ThessalonikiPosts: 1,202Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Istavaan
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by jusomdude

    You're still doing pretty much the same activities as every other MMO with quests. Cannot agree with that being considered chaning half the MMORPG.

    You accquire the quests differently but it's all gather x, kill x, etc.

    so basically your telling me this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6zBTOwuSh0  to you is no differn't than just doing this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Fp0r1dzQow

    The difference in pace is staggering, i don't think i could go back and play another mmo after playing guild wars 2.

    Indeed it is, there is also no dodging in Rift (:D). I stopped watching after the first few seconds, seeing that horrible Global Skill Cooldown again, visible even from a distance, the "feature" I hate the most in MMORPGs

    Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by seridan
    Originally posted by Istavaan
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by jusomdude

    You're still doing pretty much the same activities as every other MMO with quests. Cannot agree with that being considered chaning half the MMORPG.

    You accquire the quests differently but it's all gather x, kill x, etc.

    so basically your telling me this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6zBTOwuSh0  to you is no differn't than just doing this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Fp0r1dzQow

    The difference in pace is staggering, i don't think i could go back and play another mmo after playing guild wars 2.

    Indeed it is, there is also no dodging in Rift (:D). I stopped watching after the first few seconds, seeing that horrible Global Skill Cooldown again, visible even from a distance, the "feature" I hate the most in MMORPGs

    you also need to remember iron peak in rift is a high level 40+ zone.. the video I have shown for GW2 is in a level 1-15 zone

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • JagaridJagarid West Covina, CAPosts: 415Member
    Originally posted by jusomdude

    You're still doing pretty much the same activities as every other MMO with quests. Cannot agree with that being considered chaning half the MMORPG.

    You accquire the quests differently but it's all gather x, kill x, etc.

    The key difference is in presentation.  It might not seem like much to you, but anyone in a consumer oriented business can tell you that presentation is very, very important.  

    Your oversimplification can also be said when comparing WoW to EQ.  As a player you were still doing the same activities in either game....but look at how majorly different the success of those two games is.  WoW just made it a whole lot more accessible and prettier and it made all of the difference in the world.

  • IstavaanIstavaan CorkPosts: 1,350Member
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by seridan
    Originally posted by Istavaan
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by jusomdude

    You're still doing pretty much the same activities as every other MMO with quests. Cannot agree with that being considered chaning half the MMORPG.

    You accquire the quests differently but it's all gather x, kill x, etc.

    so basically your telling me this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6zBTOwuSh0  to you is no differn't than just doing this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Fp0r1dzQow

    The difference in pace is staggering, i don't think i could go back and play another mmo after playing guild wars 2.

    Indeed it is, there is also no dodging in Rift (:D). I stopped watching after the first few seconds, seeing that horrible Global Skill Cooldown again, visible even from a distance, the "feature" I hate the most in MMORPGs

    you also need to remember iron peak in rift is a high level 40+ zone.. the video I have shown for GW2 is in a level 1-15 zone

    Which makes the comparison all the more impressive.

  • jusomdudejusomdude Somewhere, KSPosts: 2,401Member
    Give it awhile and you'll be doing those things lone and they won't be nearly as fun.
  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by jusomdude
    Give it awhile and you'll be doing those things lone and they won't be nearly as fun.

    shows doing a DE basically alone.. they still are a ton of fun

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwmtVFoZAKA

     

    also how is it any differn't than say skyrim? people put hundreds upon hundreds of hours wandering around all alone doing quests. So even if you are alone as long as the content scales(as it does) and is fun people can enjoy it alone or in groups.

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • DistasteDistaste Lancaster, PAPosts: 667Member
    Originally posted by jusomdude

    You're still doing pretty much the same activities as every other MMO with quests. Cannot agree with that being considered chaning half the MMORPG.

    You accquire the quests differently but it's all gather x, kill x, etc.

    I wouldn't say it is 1/2 but it most certainly changes a large portion of the MMORPG.

    In previous games you need to pick up quests, do what the quests say, and return to turn those quests in. The quests force you to go place and pretty much drag you through the game. If your friend logs in he needs to have the same quest your on to be rewarded for helping and if he already did it he gets nothing. If your friend is higher level then he is basically doing all the work.

     

    In GW2 you just run around and do things as they pop up, there can be multiple ways to complete an event, you don't need to return to an NPC to complete it(unless it's a gather one!), and you don't even need to stay until the event finishes. The events don't force you to go places or drag you through the game, you can explore, craft, and do other events to level. If your friend gets on all you need to do is meet up in the world. The only thing required for you to play together is that you do events in the lower level players range. The higher level friend still gets rewarded so he is happy to help. The higher level is also down-leveled she he isn't doing all the work and making things trivial.

     

    Do you see the difference? One is very linear and restrictive, the other is non-linear and offers a lot of freedom. GW2 isn't changing what you do, it's changing how you do it. How you do it is almost always more important than what you do. Killing 20 stationary boars is boring(pun intended), killing 20 boars that are all charging at a settlement is a lot funner.

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by Distaste
    Originally posted by jusomdude

    You're still doing pretty much the same activities as every other MMO with quests. Cannot agree with that being considered chaning half the MMORPG.

    You accquire the quests differently but it's all gather x, kill x, etc.

    I wouldn't say it is 1/2 but it most certainly changes a large portion of the MMORPG.

    In previous games you need to pick up quests, do what the quests say, and return to turn those quests in. The quests force you to go place and pretty much drag you through the game. If your friend logs in he needs to have the same quest your on to be rewarded for helping and if he already did it he gets nothing. If your friend is higher level then he is basically doing all the work.

     

    In GW2 you just run around and do things as they pop up, there can be multiple ways to complete an event, you don't need to return to an NPC to complete it(unless it's a gather one!), and you don't even need to stay until the event finishes. The events don't force you to go places or drag you through the game, you can explore, craft, and do other events to level. If your friend gets on all you need to do is meet up in the world. The only thing required for you to play together is that you do events in the lower level players range. The higher level friend still gets rewarded so he is happy to help. The higher level is also down-leveled she he isn't doing all the work and making things trivial.

     

    Do you see the difference? One is very linear and restrictive, the other is non-linear and offers a lot of freedom. GW2 isn't changing what you do, it's changing how you do it. How you do it is almost always more important than what you do. Killing 20 stationary boars is boring(pun intended), killing 20 boars that are all charging at a settlement is a lot funner.

    I agree but most peoples only argument against this is well you will get bored with it eventually.. well no s*it anyone will get bored with anything after enough time the main thing with GW2 questing is how varied it is and if anet lives up to what they say they will always be added and changing DE's making repeat visit through zones even more varied and unique than they are now.

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • JagaridJagarid West Covina, CAPosts: 415Member
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by jusomdude
    Give it awhile and you'll be doing those things lone and they won't be nearly as fun.

    shows doing a DE basically alone.. they still are a ton of fun

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwmtVFoZAKA

     

    also how is it any differn't than say skyrim? people put hundreds upon hundreds of hours wandering around all alone doing quests. So even if you are alone as long as the content scales(as it does) and is fun people can enjoy it alone or in groups.

    This is so true, and something I just don't think some people are understanding.

    I'm pretty sure we ALL pay SP games as well as MMOs, do I don't get why it's so hard to follow.  Maybe because no other major MMO has had scaleable content to the level that GW2 has?

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,498Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by Distaste
    Originally posted by jusomdude

    You're still doing pretty much the same activities as every other MMO with quests. Cannot agree with that being considered chaning half the MMORPG.

    You accquire the quests differently but it's all gather x, kill x, etc.

    I wouldn't say it is 1/2 but it most certainly changes a large portion of the MMORPG.

    In previous games you need to pick up quests, do what the quests say, and return to turn those quests in. The quests force you to go place and pretty much drag you through the game. If your friend logs in he needs to have the same quest your on to be rewarded for helping and if he already did it he gets nothing. If your friend is higher level then he is basically doing all the work.

     

    In GW2 you just run around and do things as they pop up, there can be multiple ways to complete an event, you don't need to return to an NPC to complete it(unless it's a gather one!), and you don't even need to stay until the event finishes. The events don't force you to go places or drag you through the game, you can explore, craft, and do other events to level. If your friend gets on all you need to do is meet up in the world. The only thing required for you to play together is that you do events in the lower level players range. The higher level friend still gets rewarded so he is happy to help. The higher level is also down-leveled she he isn't doing all the work and making things trivial.

     

    Do you see the difference? One is very linear and restrictive, the other is non-linear and offers a lot of freedom. GW2 isn't changing what you do, it's changing how you do it. How you do it is almost always more important than what you do. Killing 20 stationary boars is boring(pun intended), killing 20 boars that are all charging at a settlement is a lot funner.

    I agree but most peoples only argument against this is well you will get bored with it eventually.. well no s*it anyone will get bored with anything after enough time the main thing with GW2 questing is how varied it is and if anet lives up to what they say they will always be added and changing DE's making repeat visit through zones even more varied and unique than they are now.

    I think the strangest part is that they act like doing the same raid over and over again doesn't get boring. Once you complete a raid once (they usually last from 3 - 6 hours), it gets boring. Repeating the same 3 - 6 hours of content over and over again isn't my idea of a design decision that takes away the boredom.

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